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Post by rifle on Jul 25, 2019 5:49:02 GMT -5
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Post by atv on Jul 25, 2019 6:14:12 GMT -5
Yeah... so what gets me is you hear these types of things from time to time from members of the USSF Athletes Council (Alex Morgan a member of last time I checked). However, any movement for change or progress on these fronts and this group continues to vote for the status quo without a strong explanation of their position. I just don’t get it. I love Alex Morgan as a player but the article, I think is a lot of fluff.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jul 25, 2019 6:15:02 GMT -5
While cost is certainly an issue and a big one, I think for many lower income families access is also a big problem. By that I mean the ability to get the player to a practice. When practice is at 5pm and many people work until then, how do you get your player there? Most lower income people can't just get off work early two days per week...they have hourly wage jobs.
I do have to admit sincere surprise that only 35% of players come from households making over $100,000 like the article states. I would have thought it was more. I was also surprised that 11% come from household making less than $25,000. That is a lot more low income kids than I thought.
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Post by justwatching on Jul 25, 2019 8:36:21 GMT -5
While cost is certainly an issue and a big one, I think for many lower income families access is also a big problem. By that I mean the ability to get the player to a practice. When practice is at 5pm and many people work until then, how do you get your player there? Most lower income people can't just get off work early two days per week...they have hourly wage jobs. I do have to admit sincere surprise that only 35% of players come from households making over $100,000 like the article states. I would have thought it was more. I was also surprised that 11% come from household making less than $25,000. That is a lot more low income kids than I thought. I never have understood how teams are able to have practices at 4 and 5 o'clock during the week (I've even heard of some rec programs having practice at 10am on a weekday!). I think anything before 6pm is hard for most people... The percentage of players represented from the income categories in the article are pretty disproportionate when you consider (from what I found online just now) that a little over 75% of households have a household income under $100k and approximately 25% are under $25k. Still the numbers probably are not surprising considering how much soccer costs but participation definitely is not a true representation of the county's makeup. There are a lot of unnecessary costs in club soccer in the US and way too much overhead at most (6+ directors at clubs/locations). There are a lot of areas where costs can be improved but one thing clubs can do immediately is stop changing uniforms, bags, etc. every two years and forcing players to buy the new stuff. That would at least reduce the cost a few hundred dollars every two years for the players. |
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Post by soccermonster on Jul 25, 2019 9:04:39 GMT -5
While cost is certainly an issue and a big one, I think for many lower income families access is also a big problem. By that I mean the ability to get the player to a practice. When practice is at 5pm and many people work until then, how do you get your player there? Most lower income people can't just get off work early two days per week...they have hourly wage jobs. I do have to admit sincere surprise that only 35% of players come from households making over $100,000 like the article states. I would have thought it was more. I was also surprised that 11% come from household making less than $25,000. That is a lot more low income kids than I thought. Access is also an issue for dual working parents. We had practice during the day for 4 weeks straight after school ended because we had to train for some of the summer events. It is difficult to try and get the players to the fields for 2 hour practices in the middle of our work day. Not every family has a stay at home parent that can manage this type of schedule, yet some of our coaches don't really take that into consideration. |
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Post by mightydawg on Jul 25, 2019 9:47:10 GMT -5
While cost is certainly an issue and a big one, I think for many lower income families access is also a big problem. By that I mean the ability to get the player to a practice. When practice is at 5pm and many people work until then, how do you get your player there? Most lower income people can't just get off work early two days per week...they have hourly wage jobs. I do have to admit sincere surprise that only 35% of players come from households making over $100,000 like the article states. I would have thought it was more. I was also surprised that 11% come from household making less than $25,000. That is a lot more low income kids than I thought. I never have understood how teams are able to have practices at 4 and 5 o'clock during the week (I've even heard of some rec programs having practice at 10am on a weekday!). I think anything before 6pm is hard for most people... The percentage of players represented from the income categories in the article are pretty disproportionate when you consider (from what I found online just now) that a little over 75% of households have a household income under $100k and approximately 25% are under $25k. Still the numbers probably are not surprising considering how much soccer costs but participation definitely is not a true representation of the county's makeup. There are a lot of unnecessary costs in club soccer in the US and way too much overhead at most (6+ directors at clubs/locations). There are a lot of areas where costs can be improved but one thing clubs can do immediately is stop changing uniforms, bags, etc. every two years and forcing players to buy the new stuff. That would at least reduce the cost a few hundred dollars every two years for the players. It is very important that everyone looks the same for training and in their warm up suits. The quality of soccer would decrease dramatically if everyone did not match. |
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Post by hammertime on Jul 25, 2019 10:08:42 GMT -5
There are a lot of unnecessary costs in club soccer in the US and way too much overhead at most (6+ directors at clubs/locations). There are a lot of areas where costs can be improved but one thing clubs can do immediately is stop changing uniforms, bags, etc. every two years and forcing players to buy the new stuff. That would at least reduce the cost a few hundred dollars every two years for the players. I have griped about changes in uniforms in the past as well but having to change uniforms is often outside of the club's control. The apparel companies can force a change by discontinuing a uniform style. We had that happen when a kid joined our team in middle of last year and couldn't order our then current uniforms...because they were no longer making them. There is also the issue of sponsorship changes affecting the need to change game or practice jerseys. |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jul 25, 2019 10:30:44 GMT -5
2 years is not bad for a uniform cycle. Kids grow and clothes can get pretty ratty if sweated and rolled around in for a couple years. However, having to buy 3 kits (plus some clubs/teams have pre-game warm-ups) is ridiculous...just wear a practice jersey...
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Post by mightydawg on Jul 25, 2019 11:21:10 GMT -5
2 years is not bad for a uniform cycle. Kids grow and clothes can get pretty ratty if sweated and rolled around in for a couple years. However, having to buy 3 kits (plus some clubs/teams have pre-game warm-ups) is ridiculous...just wear a practice jersey... The problem is not the new uniforms, socks and the like. The problem is the mandatory backpack and warm up suits. Also, the amount of kick back that the clubs are getting is ridiculous. Take away the club kick back and a new jersey is about $20 per jersey. Instead, they charge almost $40 for jersey when ordering the kit. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jul 25, 2019 11:36:08 GMT -5
2 years is not bad for a uniform cycle. Kids grow and clothes can get pretty ratty if sweated and rolled around in for a couple years. However, having to buy 3 kits (plus some clubs/teams have pre-game warm-ups) is ridiculous...just wear a practice jersey... The problem is not the new uniforms, socks and the like. The problem is the mandatory backpack and warm up suits. Also, the amount of kick back that the clubs are getting is ridiculous. Take away the club kick back and a new jersey is about $20 per jersey. Instead, they charge almost $40 for jersey when ordering the kit. The warmups are expensive. At our club not every team has to have the warmups, but the "top" teams do. My issue with the warmups is those could work for more than 2 years except during the growth spurts. Plus for academy ages especially the U9 and U10 kids many times the pants are too long even for the youngest kids!!! What I would like to see though are womens compression shorts available somewhere!!! Not as a mandatory thing, but I can never find them for my daughter anywhere! |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jul 25, 2019 11:37:34 GMT -5
While cost is certainly an issue and a big one, I think for many lower income families access is also a big problem. By that I mean the ability to get the player to a practice. When practice is at 5pm and many people work until then, how do you get your player there? Most lower income people can't just get off work early two days per week...they have hourly wage jobs. I do have to admit sincere surprise that only 35% of players come from households making over $100,000 like the article states. I would have thought it was more. I was also surprised that 11% come from household making less than $25,000. That is a lot more low income kids than I thought. Access is also an issue for dual working parents. We had practice during the day for 4 weeks straight after school ended because we had to train for some of the summer events. It is difficult to try and get the players to the fields for 2 hour practices in the middle of our work day. Not every family has a stay at home parent that can manage this type of schedule, yet some of our coaches don't really take that into consideration. No question it is an issue for dual working parents as well. On my kids' teams there are very few stay at home parents. This is not just a soccer issue though. Years ago one of my daughters wanted to dance and the ballet classes were at 4. Impossible for us to do. |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jul 25, 2019 11:58:09 GMT -5
What I would like to see though are womens compression shorts available somewhere!!! Not as a mandatory thing, but I can never find them for my daughter anywhere! I get the cheap ones from Academy (BCG) for $8-10. Nike and Under Armour tend to cost $20-30. I bought a few pairs, one for the game bag and some for practice bag. Their sports bras are also a very reasonable price. I have to buy the BCG boys cold weather tops though (XL), I don't know if they make them specific to girls/women??? Our club didn't mandate the backpack last year I don't believe, but does this year? They also don't mandate the pants or jackets, and a few players on my kid's teams are wearing older ones. They did throw in "free" rain jackets this year and last year our 3rd kit was free. |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jul 25, 2019 12:02:11 GMT -5
No question it is an issue for dual working parents as well. On my kids' teams there are very few stay at home parents. This is not just a soccer issue though. Years ago one of my daughters wanted to dance and the ballet classes were at 4. Impossible for us to do.
I was having a discussion about this with another parent yesterday. Its difficult enough for kids to play a school and club sport in the same season...imagine if your kid wants to do choir/band/debate team/math team/etc and you have early practices???
At HS ages its the teams that make you specialize, not the parents. The Bo Jackson's/Deion Sander's mutli-sport star is out the window if a teen plays a club sport. But in a lot of places you have to be a club player to get the training to help you become good enough to make the HS team. Circular logic.
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Post by rifle on Jul 25, 2019 18:49:07 GMT -5
Yeah... so what gets me is you hear these types of things from time to time from members of the USSF Athletes Council (Alex Morgan a member of last time I checked). However, any movement for change or progress on these fronts and this group continues to vote for the status quo without a strong explanation of their position. I just don’t get it. I love Alex Morgan as a player but the article, I think is a lot of fluff. I didn’t realize (or forgot) AM is an athletes council member. Thanks for calling this out. Good grief. I got my first taste of club soccer in 2010. Patron for nine years. Volunteer board member at a club, team treasurer, team manager, etc. I found it ironic that the fees were higher for single season select level than academy, with fewer practices. The fees today are nuts and only going higher. I suggested reversible shirts (old school) and the DOC laughed and thought I was kidding. I guess I had threatened his kickback. He wasn’t having it... I love soccer. I think it’s a shame. |
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Post by lovetokickit on Jul 26, 2019 5:18:02 GMT -5
The local organization changing the status quo in Atlanta is Soccer in the Streets (Station Soccer), which I love dearly. We play U11 academy in Buckhead, but my daughter also trains and plays with the U12/U14 teams in the West End. Talk about night and day demographics!!!
We, I mean she, truly loves SITS -- from players to coaches, many of whom do their job based on their LOVE of soccer with little to no pay.
I've heard stories of kids getting looks from AU and getting spots on their teams. If a kid can't make it to practice, they help get them to practice.
The premise behind station soccer is that the fields are located at MARTA stations so families have access to transportation to get to/from practice and games. If you haven't heard about it, you should definitely look into it and support them! They also have pick up games for kids every weekend! Everyone is invited no matter the skill level!
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Post by infoguy on Jul 26, 2019 7:45:23 GMT -5
I've thought about this pay-to-play discussion many times over the years and how talent is left out of club leagues because of the cost. I follow that logic, but I often doubt that this is the MAIN reason that men's soccer in USA isn't "competitive" with Spain, Germany, et al (many, many others). Interestingly, U.S. Women's soccer IS the best in the world. And the clubs in our parts don't treat girl parents any differently than boy parents (i.e., equally exclusive, believe me). In fact, since the U.S. is a rich/developed country with a modern-minded society, girls in the U.S. have the opportunity to play (not to suggest that we've totally reached gender equality).
All said, I believe the key reason for where we are is due to our culture. U.S. soccer competes with certain sports more so than other countries - baseball (girls softball), football (boys), basketball and now lacrosse. With all due respect to our kids that play soccer, if some of these other sports' athletes were to focus primarily on soccer, I do believe it would be a different story. For instance, in Venezuela, in contrast to other South American countries, it is principally a baseball culture and numerous Venezuelans play MLB.
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Post by justwatching on Jul 26, 2019 12:28:43 GMT -5
The local organization changing the status quo in Atlanta is Soccer in the Streets (Station Soccer), which I love dearly. We play U11 academy in Buckhead, but my daughter also trains and plays with the U12/U14 teams in the West End. Talk about night and day demographics!!! We, I mean she, truly loves SITS -- from players to coaches, many of whom do their job based on their LOVE of soccer with little to no pay. I've heard stories of kids getting looks from AU and getting spots on their teams. If a kid can't make it to practice, they help get them to practice. The premise behind station soccer is that the fields are located at MARTA stations so families have access to transportation to get to/from practice and games. If you haven't heard about it, you should definitely look into it and support them! They also have pick up games for kids every weekend! Everyone is invited no matter the skill level! I've often wanted to take my daughter to the pick up games in the west end or little five points but wasn't sure how well they are attended. Do they get good turnout for the pickup games? |
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Post by lovetokickit on Jul 29, 2019 11:46:46 GMT -5
The local organization changing the status quo in Atlanta is Soccer in the Streets (Station Soccer), which I love dearly. We play U11 academy in Buckhead, but my daughter also trains and plays with the U12/U14 teams in the West End. Talk about night and day demographics!!! We, I mean she, truly loves SITS -- from players to coaches, many of whom do their job based on their LOVE of soccer with little to no pay. I've heard stories of kids getting looks from AU and getting spots on their teams. If a kid can't make it to practice, they help get them to practice. The premise behind station soccer is that the fields are located at MARTA stations so families have access to transportation to get to/from practice and games. If you haven't heard about it, you should definitely look into it and support them! They also have pick up games for kids every weekend! Everyone is invited no matter the skill level! I've often wanted to take my daughter to the pick up games in the west end or little five points but wasn't sure how well they are attended. Do they get good turnout for the pickup games? Yes they do! We've been on both Saturday and Sunday and there are always kids there, many of whom play academy at different clubs, training and having a good time without all the stress and pressure of being at regular practice Still good quality...kids are divided equally by skill level and play a variety of games catering to development. |
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