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Post by hateallthesechanges on Mar 17, 2019 10:10:43 GMT -5
Curious... is it easy to just get a waiver for DA players to play high school? We played a high school game against a UFA 04 DA player. He is a full time active DA player. Played DA both weekends surrounding the high school game. Is that common? Easy?
Just thinking if it is as simple as getting a waiver, that may change a few people's minds. Especially for all the private schools strongly encouraging school sports participation.
Yes, I realize that many do not want to play high school in addition to DA and the logistics of the practice schedules would be tough. Just curious how often it is "allowed" if desired.
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Post by soccernotfootball on Mar 17, 2019 10:21:46 GMT -5
From my understanding (and this comes from no personal experience)... it is not "easy". I believe in most instances where waivers are granted, it's due to a player requirement for aid/scholarship (typically w/ private schools). Some clubs do not grant waivers at all as policy. It's easier and fairer to just deny across the board rather than make allowances for some vs others.
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Post by hateallthesechanges on Mar 17, 2019 10:30:32 GMT -5
From my understanding (and this comes from no personal experience)... it is not "easy". I believe in most instances where waivers are granted, it's due to a player requirement for aid/scholarship (typically w/ private schools). Some clubs do not grant waivers at all as policy. It's easier and fairer to just deny across the board rather than make allowances for some vs others. That makes sense. This was not a private school. It was a large public high school. The high school does not have him listed on their school website. But he is listed and has highlights on maxpreps.
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Post by soccernotfootball on Mar 17, 2019 10:34:46 GMT -5
From my understanding (and this comes from no personal experience)... it is not "easy". I believe in most instances where waivers are granted, it's due to a player requirement for aid/scholarship (typically w/ private schools). Some clubs do not grant waivers at all as policy. It's easier and fairer to just deny across the board rather than make allowances for some vs others. That makes sense. This was not a private school. It was a large public high school. The high school does not have him listed on their school website. But he is listed and has highlights on maxpreps. Sounds odd... but who knows what's going on there.
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Post by fan on Mar 17, 2019 11:39:03 GMT -5
There’s a girl from one of the UFA DA teams that plays for her public high school.
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Post by soccernotfootball on Mar 17, 2019 11:55:04 GMT -5
Waivers have to be granted by the league office. Rules state: "The waiver eligibility guidelines are as follows: Players who receive consideration or financial aid to attend a private high school based on their participation with the soccer team are eligible."
Take that as you will...
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Post by oldboy on Mar 17, 2019 15:09:42 GMT -5
Waivers are very rare. What is much more common is kids playing some high school games without telling their club. Lots of high school coaches encourage that. Not sure it says a lot for the coach’s character, but it happens a lot.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Mar 17, 2019 16:18:48 GMT -5
Waivers are like the golden ticket and are very difficult to get. It is usually only given in consideration for financial-aid related reasons as soccernotfootball stated. However, I think in this case, it may be what oldboy stated. A case of the DA player/family usurping the rules and just playing HS ball. They better be careful that US Soccer doesn't find out. I believe last year Weston FC almost got their hand slapped after they looked the other way on this particular issue too...FG
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Post by GameOfThrow-ins on Mar 17, 2019 16:35:09 GMT -5
I know for a fact of one U14 boys DA team that allows their kids to play school ball. Don’t know if the club knows but the coach does. A parent said the reasoning is that if they didn’t allow it they’d lose all their best players to the club across the street that rhymes with TOGA. Most probably no “waivers” involved.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Mar 17, 2019 18:53:50 GMT -5
IMO USSF DA needs to change their position to "recommends against playing school ball." It's a stupid line on the sand to draw. If it's this much of an issue where kids are skirting your rules quite often to play with their friends, do you really want to lose players to it punish clubs for it?
Change that and the subbing rules below U19 and no one has much to complain about.
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Post by GameOfThrow-ins on Mar 17, 2019 19:07:32 GMT -5
Nothing needs to change. Just play high school when you’re a senior. Don’t change sub rules either. You have to be able to play the whole game. Subs need to earn it or keep riding the pine.
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Post by mistergrinch on Mar 18, 2019 9:19:53 GMT -5
Nothing needs to change. Just play high school when you’re a senior. Don’t change sub rules either. You have to be able to play the whole game. Subs need to earn it or keep riding the pine. No - if it's really about 'development' the sub rules need to change. It's not EPL, it's DEVELOPMENT academy.
Sitting on the bench does no player any good. At the very least, go by college sub rules.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 18, 2019 9:40:27 GMT -5
Nothing needs to change. Just play high school when you’re a senior. Don’t change sub rules either. You have to be able to play the whole game. Subs need to earn it or keep riding the pine. No - if it's really about 'development' the sub rules need to change. It's not EPL, it's DEVELOPMENT academy.
Sitting on the bench does no player any good. At the very least, go by college sub rules.
I think they can make the sub rules a bit of a hybrid between ECNL/ NPL sub rules and the current DA sub rules. The players need time on the field to develop appropriately but I do hate it when teams sub one person at a time every 2-3 minutes. It interrupts the flow of the game. So allow one reentry (I actually think the second reentry in college is stupid), but limit the number of substitution "events" like they currently do. Now, for ALL leagues there should be an exception for allowing a reentry if all subs are used and a trained medical professional (athletic trainer on site) deems it unsafe for an athlete to continue after an injury, ESPECIALLY a concussion. These are still kids and their health is very important. No kid should be forced to choose between their well being and leaving their team to play a man down.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Mar 18, 2019 10:34:31 GMT -5
Regarding the waivers and the rule...why have the rule if you know people are going to break it and not punish them when they do. You're punishing those who actually follow the rules. The others...fortune seems to favor the bold/rule-breakers.
ECNL sub rules are fine, especially for players under U16 (these are kids we're talking about). 18 players on the game roster, each can be in once per half. A smart coach lets everyone on their team play. There's no way a coach spaces all subs out so you have 7 substitutions per half, or your starters would see diminished playing time. Most subs start around the 15-20 minute mark. Our coach makes all subs around the 20-25 minute mark of each game, it works well. At U19 (possibly even U17), pro rules should apply. Exhaustion leads to bad decisions, which can lead to risky play and injuries. Maybe even vary it up by age group. U13-U15, sub once per half. U16-U17 sub once per game (up to 6, international friendlies rules). U19 sub 3 per game. A big part of development is managing the pressure of a game, where winning matters. Scrimmages are not the best simulation, not even friendlies, because in the end they don't matter. The players know it, the coaches know it (only the backups will try their hardest). If you coast through a whole game and don't feel the pressure when you're down a goal with 5 minutes to go, you're not a player a coach can trust. Same goes for a player who panics when the pressure is on and makes a lot of mistakes. You can correct those behaviors, but you have to see it enough to know what they will do.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Mar 18, 2019 11:18:08 GMT -5
for the younger age group u13s and u14s, there is no doubt that injuries should NOT count as a moment. Also any time there is a long delay in the game for an injury for example, coaches should be allowed to sub without it counting as a moment also, the game is already stopped, its not delaying the game more.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Mar 18, 2019 12:34:06 GMT -5
I know for a fact of one U14 boys DA team that allows their kids to play school ball. Don’t know if the club knows but the coach does. A parent said the reasoning is that if they didn’t allow it they’d lose all their best players to the club across the street that rhymes with TOGA. Most probably no “waivers” involved. I'll spell it out since you didn't want to name names, you are basically saying the parents of the AFC U14 Boys DA team are telling the coach that either we get to play High School / Middle School Soccer or we walk to MOBA? Going by how bad the AFC gold team is below the DA team is at that age it sounds like the coach really has no choice if he wants a competitive DA team, but honestly is that even that much of a threat? I mean MOBA isn't this "shining city on the hill" either. They have no DA, and they basically have teams that are either in Classic I or Classic II. That is a big step down from playing DA or NPL honestly. I think I still know a few of the U14's over there at AFC that used to play with my son in SSA before the age group change. Some of those parents would absolutely threaten that.
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Post by cantgetright on Mar 18, 2019 13:04:00 GMT -5
I think everyone should worry about their kid and not others. Really who cares except nosy parents. My son plays DA and does not play high school. With that said, I have seen some DA players playing high school, but then again who cares. Live and let live as long as they are not affecting you, then who cares. If a coach catches someone, again who cares.
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Post by olderthandirt on Mar 18, 2019 13:35:49 GMT -5
There's the attitude that we need to be teaching our children: it's OK to break an agreement as long as you don't get caught.
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Post by soccernotfootball on Mar 18, 2019 13:37:51 GMT -5
I think everyone should worry about their kid and not others. Really who cares except nosy parents. My son plays DA and does not play high school. With that said, I have seen some DA players playing high school, but then again who cares. Live and let live as long as they are not affecting you, then who cares. If a coach catches someone, again who cares. Why follow any of the rules at all?
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Post by olderthandirt on Mar 18, 2019 13:49:13 GMT -5
I think everyone should worry about their kid and not others. Really who cares except nosy parents. My son plays DA and does not play high school. With that said, I have seen some DA players playing high school, but then again who cares. Live and let live as long as they are not affecting you, then who cares. If a coach catches someone, again who cares. Why follow any of the rules at all? A great screen name for the person with this attitude just occurred to me: socceranarchist. Then we'd all know exactly where the poster is coming from.
First come / first served. You're welcome.
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Post by soccerfanga on Mar 18, 2019 15:13:42 GMT -5
There’s a girl from one of the UFA DA teams that plays for her public high school. If your talking about the girl on the Lassiter team, she quit DA in the fall, thanks for investigating.
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Post by thisonedude on Mar 18, 2019 15:46:40 GMT -5
In checking the FAQs regarding outside activities/competition on the US soccer DA website, no mention is made of a waiver process. Does such a process really exist?
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Post by soccernotfootball on Mar 18, 2019 17:59:52 GMT -5
In checking the FAQs regarding outside activities/competition on the US soccer DA website, no mention is made of a waiver process. Does such a process really exist? Yes. For private school.
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Post by fan on Mar 18, 2019 21:08:35 GMT -5
There’s a girl from one of the UFA DA teams that plays for her public high school. If your talking about the girl on the Lassiter team, she quit DA in the fall, thanks for investigating. I don't intend to call out a specific girl. I just assumed UFA was open to waivers in some situations. Or it is possible that she quit after playing DA through the fall. I'm not familiar with Lassiter's players. This is another school.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Mar 19, 2019 8:37:52 GMT -5
It probably happens a lot more than people want to admit.
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Post by mistergrinch on Mar 19, 2019 9:00:45 GMT -5
I think everyone should worry about their kid and not others. Really who cares except nosy parents. My son plays DA and does not play high school. With that said, I have seen some DA players playing high school, but then again who cares. Live and let live as long as they are not affecting you, then who cares. If a coach catches someone, again who cares. ..and when the kid gets hacked and injured playing rec.. er.. HS soccer and is missing games and affecting the DA team's play in the league - is that really fair to the rest of the team? DA level players KNOW going in that it's a sacrifice. You're not going to get as much time with your friends or to do things for your school.. but here it's OK for some to say 'I got mine, screw you' now while others are actually sacrificing?
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Post by SoccerMom on Mar 19, 2019 9:29:23 GMT -5
There’s a girl from one of the UFA DA teams that plays for her public high school. What age group? UFA doesn't allow it. Unless you mean a DP and not a FT
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Post by SoccerMom on Mar 19, 2019 9:32:32 GMT -5
Waivers are like the golden ticket and are very difficult to get. It is usually only given in consideration for financial-aid related reasons as soccernotfootball stated. However, I think in this case, it may be what oldboy stated. A case of the DA player/family usurping the rules and just playing HS ball. They better be careful that US Soccer doesn't find out. I believe last year Weston FC almost got their hand slapped after they looked the other way on this particular issue too...FG It was more than a hand slap....that coach is no longer there. He coaches at Inter now
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Post by thisonedude on Mar 19, 2019 9:54:57 GMT -5
Waivers are like the golden ticket and are very difficult to get. It is usually only given in consideration for financial-aid related reasons as soccernotfootball stated. However, I think in this case, it may be what oldboy stated. A case of the DA player/family usurping the rules and just playing HS ball. They better be careful that US Soccer doesn't find out. I believe last year Weston FC almost got their hand slapped after they looked the other way on this particular issue too...FG It was more than a hand slap....that coach is no longer there. He coaches at Inter now So, given all of these implications, is UFA aware?
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Mar 19, 2019 10:08:48 GMT -5
Waivers are like the golden ticket and are very difficult to get. It is usually only given in consideration for financial-aid related reasons as soccernotfootball stated. However, I think in this case, it may be what oldboy stated. A case of the DA player/family usurping the rules and just playing HS ball. They better be careful that US Soccer doesn't find out. I believe last year Weston FC almost got their hand slapped after they looked the other way on this particular issue too...FG It was more than a hand slap....that coach is no longer there. He coaches at Inter now True, I was referring to the club as a whole. The punishment put forth initially by US Soccer was them losing a year of DA with the affected boys n team...FG
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