|
Post by Soccerhouse on Jun 14, 2017 12:44:08 GMT -5
So everyone knows I was a big anti-age group mandate person. Still am....
How was the year though. Was it as bad as we thought. At younger agegroups, after the fallout of lack of depth at some clubs, seemed like business as usual. The mega club's seem to be gaining more and more players every year. I've heard of seniors now playing for random teams because their entire team has graduated. I didn't hear much this past year about the Spring u15s with half the kids being freshman and the other half being 8th graders.
Biggest gripe I still have is US soccer knew they were: expanding boys DA agegroups to u12s expanding boys DA agegroups to add u13/14 individual teams expanding boys DA agegroups to u15s expanding boys DA to new clubs creating girls DA
Given all the above is based upon calendar year age groups, don't we think it would have been more important than ever to have an existing system that helped identify the fall and early birthdays.
Hell, DA has been in place for what 10 years, and we still have a 40 year old left back starting for the mens national team. Surely one defender could have been developed during this time period from this lauded program?
I have hear many times recently -- "man I miss our old team"
|
|
|
Post by rifle on Jun 14, 2017 13:04:15 GMT -5
It's proven to be pointless. The impact on teams at freshman and senior year of high school is a big deal, but the federation gives exactly zero damns about this reality.
|
|
|
Post by jack4343 on Jun 14, 2017 14:00:11 GMT -5
I thought it was a poorly thought out idea and it's implementation proved my opinions. Its just been a real mess and I think it's had an effect on the total number of players continuing to play. For sure it's shaken up whole teams and the jostling around of players moving from club to club has continued this year in the search for the best fit for their child something that wouldn't have happened on the same scale if things were left alone.
The question...Even with all the chaos. Has it done what it was designed to do? To even the playing field with Europe and allow our federation to better identify talent to compete with the rest of the world? Well, I can't state it from that point but I can from my own experiences with my 11 year old daughter. Very talented u10 player before the age mandate. Played center mid with excellent field vision and creativity. After age mandate, moved up to u12 (even though she was still 10 for most of the fall season). No longer playing in her position due to her lack of size and athleticism against girls that were in many cases almost a year older than her. For girls, the 10 to 12 year age is huge for growth and development and it really showed on her. Lost confidence, struggled to compete against bigger girls and basically lost interest. Luckily before the spring season she hit a growth spurt and shot up in height and size and it showed as she regained some confidence and began holding her own against the same girls she struggled against earlier. Overall though I'd say that it hurt my kid. She had some promise talent wise but I would say that currently with the new mandate she just blends in with the other players. It affected my other daughter but not on the same level. Basically for her she lost a year of playing as the mandate moved her from u15 to u17 and got her closer to finishing her soccer career. The older girls that are on 2nd teams and lower already struggled to field teams and now it's even harder. Lots of teams with various aged girls put together to field makeshift teams. Its almost like high school ball in the fact that many u17 and u18 teams have girls that can't play at their true age because there aren't enough girls. But then again, the federation doesn't really care about them anyway, right? Of course those kids will eventually have kids of their own and would possibly steer them clear of youth soccer due to their bad experiences. But of course the federation isn't thinking about that but then again I don't they are thinking much anyway.
|
|
|
Post by Kick Goals 10 on Jun 14, 2017 14:01:45 GMT -5
Not a fan of it. My daughter was U15 in the spring. Her club team had to pull up some 03's to fill the team. She played both club and HS. She went from playing with seniors to playing the 7th graders. On top of that, she has been out 6 weeks with an overuse injury.
|
|
|
Post by soccer72 on Jun 14, 2017 14:56:34 GMT -5
Not a fan. My daughter was on the 8th grade side of the u15s this year and it was a bad experience for everyone involved. A few clubs tried to piece together enough girls to get in some soccer but the games were few and far between and always had very few if any subs.
|
|
|
Post by Soccerhouse on Jun 14, 2017 15:12:56 GMT -5
Useless. Supposedly put in place to align w rest of world. But one of my kids going to England for a tournament over summer and they have our old structure.... Broke school teams, car pools, groups of friends, etc for no good reason. Shame. But it is what it is. I'd like to hear more about this!
|
|
|
Post by parentsoccerfan on Jun 14, 2017 15:19:53 GMT -5
It's been rough- lost a year of Academy, my kid is a normal-sized very technical player and was always a starter on top team but now, with late-December birthday, having trouble competing against the size and strength of boys (men?) from the older part of the age group. More than anything, he misses playing with old teammates that were the same grade.
I wonder how many kids dropped out of soccer all together after this past season when teams were shuffled and long-time teammates were separated?
|
|
|
Post by SoccerMom on Jun 14, 2017 15:48:27 GMT -5
It wasn't that bad for us. Only 2 other girls from my daughters old team but she loved her new teammates. This year with DA she gets to play her some of her new teammates and some of her old. It wasn't as competitive because she was playing with younger kids but overall it wasn't that bad. She played HS and club at the same time.
|
|
|
Post by infoguy on Jun 14, 2017 20:09:59 GMT -5
It impacted some teams, yes - but if ur kid is a good player, then that's the bottom line. Not sure how the age mandate would affect their strength on a team.
|
|
|
Post by spectator on Jun 14, 2017 21:29:53 GMT -5
Never was a fan of the birth year mandate - never will be. My kid's team played up so they stayed together but friends at the mega clubs have had a miserable experience - entire teams breaking up, some age groups not able to field enough teams, on the older teams, seniors quitting before State Cup so the juniors had nothing. So many girls are quitting club soccer entirely this year and those that wanted to continue for their senior year had to move clubs.
I think the question we will be asking next year will be around the multiple "elite" levels there are now and how watered down teams became - and how Girls DA impacted high school teams.
|
|
|
Post by ilove8amgames on Jun 14, 2017 23:18:55 GMT -5
fan. Not a big fan, but more positive than neutral.
My oldest is Jan birthday and now playing kids his size. On top team in City for his age group. Younger kid May birthday and is not consistent starter on his team.
Worked out pretty well for us and honestly I've not had a single conversation about this the entire year after the first few weeks.
It's a new baseline. Just like last year, there were kids with early middle and late days. No big deal. It's only a big deal if your kid is now a late biday when they used to be an early bday.
Plenty more important things to complain about.
|
|
|
Post by Futsal Gawdess on Jun 15, 2017 20:25:11 GMT -5
Lots of interesting takes and comments. Out of curiosity, if you were the virtual head of all of Georgia Youth Soccer, what if any changes would you have implemented? What about the mandate? If you had the proverbial magic wand, what would you do with it? I'll sit back and listen to your comments, suggestions and ideas?
|
|
|
Post by spectator on Jun 15, 2017 21:20:06 GMT -5
Lots of interesting takes and comments. Out of curiosity, if you were the virtual head of all of Georgia Youth Soccer, what if any changes would you have implemented? What about the mandate? If you had the proverbial magic wand, what would you do with it? I'll sit back and listen to your comments, suggestions and ideas? I would have grandfathered any team U15-U16 and up in and allowed those age groups to play out their high school years. These are the age groups that got hit the hardest - the 2001's - 1999's. In a few years, no one will think twice about the birth year because it would have had time to shake out better - forcing it on all age groups last year was the death sentence for older teams. As for other changes/ideas/fantasies: Every team playing in Select (Classic/Athena/RPL) would be required to have two parents/players on those teams become certified referees. When you have skin in the game, you pay more attention to how you treat referees. It would alleviate the shortage. As GA Soccer Referee scheduler czar, I'd work with clubs to ensure those parent/player referees not have conflicts with their own games. If I had real power not only in GA soccer but USYS, I would not have awarded DA to current ECNL clubs and I would have awarded fewer DA spots to metro Atlanta clubs and spread it out across the state more. If my power extended to ECNL, I would remove at least two clubs in metro Atlanta from ECNL. Four is entirely too many. I would go back to 2-4 teams in RPL from GA in each age group - preferably only 2 and get rid of Division 1 RPL. I would ban any player who played in any single game on an ECNL team from playing in a State Cup game. And I would enforce strict penalties for any club that disregarded the ban. I would revamp ODP as a feeder into DA and have the two entities work hand in hand to identify and cultivate talent - start it at U10 up through U13 to allow a slight overlap with DA. Eliminate older ages ODP - DA is the path now. ODP served a purpose back in the day - revamp it to make it relevant again. So yeah - when I'm czar of all things soccer, it'll all get better.
|
|
|
Post by lefty on Jun 15, 2017 21:35:13 GMT -5
The biggest issue for our undersized December 2004 boy was having to skip U12 Academy and go straight to high level Classic. All new teammates plus the larger field made for a tough Fall season. He could have used another year on the smaller field.
|
|
|
Post by Soccerhouse on Jun 15, 2017 21:38:51 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by footballer on Jun 15, 2017 22:23:52 GMT -5
Lots of interesting takes and comments. Out of curiosity, if you were the virtual head of all of Georgia Youth Soccer, what if any changes would you have implemented? What about the mandate? If you had the proverbial magic wand, what would you do with it? I'll sit back and listen to your comments, suggestions and ideas? This above GYS but since we are fantasizing,
First move would be to unleash and unshackle young players U15 and below from the captivity that comes with DA.
I would go back to the old school year calendar
I would make DA free or minimal cost since it would be u15 and up
ODP participation free or minimal cost
I think this would help raise the bar within US soccer not just GA.
Obviously opening multiple indoor locations for severe weather conditions and turf fields would have a positive impact as well but I didn't want the money grabbers to come after this post
|
|
|
Post by Soccerhouse on Jun 16, 2017 7:41:27 GMT -5
I honestly thought the letter from the letter from the Youth Council Technical Working Group to U.S. Soccer was going to have an impact (http://usclubsoccer.org/2016/02/05/statement-from-youth-council-technical-working-group-to-u-s-soccer/)
It didn't.....
I would have called an immediately emergency meeting with the states in region III to discuss and see if all the states were on board and the ramifications of the switch particularly the oldest age group and the 8/9th grader age group. This alone is enough to say, slow down bob.... Then bring the additional regions to the table for a single voice. My guess is most disagree with the mandate, but feared standing up to U.S. Soccer.
US club soccer was in the perfect position not to switch, I'm really surprised they did.
|
|
|
Post by Futsal Gawdess on Jun 18, 2017 18:06:17 GMT -5
Love the comments and suggestions. However, I have to agree with Soccerhouse... Hire Spectator
|
|
|
Post by spectator on Jun 18, 2017 20:51:13 GMT -5
Love the comments and suggestions. However, I have to agree with Soccerhouse... Hire Spectator Let the salary negotiations begin! LOL
|
|
|
Post by jash on Jun 19, 2017 11:06:43 GMT -5
Every time this thread gets a new post I read the title as "A year in --- the age group mistake". So I guess that tells you how I feel. If they had grandfathered in existing select players (not doing so created serious chaos for many smaller clubs), the whole thing would be a lesser problem. But it still has negative impact in 3 main areas: - young children (just starting out) don't get to play with their classmates, reducing the "community" feeling that draws and holds many players to youth sports
- it eliminates the "double hump" we used to have of having two cutoff dates (one for academy+select and such, the other for DA+ODP) meaning that there was a place for more kids to be the oldest and excel (which is, as we know, the #1 way to excel in youth soccer)
- the whole 8th/12th grade problem of making it so that late birthday kids may not have a team to play on in those grades
Overall, almost zero benefit for much cost. End grade: D-
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Jun 19, 2017 15:05:36 GMT -5
Every time this thread gets a new post I read the title as "A year in --- the age group mistake". So I guess that tells you how I feel. If they had grandfathered in existing select players (not doing so created serious chaos for many smaller clubs), the whole thing would be a lesser problem. But it still has negative impact in 3 main areas: - young children (just starting out) don't get to play with their classmates, reducing the "community" feeling that draws and holds many players to youth sports
- it eliminates the "double hump" we used to have of having two cutoff dates (one for academy+select and such, the other for DA+ODP) meaning that there was a place for more kids to be the oldest and excel (which is, as we know, the #1 way to excel in youth soccer)
- the whole 8th/12th grade problem of making it so that late birthday kids may not have a team to play on in those grades
Overall, almost zero benefit for much cost. End grade: D-
You are being to generous with the D-. This was, is, and will be an utter "fail" for youth soccer. Your first point is the most unforgivable in my eyes... followed very closely by the third one. What's just as maddening to me is that they (US Soccer) wouldn't even listen to the resounding, almost deafening cries from the majority of it's members. It has been with great disgust that we have eat their **** sandwich with a smile and accept that they don't care in the least about the 99% of kids that just want to play soccer with friends (in their same grade) and without having to possibly miss seasons like they do in the 8th/12th grades. Grade: F - (wish there was something lower than that)
|
|
|
Post by soccerdaddy on Jun 19, 2017 23:06:11 GMT -5
Grade B from my perspective and do agree that some things could of been done at the older age groups. The world is on birth year, OK let's do this. Unfortunately, those that dominated before no longer do in the age groups. My son is July 04 and went from youngest to right in the middle and has retained first team status even before the switch. I understand the beef for the high school ages being broken up when most of them have been together for several years together and will cause some to quit the sport at a competitive level because now they may not be able to be dominant like they used to or they don't have their buddies. I get it, the dominant players with the later birth months go from oldest to youngest in 1 year. Yes, that would bring anyone down to realize that you no longer dominate your age. 2 years from now we won't have this conversation.
|
|
|
Post by Soccerhouse on Jun 20, 2017 7:45:40 GMT -5
I heard it alot, "I just want my old team back" --- this wasn't just an age group mandate issue, but simultaneously coming with DA and Atlanta United.
the 8th/12th grade problem I don't see being fixed -- for the DA kids, this mostly isn't a problem, but for everyone else it sucks. And given we already had DA on calendar year, just leave the age groups alone!!
I give it an E which equals a big fat 0.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Jun 20, 2017 9:47:52 GMT -5
Grade B from my perspective and do agree that some things could of been done at the older age groups. The world is on birth year, OK let's do this. Unfortunately, those that dominated before no longer do in the age groups. My son is July 04 and went from youngest to right in the middle and has retained first team status even before the switch. I understand the beef for the high school ages being broken up when most of them have been together for several years together and will cause some to quit the sport at a competitive level because now they may not be able to be dominant like they used to or they don't have their buddies. I get it, the dominant players with the later birth months go from oldest to youngest in 1 year. Yes, that would bring anyone down to realize that you no longer dominate your age. 2 years from now we won't have this conversation. Just so you know, I have 3 girls in soccer, and my "beef" with it has nothing to do with them going from oldest to youngest. That isn't even an argument, all you're doing is switching who the ones are that are bizatching about their kids not having an advantage due to age. My oldest daughter was caught in the 8th/9th grade disaster of a spring season due to being on the 8th grade side. We wound up playing 4 total games this spring, none of which were competitive. On top of that, she also had to jump from U13 to U15, losing a full year of developmental soccer (over her soccer career). Vote: Thumbs downMy middle child was already playing "up" on an elite team so going from playing girls a 1 1/2 years older to her actually being within her birth year was an advantage, but to her (and us parents) she lost some of her friends and teammates that where in her grade. She would much rather have stayed with her school mates and friends she had been playing along side for 3 years. Vote: Thumbs downFinally, my youngest is just joining U9 Academy this year, and instead of getting to be with her classmates or even hoping to coax/persuade some of them to come play soccer with her, she will unfortunately have a divided team with kids she won't share as much in common with. Vote: Thumbs downUltimately, if US Soccer would have listened to a majority of coaches (Club, College, or H.S.), or parents, or children, this would never have happened. Instead, they made a quick, but hugely impactful change to youth soccer and then barricaded the door, put their hands over their ears and started chanting "la,la,la,la,la,... parents are dumb, la,la,la,la,la,... parents shouldn't have a say, la,la,la,la,la,... clubs don't matter, la,la,la,la,la,... what matters for youth soccer is the less than 1% that play international, la,la,la,la,la,..."
|
|
|
Post by soccerdaddy on Jun 20, 2017 10:46:53 GMT -5
Sorry, understood as the friends is a huge part of it. We also lost friends but I convinced my Son that they will always be your friends no matter which team. For this coming season, It was very hard to leave his friends and club of 5 years for DA. It's a new chapter and he has a new outlook on being competitive. He was being complacent and didn't want to shake things up with his friends. I asked him if you don't want to play in College or on a higher level then you can stay here and be with your friends because they all won't play soccer in College or higher. Again, I agree with you about the shake up and it was unfortunate for players not able to stay together but we can all move on since it has made us stronger.
|
|
|
Post by jash on Jun 20, 2017 10:51:18 GMT -5
I think a lot of people do assume that the people who dislike the mandate are just mad because their kid went from oldest to youngest. I'm sure a lot of people ARE mad about that. But some people (like me -- my son is aging out of youth soccer so it won't impact us anymore) really do care about the sport and the youth, and simply feel like it was a flippant decision made without regard to what a lot of people were saying.
And empirically it WAS a flippant decision made without regard to what a lot of people were saying.
Youth sports are about a lot more than the end result of professional, national team, or even college players. This decision, quite simply, hurt the sport of soccer especially in comparison to other sports. That sucks.
Sure, in 2 years nobody will be talking about it, because the fresh wound of it will be gone. But it's more of a "oh well, there's absolutely nothing that we, the people who provide ALL of the money to support this system, can do" rather than a "wow, 2 years later I finally see this was the right decision."
Once again, the kids that already mattered that they were on calendar year, were already on calendar year. The rest was just somebody (Klinsmann probably) out of touch with the little people and throwing his weight around.
|
|
|
Post by jash on Jun 20, 2017 10:53:46 GMT -5
Again, I agree with you about the shake up and it was unfortunate for players not able to stay together but we can all move on since it has made us stronger. I'm just curious how exactly moving an arbitrary line has made us stronger? Are you solely talking about international youth competitions?
|
|
|
Post by soccerdaddy on Jun 20, 2017 11:38:36 GMT -5
Sorry, I'm not talking about competitions. Just talking about being mentally stronger from this experience.
|
|
|
Post by jash on Jun 20, 2017 15:38:13 GMT -5
Well, if all we get out of it is being mentally stronger I think we could probably have come up with more palatable ways to accomplish that :-)
|
|
|
Post by jack4343 on Jun 20, 2017 20:31:50 GMT -5
One other thing I didn't mention in my earlier post. My 11 year old moves to a full field this year at the Athena A level against the best players in Metro Atlanta, many of them 12 going on 13. Think she stands a chance? Yeah me neither. Tell me again how our US youth organisations have our kids best interests at heart? My kid will be alright, she's tough and will adjust but truthfully I had hoped she would be developing and thriving at this stage not treading water.
|
|