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Post by surgesoccer on Sept 3, 2018 22:59:04 GMT -5
Dilution Destroys Competitiveness. No one knew what to expect but when the pool of teams is reduced there is likely going to be a drop in competitiveness. That's what I saw this weekend. My perspective is strictly based on our Gender and Age group - Boys U14. Others might have a different perspective based on their groups. - For us the opening day featured 3 games (out of 4 games) where the winning teams won: 5-0, 5-0 and 5-1. Final game was 2-2
- The second day appears more competitive with scores of 2-1, 2-1, 4-2 and 7-1.
- Third day only featured 3 games with scores of 4-0, 6-1 and 4-1
At best 4 games out of 11 were competitive (final goal differential of 2 goals or less). And one of those was competitive for a half, but the second half was very one sided. So modified to 3.5 competitive games out of 11.
It's going to be a long Fall supplemented for our team by select scrimmages against teams in NL, NPL and hopefully at least one ECNL team. --- That's the negative. The positive is I really like the idea behind the league of trying to play meaningful games within a smaller geographical area. The travel required is not crazy and that's a good thing as more miles equals more dollars out of parent's pockets. I also like the setup playing a home and away. Finally to some degree I like the consistency of playing in a league verses who knows where we will be every year. How many times do clubs tout they will be playing at one level only to find out after players have committed that you're playing at a different level. ---- At our age group I could pick at least 15 quality teams playing in ECNL, NPL, NL, SCCL and Classic 1. It's a shame that a majority of these clubs have chosen to travel to play meaningful games outside of the state when more than enough competitive games could be found within a 50 mile drive. This is more about what's in the best interest of USYS and US Club, and individual clubs than it is about the players and parents. The shame of it all is that this only happens because we parent's allow it to happen.
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Post by soccernotfootball on Sept 4, 2018 7:04:47 GMT -5
I've heard very good things coming from SCCL. A lopsided scoreline can happen at any level. Also, the scoreline isn't always an indicator of what's happening on the field. It could be a more competitive match between the lines than the final score would show. From the outside looking in, it would seem that the SCCL is a very good option. If you'd like to see "dilution destroys competitiveness", take a look at what's going on across the Select levels.
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Post by surgesoccer on Sept 4, 2018 7:48:27 GMT -5
Don't disagree on what's happening across the levels. Classic 1 this year is closer to Classic 2 at our Gender/Age Group. National League tier 2 is pretty much close to what Classic 1 was last year.
Also my perspective is only one Gender /age group. Very small sample size of the whole, so not claiming all of SCCL suffers from lack of competition. Thought the weekend was run very well, and overall I like how things have been managed, communicated, etc.
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Post by greenmonkey on Sept 4, 2018 8:04:33 GMT -5
Girls SCCL CLUB Totals
GP W D L GF GA Pts. NTH 14 12 1 1 49 10 37 CF 20 9 3 8 42 40 30 VHS 18 8 5 5 29 27 29 BUS 20 7 5 8 22 28 26 SSA 17 4 8 5 18 21 20 CES 14 5 2 7 16 19 17 UFA 17 5 2 10 18 38 17 GSA 18 4 4 10 29 40 16
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Post by Goalkeeper Dad on Sept 4, 2018 9:34:58 GMT -5
Dilution Destroys Competitiveness. No one knew what to expect but when the pool of teams is reduced there is likely going to be a drop in competitiveness. That's what I saw this weekend. My perspective is strictly based on our Gender and Age group - Boys U14. Others might have a different perspective based on their groups. - For us the opening day featured 3 games (out of 4 games) where the winning teams won: 5-0, 5-0 and 5-1. Final game was 2-2
- The second day appears more competitive with scores of 2-1, 2-1, 4-2 and 7-1.
- Third day only featured 3 games with scores of 4-0, 6-1 and 4-1
At best 4 games out of 11 were competitive (final goal differential of 2 goals or less). And one of those was competitive for a half, but the second half was very one sided. So modified to 3.5 competitive games out of 11.
It's going to be a long Fall supplemented for our team by select scrimmages against teams in NL, NPL and hopefully at least one ECNL team. --- That's the negative. The positive is I really like the idea behind the league of trying to play meaningful games within a smaller geographical area. The travel required is not crazy and that's a good thing as more miles equals more dollars out of parent's pockets. I also like the setup playing a home and away. Finally to some degree I like the consistency of playing in a league verses who knows where we will be every year. How many times do clubs tout they will be playing at one level only to find out after players have committed that you're playing at a different level. ---- At our age group I could pick at least 15 quality teams playing in ECNL, NPL, NL, SCCL and Classic 1. It's a shame that a majority of these clubs have chosen to travel to play meaningful games outside of the state when more than enough competitive games could be found within a 50 mile drive. This is more about what's in the best interest of USYS and US Club, and individual clubs than it is about the players and parents. The shame of it all is that this only happens because we parent's allow it to happen. On the girl's side there was probably 1-2 games per bracket that was won by 2 or more goals. Overall as a parent I enjoyed it because the games were high level and competitive and the referees did a great job with the water breaks and calling a fair game (in my opinion, there might be 1 team that we played that might disagree with the comment). Look forward to see how the rest of the year goes
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Post by surgesoccer on Sept 4, 2018 9:46:21 GMT -5
Boys SCCL CLUB Totals
Team ---------- GP - W - D - L - GF - GA - Pts VHSC --------- 19 -- 12 - 3 - 4 - 61 - 27 - 39 UFA Norcross - 21 -- 11 - 3 - 7 - 50 - 34 - 36 Concorde ----- 21 -- 9 - 4 - 8 - 49 - 45 - 31 CESA --------- 14 -- 8 - 3 - 3 - 38 - 21 -- 27 NASA --------- 14 -- 7 - 4 - 3 - 34 - 17 -- 25 GSA ----------- 19 -- 7 - 4 - 8 - 31 - 40 -- 25 SSA ----------- 21 -- 5 - 3 - 13 - 31 - 69 - 18 BUSA --------- 21 -- 3 - 5 - 13 - 27 - 59 - 14
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Post by surgesoccer on Sept 4, 2018 9:48:53 GMT -5
Dilution Destroys Competitiveness. No one knew what to expect but when the pool of teams is reduced there is likely going to be a drop in competitiveness. That's what I saw this weekend. My perspective is strictly based on our Gender and Age group - Boys U14. Others might have a different perspective based on their groups. - For us the opening day featured 3 games (out of 4 games) where the winning teams won: 5-0, 5-0 and 5-1. Final game was 2-2
- The second day appears more competitive with scores of 2-1, 2-1, 4-2 and 7-1.
- Third day only featured 3 games with scores of 4-0, 6-1 and 4-1
At best 4 games out of 11 were competitive (final goal differential of 2 goals or less). And one of those was competitive for a half, but the second half was very one sided. So modified to 3.5 competitive games out of 11.
It's going to be a long Fall supplemented for our team by select scrimmages against teams in NL, NPL and hopefully at least one ECNL team. --- That's the negative. The positive is I really like the idea behind the league of trying to play meaningful games within a smaller geographical area. The travel required is not crazy and that's a good thing as more miles equals more dollars out of parent's pockets. I also like the setup playing a home and away. Finally to some degree I like the consistency of playing in a league verses who knows where we will be every year. How many times do clubs tout they will be playing at one level only to find out after players have committed that you're playing at a different level. ---- At our age group I could pick at least 15 quality teams playing in ECNL, NPL, NL, SCCL and Classic 1. It's a shame that a majority of these clubs have chosen to travel to play meaningful games outside of the state when more than enough competitive games could be found within a 50 mile drive. This is more about what's in the best interest of USYS and US Club, and individual clubs than it is about the players and parents. The shame of it all is that this only happens because we parent's allow it to happen. On the girl's side there was probably 1-2 games per bracket that was won by 2 or more goals. Overall as a parent I enjoyed it because the games were high level and competitive and the referees did a great job with the water breaks and calling a fair game (in my opinion, there might be 1 team that we played that might disagree with the comment). Look forward to see how the rest of the year goes ------ Referees were very good. Best collection over 3 games as I've seen. Be nice if quality continues. Not sure if that was Concorde ref's or league ref's.
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Post by soccerloafer on Sept 4, 2018 9:56:37 GMT -5
Referees are assigned by the hosting club. Leagues generally don't have a pool of referees.
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Post by surgesoccer on Sept 4, 2018 10:17:58 GMT -5
Then Concorde deserves kudos for having good quality ref's for the opening weekend.
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Post by soccerloafer on Sept 4, 2018 11:15:28 GMT -5
On the SSA side (girls venue), the referee pool was mostly limited to Grade 7 and experienced Grade 8's. Also had a per day game limit so refs weren't working 5 games a day. The message was - you get two or three games a day, bring your best effort. And the pay was on par with RPL / ECNL.
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Post by guest on Sept 4, 2018 12:24:58 GMT -5
Overall good impression for SCCL girls side. This was everything that the RPL opening weekend was supposed to be, except for the double booked fields, no show refs and travel to J’ville. Loved the club atmosphere with several ages playing back to back. Trainers, signage, water, tents, etc. Never got anything like that from RPL.
Regarding the refs, 2 odd anecdotes. One, a player twisted her ankle in a pretty big hole. So there was a 12 min delay while the crew spread sand, etc. There was some stoppage time added but not 12 min worth. Ref then blows the whistle three times and players shake hands, pack up and start to head out. But wait. The losing coach convinced the ref that not enough stoppage time was added so he called players back and restarted the match. 15 min later, the match was called for the second time. Did not affect outcome except goal differential.
Two, ref stops a 1v1 breakaway between a forward and a goalie. Turns out there was an injury in the other penalty box. Non head injury, it was a leg. Crazy that the advantage is taken away like that. But worse, for the restart he made the forward pass the drop ball to the goalie. Weird.
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Post by ultimatedad on Sept 4, 2018 20:49:26 GMT -5
Amazing positive weekend for sccl. Despite fields causing injuries,competition that was completely lopsided, coaches told to not "run the score up", a quagmire of mismatched teams,refs that had no idea about injury time, ect. The Sscl had tents and made the parents happy. I heard through the grape vine that there is a hoard of college coaches that can not wait to see who is in this non competative league to see who they should ignore. WAY TO GO Georgia Soccer! DILUTED THE TALENT TILL THE PARENTS HEADS SPIN!
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Post by ultimatedad on Sept 4, 2018 20:51:20 GMT -5
If DA and ECNL and Sscl went away it would be good for parents and kids.
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Post by ultimatedad on Sept 4, 2018 20:51:56 GMT -5
If DA and ECNL and Sscl went away it would be good for parents and kids.
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Post by ultimatedad on Sept 4, 2018 20:54:44 GMT -5
And by the way it is rumored that Tophat will form thier own division in Sccl due to other clubs incompetence.
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Post by soccerloafer on Sept 4, 2018 21:09:33 GMT -5
Dude. Pretty uncalled for. It was a well run inaugural event for a new league. Compared to 4+ years of RPL competitions / events, this was much more reminiscent of RPL 3 years ago v. what it became.
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Post by Goalkeeper Dad on Sept 4, 2018 21:52:56 GMT -5
Think someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed. Scores being run up are you talking about the boys or the girls? On the girl's side there was probably 4-5 games that we're more then a 2 goal difference but were very competitive games. The only major blow out I saw was from girl being tired and the heat getting to them causing stupid fouls that led to free kicks or penatly kicks.
Love to hear what coaches were told not run up the score. Also funny that your attacking Tophat. Don't think the fields that were used are Tophat facilities. Also don't think they were responsible for the refs
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Post by surgesoccer on Sept 5, 2018 8:34:03 GMT -5
There was concern about possible scores being run up and it was mentioned to clubs. This is a new league so no idea from the club on how games would turn out from a competitive stand point. Last year in classic 1 and RPL there were also some lopsided scores as well, but with some prior history it was not a concern.
Ultimate Dad is obviously not at a Big 5 club so there in itself is a reason to hate on the SCCL. But taking what he said point by point:
1. Fields Causing Injury: Can't speak for the Girls fields but the fields the boys played on were immaculate. Far better than I see at most clubs grass fields. No field caused injuries at least at the boys fields.
2. Coaches told not to run up the score: Yes it was said. No issue with it being a new league, asking coaches to play subs more in blowouts. Most coaches likely do that anyway.
3. A Quagmire of mismatched teams. In almost all leagues there is a huge difference between the #1 team and the #8 team. Heck there can be a significant difference between the 3rd ranked team and the 5th ranked team. So yes there were mismatches. Looking at the Boys NPL games played this year from u14 - u17 here are some final scores: 5-0, 5-0, 9-0, 6-0, 6-0 5-0, 4-0, 8-0, 4-0, 4-0, 9-4, and 8-0. I would say NPL appears to have a quagmire of mismatched teams as well. Wait until you see some of the Classic 1 scores this year.
4. Ref's that had no idea of injury times: For the boys the ref's I saw in our 3 games were some of the best ref's I've seen in the last 5 years. But even so getting good ref's is a roll of the dice. Seen good and bad across all levels of soccer (hint Mark Geiger).
5. If DA and ECNL and Sscl went away it would be good for parents and kids: While you're at it let's get rid of NL too. Then all teams are under 1 umbrella. Revamp GA Soccer so that it's not tied to USYS and let them and US Club compete to be the sole sanctioning organization for GA Soccer. There's a lot more I'd like to dive into regarding GA soccer, etc. but that would be a post of its own.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 5, 2018 8:42:04 GMT -5
I'm on record as saying GSP - might be the best grass fields in the city!!
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Sept 5, 2018 8:51:59 GMT -5
I'm on record as saying GSP - might be the best grass fields in the city!! I agree, I just wish they were not located all the way at the Georgia-Florida line, oops I meant on the opposite side of town from where most of the clubs are located.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Sept 5, 2018 9:11:20 GMT -5
And by the way it is rumored that Tophat will form thier own division in Sccl due to other clubs incompetence. You do know that would still keep them in the SCCL and you would still be on the outside looking in munching on Sour Grapes.
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Post by OTPSoccer on Sept 5, 2018 10:48:40 GMT -5
I'm reasonably sure that there is an optimal mousetrap for designing a competitive landscape for every level player in GA and the US. And that there would be no consensus (certainly not from this forum) that the optimal mousetrap was indeed, optimal.
ultimatedad - I can't say that I understand the comment about the lack of college coaches at SCCL matches. The vast majority of these kids won't play college soccer. So be it. I don't think the SCCL parents run around taunting the Classic III/Athena C parents that their kids won't play college level soccer. Yet they are willing to spend the money and time to support an activity that their kids enjoy.
Believe it or not, some parents and kids participate in soccer because they enjoy it. Not because they expect to retire on the profits earned from their professional career. If it stops being fun for you as a parent - or you can't get past your bitterness at the 'unfairness' of it all - then I suggest that you find a better activity to participate in.
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Post by greenmonkey on Sept 5, 2018 14:25:24 GMT -5
And by the way it is rumored that Tophat will form thier own division in Sccl due to other clubs incompetence. So TopHat will form their own TopHat division in SCCL called what the TopHat Division? And they will only play other TopHat teams? In other words TopHat Little Kickers will just go from U4-U19? Why even bother forming this new TopHat division? Just charge people $1500 a year for training and scrimmages! I heard what’s next is TopHat is forming TopHat Univerity it will be a D-1 school and as long as you have only ever played at TopHat you will get a scholarship there. Do you see how redicoulous you sound?!! Anyone who has spent any time at all on the sidelines (EVEN the TOPHAT sidelines) will tell you - There is a level of soccer for everyone who is interested in playing the beautiful game. DA, ECNL, SCCL, NPL, Athena, Select, REC, CLUB, Tops Soccer ... Shhh there is also a college, university, junior college, trade school, continuing education class or career path for everyone who wants ... Shhh there are adult rec leagues, and college clubs, and intermurals, and pickup games for the kids when the grow up too. Shhh some people who played as kids even grow up to be soccer fans and buy tickets to games and support their home town teams. Shhh I’m getting off my soapbox now!
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Sept 5, 2018 15:43:24 GMT -5
And by the way it is rumored that Tophat will form thier own division in Sccl due to other clubs incompetence. So TopHat will form their own TopHat division in SCCL called what the TopHat Division? And they will only play other TopHat teams? In other words TopHat Little Kickers will just go from U4-U19? Why even bother forming this new TopHat division? Just charge people $1500 a year for training and scrimmages! I heard what’s next is TopHat is forming TopHat Univerity it will be a D-1 school and as long as you have only ever played at TopHat you will get a scholarship there. Okay you had me at the D-1 University
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Post by girlsoccer on Sept 6, 2018 6:36:11 GMT -5
And by the way it is rumored that Tophat will form thier own division in Sccl due to other clubs incompetence. So TopHat will form their own TopHat division in SCCL called what the TopHat Division? And they will only play other TopHat teams? In other words TopHat Little Kickers will just go from U4-U19? Why even bother forming this new TopHat division? Just charge people $1500 a year for training and scrimmages! I heard what’s next is TopHat is forming TopHat Univerity it will be a D-1 school and as long as you have only ever played at TopHat you will get a scholarship there. I I think you are on to something with this Tophat University... Let’s talk! 😂
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