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Post by hattrick07 on Oct 1, 2019 8:10:33 GMT -5
I have a question about subbing... while I realize that a player can't go back after they've been taken out for that half, I do not know what the proper protocol is with subbing. Do coaches at this level usually have equal playing time, have a set rotations, or simply play the best players until they are fatigued?
I'm having trouble grasping both the equal playing time, and set rotation at this level. Especially if there is great momentum between players, and then at 17.5 minutes – players are subbed out, regardless of how well they are playing, or how the competition is playing... all based on a timer. This philosophy feels more like recreational soccer or middle school soccer, rather than Elite soccer.
I understanding subbing when a player is tired, or maybe not performing their best. To take players out when they are making an impact, and are dynamic on the field – makes absolutely no sense to me. Many times, the game will change so dramatically, that it's almost painful to watch. Many parents are having the same gut reaction as I am when this happens. You see their faces in utter disbelief, and hear quiet (and not so quiet) rumblings.
With that said, is this something that can be discussed with coach, or do you sit quietly? I loathe soccer drama, and really don't want to have an intervention between parents and coach, but it's a difficult pill to swallow when there is so much cost/commitment/travel involved – and the coach is not playing the best line up, or necessarily playing to win. And yes, I know, winning isn't everything, but really at this level, who doesn't want to win? Thoughts/Advice?
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Post by soccerparent02 on Oct 1, 2019 8:49:26 GMT -5
Kid plays ECNL. It is a challenge for kids to play 90 minutes at the top of their game especially with our 95 plus temps and kids playing back to back days. In kids situation, best players get most minutes. Subs maybe 10 - 15 a half w some cases subs getting no minutes in one of the halves just depending. There is no 50/50 play in select and above league play. The best play.
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Post by hattrick07 on Oct 1, 2019 9:00:44 GMT -5
Thanks for your feedback! It's a long game with heat and no problem with subbing - and agree with you that there should not be 50/50 play in select and above leagues. Now... how should that be brought up with coach?
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Post by blu on Oct 1, 2019 9:05:49 GMT -5
At U13/U14 ECNL I've seen kids playing at least half a game, the better players will play more. That's pretty universal among all the teams/games I've seen so far.
I think most parents/kids would leave an ECNL team if they were playing less than half a game at this age.
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Post by soccernotfootball on Oct 1, 2019 9:08:17 GMT -5
Unless it's your kid and you are asking about his/her minutes (and what they can do if they aren't getting enough) - you don't say anything. You should never approach a coach about another player's time, skill, or whatever (outside of something directly to do with your player like not getting along or something).
If you want to know about your coach's philosophy regarding PT - ask.
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Post by soccerparent02 on Oct 1, 2019 9:22:06 GMT -5
Coach ultimately makes decisions on playing time. Kids played since age 4 and never have talked to any coach about anything. I think it best to leave it to the coach. Are you talking to their boss if they don't get that raise or promotion...didn't think so.
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Post by hammertime on Oct 1, 2019 10:52:15 GMT -5
Hattrick am I understanding correctly that your issue/concern/question is that your coach is doing a line change at the half way point of each half regardless of how the players are playing or the game is going? So that everyone gets at least a half a game?
Sounds similar to what our coach did some at U13 and maybe a few times at U14 when playing weaker opponents (the FL clubs with DA programs, ha) which was to basically rotate six field players at the mid point of each half (for us it was usually the two outside backs the two outside midfielders one of our forwards and one of our center mids). Basically leaving the spine of the team intact for the whole game...even if they weren't having a great game.
I've never seen a team do it that way after the first couple of ECNL years.
I get it that it's frustrating to see a kid play really well for 17.5 minutes only to get subbed based on a formula or predetermined rotation. That said, at those younger ages the coaches and clubs do have to hedge a little to make sure they retain players with somewhat equal playing time. Especially before they hit puberty as that can be a game changer.
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Post by hattrick07 on Oct 1, 2019 12:25:29 GMT -5
Thank you, and yes, you are correct that everyone is playing at least half the game. I understand that philosophy to some degree (the reasons you mentioned). The only difference is that it's played that way for ALL games - irrespective of who's tired, who's playing well, or the how good the competition is. And team stats speak to that :/
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Post by hateallthesechanges on Oct 1, 2019 12:38:27 GMT -5
I guess it depends on the depth of your subs. Some team's subs are virtually as strong as the starters. The starting spot is won and lost week to week. In these cases, fresh legs from a solid sub is a big benefit to a team.
I am torn on the general concept though. If I am paying ECNL fees and committing to all the travel the same as everyone else on the team, I would hope my kid is playing at least half a game. I would definitely look to find a new team if they weren't. The grass isn't always greener though. Likely these same players will be #12-18 on the next team too. You would hope the coach knows his competition well enough to allow #12-18 to get their ample playing time in at appropriate times.
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Post by 04gparent on Oct 1, 2019 13:02:58 GMT -5
I guess it depends on the depth of your subs. Some team's subs are virtually as strong as the starters. The starting spot is won and lost week to week. In these cases, fresh legs from a solid sub is a big benefit to a team. I am torn on the general concept though. If I am paying ECNL fees and committing to all the travel the same as everyone else on the team, I would hope my kid is playing at least half a game. I would definitely look to find a new team if they weren't. The grass isn't always greener though. Likely these same players will be #12-18 on the next team too. You would hope the coach knows his competition well enough to allow #12-18 to get their ample playing time in at appropriate times. ECNL even at u13 doesn't mean much. Last year was the first year they added a playoff for the top 2 teams. Reality is at u13 or u14 where the games are 70 or 80 minutes it is hard for 18 players to get equal playing time. The issue is that pay to play is so expensive that it's hard for everyone to remember that it is about development of the player pool. Depending on the club the player pool may be 30+ (platinum/premier). Personally, I would like for the better players to play more (especially if its my kid), but I realize I can be selfish based on how big the team size is. LOL! |
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Post by Keeper on Oct 1, 2019 13:46:35 GMT -5
As someone in another recent post said, they’re kids and they are most likely not going pro in soccer so just let them play. It’s youth soccer, and if you take a kid, roster a kid & take their money then they should get at least 50% of the game on the field.
If you don’t like it then we need smaller rosters, with just 1-2 subs rosters maxing out at 14 instead of 22, no more then one GK on a team, and players are held to a much higher standard about showing up EVERY day.
It’s ECNL too so there’s no rules about pulling club/guest players DA, SCCL, NPL or any of those other leagues as long as it’s the same club.
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Post by mistergrinch on Oct 1, 2019 14:28:48 GMT -5
I've heard a coach when asked about this say 'I pick them - I play them'. The idea was that if you made the team, you deserved to play at least halfish.
I see both sides of it, particularly when there are players who are clearly less invested and/or falling behind. Then again - they're not going to get better on the bench.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Oct 1, 2019 15:08:21 GMT -5
I'm of the opinion that all rostered players should play half a game. Meaning, if you have guest players from another team, perhaps they can get less.
But given a game under ECNL sub rules where you have a full compliment of 7 subs, That means at least 4 players play the whole game. But it could be that all your subs play 30-40 min and your starters each play at least 50-60 minutes. That's not bad, even for the subs.
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Post by soccerparent02 on Oct 1, 2019 17:00:53 GMT -5
Once past u14 and a certain level there are no guarantees for playing time. It also depends on the game. Your 6th or 7th defender may not be able to handle the other team's top striker who btw never subs. I may not sub that defender in bc at that age winning does matter. There is no right best way. That is what the coach is paid for.
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