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Post by 04gparent on Jun 6, 2019 7:53:23 GMT -5
04gparent - Yes, it's always personal when you are talking about your daughter. Especially during the teenage years when it's already a difficult time for them. As a parent, it's important to preserve, and build self esteem - not constantly chip away at it. Sure, kids come from other clubs, and lose spots to those players - that's any competitive sport. It's the TH culture that I'm specifically referring to. ECNL and DA - I know I can't change that. But again, in other clubs - there's the idea of having actual conversations with families and finding out what they want for their kids. Check out this article where this SCAL team has the novel of asking families what they want (“WE LISTENED TO OUR FAMILIES. ECNL IS A BETTER FIT FOR US.”) www.soccernation.com/the-da-debate-continues-it-wasnt-a-good-fit-slammers-fc/ Not ever was there transparency or conversations about TH being dropped from ECNL, or about the DPL. It was rumored by other parents, clubs, but no official word from TH. If you dare inquired about what was going on, your phone calls and emails went unanswered. As a business, when you are collecting thousands of $$$ from families, and they entrust you with their kids - it is your responsibility to have conversations, and transparency - not simply hide behind the team mom. For real. We learned about being dropped from ENCL and picking up DPL just one week before tryouts. Again, it's a culture that does not put kids or families first. And this was definitely not my experience at other clubs (this goes not only for soccer - but baseball, lacrosse, football, volleyball) While the TH training is good, the environment is not, and I realized this very shortly after being there. Once our year contract was fulfilled, we left (with many others) and were offered spots on 2 ECNL teams. We decided on the team we felt was a better fit. I was amazed at how easy it was to talk to other coaches and get real honest feedback from them. In short, I did not listen to anyone who told me not to go to TH, I've done my time there, and now I feel it's my civic responsibility to pass the torch about the experience from the inside - just like Johnny Cash in Folsom Prison  Happy your child has a good spot. I am fortunate to be friends with parents of girls at multiple clubs. I have heard the similar stories multiple times all over Atlanta. I am not condoning your experience. Academy to select years are tough. It will be interesting to see how the soccer landscape continues to evolve in Atlanta over the next couple of years. |
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Post by soccerlegacy on Jun 6, 2019 8:59:37 GMT -5
I agree that there are good coaches and bad coaches at every club. The only difference I have personally seen and experienced with our time at NTH is that the coaches don't talk to parents and they have extremely poor communication. I've been told by many parents at NTH that they have a rule about only talking to the kids and not the parents. There were many reasons we eventually left NTH, but that was right there at the top of the list. To me that is ridiculous and IMHO helps create this culture everyone has been discussing. Adults should talk to adults, instead of hiding behind a kid. I know some will say that the parents are unreasonable and you should leave the soccer to the coaches, but to me that is just an excuse. There are many, many parents that are level-headed, rational parents that can hold a conversation about their kids with the coach. This would help to bridge the gap of what the coach is trying to communicate to the child.
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DPL
Jun 6, 2019 9:17:41 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Goalkeeper Dad on Jun 6, 2019 9:17:41 GMT -5
I agree that there are good coaches and bad coaches at every club. The only difference I have personally seen and experienced with our time at NTH is that the coaches don't talk to parents and they have extremely poor communication. I've been told by many parents at NTH that they have a rule about only talking to the kids and not the parents. There were many reasons we eventually left NTH, but that was right there at the top of the list. To me that is ridiculous and IMHO helps create this culture everyone has been discussing. Adults should talk to adults, instead of hiding behind a kid. I know some will say that the parents are unreasonable and you should leave the soccer to the coaches, but to me that is just an excuse. There are many, many parents that are level-headed, rational parents that can hold a conversation about their kids with the coach. This would help to bridge the gap of what the coach is trying to communicate to the child. I do agree with you on coaches having to reach out to the parents, but I can also see the other side. I think at a certain age kids need to start learning to stand on their own 2 feet and know that as they get older mom and dad won't be their for them. I know when I coached I told the kids and had the parents come to me after they talked to their child. Granted this may have been wrong but I was trying to teach the kids some small life lessons. Kids need to learn how to communicate face to face and not by text. I wanted them to know it just wasn't their mom and dad that was invested in their success on the field and off. Did parents and kids hate me, yes but a large majority of them came back to me and said thank you and told me they hated me at the time but now they understood. I am willing to bet if parents talked to coaches about other things then soccer they would learn these coaches do really care and are there because they care and want your kid to be successful in life Bobby Knight, Bill Bellick, Bill Purcells, Nick Saban are all SOB's but if you ask 95% of their players and parents they would all run through a brick wall for them, and that all they care about. It all about the inner circle forgot about the background noise. Yes they are all rich well know coaches but remember they all got their start teaching preteens |
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Post by hattrick07 on Jun 6, 2019 10:02:33 GMT -5
I agree that there are good coaches and bad coaches at every club. The only difference I have personally seen and experienced with our time at NTH is that the coaches don't talk to parents and they have extremely poor communication. I've been told by many parents at NTH that they have a rule about only talking to the kids and not the parents. There were many reasons we eventually left NTH, but that was right there at the top of the list. To me that is ridiculous and IMHO helps create this culture everyone has been discussing. Adults should talk to adults, instead of hiding behind a kid. I know some will say that the parents are unreasonable and you should leave the soccer to the coaches, but to me that is just an excuse. There are many, many parents that are level-headed, rational parents that can hold a conversation about their kids with the coach. This would help to bridge the gap of what the coach is trying to communicate to the child. I do agree with you on coaches having to reach out to the parents, but I can also see the other side. I think at a certain age kids need to start learning to stand on their own 2 feet and know that as they get older mom and dad won't be their for them. I know when I coached I told the kids and had the parents come to me after they talked to their child. Granted this may have been wrong but I was trying to teach the kids some small life lessons. Kids need to learn how to communicate face to face and not by text. I wanted them to know it just wasn't their mom and dad that was invested in their success on the field and off. Did parents and kids hate me, yes but a large majority of them came back to me and said thank you and told me they hated me at the time but now they understood. I am willing to bet if parents talked to coaches about other things then soccer they would learn these coaches do really care and are there because they care and want your kid to be successful in life Bobby Knight, Bill Bellick, Bill Purcells, Nick Saban are all SOB's but if you ask 95% of their players and parents they would all run through a brick wall for them, and that all they care about. It all about the inner circle forgot about the background noise. Yes they are all rich well know coaches but remember they all got their start teaching preteens |
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Post by soccerfan30 on Jun 6, 2019 10:06:55 GMT -5
I do agree with you on coaches having to reach out to the parents, but I can also see the other side. I think at a certain age kids need to start learning to stand on their own 2 feet and know that as they get older mom and dad won't be their for them. I know when I coached I told the kids and had the parents come to me after they talked to their child. Granted this may have been wrong but I was trying to teach the kids some small life lessons. Kids need to learn how to communicate face to face and not by text. I wanted them to know it just wasn't their mom and dad that was invested in their success on the field and off. Did parents and kids hate me, yes but a large majority of them came back to me and said thank you and told me they hated me at the time but now they understood. I am willing to bet if parents talked to coaches about other things then soccer they would learn these coaches do really care and are there because they care and want your kid to be successful in life Bobby Knight, Bill Bellick, Bill Purcells, Nick Saban are all SOB's but if you ask 95% of their players and parents they would all run through a brick wall for them, and that all they care about. It all about the inner circle forgot about the background noise. Yes they are all rich well know coaches but remember they all got their start teaching preteens Well said- show me a coach that has won something of value and they are all tough Pat Summitt once said it's better for a coach to start tough and become easier than being soft and then trying to become tougher |
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Post by girlsoccer on Jun 6, 2019 10:16:16 GMT -5
Well said- show me a coach that has won something of value and they are all tough Pat Summitt once said it's better for a coach to start tough and become easier than being soft and then trying to become tougher There is a difference. There are tough and demanding coaches who respect their players and have that respect reciprocated. And there are narcissistic bullies who demean, abuse, and threaten under the guise of being “tough”. Not the same thing. In the first scenario kids thrive. In the second scenario they lose their love of the game and either quit or go into survival mode. |
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Post by lovethisgame on Jun 6, 2019 10:22:38 GMT -5
Well said- show me a coach that has won something of value and they are all tough Pat Summitt once said it's better for a coach to start tough and become easier than being soft and then trying to become tougher There is a difference. There are tough and demanding coaches who respect their players and have that respect reciprocated. And there are narcissistic bullies who demean, abuse, and threaten under the guise of being “tough”. Not the same thing. In the first scenario kids thrive. In the second scenario they lose their love of the game and either quit or go into survival mode. |
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Post by hattrick07 on Jun 6, 2019 10:25:53 GMT -5
100% agree that kids should be able to ask questions and have face-to-face conversations with teachers, coaches, adults. I also understand that there are crazy parents - I've seen them, and been on the same team with them. However, I don't think it's unreasonable to want an honest evaluation of your child's strengths and weaknesses/areas for improvement, or to answer questions about different leagues, or logistics of the coming season. Again, the experience I had when reaching out to other coaches from different clubs, was the polar opposite - I received responses with an hour.
Some relationships are just healthier than others. I guess it's all up to the individual as to what is acceptable to them, and what is not. I want to teach my kids that it's okay to end a toxic relationship - no matter how popular, rich, or famous they might be.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jun 6, 2019 10:28:47 GMT -5
Did you ever watch the HBO special on tenn and Patt Summitt, she was brutal, man was she tough on the girls.
I think in youth sports you need a mixture of both, toughness and being stern when it came to implementation of the rules but also a little bit of looseness to ensure the kids were having fun and were free to express themselves on the pitch. Coaches are educators, role models and in some cases quasi parents - there has to be fine balance.
I always tell my kids you will remember every teacher you have/had and you remember every coach you have had.
A coaches impact on a child's life is priceless.
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DPL
Jun 6, 2019 10:29:01 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Goalkeeper Dad on Jun 6, 2019 10:29:01 GMT -5
Well said- show me a coach that has won something of value and they are all tough Pat Summitt once said it's better for a coach to start tough and become easier than being soft and then trying to become tougher There is a difference. There are tough and demanding coaches who respect their players and have that respect reciprocated. And there are narcissistic bullies who demean, abuse, and threaten under the guise of being “tough”. Not the same thing. In the first scenario kids thrive. In the second scenario they lose their love of the game and either quit or go into survival mode. Agreed but then you have guys like Paul Bear Bryant who gets a road and a stadium named after him. Not saying it is right, we need to do what is right for us and our children. I know I would probably be right there with you if this was happening to my child. But again I would have a conversation with the coach. Trust me if it came down to my kid he/ she would know exactly where they stand, and I am sure there are many parents that are on here have done that. If not shame on you. |
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Post by lovethisgame on Jun 6, 2019 10:30:15 GMT -5
There is a difference. There are tough and demanding coaches who respect their players and have that respect reciprocated. And there are narcissistic bullies who demean, abuse, and threaten under the guise of being “tough”. Not the same thing. In the first scenario kids thrive. In the second scenario they lose their love of the game and either quit or go into survival mode. This is spot on. You can be tough and demanding to get the best out of players. But there is a huge difference when tactics are used to humiliate, demean, degrade, and threaten players. It is not acceptable for any adult in a power situation to do that to a child. Some may try to justify it, but there is a name for this and it is straight up abuse. “Verbal abuse is when a person forcefully criticizes, insults, or denounces someone else. Characterized by underlying anger and hostility, it is a destructive form of communication intended to harm the self-concept of the other person and produce negative emotions. Wikipedia” |
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Post by soccerfan30 on Jun 6, 2019 10:35:04 GMT -5
Well said- show me a coach that has won something of value and they are all tough Pat Summitt once said it's better for a coach to start tough and become easier than being soft and then trying to become tougher There is a difference. There are tough and demanding coaches who respect their players and have that respect reciprocated. And there are narcissistic bullies who demean, abuse, and threaten under the guise of being “tough”. Not the same thing. In the first scenario kids thrive. In the second scenario they lose their love of the game and either quit or go into survival mode. Of course but many parents want to shield their kids from ALL adversity, failures and obstacles. Kids struggling in school? Must be the teachers fault. Kids not playing enough? Must be the coaches fault. Many parents absolve their kids of any responsibility and that is much more prevalent at certain clubs especially ones in more affluent areas. Often times I've made my players run for being disrespectful to me or goofing off at practice, kid goes home and tells mom or dad they had to run with no context. They don't even ask me about it, just complain that I'm being "too tough", I'm not one of those coaches that is described in some of the instances above but I'm not there to coach a players effort either. There has to be standards/expectations and players have to held accountable to those standards....that's being tough. I ask my girls all the time "what would your parents say if you brought home a report card with all C's ?" They say they would be grounded, have their phones taken away, etc. My reply is "your parents expect A/B grades and I expect A/B level effort at practice." |
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DPL
Jun 6, 2019 10:41:14 GMT -5
Post by hattrick07 on Jun 6, 2019 10:41:14 GMT -5
There is a difference. There are tough and demanding coaches who respect their players and have that respect reciprocated. And there are narcissistic bullies who demean, abuse, and threaten under the guise of being “tough”. Not the same thing. In the first scenario kids thrive. In the second scenario they lose their love of the game and either quit or go into survival mode. Of course but many parents want to shield their kids from ALL adversity, failures and obstacles. Kids struggling in school? Must be the teachers fault. Kids not playing enough? Must be the coaches fault. Many parents absolve their kids of any responsibility and that is much more prevalent at certain clubs especially ones in more affluent areas. Often times I've made my players run for being disrespectful to me or goofing off at practice, kid goes home and tells mom or dad they had to run with no context. They don't even ask me about it, just complain that I'm being "too tough", I'm not one of those coaches that is described in some of the instances above but I'm not there to coach a players effort either. There has to be standards/expectations and players have to held accountable to those standards....that's being tough. I ask my girls all the time "what would your parents say if you brought home a report card with all C's ?" They say they would be grounded, have their phones taken away, etc. My reply is "your parents expect A/B grades and I expect A/B level effort at practice." |
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Post by Goalkeeper Dad on Jun 6, 2019 10:50:50 GMT -5
There is a difference. There are tough and demanding coaches who respect their players and have that respect reciprocated. And there are narcissistic bullies who demean, abuse, and threaten under the guise of being “tough”. Not the same thing. In the first scenario kids thrive. In the second scenario they lose their love of the game and either quit or go into survival mode. Of course but many parents want to shield their kids from ALL adversity, failures and obstacles. Kids struggling in school? Must be the teachers fault. Kids not playing enough? Must be the coaches fault. Many parents absolve their kids of any responsibility and that is much more prevalent at certain clubs especially ones in more affluent areas. Often times I've made my players run for being disrespectful to me or goofing off at practice, kid goes home and tells mom or dad they had to run with no context. They don't even ask me about it, just complain that I'm being "too tough", I'm not one of those coaches that is described in some of the instances above but I'm not there to coach a players effort either. There has to be standards/expectations and players have to held accountable to those standards....that's being tough. I ask my girls all the time "what would your parents say if you brought home a report card with all C's ?" They say they would be grounded, have their phones taken away, etc. My reply is "your parents expect A/B grades and I expect A/B level effort at practice." I agree with everything that was said here but afraid to say. I will also add on more point. Even when we had the perfect practice in my mind I always came up with a negative. The reason why is I wanted my kids to know their is never perfection and there is always something to get better at. Never be complacent with what you have. Like the famous philosopher Rocky Balboa once said "One more round" |
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Post by hattrick07 on Jun 6, 2019 11:20:44 GMT -5
soccerfan30 - I believe failure, adversity and obstacles help kids learn and grow. So no, I'm not looking to have my kids live in a bubble. Tough is okay. Strict is okay. High Expectations are okay. Pushing them is okay. Being treated badly by their coaches, teachers, boyfriends, friends is definitely not okay. This behavior is not new to sports - my father played for Walt Kiesling, who was described as the biggest SOB my dad had ever met. After grueling practices, the coach would tell the team to get water, only to learn he'd put oats in their water bottles. Kiesling also cut Jonny Unitas during pre-season camp - one of the best quarterbacks of all-time. Yet, this coach was still a hall of famer. My father decided to leave the team - not because he was weak, because he chose not to put up with the BS. Again, it's up to the individual as to what is acceptable. I'm not projecting this on to you, as I'm sure you're a nice guy. This is forum is for sharing experiences and opinions – and this comes from a rational, non bat-sh*t crazy parent
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Post by Goalkeeper Dad on Jun 6, 2019 11:32:32 GMT -5
soccerfan30 - I believe failure, adversity and obstacles help kids learn and grow. So no, I'm not looking to have my kids live in a bubble. Tough is okay. Strict is okay. High Expectations are okay. Pushing them is okay. Being treated badly by their coaches, teachers, boyfriends, friends is definitely not okay. This behavior is not new to sports - my father played for Walt Kiesling, who was described as the biggest SOB my dad had ever met. After grueling practices, the coach would tell the team to get water, only to learn he'd put oats in their water bottles. Kiesling also cut Jonny Unitas during pre-season camp - one of the best quarterbacks of all-time. Yet, this coach was still a hall of famer. My father decided to leave the team - not because he was weak, because he chose not to put up with the BS. Again, it's up to the individual as to what is acceptable. I'm not projecting this on to you, as I'm sure you're a nice guy. This is forum is for sharing experiences and opinions – and this comes from a rational, non bat-sh*t crazy parent Please you are bat s$&t crazy and irrational like all of us. Just joking, wanting to lighten the mood up. But until are kids are done with youth sports we will all have bat craziness in us. It is up to us as parents to keep as low as possible. Good luck to you and your child this year, I wish nothing but success unless your playing my daughter's team. Lol |
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Post by sanesoccerdad on Jun 6, 2019 13:13:46 GMT -5
Lots of passion on this thread.
I would just add that there is a difference between expecting the kids to manage through adversity once they are on a team and expecting them to navigate the bizarrely political world of tryouts. At 13, kids aren’t mature enough to understand all the dynamics at play in who a coach/club picks. If it were just about talent/performance maybe, but we all know that lots of other things go into these decisions. Heck, I have seen elections with less politics than some of these soccer squads.
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Post by lovethisgame on Jun 6, 2019 15:30:26 GMT -5
Let’s remember that academy players are pre-pubescent girls going through a lot physical changes, as well as emotional and social changes. They are not adults. It is our job as parents to guide and model positive and healthy relationships. A pre-teen might interpret or internalize it as: It’s ok for him/her to abuse me because “I made a mistake so it’s my fault”, or “I’m not good enough so I deserve the abuse”. Maybe an extreme example but when adults choose to look the other way, it breeds a culture that allows predators to prey. Just look at USA gymnastics and Penn state.
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