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Post by surgesoccer on May 18, 2018 22:28:44 GMT -5
Saw an interesting Pyramid tonight put out by USY Soccer. Don't have an image so I'll lay it out. This is how they see the hierarchy:
DA
ECNL equivalent to NL
NPL equivalent to Classic 1
SCCL equivalent to Classic 2-5
Had to laugh at this but as a marketing piece I can see why USY Soccer via GA Soccer put this out. In fact if they were not biased they probably would not be doing their job. They have an incentive to describe the pyramid exactly as is.
Now One single League Equivalent Pyramid is impossible to put out for every age group, boys and girls because the teams and talent are so different from one to another (age and gender). So, while I cannot provide a General pyramid, I can give you one as to how I see the Boys 05 League Equivalent Pyramid.
Here Goes:
U13 Boys Pyramid by Surge Soccer (the equivalent of pre-season polls that eventually get half of their predictions wrong)
1. DA
2. ECNL (While Most DA teams would beat the u13 boys ECNL teams, there are a few where the ECNL teams would likely walk away with a win. In no case are the )
3. National League Equivalent to NPL (who knows. A lot of unknowns with NPL. I do think the NL (formerly RPL) will be a very competitive league for this group. I would probably put NL a half step ahead of NPL.)
4. SCCL - I'm putting SCCL ahead of Classic 1 by a half step to a whole step. Here's why: Out of the teams that competed in Classic 1 in the Fall, only 3 of 14 will return. The rest either jump to NL or SCCL. Those 3 teams remaining finished 9th, 11th, and 12th. The next 11 teams will be teams that competed in Classic 2. At u13 boys, Classic 1 next year will primarily be made up of teams that were Classic 2 this year. SCCL will be made up of 4 teams from Classic 1, a CF team possibly North or South (which were Classic 1 teams and would mean only 2 teams from Classic 1 remain), and teams from CESA, BUSA and VHSC. Don't know enough about the out of state teams to make a judgement on them
5. Classic 1: For the reasons above I put it below SCCL.
6. Classic 2-5.
*For Girls I would expect that ECNL is equivalent or maybe further ahead than DA. But I'm clueless on the girls side.
How would you rate the "Pyramid" in your kids age group?
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Post by oraclesfriend on May 19, 2018 6:00:17 GMT -5
I would say the same. Of the 05 girls teams that were in Athena A in the Fall 3 of the promoted to RPL teams are pulling out. SSA Elite (a team we have talked about a lot) and UFA Forsyth will go NPL. Tophat goes to ECNL. LSA goes NL. SSA beat everyone, LSA beat UFA both spring and fall by one late goal each time and beat Tophat in Spring but lost to them in Fall. The Athena A spring teams will go to NL (Santos for sure and likely AFC Lightning), SCCL (Tophat Navy, Concorde Central, UFA Norcross). Hard to say what will happen with MAYSA and AFU as no one knows exactly how the NL will work now. Possible that they will be out too and into NL.
2 points to make...no one knows how many people will leave any of these teams for others.
Concorde losing DA will send a few kids AT A MINIMUM to UFA and TH so the strengthening of those teams and the loss to Concorde will be hard to predict. Also while UFA has not had dominant DA squads the 05 team will have the best coach on the girls side at getting the kids disciplined and focused and improving them to a huge degree.
I see it as DA a half step above most ECNL teams though maybe not Concorde depending on how many leave.
NL and NPL could be equivalent depending on who out of state plays in each (which clubs send which teams) and we have little experience with the North Carolina teams to accurately judge them. NL has a slight edge until we see what happens just based on history.
SCCL definitely above Athena B since every team from this state is out of Athena A except SSA premier who would have been promoted to A. If GSA team has the best of North and South that will strengthen their teams. SCCL will be better than the new Athena A since many of the remaining teams are the lower half of A and to be promoted B teams.
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Post by sharks82 on May 19, 2018 8:39:49 GMT -5
The 05 UFA team will be going to DA, not NPL. I’d imagine you may only see half that team roll over to DA and the other half probably playing NPL or moving on to other clubs. Looking at UFAs 05 NPL team, it seems it’ll be a mixture of there top 3 teams- doesn’t seem to be much difference between there second and third team.
With 32 teams (4 groups of 8) in each age group going to the national level in the NL, LSA 05s will have a good chance of being asked to compete on that stage (due to teams like SSA leaving and others going DA). I think you could make the arguement that this level would be in line with ECNL, but the Piedmont league will be behind ECNL.
If the rumors about some AFU teams being granted spots without really earning it (no offense intended) are true, it makes me question whether it’s a league I want to be a part off. I also find it hard to believe they’ll only be one premier division with 5 Georgia teams taking part in it- that to me would hint at a two tier system.
Looking at SCCL, I think it’ll be comparable to the new Athena A, maybe a little above with Tophat 3rd team being in there. Putting in on an Athena B/C level wasn’t the best assessment LOL.
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Post by oraclesfriend on May 19, 2018 9:23:54 GMT -5
The UFA team I agree will be some DA, maybe some NPL or those will leave to go elsewhere. I was not inferring it would be the same team just that the "premier" team is leaving for NPL meaning that team would not be in NL. As I said there are a lot of assumptions that the teams will remain the same...they won't. I have heard of Santos players looking elsewhere, LSA players looking elsewhere, some people think SSA Elite will stay intact and some don't, Concorde ECNL will have girls that leave for TH DA or UFA DA. We know of some AFU girls looking to switch to GSA ECNL. All of this has a trickle down effect.
We will not know what will happen in the end. Historically, NL teams have not been as good ON AVERAGE as most ECNL teams. There will be exceptions. We will have to wait and see how it plays out. There is a lot of argument to be made regarding DA, ECNL, and NL and who will be the best. There is an argument that NPL will be superior to Athena A but I can see where some would disagree. About age group, now way SCCL is equal with Athena B. No way. I agree with you. SCCL teams are coming from Athena A
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Post by greenmonkey on May 19, 2018 14:42:45 GMT -5
The pyramid is really a rhombus
Take for example 06 girls
U12s moving from 9v9 to 11v11
And moving from Academy to Select
And two clubs with DA “playups” 05/06
TH and UFA will have some 06s playup to the 05DA
TH will then have the next group of girls playing a full ECNL while UFA will have that next group playing a full NPL .
How does that even equate to anything on the pyramid?
But the following U14 year those 06s from TH and UFA that we’re the U13 ECNL or NPL “should” be the teams developed to move up to the DA (unless TH goes all-in)
Meanwhile back at AFU and GSA your top 06s are ECNL as U13 and most would expect to stay at that level (unless the change clubs)
So now your top 06 is DA at TH, UFA
Second ECNL is TH, CF, GSA, AFU
Third is NPL is UFA, SSA, AFC
Fourth is SCCL TH, CF, GSA (combine), SSA and UFA Norcross,
Then the Athena’s
Now I could care less about what level my player is and care even lesser who she plays against.
What I am disappointed in is the move to U13 plus the leagues and alphabet chasers and club and coach manipulations have succeeded in one thing. Very very few u12 teams are going to have the same teammates consistently over the next two years.
It’s all about player development until it’s not
It’s all about the coaching until it’s not
It’s all about team work and working together until it’s not
And yep its a pyramid until it’s not working for the 99%
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Post by soccerloafer on May 19, 2018 16:52:35 GMT -5
GSSA lied like a dog when they sent out that graphic. On the girls side, it's clearly:
DA
ECNL
RPL / SCCL
Don't have enough experience with NL / NPL to properly seed, but think one is above RPL, one below. Not on par with DA or ECNL.
And RPL was a fricking disaster the last two years. Management was horrible and everyone hated it. Imagine going to a very poorly run tournament every few weeks. No field marshals, no website for real time updates, no communication. That's how it was. Competition was fine, but everything else was amateur hour.
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Post by playsmart88 on May 20, 2018 22:47:42 GMT -5
Norcross tied UFA Premier (norcross should of won game). Our team didn’t expect it. Red team is no where near as good either. As a previous AFU parent, I’ve heard a lot of parents leaving to play champions. We will see where they land. I have a daughter at Forsyth and a lot of parents aren’t fans of NPL and rather play champions. Will they drive to Norcross?
It’s going to be an interesting couple weeks.
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Post by oraclesfriend on May 21, 2018 8:26:04 GMT -5
Norcross tied UFA Premier (norcross should of won game). Our team didn’t expect it. Red team is no where near as good either. As a previous AFU parent, I’ve heard a lot of parents leaving to play champions. We will see where they land. I have a daughter at Forsyth and a lot of parents aren’t fans of NPL and rather play champions. Will they drive to Norcross? It’s going to be an interesting couple weeks. Interesting few weeks is right! Even more so in the older age groups with DA added in. There are some Fowler girls that will drive to Norcross. 2 left from our age group to go there last year and one from Norcross went to Fowler. That doesn't make sense for a lot of people though. It REALLY doesn't make sense to drive just to play in "SCCL" or "NPL". I am not meaning that people can't choose it for other good reasons, but to go to one BECAUSE of which league they THINK is going to be better is silly IMO. No one knows. It is also hard to "not be a fan of" NPL since they are changing that league anyway. They have added more clubs to improve competition and are adding games and making it structurally more like ECNL (don't jump on me...I am not comparing quality to ECNL just the structure). So they aren't able to judge that fairly because it will be different in NPL than it was last year. |
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Post by surgesoccer on May 21, 2018 9:38:46 GMT -5
All a crap shoot at this point. If you're choices are NPL, SCCL or Classic/Athena 1, then not sure you can say which will be the better league. Not even 100% sure what NL will be as it's going to be populated with a lot of teams that would not have been in RPL last year.
For the Big 5 it seems ridiculous to create the SCCL but then have a club like UFA immediately downgrade it via the "Pyramid of Contention". Would have been better to not say anything or show NPL and SCCL on the same line. Doing what they did seems to indicate to me that given a choice they want people gravitating to Fowler and NPL. Interestingly I'm hearing of more potential defections from Fowler to Norcross than the other way.
Of course what I hear is relative to the gender and surrounding age groups my kid is in.
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