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Post by Goalkeeper Dad on Sept 3, 2018 8:58:01 GMT -5
Wanted to get people thoughts on ODP. With DA being around is it worth the time and energy to travel over an hour for a tryouts and if you make the team the possibility of driving over an hour for practices? My daughter currently plays SCCL and has a goal of playing college soccer?
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Post by soccernotfootball on Sept 3, 2018 9:09:29 GMT -5
What age group? I've heard both good and bad for boys and girls. IMO, the older the age group, the more diluted it gets. However, I do know of some very good players in the program (obviously some ECNL players and players that could make DA programs but have decided not to for various reasons: school ball, etc.). Again, just from what I've heard, it's more worth it for girls. Seems to be a mixed bag. (~ I've also heard from several coaches now that it's not what it used to be, that the talent pool is less than expected. ~ With all that said, no harm in taking her to tryouts and getting a feel for it herself.)
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Post by Goalkeeper Dad on Sept 3, 2018 9:15:54 GMT -5
What age group? I've heard both good and bad for boys and girls. IMO, the older the age group, the more diluted it gets. However, I do know of some very good players in the program (obviously some ECNL players and players that could make DA programs but have decided not to for various reasons: school ball, etc.). Again, just from what I've heard, it's more worth it for girls. Seems to be a mixed bag. (~ I've also heard from several coaches now that it's not what it used to be, that the talent pool is less than expected. ~ With all that said, no harm in taking her to tryouts and getting a feel for it herself.) She is an 03 player |
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Post by soccernotfootball on Sept 3, 2018 9:22:15 GMT -5
What age group? I've heard both good and bad for boys and girls. IMO, the older the age group, the more diluted it gets. However, I do know of some very good players in the program (obviously some ECNL players and players that could make DA programs but have decided not to for various reasons: school ball, etc.). Again, just from what I've heard, it's more worth it for girls. Seems to be a mixed bag. (~ I've also heard from several coaches now that it's not what it used to be, that the talent pool is less than expected. ~ With all that said, no harm in taking her to tryouts and getting a feel for it herself.) She is an 03 player That would seem to be an established group. So, if she were to break into the pool, I think that would speak pretty highly of her capabilities. Again, no harm in going out to tryouts and getting a look for yourself and letting her get a feel for it. |
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Post by newposter on Sept 4, 2018 20:38:45 GMT -5
It's good for boys or girls in the older age groups. There are players not interested in being in a DA program. They choose rather to play ECNL, SCCL and ODP. I remind folks that the current system is responsible for the current USMNT results. Perhaps a change is due.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Sept 4, 2018 22:53:49 GMT -5
The idea of ODP is a great one. Find the best 50-60 players at an age group in the whole state, bring them together 2 sunday afternoons a month each season. Supply the best possible coaching and competition for a few hundred bucks a season. Like $50 per player for a 3-hour session (x6 or x8).
Showcases and whatnot be dammed, I don't think coaches are going to see more at these than they would by attending a few practices. And if DA doesn't want their kids in it, I got no beef with that. But if the goal is to have US soccer affiliated coaches identify top talent and pass the word up the ladder while giving some good coaching, this system makes WAY more sense than DA.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 5, 2018 7:19:58 GMT -5
It will never ever happen, but a game changer would be -- Each state/ODP creates a fully funded team that competes on the DA schedule.
Done, if necessary, you could even have 2 teams potentially if its a successful program and then tiered DA national program with promotion and relegation for competitive reasons.
Also minimize where possible travel to 5 hours or less.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Sept 5, 2018 8:16:45 GMT -5
DA simply doesn't make sense to me because it's club-based. The USWNT program is the best in the world, and it's not because of DA. If anything, it's due to ECNL and ODP. The goal for US soccer should be to get ALL THE BEST PLAYERS IN ONE PLACE, PLAYING AGAINST EACH OTHER to be evaluated. If anything, the dilution of the player pool due to DA has caused the USMNT problems. 2-3 clubs in a top soccer state that are in a 15 mile radius from the busiest traffic corridor in the state isn't the right way. DA seems like a bastardization of the European system, where you have WAY MORE small pro clubs per capita.
My kid will likely never make the ODP pool (she tries out terribly when not comfortable). But ODP as an idea is perfect, in practice, apparently it's not (due to politics of the clubs). Hence, the clubs and US Soccer seem to be the problem.
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Post by soccerfan30 on Sept 5, 2018 9:06:11 GMT -5
I coach ODP and have been involved in the program for the last nine years, if you have any questions please post them and I'll do my best to answer them.
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Post by soccernotfootball on Sept 5, 2018 9:16:43 GMT -5
soccerfan30 Thanks! 1) What is the likelihood of a player making it to State tryouts and then selected for the age group pool from the Preliminary tryouts? (i.e., not on the exempt list and did not get invited to pre-camp) 2) What is the process of a club being selected to have a pre-ODP ID session? (for the upcoming 08s going into next year) 3) If your club did not have a pre-ODP ID session, how is a player selected for the pre-camp? (example: some clubs didn't have the State DOC run ID clinics but they still had kids at the pre-camp.) 4) I understand kids on the exempt list for premlims go straight to State tryouts. Why weren't there any cuts from the pre-ODP camps? Seems everyone that was invited was also placed on the exempt list - even players that did not go to one day of pre-camp. So what is the point of pre-camp? I appreciate you offering to answer questions and taking the time to do so.
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Post by soccernotfootball on Sept 6, 2018 7:38:48 GMT -5
Bump. soccerfan30 Thanks! 1) What is the likelihood of a player making it to State tryouts and then selected for the age group pool from the Preliminary tryouts? (i.e., not on the exempt list and did not get invited to pre-camp) 2) What is the process of a club being selected to have a pre-ODP ID session? (for the upcoming 08s going into next year) 3) If your club did not have a pre-ODP ID session, how is a player selected for the pre-camp? (example: some clubs didn't have the State DOC run ID clinics but they still had kids at the pre-camp.) 4) I understand kids on the exempt list for premlims go straight to State tryouts. Why weren't there any cuts from the pre-ODP camps? Seems everyone that was invited was also placed on the exempt list - even players that did not go to one day of pre-camp. So what is the point of pre-camp? I appreciate you offering to answer questions and taking the time to do so. Read more: gasoccerforum.com/thread/3437/thoughts-on-odp#ixzz5QKCMqnEq |
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Post by soccerfan30 on Sept 6, 2018 8:47:31 GMT -5
Bump. soccerfan30 Thanks! 1) What is the likelihood of a player making it to State tryouts and then selected for the age group pool from the Preliminary tryouts? (i.e., not on the exempt list and did not get invited to pre-camp) 2) What is the process of a club being selected to have a pre-ODP ID session? (for the upcoming 08s going into next year) 3) If your club did not have a pre-ODP ID session, how is a player selected for the pre-camp? (example: some clubs didn't have the State DOC run ID clinics but they still had kids at the pre-camp.) 4) I understand kids on the exempt list for premlims go straight to State tryouts. Why weren't there any cuts from the pre-ODP camps? Seems everyone that was invited was also placed on the exempt list - even players that did not go to one day of pre-camp. So what is the point of pre-camp? I appreciate you offering to answer questions and taking the time to do so. Read more: gasoccerforum.com/thread/3437/thoughts-on-odp#ixzz5QKCMqnEqMy apologies for the delay, got a little sidetracked yesterday. 1. Its not unlikely, I've seen it happen on a number of occasions. With the advent of DA on both the boys and girls sides it provides more opportunities for players to make the State Team. I coach on the boys side, one year we had about 13-15 from our team make the region 3 pool, the most of any state. When Atlanta United started their DA program we lost most of those players to them and other DA programs. Within two years I would say a third of the state team were offered DA spots at various clubs, that age group was very strong at the time. That created opportunities for other players to make the state team over the last couple years, quite a number of new faces even at U15/U16 making the team for the first time. A couple that commuted from Savannah and near Chattanooga to play ODP. 2. Honestly I don't know the process on how clubs are selected for the pre ODP sessions, I'm sure Jacob decides in conjunction with the DOC's. I coach girls at NTH which has a strong track record in technical development and the playing style that matches the ODP philosophy so it would make sense for GA Soccer to hold a pre ODP session where they can see as many good players as possible- same with UFA, CF, GSA,etc. Given the track record for those clubs it makes sense to hold pre tryout evaluations there. If you are from a smaller club or somewhere outside the metro Atlanta area its probably more difficult to host pre tryout ODP camp, just for logistical and visibility reasons. 3. DOC's can make recommendations to Jacob, this is very helpful if you are at a smaller club or play outside the Metro Atlanta area. GA Soccer does offer District Training Centers in outlying areas to provide another pathway to ODP. 4. Not sure about that. May work differently for girls v boys ODP teams. Maybe exempt due to injury at the time of the pre camp or recommended by their clubs DOC. Sometimes players fall through the cracks or are overlooked. For my age group we typically have a handful of players that get second looks after the State Pool is finalized. Although it's rare some players have made the team after getting a second look but they have to be as good as the top half of the pool to get offered a spot. We're not going to add a player who's going be number 25+ on the roster. Hope that helps, let me know if you need further help. |
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Post by soccernotfootball on Sept 6, 2018 9:36:31 GMT -5
Thanks again, soccerfan30. All good info. As for the pre-camp, my assumption was there would be cuts from there and some kids would not make the exempt list. But that doesn't seem to be the case this year. I know of several players on "exempt" that didn't attend any sessions (and not because of injury). And, IMO, there were certainly some players out there that appeared less than the overall pool. It appears that if GA Soccer had your name, you were "exempt" no matter what. I was wondering if that was standard procedure and first cuts are at State tryouts or if that was new for this year. Not making any cuts from pre-camp lends to the talk that there's a dilution of quality. (For the record, I saw a number of quality players, which made the ones that weren't stand out. Again, just my opinion only. And everyone has a bad day or two.) Additionally, follow up question: What are coaches looking for? You generally know nothing of the kids and there's little time to make an impression. So what is it that the coaches are looking for out of each player? . |
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Post by soccerfan30 on Sept 6, 2018 10:46:40 GMT -5
Thanks again, soccerfan30. All good info. As for the pre-camp, my assumption was there would be cuts from there and some kids would not make the exempt list. But that doesn't seem to be the case this year. I know of several players on "exempt" that didn't attend any sessions (and not because of injury). And, IMO, there were certainly some players out there that appeared less than the overall pool. It appears that if GA Soccer had your name, you were "exempt" no matter what. I was wondering if that was standard procedure and first cuts are at State tryouts or if that was new for this year. Not making any cuts from pre-camp lends to the talk that there's a dilution of quality. (For the record, I saw a number of quality players, which made the ones that weren't stand out. Again, just my opinion only. And everyone has a bad day or two.) Additionally, follow up question: What are coaches looking for? You generally know nothing of the kids and there's little time to make an impression. So what is it that the coaches are looking for out of each player? . The coaches for our team including myself coach girls so we are going into the evaluation process with a blank canvas (minus returning players), when people say the team is picked in advance in our case that's not true. For me I don't care where the kid plays, my impressions are based on what I see. For me I'm looking for technical skill, creativity and tactical awareness, I'm not focused so much on physical attributes...for me technical skill and high soccer IQ are priorities for me. Most tryout sessions involve small sided games and full field scrimmages, the players that just rely on speed and athleticism may not fare well in the small sided games where technical skill, first touch and speed of thought is prioritized. That same player may be more impactful on the big field but I think really good players thrive in both settings. |
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Post by rightdeadfred on Sept 7, 2018 7:14:48 GMT -5
After a few years in ODP, my daughter and I came to the conclusion that it was a waste of time and money. Missing practices due to club schedule, too many rainouts with no alternative days scheduled, competition level dropped, and no inter state games the last 2 years. It was time to save some money for more meaningful practices and games.
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Post by surgesoccer on Sept 7, 2018 10:43:36 GMT -5
I'm going the opposite way. Have avoided it but with High School coming up figure will look to do it this year and maybe next. We do Super Y and the best thing about it is the chance together to know and play with kids from other clubs, so approaching this the same way.
Been advised to not expect too much from a training perspective.
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Post by soccernotfootball on Sept 7, 2018 11:43:47 GMT -5
It would be interesting to see a club breakdown of ODP players across the age groups. (Interesting to me at least.)
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Post by atlfutboldad on Sept 7, 2018 12:55:27 GMT -5
Probably 80% big 6 I'd guess (if not higher).
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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 7, 2018 15:56:10 GMT -5
Like anything it’s what you want to get out of it.
If you have a good coach and staff assisting the team I can’t say there is any harm other than the Travel to and from practices. The program really isn’t that expensive and you don’t have to attend the regionals event. Maybe not attending hurts you in the future, but that’s on a case by case basis.
We enjoyed odp but that was prior to my sons age group having DA. ie before DA had u12 and u13s etc. we had most of the top kids out there. Wait, let me say we thought we had most the top kids out there. When Atlanta united tryouts rolled out that year, kids came out of the woodwork. Kids, most of us had never seen before including many from out of state etc. all I’m saying even the odp fee limits access to many players.
Again - if you have a quality coach and just realize that your kid ain’t playing in the Olympics or national team you will be fine.
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Post by OTPSoccer on Sept 7, 2018 16:01:56 GMT -5
I don't have a breakdown, but I do not believe that it is 80% big six. There are a lot of CFC, Santos, GA Rush, Ambush kids in the mix.
It's worth noting - some coaches don't want their top players going to ODP for fear that they'll get recruited to go to another club.
For anyone considering ODP, I'd highly recommend it. It is very inexpensive training and the coaching is very good (in my opinion).
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Post by soccerspin on Sept 7, 2018 17:48:34 GMT -5
Concur with OTPSoccer. In our experience I’d even say the percentages were reversed... 80% non-big 6. And if not that high, then certainly the majority.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Sept 7, 2018 20:02:28 GMT -5
Clarify...boys or girls?
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Post by soccerparent02 on Sept 7, 2018 20:25:01 GMT -5
Kid plays ODP. Only 1 or 2 non big club players in pool that represented Georgia this summer. Most played ECNL. Great program at a reasonable cost. Very pleased but I'm certain that I will get ridiculed by the DA crowd stating how much better there program is. Kid turned DA down. Other kids on team also had DA experience but did not enjoy it.
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Post by soccerspin on Sept 8, 2018 6:24:32 GMT -5
We were u12 boys. Sounds like the makeup of players per club could vary quite a bit depending on age (lower ages with larger state pools), clubs that have DA, and then coaches who discourage their kids from doing it.
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Post by newposter on Sept 8, 2018 14:55:34 GMT -5
Larger clubs without DA (ECNL) have a lot of players on ODP. There are a few from smaller clubs.
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Post by spectator on Sept 8, 2018 22:26:46 GMT -5
Swooping in with my two cents about ODP based on our years with it.
ODP is the best or worst of what you make it. The myths/truths depend on what age, what gender and what coaches you have- case in point, the last comment about smaller clubs is absolutely false for my kid's gender and age group. We had an incredible mix of talent from big and small clubs all over the state. One of the kids who made Region Pool multiple years was from a small club in South Georgia - metro Atlanta big clubs do not have a monopoly on talent.
ODP is not expensive until you go to Region Camp/Region Pool travel. By that point, it's either worth it or not and you can make that decision.
ODP is/is not political. Depends on age, gender, etc. We saw the good the bad and the downright WTF ugly, but overall it was a positive thing for us
ODP does offer opportunities to be seen by coaches outside of GA - in Sub Regionals and Region Camp. The coach my kid is now playing for in college first saw her at Sub Regions then at Region Camp. Many of the ODP and Region coaches are also college coaches - making ODP a great option for a kid to be seen - especially if he or she is from a club without ECNL and access to those ECNL showcases with a gazillion college coaches.
ODP does need to schedule training around club obligations. It's almost impossible to accommodate everyone but with a little research, the age group coordinator and coaches can look at the schedules of GA Soccer,ECNL, and whatever Region Leagues there are now and get the training arranged so most of the players can attend. If you get that, you will have a cohesive group that can go far.
For my kid, ODP was a great experience. She had amazing coaches and made friends across the state. Region Camp is not a fun thing (it's hot, intense and one long tryout) but she enjoyed the challenge and the experiences they had (haunted dorm at Montavello LOL)
DA players cannot participate in ODP but all others can. At the very least, ODP offers additional training and the opportunity to be seen by other coaches - at the end of the day, that is never a bad thing for the development of a player.
So yeah, if you have the opportunity and your kid has the desire, go to tryouts. You can decide there if it's worth your time and money base on who you see and who the coaches are. We had a great experience with our time in ODP. She had amazing coaches, made great friends, developed as a player and ultimately met the coach she is now playing for in college - totally worth our time! I truly hope you will have the same experience!
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Post by soccerparent02 on Sept 9, 2018 16:44:18 GMT -5
Great posting on ODP. Our kids experience exactly. This is their junior year and has multiple college coaches inviting to campus. We know two so them at an ODP event.
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Post by daddyo on Sept 10, 2018 17:07:11 GMT -5
ODP is extremely useful at the young ages. Touches on the ball, you can't complain about that. DA has watered down the groups but if you want your kid to get extra practice, learn "teaching styles" from other coaches, meet so many cool kids in their age group, play different positions than they are use to, it serves its purpose.
And yes, coaches use ODP to recruit. Some coaches even stack the ODP teams with their own clubs players but it doesn't defeat the purpose of Extra touches at a reasonable rate.
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DOOM
Jr. Academy
Posts: 72 
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Post by DOOM on Sept 10, 2018 19:44:08 GMT -5
Larger clubs without DA (ECNL) have a lot of players on ODP. There are a few from smaller clubs. I can only speak of the '05 Girls team...but there are very few, what you would consider "top kids" playing on this particular ODP Team. My child played ODP the last 2 years and said she would not play it again. She does play ECNL and I would say very few ECNL players actually tried out last year. This particular ODP squad is made up of smaller club players and SCCL players. For us, it was not worth the drive to Conyers and we will not be doing it again. |
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Post by rudy on Sept 10, 2018 22:23:17 GMT -5
Boys train at Atlanta United training facility in Marietta. Our kid said it was worth the drive. Most of state team were ECNL in that age.
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