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Post by 06gparent on Sept 30, 2019 7:40:00 GMT -5
A team we played this weekend really put this to work. I understand that sometimes this is necessary to save your team, but to do this EVERY TIME you feel under pressure is absurd! This team didn’t have one “stoppper”.. the entire defensive line was kicking the ball out of bounds.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 30, 2019 8:13:17 GMT -5
A team we played this weekend really put this to work. I understand that sometimes this is necessary to save your team, but to do this EVERY TIME you feel under pressure is absurd! This team didn’t have one “stoppper”.. the entire defensive line was kicking the ball out of bounds. Ok curious. Did that team win or did your kid's team win? |
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Post by 06gparent on Sept 30, 2019 8:23:32 GMT -5
A team we played this weekend really put this to work. I understand that sometimes this is necessary to save your team, but to do this EVERY TIME you feel under pressure is absurd! This team didn’t have one “stoppper”.. the entire defensive line was kicking the ball out of bounds. Ok curious. Did that team win or did your kid's team win? Our team lost. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 30, 2019 8:25:14 GMT -5
Ok curious. Did that team win or did your kid's team win? Our team lost. Well if that is the case, I would say their tactics and technique worked then. :-) |
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Post by 06gparent on Sept 30, 2019 8:29:26 GMT -5
Well if that is the case, I would say their tactics and technique worked then. :-) How long do you think this “tactic” will work for them? My kid is an 08. So I’m assuming as they get older and at different level this might not be such a good tactic. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 30, 2019 9:23:09 GMT -5
Well if that is the case, I would say their tactics and technique worked then. :-) How long do you think this “tactic” will work for them? My kid is an 08. So I’m assuming as they get older and at different level this might not be such a good tactic. I remember my son's team as a U12 team. The coaching sometimes at that age especially if dealing with a quick team or quick mids and forwards is to indeed kick the ball out so that the defense can get back in position. Sometimes its also because maybe the team is not particularly good at possession and getting the ball back up the field without it being intercepted. My son's team at that age had a lot of defenders that did just exactly what you are talking about. As they matured last year and this year, that is not the case anymore. They hold possession well, and the defenders can play out of trouble and get the ball up the field without having to kick it out of bounds 80% of the time now. They probably kick it out about the same % times I see MLS teams do it now, in situations where there is no good pass and you don't want to give up the ball like that in your half. It may be more of an age and experience things right now. If you play that team in future years, see how much changes. I'll bet you find that with age comes experience. |
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Post by 06gparent on Sept 30, 2019 10:08:34 GMT -5
How long do you think this “tactic” will work for them? My kid is an 08. So I’m assuming as they get older and at different level this might not be such a good tactic. I remember my son's team as a U12 team. The coaching sometimes at that age especially if dealing with a quick team or quick mids and forwards is to indeed kick the ball out so that the defense can get back in position. Sometimes its also because maybe the team is not particularly good at possession and getting the ball back up the field without it being intercepted. My son's team at that age had a lot of defenders that did just exactly what you are talking about. As they matured last year and this year, that is not the case anymore. They hold possession well, and the defenders can play out of trouble and get the ball up the field without having to kick it out of bounds 80% of the time now. They probably kick it out about the same % times I see MLS teams do it now, in situations where there is no good pass and you don't want to give up the ball like that in your half. It may be more of an age and experience things right now. If you play that team in future years, see how much changes. I'll bet you find that with age comes experience. Glad to hear this! I would hope that by at least U15 this changes. |
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Post by mightydawg on Sept 30, 2019 11:00:10 GMT -5
I think the stats are that a throw-in is turned over to the non-throwing team with 5 seconds on 80% of throws. Assuming that stat to be true, kicking the ball out gives the team an 80% chance of getting the ball right back. What is wrong with the strategy? I also assume that your son's team was playing long balls into the defense to give the defense a change to kick it out. Why not play possession and pass around the defense?
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Post by 06gparent on Sept 30, 2019 11:35:41 GMT -5
I think the stats are that a throw-in is turned over to the non-throwing team with 5 seconds on 80% of throws. Assuming that stat to be true, kicking the ball out gives the team an 80% chance of getting the ball right back. What is wrong with the strategy? I also assume that your son's team was playing long balls into the defense to give the defense a change to kick it out. Why not play possession and pass around the defense? Completely on the contrary. Our team did not play long balls. We possessed and played from the back. However the other team as soon as we got into their half they would kick it out of bounds or just kick it forward. Most of the throws we would win and switch the field to try to get in that way but the defender on that side would do the same. They didn’t even try to posses the ball or make a pass to their teammates. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 30, 2019 12:14:46 GMT -5
I think the stats are that a throw-in is turned over to the non-throwing team with 5 seconds on 80% of throws. Assuming that stat to be true, kicking the ball out gives the team an 80% chance of getting the ball right back. What is wrong with the strategy? I also assume that your son's team was playing long balls into the defense to give the defense a change to kick it out. Why not play possession and pass around the defense? Completely on the contrary. Our team did not play long balls. We possessed and played from the back. However the other team as soon as we got into their half they would kick it out of bounds or just kick it forward. Most of the throws we would win and switch the field to try to get in that way but the defender on that side would do the same. They didn’t even try to posses the ball or make a pass to their teammates. I think some of what mightydawg is saying though is if you are possessing the ball and shape is correct, your kid's team should be able to pass around the defender before the defender has the chance to dispossess and kick the ball out of bounds. If the other team is kicking balls out, then by default doesn't that mean your kid's team lost possession in those instances, and if that is the case I would say their defenders were good at dispossessing and tackling. |
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Post by soccerdad76 on Sept 30, 2019 12:17:37 GMT -5
How did they get the ball out of the back? Sounds like it should have been on their defensive half 90% of the game. Only possessed if no pressure from your forwards?
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Post by 06gparent on Sept 30, 2019 12:24:16 GMT -5
How did they get the ball out of the back? Sounds like it should have been on their defensive half 90% of the game. Only possessed if no pressure from your forwards? They either kicked forward with hopes that it would get to someone on their team, or just kick it out of bounds. They did not posses the ball much. Our our forwards would pressure which is when they would kick it out of bounds. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 30, 2019 12:31:25 GMT -5
How did they get the ball out of the back? Sounds like it should have been on their defensive half 90% of the game. Only possessed if no pressure from your forwards? They either kicked forward with hopes that it would get to someone on their team, or just kick it out of bounds. They did not posses the ball much. Our our forwards would pressure which is when they would kick it out of bounds. Well if it was inside the 18 defenders in pressures situations are taught to make sure you get it out of the box by any means necessary. I mean look at MLS teams. Plenty of defenders kicking back up field as hard as they can, out of bounds for a throw-in, or as a last resort out for a corner in pressure situations. |
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Post by 06gparent on Sept 30, 2019 12:44:52 GMT -5
They either kicked forward with hopes that it would get to someone on their team, or just kick it out of bounds. They did not posses the ball much. Our our forwards would pressure which is when they would kick it out of bounds. Well if it was inside the 18 defenders in pressures situations are taught to make sure you get it out of the box by any means necessary. I mean look at MLS teams. Plenty of defenders kicking back up field as hard as they can, out of bounds for a throw-in, or as a last resort out for a corner in pressure situations. I’m not arguing at the fact that it’s ok to clear it or kick it out to get out of pressure. However when the defense literally does this with every ball that they touch that’s what I call bad soccer. I don’t believe you are teaching your defense how to defend or play from the back. MLS teams don’t kick the ball out of bounds every time if they have a chance to make a pass. Believe me there was numerous times when the defense had time to make a pass an just kicked it out. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 30, 2019 13:11:24 GMT -5
Either way it's a good learning experience playing against teams like that. Those kids are obviously not learning anything about the game, but that's a "them" problem and sounds like the team wasn't coached during the week. There is nothing to gain by teaching <10 year olds to bang it every time. They would be better off, just trying to settle the ball and having a good first touch and then losing it under pressure. those kids will be set back years if they continue down that path.
I have nothing wrong with direct play, but this isn't direct play, this sounds like rec soccer with a volunteer coach that doesn't understand the game. It would be like coaching pee wee football and not teaching the kids real offensive plays, but instead just throwing hell mary's every down. What good does that do? Maybe you win a few games because you get lucky, but who cares, the kids are 8/9.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Sept 30, 2019 14:51:52 GMT -5
Completely on the contrary. Our team did not play long balls. We possessed and played from the back. However the other team as soon as we got into their half they would kick it out of bounds or just kick it forward. Most of the throws we would win and switch the field to try to get in that way but the defender on that side would do the same. They didn’t even try to posses the ball or make a pass to their teammates. I think some of what mightydawg is saying though is if you are possessing the ball and shape is correct, your kid's team should be able to pass around the defender before the defender has the chance to dispossess and kick the ball out of bounds. If the other team is kicking balls out, then by default doesn't that mean your kid's team lost possession in those instances, and if that is the case I would say their defenders were good at dispossessing and tackling. Possibly the OP's kid's team lost possession due to inaccurate passes. These are little kids. Even at the older age groups and the pros and college ranks you see passes that go astray, are struck too hard or too soft and fail to make it to their intended target. It sounds like a frustrating game and I agree with Soccerhouse...teach them to play real possession soccer so they learn skills and worry about wins later. The OP has the right view on this...frustrating. I will say that there is still a learning experience because some teams will have tactics that make the game ugly and you will have to deal with it at all levels. |
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Post by mightydawg on Sept 30, 2019 16:15:00 GMT -5
Well if it was inside the 18 defenders in pressures situations are taught to make sure you get it out of the box by any means necessary. I mean look at MLS teams. Plenty of defenders kicking back up field as hard as they can, out of bounds for a throw-in, or as a last resort out for a corner in pressure situations. I’m not arguing at the fact that it’s ok to clear it or kick it out to get out of pressure. However when the defense literally does this with every ball that they touch that’s what I call bad soccer. I don’t believe you are teaching your defense how to defend or play from the back. MLS teams don’t kick the ball out of bounds every time if they have a chance to make a pass. Believe me there was numerous times when the defense had time to make a pass an just kicked it out. While I prefer to watch and for my kids to play possession soccer with the ball moving quickly around the field, the fact of the matter is that there is no one "right way" to play soccer. There are a variety of different styles of soccer and it is important for kids to play against different styles so that they can learn how to attack that style. A number of teams around the world have been very successful with parking the bus and living by the counterattack (Sweden against US in Olympics). It can be frustrating to play against but is an effective style of soccer. Likewise, playing direct has been an effective style of soccer. Possession style. High press, etc. Why are you frustrated about how the other team played (as long as it wasn't dirty)? It sounds like your frustration is really that your kid's team did not find a way to counter this strategy or that you wanted your more skilled forwards to be able to dispossess the other's team's less skilled defenders and get easy breakaway goals. Scoring cheap breakaway goals is "bad soccer" too. The high press tactics of coaches on 7, 8, and 9 year olds is what led to the build outline for U10 and younger so that kids could play out of the back without immediate pressure. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 30, 2019 16:25:26 GMT -5
I think the OP said it was a 2008 birth year so this is U12 (last year of academy). As I told her I think a lot of the "always kick it out of bounds" will likely go away as the kids get older and more mature. I know this was the case for my son's team, and while we still aren't the greatest at possession, we do it a lot better than when we tried to do it at U12.
I think the overall goal is always to get better year after year and even throughout the year, and I think that is how you measure success. I don't mean wins and losses either.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Sept 30, 2019 18:21:57 GMT -5
I’m not arguing at the fact that it’s ok to clear it or kick it out to get out of pressure. However when the defense literally does this with every ball that they touch that’s what I call bad soccer. I don’t believe you are teaching your defense how to defend or play from the back. MLS teams don’t kick the ball out of bounds every time if they have a chance to make a pass. Believe me there was numerous times when the defense had time to make a pass an just kicked it out. While I prefer to watch and for my kids to play possession soccer with the ball moving quickly around the field, the fact of the matter is that there is no one "right way" to play soccer. There are a variety of different styles of soccer and it is important for kids to play against different styles so that they can learn how to attack that style. A number of teams around the world have been very successful with parking the bus and living by the counterattack (Sweden against US in Olympics). It can be frustrating to play against but is an effective style of soccer. Likewise, playing direct has been an effective style of soccer. Possession style. High press, etc. Why are you frustrated about how the other team played (as long as it wasn't dirty)? It sounds like your frustration is really that your kid's team did not find a way to counter this strategy or that you wanted your more skilled forwards to be able to dispossess the other's team's less skilled defenders and get easy breakaway goals. Scoring cheap breakaway goals is "bad soccer" too. The high press tactics of coaches on 7, 8, and 9 year olds is what led to the build outline for U10 and younger so that kids could play out of the back without immediate pressure. While I agree with some of what you say, such as needing to learn to play against other tactics, I think part of the problem with kicking the ball out over and over and over again, is that it completely ruins the flow of the game. It takes many minutes of play away while someone runs to get the ball and then throw it in. It is a boring, lame way to play and frustrating for spectators and players alike. |
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Post by soccerguru on Oct 1, 2019 9:40:14 GMT -5
I have a problem with kids just kicking it out when they since a little pressure. My oldest son's team starting at u9 was taught to never kick the ball out unless it was the last possible choice you had and because you were the last defender with no other options. It was truly beautiful soccer and the coached preached this contantly. AS teams changed, I see defenders clearing the ball all the time because of pure panic or just being tired.
Kids don't trust passing back to the goalie, goalie doesn't trust having ball at their feet etc. When ODP preaches to play the ball out of the back and when most other clubs began to adopt this mantra you would of figured the kicking it out just to kick it out would of went down dramatically but I see it more today than ever.
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