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Post by soccerboysmom on May 17, 2017 8:44:26 GMT -5
Looking for advice on tryouts-My (rising) U13 boy is currently playing for a team that doesn't have a full roster, and of course with moving to 11 a side next year, it doesn't seem likely that we will have enough players for a team. My question is, if he wants to still play, what is the best plan for tryouts? Should he go to another club on the first night, or our current club first?
Also, we are having a hard time trying to decide which club would be the best choice as a back up. We have done some research last year, because our player was impacted by the age mandate and had to find a new team, but ended up not needing to pursue any of those. We live on the north side, and these are the clubs we are interested in finding out more about:
Roswell Santos
Georgia Rush
NASA-Tophat
We care most about being at a club where the focus is on development over winning (I know they all say that, but which ones actually practice it?), and where kids who are not headed to college don't always get the shaft. Would love or him to play for a coach that has high standards even for the lower level players, but more positive/inspiring than aggressive. Also, will most clubs tell you up front who the coach will be next season for a given age group? I understand that I cannot start contacting clubs until next week-is that correct?
I know there is a wealth of knowledgeable people here, I would love any advice you could give me! TIA!
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on May 17, 2017 8:56:53 GMT -5
If he's a lock to make his own team, then I'd sign up for his current club and then use the first couple of nites at alternate clubs. Make sure you speak with the coaches if possible at both your current and potential club so his spot is secure at his current club and you can gauge interest at the potential clubs. Also I believe the window is open to start talking to clubs now. Most decent clubs will let you know who the coaches are so you can ask around about them. Finally, I'd speak with the parents at the other clubs. Somewhere in there you will parse out the truth about how things are. I can't tell you specifically about the clubs you're interested in, I've heard Santos sometimes has the same issue with a lack of bodies to make teams and 'm only familiar with one of the clubs (Tophat) and that's on the girls side...
Good luck
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Post by rifle on May 17, 2017 16:28:58 GMT -5
If the team didn't have enough players last year, IMO there is no reason to waste a minute going back for tryouts.
Santos historically has lost players as they get older but I think they're slowly fixing the leak, with first teams playing CL1 (even knocking on the door of RPL spots) + 2nd teams, even 3rd in some ages. For a while they'd get to select ages with only one team and a big skill level disparity top to bottom.. and that situation is guaranteed to result in better players moving elsewhere in search of appropriate competition.. Awesome facilities.
Rush is similar to Santos. Fields are awful, but they have an indoor facility.
NASA has tons of teams, every skill level.
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Post by soccerboysmom on May 18, 2017 6:23:18 GMT -5
Thanks so much for all of the input. Interestingly, met the 2005s RSC coach by chance yesterday while my son was doing some practice on his own at the park. Got to ask a few questions-seems they have enough for 2 teams, and will probably make cuts depending on how many show up at tryouts.
Would still love to know how best to spread the time around tryout week. Should we go to several different clubs' tryouts? I hate they are all on the same nights, I know that is Ga Soccer rule. What if he only goes to 1, and doesn't make it, and our current club doesn't get enough players? What's the best way to increase his chances of making a team? Well, aside from working his bottom off between now and then, and showing well at tryouts!
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Post by ga3v3 on May 18, 2017 6:37:54 GMT -5
I've personally had experience with both Santos and Rush. Personally I like the DOC and development philosophy at GA Rush better and it has been very benificial for our family.
The fields at Rush are actually being completely reworked over the summer and yes they were in very bad shape this year. Santos Fields's are typically in very nice shape.
I'd suggest contacting the DOC at each club that you are considering and talk to them about player development, coaching philosophy etc This has always been the best way to guage the club and how your player will fit into the program in my past experiences
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Post by fanatic21 on May 18, 2017 8:13:12 GMT -5
I've personally had experience with both Santos and Rush. Personally I like the DOC and development philosophy at GA Rush better and it has been very benificial for our family. The fields at Rush are actually being completely reworked over the summer and yes they were in very bad shape this year. Santos Fields's are typically in very nice shape. I'd suggest contacting the DOC at each club that you are considering and talk to them about player development, coaching philosophy etc This has always been the best way to guage the club and how your player will fit into the program in my past experiences I saw Santos' and Rush's U12 Boys (rising 13s) at Academy Cup last weekend. Santos A team played in the top division, and their B team played in the 2nd group (they had 2 full 11v11 teams - so I wouldn't worry about #s). Rush's A team (not sure if they have a B team at U12 or not) played in the 2nd division and beat Santos B team pretty bad - think they went on to win the 2nd 11v11 division. Both top teams play pretty good soccer and look like they are pretty well coached - Santos is likely a bit more talented though. I checked on SIC and it looks like the top teams played each other in April and Santos won 3-0. The Rush club seems to have a pretty neat Club feel to it. I'm not sure if they still do this, but they used to have a game of the week (usually on a Saturday night) and would get lots of fans (players and parents from other teams, most of their coaches, etc.), play warm-up music, do international walkout, etc. Santos has beautiful facilities (turf fields and nice grass fields too). Of course Rush has the indoor facility which is pretty nice, but last time I was there their fields were in pretty rough shape. Both clubs seem to do a pretty good job of developing players. Unfortunately lots of them get recruited and leave for bigger clubs at the older ages. If you are choosing between those two clubs, I'd do some research on the coaches. Santos Coaches for 2017-2018 are posted on their website. Looks like Quniton Hart and Mark Logan will be rising U13 Boys coaches. I didn't see Rush coaching assignments on theirs. I think Janny Rivera coached the top U12 team this year. I've heard good things about him but have no personal experience.
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Post by soccerboysmom on May 18, 2017 9:39:58 GMT -5
ga3v3, thanks for sharing your personal experience.
fanatic21, wow, that's a ton of great insight! Coach Q is who we met last night, seemed like a nice guy. Coach Janny Rivera and Ben Tayi are listed as 2005 boy coaches at Rush, but neither has bio listed. I am planning to make calls today and tomorrow to see if I can get some more specific info from the clubs regarding development philosophy and various other questions. The hard part is sifting the information and popular talking points that all clubs like to say from what plays out in reality.
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Post by spectator on May 18, 2017 10:55:55 GMT -5
ga3v3, thanks for sharing your personal experience. fanatic21, wow, that's a ton of great insight! Coach Q is who we met last night, seemed like a nice guy. Coach Janny Rivera and Ben Tayi are listed as 2005 boy coaches at Rush, but neither has bio listed. I am planning to make calls today and tomorrow to see if I can get some more specific info from the clubs regarding development philosophy and various other questions. The hard part is sifting the information and popular talking points that all clubs like to say from what plays out in reality. There are some good coaches at Santos - Q is a good guy and makes soccer fun for the kids. Overall Santos has a very good program for younger ages and probably stronger on the boys side. Like rifle said, they tend to lose kids at older ages for various reasons but that's not a reflection on the level of coaching at younger ages. The city of Roswell Recreation Department is incredible - that's who runs the facilities and they are gorgeous - combination of turf and grass and very very well maintained. Pity they don't rent them out for local tournaments but that's a government thing. One other slight downside to the Santos soccer program is the residency requirement for teams - at least half a team roster must be city of Roswell residents - limits an already limited playing pool. Rush has a good national reputation and the indoor facility so you won't miss as many practices as those clubs with only grass fields
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Post by infoguy on May 18, 2017 11:31:05 GMT -5
ga3v3, thanks for sharing your personal experience. fanatic21, wow, that's a ton of great insight! Coach Q is who we met last night, seemed like a nice guy. Coach Janny Rivera and Ben Tayi are listed as 2005 boy coaches at Rush, but neither has bio listed. I am planning to make calls today and tomorrow to see if I can get some more specific info from the clubs regarding development philosophy and various other questions. The hard part is sifting the information and popular talking points that all clubs like to say from what plays out in reality. There are some good coaches at Santos - Q is a good guy and makes soccer fun for the kids. Overall Santos has a very good program for younger ages and probably stronger on the boys side. Like rifle said, they tend to lose kids at older ages for various reasons but that's not a reflection on the level of coaching at younger ages. The city of Roswell Recreation Department is incredible - that's who runs the facilities and they are gorgeous - combination of turf and grass and very very well maintained. Pity they don't rent them out for local tournaments but that's a government thing. One other slight downside to the Santos soccer program is the residency requirement for teams - at least half a team roster must be city of Roswell residents - limits an already limited playing pool. Rush has a good national reputation and the indoor facility so you won't miss as many practices as those clubs with only grass fields So I have to say in response, not to be argumentative is that the girl side has been more successful at Santos. Also to add, the City Recreation and park system is great, but the administration of the soccer program by certain individuals is exactly the reason why kids move on to other clubs as they age. To your case in point, no tournaments.
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Post by spectator on May 18, 2017 12:40:42 GMT -5
So I have to say in response, not to be argumentative is that the girl side has been more successful at Santos. Also to add, the City Recreation and park system is great, but the administration of the soccer program by certain individuals is exactly the reason why kids move on to other clubs as they age. To your case in point, no tournaments. I have to disagree that the administration of the parks and rec is the reason kids move on - most of the kids and even most parents - are pretty far removed from that group. In their defense, the administration is held accountable by the taxpayers of the City of Roswell not the soccer club so some decisions may seem boneheaded to soccer parents but may well be in the best interest of the taxpaying citizen of Roswell. I don't agree with most of what they did or didn't do (lack of tournaments) but that group was not the reason we left.
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Post by SoccerMom on May 18, 2017 12:55:15 GMT -5
There are some good coaches at Santos - Q is a good guy and makes soccer fun for the kids. Overall Santos has a very good program for younger ages and probably stronger on the boys side. Like rifle said, they tend to lose kids at older ages for various reasons but that's not a reflection on the level of coaching at younger ages. The city of Roswell Recreation Department is incredible - that's who runs the facilities and they are gorgeous - combination of turf and grass and very very well maintained. Pity they don't rent them out for local tournaments but that's a government thing. One other slight downside to the Santos soccer program is the residency requirement for teams - at least half a team roster must be city of Roswell residents - limits an already limited playing pool. Rush has a good national reputation and the indoor facility so you won't miss as many practices as those clubs with only grass fields So I have to say in response, not to be argumentative is that the girl side has been more successful at Santos. Also to add, the City Recreation and park system is great, but the administration of the soccer program by certain individuals is exactly the reason why kids move on to other clubs as they age. To your case in point, no tournaments. I have to agree with Spectator here, boys side is better than girls (for both Santos and Rush). And as kids get older, unfortunately they leave to go play in more competitive teams
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Post by infoguy on May 18, 2017 13:47:23 GMT -5
So, the girls' side has fielded RPL teams in recent years, the boys haven't. Believe me, I know that isn't the only metric. And yes, there are definitely rules/regs that city staff have to abide by, and they also have to be accountable to the taxpayers. I would just say as an example, look at the LAX tournament in Roswell every year - those involved discovered a true partnership with the City, within the same confines. And look at the City of Alpharetta's program: They had Super Y at the peak of its significance. I believe the current state boils down to the people involved and their willingness to find workable solutions for the older teams.
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Post by spectator on May 18, 2017 14:24:43 GMT -5
So, the girls' side has fielded RPL teams in recent years, the boys haven't. Believe me, I know that isn't the only metric. And yes, there are definitely rules/regs that city staff have to abide by, and they also have to be accountable to the taxpayers. I would just say as an example, look at the LAX tournament in Roswell every year - those involved discovered a true partnership with the City, within the same confines. And look at the City of Alpharetta's program: They had Super Y at the peak of its significance. I believe the current state boils down to the people involved and their willingness to find workable solutions for the older teams. You're right- it depends on the metric used. The girls have fielded one RPL team - but the coach and most of those players that earned that spot have now left the club. Retaining top talent on the girls side is something Roswell has lacked for years. The boys - while not achieving RPL status - have won Classic 1 at least once and those teams tend to stay together longer than the girls side does so they have the retention thing down but not the achievement - yet. Depends on which metric you want to use - 'success' or longevity.
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Post by infoguy on May 18, 2017 17:25:53 GMT -5
So, the girls' side has fielded RPL teams in recent years, the boys haven't. Believe me, I know that isn't the only metric. And yes, there are definitely rules/regs that city staff have to abide by, and they also have to be accountable to the taxpayers. I would just say as an example, look at the LAX tournament in Roswell every year - those involved discovered a true partnership with the City, within the same confines. And look at the City of Alpharetta's program: They had Super Y at the peak of its significance. I believe the current state boils down to the people involved and their willingness to find workable solutions for the older teams. You're right- it depends on the metric used. The girls have fielded one RPL team - but the coach and most of those players that earned that spot have now left the club. Retaining top talent on the girls side is something Roswell has lacked for years. The boys - while not achieving RPL status - have won Classic 1 at least once and those teams tend to stay together longer than the girls side does so they have the retention thing down but not the achievement - yet. Depends on which metric you want to use - 'success' or longevity. Regarding the 2000 and 2001 age girls that made RPL, there were some key players that left. But, the nail was the age rules change, which really hit that team hard. But for the record, a younger girls team, the U15s this year, made RPL as well.
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Post by fanatic21 on May 18, 2017 17:50:12 GMT -5
You're right- it depends on the metric used. The girls have fielded one RPL team - but the coach and most of those players that earned that spot have now left the club. Retaining top talent on the girls side is something Roswell has lacked for years. The boys - while not achieving RPL status - have won Classic 1 at least once and those teams tend to stay together longer than the girls side does so they have the retention thing down but not the achievement - yet. Depends on which metric you want to use - 'success' or longevity. Regarding the 2000 and 2001 age girls that made RPL, there were some key players that left. But, the nail was the age rules change, which really hit that team hard. But for the record, a younger girls team, the U15s this year, made RPL as well. Think the current Santos Girls RPL team is U16 and they are still together. Regardless of what you say about Santos, they definitely seem to be headed in the right direction. 3 or 4 years ago they were nothing but B/C (and lower) and C2/C3 (and lower) level teams. They still lose players and don't have a top team in every division, but think they have RPL, A, or at least B and C1 or at least C2 in every age U16 and below, and their Academy teams compete well for the most part against the big clubs - as info guy said about the U16 or U17 RPL team from last year (not sure which age it was), think the birth year mandate caused a few of the older teams to break up, but I imagine Santos will recover after that little set-back. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a team in at least A/C1 in every age within the next year or two. Of course it depends on the age group, but if someone was looking for a team in the North Fulton area (thread was started by someone who mentioned Santos, Rush, NASA), I'd definitely check out Santos. Don't think they will every have ECNL or DA, so may not be the destination for the super elite player, but they do a pretty good job of developing players (hence the reason why their players are always getting recruited by bigger clubs), and I'd likely rather have my kid on a 1st team at a local club like Santos than drive him to a mega club to play on a 2nd team.
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Post by Soccerhouse on May 18, 2017 18:19:28 GMT -5
That Roswell girls team a few years ago was a story similar to Ga Uniteds u14s and Concorde u13s this year.
Didn't they start off at like Athena c and win their way up to RPL. Once they got to rpl they lost the magic unfortunately, assuming they lost players and didn't they have a few injures? Either way great story!!!! If I'm not mistaken I think they Also tied or beat an ecnl team in a spring preseason tourney one of those years
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Post by SoccerMom on May 19, 2017 7:20:00 GMT -5
You're right- it depends on the metric used. The girls have fielded one RPL team - but the coach and most of those players that earned that spot have now left the club. Retaining top talent on the girls side is something Roswell has lacked for years. The boys - while not achieving RPL status - have won Classic 1 at least once and those teams tend to stay together longer than the girls side does so they have the retention thing down but not the achievement - yet. Depends on which metric you want to use - 'success' or longevity. Regarding the 2000 and 2001 age girls that made RPL, there were some key players that left. But, the nail was the age rules change, which really hit that team hard. But for the record, a younger girls team, the U15s this year, made RPL as well. The U16G Santos did make RPL, but it was 1st Division, and while they did end up in 3rd place, most of the teams in 1st division are 2nd teams. I don't think they can compete with the top teams out there and that is why the really good players eventually leave. Yes it will depend on what your goals are and what you're looking for whether you should go there or not. Someone said better to play in their top team than play at a mega club's 2nd team, but what if you're playing against that 2nd team. I think it will come down to distance, and coaches, and overall environment that will allow your child to grow as a soccer player. The big clubs are not for everyone and neither are the smaller clubs, your decision will have to be based on what level your kid wants to play and thrive.
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Post by spectator on May 19, 2017 14:07:45 GMT -5
That Roswell girls team a few years ago was a story similar to Ga Uniteds u14s and Concorde u13s this year. Didn't they start off at like Athena c and win their way up to RPL. Once they got to rpl they lost the magic unfortunately, assuming they lost players and didn't they have a few injures? Either way great story!!!! If I'm not mistaken I think they Also tied or beat an ecnl team in a spring preseason tourney one of those years Yes - in Fall 2013 that particular team got hosed with placement and put in CD. They trounced quite a few teams and got moved to Athena B in Spring. They won that handily and moved up to Athena A Fall. They finished 5th behind the four teams that were put into RPL. In Spring they won U14 Athena A but didn't get the word they'd be RPL that Fall until several key players left. I think they struggled in RPL and with the age mandate and other factors, most of that original team has moved on to other RPL level teams. It was quite a Cinderella story at the time, though. If Roswell is producing some strong younger teams now, good for them. And I hope they can keep them together. The boys teams may have less success but they also tend to have less drama and players leaving. The OP has boys so Santos may be a good fit. Regarding the comment Maybe for the mega clubs, 1st Division teams are 2nd teams, but not for all - that's a pretty broad blanket statement. Granted UFA has nine thousand teams and their second or even third may be in 1st division but even Concorde and NTH have first teams in 1st Division - check your facts.
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Post by SoccerMom on May 19, 2017 14:39:52 GMT -5
Maybe for the mega clubs, 1st Division teams are 2nd teams, but not for all - that's a pretty broad blanket statement. Granted UFA has nine thousand teams and their second or even third may be in 1st division but even Concorde and NTH have first teams in 1st Division - check your facts. U16G - Concorde and NTH top teams are ECNL. CF 2nd team played in premier division, and so did Tophat Gold (which is their 2nd team) as well as AFU 2nd team. First Div had Tophat Navy (3rd team) and GSA's 2nd team. I am not trying to knock on them, I have never seen them play, but unfortunately they are not at the same level as the other top teams. Like i stated depending on what their goals are, they can make a choice of where they want to play
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Post by spectator on May 19, 2017 16:34:27 GMT -5
OK honest question - If you've never seen them play, how do you know they aren't at the same level as the other teams? The 'division' a team plays in isn't always reflective of the 'level' of the team. There are ECNL or SRPL teams that Athena A teams can and have beaten. SRPL teams have fallen to RPL Division 1 teams in tournaments and other games. Remember - on any given day . . . Yes - on AVERAGE - an SRPL team is most likely a higher performing team than a division below them - but to make the broadbrushed statement about the quality of Division 1 RPL isn't exactly a fair and accurate representation of the teams. Just like assuming any ECNL team is superior to any RPL team just by nature of being in a different league.
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Post by SoccerMom on May 19, 2017 16:41:30 GMT -5
OK honest question - If you've never seen them play, how do you know they aren't at the same level as the other teams? The 'division' a team plays in isn't always reflective of the 'level' of the team. There are ECNL or SRPL teams that Athena A teams can and have beaten. SRPL teams have fallen to RPL Division 1 teams in tournaments and other games. Remember - on any given day . . . Yes - on AVERAGE - an SRPL team is most likely a higher performing team than a division below them - but to make the broadbrushed statement about the quality of Division 1 RPL isn't exactly a fair and accurate representation of the teams. Just like assuming any ECNL team is superior to any RPL team just by nature of being in a different league. I will agree with you about if you're ECNL not necessarily a better team, hard to know since theyre in different leagues. But the rest of the teams all play in the same league, in the same state cup and each other from time to time. So take it however you want to take it, but RPL Division 1 is just Athena A that costs more money.
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Post by guest on May 23, 2017 8:18:57 GMT -5
Other than some travel costs 2-3 times a season, plus having to pay the refs (I always find it strange to say that), I didn't find RPL 1st division to cost that much more than Athena A. I agree that Athena A teams can beat 1st division teams. But at the end of the day there is a promotion/relegation protocol in effect. If you're in 1st div and you lose, you'll be in Athena A next season. Also there's the added plus of getting to play teams you don't see at every local tournament. And finally, 1st division phases out at U17 I think?
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Post by soccer on May 23, 2017 8:30:15 GMT -5
Other than some travel costs 2-3 times a season, plus having to pay the refs (I always find it strange to say that), I didn't find RPL 1st division to cost that much more than Athena A. I agree that Athena A teams can beat 1st division teams. But at the end of the day there is a promotion/relegation protocol in effect. If you're in 1st div and you lose, you'll be in Athena A next season. Also there's the added plus of getting to play teams you don't see at every local tournament. And finally, 1st division phases out at U17 I think?
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Post by soccer on May 23, 2017 8:33:43 GMT -5
Other than some travel costs 2-3 times a season, plus having to pay the refs (I always find it strange to say that), I didn't find RPL 1st division to cost that much more than Athena A. I agree that Athena A teams can beat 1st division teams. But at the end of the day there is a promotion/relegation protocol in effect. If you're in 1st div and you lose, you'll be in Athena A next season. Also there's the added plus of getting to play teams you don't see at every local tournament. And finally, 1st division phases out at U17 I think?
Can anyone respond to the last bit of information... are they phasing out the first division at u17 or u18? If so- going to fewer teams of just consolidating the two divisions? Trying to figure out if a team won Classic 1/ Athena A at u17 or u18 this past fall, do the promotion rules apply?
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Post by guest on May 23, 2017 9:00:34 GMT -5
Other than some travel costs 2-3 times a season, plus having to pay the refs (I always find it strange to say that), I didn't find RPL 1st division to cost that much more than Athena A. I agree that Athena A teams can beat 1st division teams. But at the end of the day there is a promotion/relegation protocol in effect. If you're in 1st div and you lose, you'll be in Athena A next season. Also there's the added plus of getting to play teams you don't see at every local tournament. And finally, 1st division phases out at U17 I think?
Can anyone respond to the last bit of information... are they phasing out the first division at u17 or u18? If so- going to fewer teams of just consolidating the two divisions? Trying to figure out if a team won Classic 1/ Athena A at u17 or u18 this past fall, do the promotion rules apply? Sorry I think it is the separate East North and East South divisions that are phased out. Not the 1st division itself.
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