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Post by guerillaman on Mar 5, 2020 19:51:48 GMT -5
Am I the only one who is anti beep test --- last time I checked and watched a soccer game, there is no beeps during a game.....rather see 90 minutes of ball work and scrimmaging. play the game. Concentrate on soccer.
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Post by 04gparent on Mar 5, 2020 20:34:39 GMT -5
Am I the only one who is anti beep test --- last time I checked and watched a soccer game, there is no beeps during a game.....rather see 90 minutes of ball work and scrimmaging. play the game. Concentrate on soccer. Create a poll. Fitness is a big part of soccer. Foot skills with no fitness doesn’t go far. Poor fitness leads to poor decision making and turnovers. Notice that all the major clubs and college programs have incorporated fitness and trainers on their coaching staffs. |
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Post by guerillaman on Mar 5, 2020 21:00:05 GMT -5
Just see it more often -- prioritizing fitness over soccer. See it so often - teams can't settle a ball, but yep they killed the beep test.
We ran in college yes, but we constantly were playing with the ball -- that where most of our fitness came from.
We threw shirts down as goals and just played, shirts and skins, sweating our butts off, we were as fit as it got. We took team runs for sure, but our fitness came during drills, and game play. We worked hard when we stepped between the lines.
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Post by allthingsoccer on Mar 6, 2020 8:07:36 GMT -5
I never understood it as well. It has no merit of getting into College. No set standard as they have many versions of this test. I could never find out what version my son did to try and compare. I get that its a stop, start endurance and it's to trying to get close game scenario but I think Colleges want to know 1-2 mile times. I think it would be better if they just ran those.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Mar 6, 2020 10:16:35 GMT -5
I believe Concorde Fire DA does or did this over the last couple of years. I also heard that some of the players couldn't "pass" the beep-test and were held out of games. First off, how can you as a DA player not "pass" the beep test, seriously? Secondly, I get that conditioning is part of soccer, but this is a completely useless waste of time on an activity that I think should be done on the players own personal time. In the US, even at the MLS academy level, coaches don't have enough time to be spending their valuable hour or hour and a half on running. When in fact they should be working on the other parts of the game - tactical, technical, mindset, etc...
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Post by allthingsoccer on Mar 6, 2020 10:25:21 GMT -5
I agree with you Futsal. total waste of time.
I would start preseason with a 1 to 2-mile run. See where everyone's fitness levels are at. Do another at the end of Winter. One at the start of Spring. These are measured and will at least call out those who are off pace and provide opportunities for those to train on their own to get better.
It's very important and therapeutic. Cleans the mind.
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Post by 04gparent on Mar 6, 2020 10:38:23 GMT -5
I believe Concorde Fire DA does or did this over the last couple of years. I also heard that some of the players couldn't "pass" the beep-test and were held out of games. First off, how can you as a DA player not "pass" the beep test, seriously? Secondly, I get that conditioning is part of soccer, but this is a completely useless waste of time on an activity that I think should be done on the players own personal time. In the US, even at the MLS academy level, coaches don't have enough time to be spending their valuable hour or hour and a half on running. When in fact they should be working on the other parts of the game - tactical, technical, mindset, etc... I dont have boys so I cant speak to the effectiveness on the boys side, but on the girls side, if all things are equal and I have limited subs (3 per game / half) then to me fitness is big. So if both teams are close in ability and one team is fitter than the other, then the edge goes to the most fit team. I have seen the best skilled players get tired and make a crucial mistake. I think if a club has a practice schedule and plan even at the highest level (DA, ECNL) a fitness plan including beep test is a great addition to get an edge... |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Mar 6, 2020 10:56:12 GMT -5
My question -- is running a beep test in March going to have you in shape for Sept?
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Post by atlfutboldad on Mar 6, 2020 11:04:49 GMT -5
In the above video, someone slowly runs 20 yards down and back and they put it on social media? Surely all USMA students are all already in good shape, and I'm not sure what this proves...
I have no idea what the beep test even is, and it sounds pointless enough to not bother looking up.
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Post by vinrock23 on Mar 6, 2020 11:59:46 GMT -5
I have only seen the beep test once at our club. But I believe the fitness starts younger than High School age. at least U10 or U11. 9v9 on short fields will start to show a players fitness if they are playing full games. But once they move to 11v11 at U12 U13 it shows. If your players want to advance on 11v11 and stay on top you have to be training for fitness (and nutrition) all year round. You don't see overweight unfit players at higher level even in U13, U14 they sift out.
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Post by mistergrinch on Mar 6, 2020 12:04:57 GMT -5
Does this really upset you? I mean.. it's a fitness test.
In the 70s they'd be seeing how many situps (old style) you could do.. was that useful?
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Post by allthingsoccer on Mar 6, 2020 12:20:39 GMT -5
It's not that it upsets me. It's when and how they do it. If it was a set standard (like the 1 or 2mile times) then it would be more meaningful. (useful) Doing it now at this time of year as well I don't really understand. Like others have pointed out, cardio should be done on own time outside of practice. Only introduce it at the start of seasons as a measure. Plus now, a College will ask what is your mile time or 2-mile time. Well, I got a 21 on my beep test. (so many different versions of beep tests) My son got a 19.5 in one and 55 in another.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Mar 6, 2020 12:30:22 GMT -5
Presidential Physical Fitness Test in school, woot! I watched the beep test, seems silly. My kid's MS PE they do pacers, which sound like a similar concept. I get that testing shows improvement, but I don't think its necessary. If they're doing the work, they will get more fit. Back in HS our coach would make us run trails at AUM, it sucked. But building endurance is crucial to playing the long game.
Our club treats the 3 practice days as techincal, fitness and tactical. Usually that amounts to sprint cycles on fitness day.
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Post by soccerloafer on Mar 6, 2020 12:31:57 GMT -5
Best use is a simple quantifiable method to assess player fitness. Our HS uses similar tests in preseason to encourage players to stay fit on their own.
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Post by forumguy on Mar 6, 2020 14:14:56 GMT -5
First, just want to say I'm a long time reader and part time poster...I had to change my email and so am starting over with a new username as a newbie!
I use the beep test and here's why...
The Intermittent Recovery test is one of the most well researched soccer-specific fitness tests and is an accurate benchmark for preseason fitness levels. It has been demonstrated to be related to total distance run in a match, the distance run at high intensity, and the sprinting distance (Mohr et al 2003, Krustrup at al 2008, Bearden at al 2013)
In addition to all that I find that when running the beep test (I only do it once a year and it takes about 20 minutes) if I pay attention to my players throughout the test I can quite accurately determine the following
1. Who actually completed the fitness program the team was given in the off season (who is then at or above their required VO2 max and who goofed off and isnt prepared for the work I expect them to perform in the coming weeks)
2. Which players are there only for themselves (the ones who put their head down don't look or interact with anyone else during the test and as soon as they hit the required pass level walk off and go stand to the side on their own)
3. Which players are going to be good teammates and positively impact the morale and chemistry of the team (these are the players that talk constantly in a positive manner throughout the test, helping their teammates and encouraging them to "keep pushing". When these players are done they will hang around and keep encouraging their team mates if any are still left running the test).
4. Which players quit early at the first signs of adversity. Or worse yet will get one level below where they need to be to pass the test and quit. These players typically will not be the ones you want on the field in playoffs in June when its 100 degrees and 90% humidity and you're chasing a result with 10 minutes to go. I have only been disproved once this theory in 20+ years.
5. Which players are the true grinders. The ones that have completed their fitness program over the offseason, are excited to do the test and blow right through the designated pass level and want to keep going.
Then when the test is done I can evaluate in the next hour of practice who has checked out physically because the beep test overwhelmed them.
I know who has check out emotionally because they failed or think the "test is stupid" and now can't focus on the topic covered in practice.
I know who the players are who immediately snap right back after a quick rest and can focus and execute the session at the level expected.
Yes, to the layman's eyes the beep test is a worthless 20 minutes running without the ball but for me it's an unbelievable resource to identify and assess many different factors, personality traits and nuances about my team. I will know and have gathered more information about my players in 20 minutes than most coaches will know in a month.
Not to mention every player spends more than 20 minutes in a game running without the ball.
Yes, what they do with those two minutes is absolutely crucial but if we can improve what they do without the ball and make it more efficient then maybe the time they spend with the ball will also be improved/enhanced.
But hey, what do I know! I'm just the lazy old school coach who makes his team run the "stupid beep test" 😉
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Post by allthingsoccer on Mar 6, 2020 15:26:31 GMT -5
good reply Forumguy...
I can see how this can apply and a great point of view. but you must remember we are parents and always right and you are still the coach that makes them run "stupid beep test" 😉
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Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 6, 2020 17:02:33 GMT -5
I am also not really a fan of two mile times in soccer. Don't find it applicable. Soccer is not run at a constant speed for 10-12 minutes (14 minutes for some slower peeps). It is a sprint interval. I know some colleges ask for it, but I am not sold. What you need to be able to do is run full out or nearly so dozens of times and recover. It is anaerobic. Running two miles is aerobic.
I think the beep test is a better measure of soccer fitness than a 2 mile run. Way better. Whether a youth team should do it...maybe. Colleges certainly have them time to do it though. They have summer training and spring training.
As an aside I also think that DURING the season it is very hard to find the time to do fitness. As it is my kid struggles to find the time for 8 hours of sleep per night given the time spent at soccer, private training and school.
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Post by atv on Mar 6, 2020 18:01:00 GMT -5
You may not like it but some midfielders (and outside backs) that run a LOT during games have unbelievable fitness and can turn in some crazy long distance times. As someone indicated it’s a bi-product of the training. I think my son finished 3rd overall in a High School sponsored 5k when he was an 8th grader. He never ran on his own or trained he just played soccer all the time. Finished up there with 2 high school seniors on the cross country team who were supposed to be really good runners. I was shocked. However, probably similar to a lot of other players out there. They’re not doing it so they don’t realize how the fitness level translates.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 6, 2020 18:34:36 GMT -5
You may not like it but some midfielders (and outside backs) that run a LOT during games have unbelievable fitness and can turn in some crazy long distance times. As someone indicated it’s a bi-product of the training. I think my son finished 3rd overall in a High School sponsored 5k when he was an 8th grader. He never ran on his own or trained he just played soccer all the time. Finished up there with 2 high school seniors on the cross country team who were supposed to be really good runners. I was shocked. However, probably similar to a lot of other players out there. They’re not doing it so they don’t realize how the fitness level translates. My kid ran cross country for 4 years without ever training. Did really well despite usually stopping to walk a couple of times because there was no concept of pacing. It still isn't the same type of running and not as applicable as interval running. |
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Post by atv on Mar 6, 2020 18:45:03 GMT -5
I respectfully disagree. Midfielders and outside backs playing on high level teams running all the time will generally have good fitness and can easily run 2 to 3 miles without stopping and post great times. The fitness translates.
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Post by spectator on Mar 6, 2020 19:57:53 GMT -5
I never understood it as well. It has no merit of getting into College. No set standard as they have many versions of this test. I could never find out what version my son did to try and compare. I get that its a stop, start endurance and it's to trying to get close game scenario but I think Colleges want to know 1-2 mile times. I think it would be better if they just ran those. Actually fitness is more important once you get to college. If you've been recruited, the coach knows you can play - but do you have the stamina for workouts 5 + times a week during season plus games then 2X a week off season once the NCAA allows it? Weight training and fitness may not get you to college but it'll keep you there and keep you playing! My daughter's school had freshmen come in this year who didn't do the 'suggested' fitness over the summer - both tore ACLs in season. One spent her entire summer doing footwork - she was a good player for 2 games but fancy footwork doesn't fly if you aren't strong enough to deliver. Those who cannot run or pass Man U test, don't play. there is such a thing as over training as well - full 11v11 scrimmages every practice isn't going to do much more than wear kids out or burn them out. Mixing up the soccer with fitness at club age is a good thing. |
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Post by ultimatedad on Mar 6, 2020 20:32:46 GMT -5
IMO fitness can not be stressed enough. As opposed to ability this is totally in any athletes control and should NEVER be reason for poor performance on the field. This is one of the most important lesson that any sport teaches us. This is something that all athletes take further into life. Put the work in without question. All that said the kids should be doing it on their own time like before school or whenever they can fit it in.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 6, 2020 20:48:38 GMT -5
I respectfully disagree. Midfielders and outside backs playing on high level teams running all the time will generally have good fitness and can easily run 2 to 3 miles without stopping and post great times. The fitness translates. I played midfield. Couldn't run a 5 k (without stopping) to save my life. Never got outrun on the field. Ever. Never came out for sub. No issues with fitness. Most soccer players are great 800 meter people. Though I will tell you that some people just can run anything. I know a guy who ran everything from the 200m to college cross country (8k for guys usually) and even did amazing in marathons. I am not saying running distance is worthless. I just disagree that it is as useful for measuring fitness as sprints are. Particularly repeated intervals. |
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Post by atv on Mar 6, 2020 21:01:13 GMT -5
Yeah ... Ok. Peace.
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Post by rifle on Mar 6, 2020 21:07:14 GMT -5
I want to see a college coach who makes players do the beep test with a ball at your feet. Why not both?
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Post by soccerloafer on Mar 7, 2020 11:23:36 GMT -5
I see nothing wrong with it as a fitness assessment tool. Especially since close games are easily lost due to fitness/lack thereof. I had a coach that would strap us to parachutes to run sprints after a full field, hour long, scrimmage. Or, end a practice with an Indian run (not PC, but don’t know another name for it). Soccer is bursts of all out hustle, followed by short recovery periods, for those putting in the expected effort. Ball or no ball, I’m a fan of the beep test. Indian runs! Great memories from HS pre-season. Need to put that one back in my bag of tricks. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Mar 7, 2020 16:13:06 GMT -5
We did lappers - 1/2 team Jogs at lap, other 1/2 sprints a lap to catch the jogging group. Reverse and repeat over and over.
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