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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 4, 2016 13:48:18 GMT -5
So I sent Charles Boehm a private tweet a few weeks ago to see if he had heard any rumors on this..... At the time he immediately said no, then 3 days later he replied " rumor has legs...." Now the ECNL is making a bold move of its own. SoccerWire.com has learned that the ECNL is nearly ready to announce its expansion into the boys side of the game, a development that could effectively double the size of the league and cause further reverberations across an already in-flux U.S. youth soccer landscape. www.soccerwire.com/news/clubs/youth-boys/exclusive-ecnl-planning-to-expand-to-boys-youth-soccer-likely-by-fall-2017/
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Post by zizou on Apr 4, 2016 15:05:52 GMT -5
This will create some intrigue. And some interesting competition. Now if US Club Soccer integrates NPL with ECNL and has league structure with promotion/relegation there will be real problems for successful maintenance of current DA model.
An issue that caught my eye. The USSF criticizes pay to play but they help perpetuate the inability of clubs to recoupe investments in player development. So parents must pay. Someone has to pay. Administration for clubs, teams, and leagues is not free. Field rentals are not free. High quality coaching is not free. Referees are not free. Travel is not free. Hell, even most of the DAs are not free. They really don't even have that much of a reduced cost except for the MLS clubs. Our DDs ECNL team fee for a year is $950. DA cheaper than that at most places?
Parents do not feel like clubs should make money off of their kid if the parents are paying for the training and they are absolutely right. But the reason clubs have to charge parents is because USSF is in collusion with MLS to not allow youth clubs to make money on player development. Chicken meet egg.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 4, 2016 15:19:06 GMT -5
Is there anyone out their savvy enough to create a digital version of the new youth soccer pyramid, because it just gut even messier.....
u8-u12 academy u12 u13 u14 u16 u18 DA for boys u14 u15 u16 u17 u18 ECNL for girls
& assuming u12 u13 u14 u16 u18 DA for girls u14 u15 u16 u17 u18 ECNL for boys
Now for one side of the rotating pyramid throw in Classic 1 though 6 and Athena A - F. At top of that side put RPL and national league, but have -------s with arrows ----> to show that once these team reach u14 they will go ECNL and 2nd teams inherent slots.
Then on the other side, throw in NPL and super y, and any other extraneous leagues
Some where in the middle of the 3d diagram, put ODP in there and an arrow spiraling diagonally downward at a dramatic pace along with regional pool etc. In addition, throughout the entire 3d pyramid put orange specks to represent the national training centers that apparently are utilized more for girls than boys.
Finally place $s all over the pyramid because some kids will be paying through the roof and others won't pay a dime........
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Post by fan on Apr 4, 2016 20:43:13 GMT -5
Wouldn't it be interesting if ECNL becomes the savior of the USMNT 5-10 years down the road? Having existing ECNL clubs bring their top boys teams into the mix seems like a relatively easy process. Next year should be even more interesting than the craziness that this year's tryouts will bring.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 5, 2016 7:39:06 GMT -5
Between this and the championship hoops game last night, my mind is racing!
I can't believe that this ended up being true.
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Post by zizou on Apr 5, 2016 10:12:02 GMT -5
Does anyone know what USYSA is doing in relation to these changes to the youth soccer landscape? Are they waiting for the dust to settle so they can see where they can make the most effective impact? Do they feel comfortable with the options they are offering so will just stand pat?
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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 5, 2016 13:53:19 GMT -5
Here is the obvious big problem --- once all this goes down I don't see any future collaboration occurring between DA and ECNL -- maybe in a sense this is a good thing, competition vs a monopoly and puts the consumer (our kids) back in control (the optimist in me speaking). I think most of us want our kids to play at the club that is convenient for our families - and if that club offers the highest possible soccer for your child that's a huge plus! I'm getting the sense the DAs affiliated with MLS clubs are gearing/thinking professional development and the non-mls DAs are gearing more towards college (my guess only). Preparing for college is the smart route and MLS academies need to take academics seriously. And you can't deny the success of what ECNL has accomplished with women's soccer and college. Its pretty remarkable.
The goal of DA is for the elite player, but players peak at different ages etc. I can easily see players/families not making DA at u13 and then turning towards ECNL for boys and leaving their club and never looking back. Take the GA United Alliance clubs with no u16/u18s on the horizon if other clubs get ecnl for boys, I would see all these kids leaving the alliance clubs for boys ecnl to play at the perceived next highest level given state cup/rpl will become a location for 3rd teams…..Thats the disturbing reality, state cup past u14 will have be void of all its top players on both the boys and girls sides. If ecnl can offer attractable fees along with the high school carrot your looking at what could become the next big thing! Bigger than that galaxy 7
Hum, if ecnl really wanted to stick it to US soccer, they start boys next fall, and their clubs should all remain on the current school based age matrix……. Add some more clubs and you could have your own state cups, academy play etc from u8 and above.
You thought captain America vs iron man was interesting, you thought superman vs batman was a war ---- you ain’t see nothing yet its ECNL vs US Soccer, who comes out the winner……
I'm not sure what round we are in, but this is definitely a heavyweight bout!! and if DA wants to remain restrictive and elite with the 2 year age bands, ecnl for boys and girls will thrive..
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Post by paterfamilias on Apr 5, 2016 14:22:02 GMT -5
I think it is more properly thought of as US Youth (DA, RPL State Cup) versus US Club (ECNL, Super Y, NPL)
Both fall under the auspices of the US Soccer Federation. And the Federation is the one that set the age mandate so that is a non starter for not changing.
It is really a competition for your dollars so that Adults can be employed teaching children how to play. Sandlots may be a better option.....
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Post by zizou on Apr 5, 2016 14:40:16 GMT -5
I think it is more properly thought of as US Youth (DA, RPL State Cup) versus US Club (ECNL, Super Y, NPL) Both fall under the auspices of the US Soccer Federation. And the Federation is the one that set the age mandate so that is a non starter for not changing. It is really a competition for your dollars so that Adults can be employed teaching children how to play. Sandlots may be a better option..... USYSA has nothing to do with DA. DA is run directly by the Federation through clubs that are members of both USYSA and US Club Soccer. US Club does not run Super Y. Super Y is its own thing with its own ODP program. USYSA, US Club, etc do not have to follow the age mandate. They are following it at request of the Federation. USSF is not going to send out age mandate police to ensure people are organizing teams by birth year. But if you want to participate in USSF sanctioned events your team will need to meet age requirements of USSF.
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Post by paterfamilias on Apr 5, 2016 14:45:59 GMT -5
I humbly stand corrected
It still is not ECNL versus US Soccer though.
In the end it is a marketing ploy to separate more dollars from starry eyed parents
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Post by paterfamilias on Apr 5, 2016 14:52:25 GMT -5
and how many of the big organizations will opt out of the mandate, do you suppose?
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Post by soccergator on Apr 5, 2016 15:01:28 GMT -5
Its quality tactics by ECNL thats for sure. Was this part of the Panama papers?
Would be interesting to hear the GA united alliance clubs take on this. None are currently ECNL members (ignoring NASA/TOPHAT merger)
&
Like mentioned above I'm assuming AFU would be very excited about this, Concorde probably has a huge decision to make, and where does GSA stand...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 20:04:23 GMT -5
Is there anyone out their savvy enough to create a digital version of the new youth soccer pyramid, because it just gut even messier..... u8-u12 academy u12 u13 u14 u16 u18 DA for boys u14 u15 u16 u17 u18 ECNL for girls & assuming u12 u13 u14 u16 u18 DA for girls u14 u15 u16 u17 u18 ECNL for boys Now for one side of the rotating pyramid throw in Classic 1 though 6 and Athena A - F. At top of that side put RPL and national league, but have -------s with arrows ----> to show that once these team reach u14 they will go ECNL and 2nd teams inherent slots. Then on the other side, throw in NPL and super y, and any other extraneous leagues Some where in the middle of the 3d diagram, put ODP in there and an arrow spiraling diagonally downward at a dramatic pace along with regional pool etc. In addition, throughout the entire 3d pyramid put orange specks to represent the national training centers that apparently are utilized more for girls than boys. Finally place $s all over the pyramid because some kids will be paying through the roof and others won't pay a dime........ And will ECNL ultimately add their second teams to an ECNL dev league? I believe that the rule about not playing on both ECNL/DA and athena/classic teams passed at the last AGM. I bet that immediately leads to ECNL teams rostering a few more players (taking them out of A which will continue to get weaker and weaker...).
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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 6, 2016 7:57:05 GMT -5
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Post by alacrity174 on Apr 6, 2016 8:26:56 GMT -5
Here is the obvious big problem --- once all this goes down I don't see any future collaboration occurring between DA and ECNL -- maybe in a sense this is a good thing, competition vs a monopoly and puts the consumer (our kids) back in control (the optimist in me speaking). I think most of us want our kids to play at the club that is convenient for our families - and if that club offers the highest possible soccer for your child that's a huge plus! I'm getting the sense the DAs affiliated with MLS clubs are gearing/thinking professional development and the non-mls DAs are gearing more towards college (my guess only). Preparing for college is the smart route and MLS academies need to take academics seriously. And you can't deny the success of what ECNL has accomplished with women's soccer and college. Its pretty remarkable. The goal of DA is for the elite player, but players peak at different ages etc. I can easily see players/families not making DA at u13 and then turning towards ECNL for boys and leaving their club and never looking back. Take the GA United Alliance clubs with no u16/u18s on the horizon if other clubs get ecnl for boys, I would see all these kids leaving the alliance clubs for boys ecnl to play at the perceived next highest level given state cup/rpl will become a location for 3rd teams…..Thats the disturbing reality, state cup past u14 will have be void of all its top players on both the boys and girls sides. If ecnl can offer attractable fees along with the high school carrot your looking at what could become the next big thing! Bigger than that galaxy 7 Hum, if ecnl really wanted to stick it to US soccer, they start boys next fall, and their clubs should all remain on the current school based age matrix……. Add some more clubs and you could have your own state cups, academy play etc from u8 and above. You thought captain America vs iron man was interesting, you thought superman vs batman was a war ---- you ain’t see nothing yet its ECNL vs US Soccer, who comes out the winner…… I'm not sure what round we are in, but this is definitely a heavyweight bout!! and if DA wants to remain restrictive and elite with the 2 year age bands, ecnl for boys and girls will thrive.. Good analysis I think. My only comment is in my opinion the MLS DA clubs/teams should be concentrating on keeping their players out of college as this is exactly where the US loses out. By age 16-18 is where the countries that are major players in soccer world are doing serious development and when US players are at college these guys overseas are playing professionally. A La Messi, Deli Alli, Ronaldo,,,,,, etc. Let's really get the DA doing its job correctly at least at the MLS clubs so we can have top class players for the US league and for the USMNT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2016 9:42:45 GMT -5
Makes ya wonder why would the UFAs, NASAs, Laniers, & SSAs still want to continue to pay and support GA United with Atlanta United now in town. There best players will most likely be going to Atlanta United which is will be free to both the players and no expenses for the partipating clubs. Where Ga United will cost the participating clubs $$$$. Even some of the directors are stating their goals are to send their best to Atlanta United, if thats the case why continue with GA United?
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Post by infoguy on Apr 6, 2016 10:01:01 GMT -5
This has likely been said, or maybe I'm piecing it together differently: It makes sense now to have a boys ECNL league for the older boys, which may likely involve the GA United alliance clubs and for Concorde to consider joining, for boys only interested in playing college ball - and leave DA only to the MLS, Atlanta United for boys willing to forgo college.
That said, I would not consider RPL an eventual 3rd tier by any means - just talented boys who want also to play HS - and are serious about attending a college.
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Post by fan on Apr 6, 2016 10:33:24 GMT -5
The rule says it applies to league play during the seasonal year but doesn't apply to tournaments (and presumably doesn't apply to post-season). Unless it can be argued that State Cup is "league play", it looks like ECNL/DA players can play in State Cup.
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Post by SoccerMom on Apr 6, 2016 10:37:50 GMT -5
I think State Cup is fine it says: This rule does not prevent an ECNL or DA player from participating in a tournament; this rule only applies to league play.
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