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Post by zizou on May 20, 2014 10:19:04 GMT -5
I had broached this subject in a previous thread about the UFA-Norcross merger. For both of these clubs, at least in recent history, they have had only modest success in getting girls to high level college soccer. Why is this? They have lots of players, they have ODP players at younger ages (so not lacking in quality), and top few academy level teams in most age groups seem to start out pretty strong. Is it a development problem as the girls move to Select? Best players leave for ECNL clubs and/or teams they perceive as having better shot at RPL? Is it anticipated that the merger will help with this in some way? Let me be clear that I am not knocking these clubs, but am really curious how this has happened given what I see from these teams on field at younger ages.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2014 22:01:56 GMT -5
I think this will change. Ufa's 12s and 13s are very strong. I know NSA was losing top players to ecnl clubs. Many quality players stuck around, but players also left. The have good coaches coaching the top teams. I see many positives in the new UFAs future. It is too bad, that ecnl is a small group now. The current 13s is a competitive group.
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Post by zizou on May 22, 2014 6:30:42 GMT -5
So it sounds like you think the merger will help in this regard, but how? For instance, SSA is a giant conglomerate that forms elite teams across locations, but you would also not say they are more successful than the ECNL clubs at getting girls to top soccer programs. Is ECNL the main determining factor? If you are not Tophat, that is.
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Post by Soccerhouse on May 22, 2014 7:19:39 GMT -5
true, but i think ufa has a much better pipeline of girls and girls talent. ufa is a young club, i look for them to make some noise on the girls side. I do think ECNL is unfortunately a big factor though, they have created an environment where a lot of the top players in the country are on ecnl teams. Tophat is unique, being an all girls club and somewhat centrally located where it can attract top talent from all over the city. they also travel the country and win, i think that is a big part of it as well. its one thing to go to the showcase tourneys, its another to bring home the hardware. personally, looking at some of the current encl teams, i think this city can support another 2 squads -- but it sounds like getting into ECNL at this point will require a zombie apocalypse.
i'm still amazed ecnl only has 2 teams in florida - doesn't make sense
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Post by zizou on May 23, 2014 7:30:25 GMT -5
personally, looking at some of the current encl teams, i think this city can support another 2 squads -- but it sounds like getting into ECNL at this point will require a zombie apocalypse. i'm still amazed ecnl only has 2 teams in florida - doesn't make sense How do you see this? Of the three ECNL clubs, only Concorde Fire show any level of competitiveness across age groups. GSA is about a .500 club across age groups, and AFU is at Birmingham United level of futility across age groups. I see this and think ECNL would be foolish to put another team in Georgia at the present time. But I very well could be missing something. The only reason another team might work is if they believed the best girls from other clubs just will not go to AFU, for instance, even with the ECNL carrot. But that does not say much for the alleged allure of ECNL. I do agree on the Florida thing. Florida would seem to deserve another franchise before Georgia. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on May 23, 2014 8:25:11 GMT -5
zizou, its funny you say that, because that was the same thing said about DA with the boys, atlanta cannot support a 3rd team, not enough talent. i think your right thought, why does atl need another team when on paper concorde is the only one with success. i'm sure unless your a stud, its hard to crack into those older encl teams. girls have probably been together since they were 9s.
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Post by lovethegame on May 27, 2014 16:06:57 GMT -5
true, but i think ufa has a much better pipeline of girls and girls talent. ufa is a young club, i look for them to make some noise on the girls side. I do think ECNL is unfortunately a big factor though, they have created an environment where a lot of the top players in the country are on ecnl teams. Tophat is unique, being an all girls club and somewhat centrally located where it can attract top talent from all over the city. they also travel the country and win, i think that is a big part of it as well. its one thing to go to the showcase tourneys, its another to bring home the hardware. personally, looking at some of the current encl teams, i think this city can support another 2 squads -- but it sounds like getting into ECNL at this point will require a zombie apocalypse. i'm still amazed ecnl only has 2 teams in florida - doesn't make sense I do believe we will see another Florida ECNL club or two in the not too distant future. But, one of the two that came into ECNL two years ago has had a really rocky start. My guess is that ECNL is looking to stabilize that club before expanding any further in Florida. WFF has done well for a new club, but OCYS has struggled. There was a a merger between two clubs to gain access to ECNL, but less than a year later the club split and players followed the side they were loyal to. I don't know the story about the split, but all you have to do is read a bit of the Talking Soccer Florida site, and you will see there is still so much animosity a whole year later. |
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Post by dreaddy on May 28, 2014 9:43:15 GMT -5
One of the things with ECNL is that it is club based. Soccer in Florida is more team based than club based, thus the lack of ECNL interest.
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Post by jack4343 on Jun 7, 2014 12:54:47 GMT -5
Well, I can add a few thoughts here and there regarding NSA and losing top girls talent. From my own experience with the club (over 9 years and counting), the politics from the parents can run rampant a bit and the fact that they tend to keep coaches with the same girls (even as they move from academy to select), tends to favor the same top teams in each age group, leaving girls on the lower teams to fester on the vine so to speak. Some of these girls are late bloomers and even though their skill sets improve, they rarely get a 2nd look from the elite coaches which leads to them to leave NSA and go on to bigger and better things elsewhere. I know of at least one prime example of this and I'm sure there are more of them considering the fact that I'm not the only one thinking this. (as the created thread proves) I'd like to think that this changes as more UFA coaches blend in with the current staff at NSA. I am optimistic as I have heard very good things about these coaches.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jun 8, 2014 10:01:28 GMT -5
how long a coach stays with a team is very difficult. exposure to many coaches at the youth level is definitely beneficial. however, sometimes you just have a special team with a special coach, and that bond shouldn't be broken.
with older kids, u13 and above, usually you don't realize its time for a change until mid way through the season etc. kids aren't responding anymore, the connection isn't there and a change needs to be made.
that being said, regardless of who is coaching teams 1 to 3, its all about exposure. if you think your kid deserves a shot on that 2nd team, speak to the coach and ask if he/she can train with them 1 extra day a week. some coaches are rude and say no, but most good clubs the coaches will say sure and if it doesn't work out, expect an honest answer. same is true with a top team from a 2nd team. its tough to crack into, some teams have a core group that have been together since they were u9s. some don't deserve to be there, but thats the hard part, to take their spot you have to be better, and not just as good.
lastly, many clubs top teams train more hours during the week than other teams. keep in mind if you child is training 2 days week for example, and the top players are training 3 days week, you have to find away to get them more time touching the ball.
remember a lot of top players train 3 days week, often have 1 extra session during the week with private sessions or pickup soccer games etc.
but it is hard to move up the ladder, but get your kid exposed to as many coaches as possible at your club, take advantage of extra sessions, try to get them to train with better teams/players. at good clubs, the coaches talk alot!
this happened on my son's team this year, 2 to 3 second team players were upset and thought they should play on the top team. so, our coach being a good coach, said sure they can train with us on thursdays. Well, the kids struggled to keep up and it hurt them more than helped them. the speed of play can be drastically different between top and 2nd teams, especially at the younger ages. with girls its not quite as much a gap, but still there. decisions have to be made much quicker.
it can be done, one of my kids started playing a year late, so she started on a terrible 3rd team. (it was fine, girls had fun, all became buds, just wasn't very good soccer, but that is expected, all new academy players at the time). she worked hard, and progressed mentally and became very technical on the ball. As she was getting better, you could see other players flat lining or getting worse, she took advantage of this and went to a 2nd team, then top team, and now is probably a top 5 player on that team. i'm not saying this came easy, she worked hard, trained extra days with top team, went to camps, went to privates, played in the yard, juggled on her own, kicked against a wall, did super y etc, went from middle school practice to club training, played sometimes 5 games a week.
my only new rule is my kids get july off!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2014 9:52:05 GMT -5
i think @socceradmin hit the nail on the head!
to take a kids spot on a higher team, you have to be better than them, not equal
or
show them something special - work ethic, dedication, touch, something that a coach see's that makes him say i want that child on my roster for this attribute.
I looked over the norcross coaching list, I'm not an expert with Norcross, but quick checking shows
that of their u9-u14 girls coaches, I believe only 1 coach from their top teams kept the teams for next year. So lots of changes and as the admin says, you always need to expose your kid to as many coaches as possible. Unfortunately, new coaches also means, that tryouts can be more important than usual. Coaches will have kids they have flagged that have a chance to move up, they will put those kids with certain players to see what they can do. For example put a 3rd team player with a top team, to see if they can deliver the ball to space, beat players 1v1, make simple passes for combination play. It sucks, but sometimes a bad night can seal their fate. its terrible given the kids have been with the club for the entire year or longer, but some coaches just haven't seen the kids play. they rely also a lot on the notes from the previous coach.
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