|
Post by 918soccer on Mar 10, 2020 17:42:13 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by straightred on Mar 10, 2020 18:14:11 GMT -5
This was being discussed in a different thread... TopHat DPL thread, since it is most relevant to TopHat, maybe.
|
|
|
Post by fridge on Mar 11, 2020 8:44:56 GMT -5
This announcement is incredibly significant for the DA/ECNL war. In sum, this announcement cements ECNL's position and reputation as a definite equal to DA for literally the next decade. DA has blown it.
I am not saying this is the death of DA. DA has great clubs and will remain viable for the next decade too. HOWEVER, DA's mission was to essentially destroy ECNL. DA was created to take the best clubs and best players for the best competition. DA has now lost several great national clubs (Michigan Hawks, Mass/FC Stars, PDA, Texans, Real Colo, Eclipse, Concorde, etc.) and their great players after experiencing both DA/ECNL. It's amazing, bc if I had to bet a couple years ago, I figured DA with all of its resources would slowly suck away all the good clubs from ECNL. Frankly, the inverse has happened and ECNL is winning the hand to hand combat with great clubs going all-in each year. Meanwhile, DA (1) adds clubs with little regional reputations let alone national reputations and (2) continues to compromise on its "mission statement" in trying to compete with ECNL which appears to have a more compelling model for girls. Further, this truly changes the recruitment argument DA clubs would use-- that DA kids would get the clear edge when it comes to youth national team call ins. When the above 7 clubs (plus Blues and others) are in ECNL, the federation must continue to recruit and give opportunities to ECNL kids.
DA had its window to destroy ECNL 2 years ago and the leadership of ECNL out maneuvered DA. If there were any interest in a detent' between the two leagues, I don't think ECNL has an incentive anymore.
|
|
|
Post by coffee on Mar 11, 2020 8:53:29 GMT -5
... DA has now lost several great national clubs (Michigan Hawks, Mass/FC Stars, PDA, Texans, Real Colo, Eclipse, Concorde, etc.) and their great players after experiencing both DA/ECNL. ... I had been told that some (no, not all, just some) clubs withdrew from DA because they struggled to consistently compete at the DA level. Not true?
|
|
|
Post by fridge on Mar 11, 2020 9:22:41 GMT -5
Good question. I just looked. Real is in top 2 of the table in all DA age groups. Consistently in the 9/2 record range. Texans were all over the table--high/middle/low. (Frankly, not as high as I would have thought.) Even so, other clubs I mentioned from Concorde to PDA to Eclipse to Hawks were consistently high in the DA table before exiting.
|
|
|
Post by fridge on Mar 11, 2020 9:28:27 GMT -5
(I am not sure who the Texans compete with. Dallas Sting in ECNL are doing quite well. And, FC Dallas in DA are doing quite well. Texans have been a traditional strong club so clearly have had some issues especially in their lower age groups.)
|
|
|
Post by atlfutboldad on Mar 11, 2020 9:58:10 GMT -5
IMO GDA will eventually become a SW (mainly SoCal) regional league (on the girls side). Once they separate the MLS from the other boys DA clubs at younger ages, more non-MLS clubs will pull away from boys DA.
|
|
|
Post by atv on Mar 11, 2020 11:11:40 GMT -5
“Real Colorado have played in both leagues,” said Real Colorado Executive Director of Coaching Lorne Donaldson. “The ECNL is a better environment for the overall development of our student athletes, on and off the field, and we are excited to be back.”
“We are excited once again to compete in ECNL,” said Dallas Texans Director of Coaching Hassan Nazari. “Dallas Texans have always addressed the need of its members. We respect the platform that ECNL has created for women’s soccer and are proud to be back.”
|
|
|
Post by Futsal Gawdess on Mar 11, 2020 12:26:57 GMT -5
Unless you are a true national team player or currently on or in the Nat’l Team pool of players, my recommendation would be to go the ECNL route. It offers a myriad of options that IMO GDA doesn’t allow. ODP, HS soccer, ECNL Regional leagues, the # of showcases, a break from 10+ months of soccer in GDA, great college scouting options for the lower to average soccer player to name a few. Let's face it, lower level schools and their tiny recruitment budgets are not going to the National Showcases put on by the USSF.
For teams like NTH that may or may not stay in DA, it comes down to the success of DPL and all the alternate leagues available to their 2nd, 3rd, etc. teams. It is going to be hard to keep those players drinking the Kool-Aid at NTH if all you have to offer them is DPL in its current format, internal scrimmages against other NTH teams and SCCL 1, 2, 3…10. Conversely, that will also affect what UFA GDA does too.
Early rumors are that there has been some discussions about staying in GDA or leaving and asking for the same CF deal of getting two teams within ECNL for NTH. On the other hand, last year, UFA was approached about going all-in and joining ECNL but they balked. I don’t know how this faux war between GDA and ECNL will end up, but right now kudos to the ECNL, who has absorbed the first rally by GDA and are now on the offensive in recruiting back some truly powerful clubs back to ECNL.
Once a thread is begun, we can discuss a different type of chaos brewing within the Boys DA sphere. As more MLS clubs come online and get their Academies up and running, the threat of an MLS only DA will materialize. This has the added effect of demoting non-MLS clubs like CF and UFA into a DPL like 2nd league to DA. But that’s for another day…
|
|
|
Post by 918soccer on Mar 11, 2020 16:26:52 GMT -5
Good question. I just looked. Real is in top 2 of the table in all DA age groups. Consistently in the 9/2 record range. Texans were all over the table--high/middle/low. (Frankly, not as high as I would have thought.) Even so, other clubs I mentioned from Concorde to PDA to Eclipse to Hawks were consistently high in the DA table before exiting. Several of the clubs who dropped GDA last year were first in their conference. Someone posted the complete list on the SCAL forum: VDA Burlingame FCKC Michigan Hawks PDA FC Stars Indiana Fire Orlando City Eclipse Boston Breakers Concorde Fire LAFC Slammers Crossfire Premier Eastside NYCFC Eagles SC Real Colorado Dallas Texans
|
|
|
Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 11, 2020 17:21:10 GMT -5
Good question. I just looked. Real is in top 2 of the table in all DA age groups. Consistently in the 9/2 record range. Texans were all over the table--high/middle/low. (Frankly, not as high as I would have thought.) Even so, other clubs I mentioned from Concorde to PDA to Eclipse to Hawks were consistently high in the DA table before exiting. Several of the clubs who dropped GDA last year were first in their conference. Someone posted the complete list on the SCAL forum: VDA Burlingame FCKC Michigan Hawks PDA FC Stars Indiana Fire Orlando City Eclipse Boston Breakers Concorde Fire LAFC Slammers Crossfire Premier Eastside NYCFC Eagles SC Real Colorado Dallas Texans There are some very good clubs on that list, but there are others that were only ok in their performance. Orlando City did fine, but wasn't killing it and still isn't killing it in ECNL. Burlingame could never field adequate teams in all age groups. (I think DA has figured this out and has decided to do on the girls side what they do on the boys and award some clubs a few age groups but not all). For all of the hype the loss of Texans is getting they were not doing well in U15 and U16 (9th and 10th respectively) their best age group (U17) was 4th. So they are not enough of a powerhouse to be lumped in with Real Colorado. Some of the other clubs I haven't heard of. I think that ECNL is doing the wrong thing to offer these clubs two teams to switch. It is just watering down their competition particularly for those clubs that left ECNL and are coming back. I think it is unfair to the clubs that were loyal as well. Those second teams ought to be dropped. For the players that are on the second team they are getting time at showcases, which is great, but it is still known to the college coaches that you are on the second team. That can't be good for recruiting if any of those kids are looking to play at a higher level. ECNL offers a good product and they were the first to market with that product so they have an edge. I am not convinced that their product is the best for every player though. I do think that foregoing high school soccer is good for some kids and some kids don't have a team to play for anyway (homeschool, hybrid school, some small private schools). While it is great that some kids love to play high school it is also great that there is a club product (DA) that has a strong option for soccer during the high school season. The war between ECNL and DA is just making things worse and ECNL needs some of the blame for the continued alphabet league explosion. They were the first to break out in any meaningful way. They responded to the threat of DA by offering deals to clubs and adding a U13 age group. They added ECNL to the boys side. They added ECRL to the mix. They are just as much to blame as everyone else.
|
|
|
Post by Soccerhouse on Mar 11, 2020 17:37:27 GMT -5
Once the clown show at the federation decide to proceed with Girls DA and not discussing with ECNL leadership - writing was on the wall for a war.
Yes - ecnl was And is not perfect , but it certainly checked the box for clubs based high level soccer.
The feds are losing this battle.
Can’t imagine coexisting like this is sustainable. - it defeats the purpose of having girls DA. Hell they are taking Concorde and Tophat girls for national teams - yet those 2 clubs don’t even play each other. That’s absurd. Stupid and ridiculous.
Will be interesting when the shoe starts dropping on the boys side next
|
|
|
Post by paythevig on Mar 18, 2020 16:49:25 GMT -5
... DA has now lost several great national clubs (Michigan Hawks, Mass/FC Stars, PDA, Texans, Real Colo, Eclipse, Concorde, etc.) and their great players after experiencing both DA/ECNL. ... I had been told that some (no, not all, just some) clubs withdrew from DA because they struggled to consistently compete at the DA level. Not true? Unfortunately you are missing facts/reality. Real Co won the first ever DA U17 National Championship. Not sure that is struggling. As others have eloquently pointed out, the clubs that have left DA haven't necessarily been bottom feeders. Real would have flipped previously, however ECNL refused to give two teams. TopHat would have flipped already as well if they could have received 2 teams. Look, TopHat is in one of the worst DA conferences in the league, heading to Florida and beating teams 20-0 is not developing players.
Look at SoCal Blues, they have both ECNL & DA - they have made DA teams their "B" team - Mostly because the coaches are also private school soccer coaches and the players go to their schools. Solar has both DA & ECNL, that is a mixed bag - the U17 DA team is coached by a wealthy (oil) father of one of the players - most of the girls on said team are home schooled - that team is an anomaly. And most are committed to Texas - Austin where the father/coach has a strong relationship.
Bottom line is, US Soccer screwed this up - they know their fix - it is a max of 30 clubs, HS Soccer run between Aug/Oct, Winter Showcase becomes a preseason tournament for College Recruitment (3 games/3 Days), Sub rule changes to, 3 moments, re-entry OK, League season begins in February and runs thru July. Finances can be negotiated.
|
|
|
Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 18, 2020 18:04:41 GMT -5
I had been told that some (no, not all, just some) clubs withdrew from DA because they struggled to consistently compete at the DA level. Not true? Unfortunately you are missing facts/reality. Real Co won the first ever DA U17 National Championship. Not sure that is struggling. As others have eloquently pointed out, the clubs that have left DA haven't necessarily been bottom feeders. Real would have flipped previously, however ECNL refused to give two teams. TopHat would have flipped already as well if they could have received 2 teams. Look, TopHat is in one of the worst DA conferences in the league, heading to Florida and beating teams 20-0 is not developing players.
Look at SoCal Blues, they have both ECNL & DA - they have made DA teams their "B" team - Mostly because the coaches are also private school soccer coaches and the players go to their schools. Solar has both DA & ECNL, that is a mixed bag - the U17 DA team is coached by a wealthy (oil) father of one of the players - most of the girls on said team are home schooled - that team is an anomaly. And most are committed to Texas - Austin where the father/coach has a strong relationship.
Bottom line is, US Soccer screwed this up - they know their fix - it is a max of 30 clubs, HS Soccer run between Aug/Oct, Winter Showcase becomes a preseason tournament for College Recruitment (3 games/3 Days), Sub rule changes to, 3 moments, re-entry OK, League season begins in February and runs thru July. Finances can be negotiated.
High school Aug-Oct doesn't work everywhere and not in the biggest market that loves DA...California. They are a winter high school state. Your so-called "fix" doesn't work...for DA or ECNL. Honestly the best fix is to go nationwide to one season for all sports. I don't care if it is Fall or Spring. Softball needs to do the same. Just imagine how much better high school and club sports would be if they all played the same season. I will reiterate that ECNL giving clubs 2 teams waters talent down just as badly as having both DA and ECNL at a club and is hypocritical to ECNL's mission of being the "best" league.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Mar 18, 2020 20:49:13 GMT -5
I will reiterate that ECNL giving clubs 2 teams waters talent down just as badly as having both DA and ECNL at a club and is hypocritical to ECNL's mission of being the "best" league. Doesn't it matter the size of the club, how "deep" it is also, though? I think there are exceptions to the rule based on talent and depth. Whether that is a combo ECNL/DA or two of the same league. If they are competitive, it should be considered.... sort of like a 1a/1b type of situation versus and obvious 1st vs 2nd difference. If one of the two tems wind up at the bottom and they had a relegation system, it would be better. This way two teams from the same club can both be at the same level based on promotion. Unfortunately, they don't have Promotion/Relegation so ECNL has to be limited on what clubs they would give the option for two teams to... I think NTH can pull off the 1a/1b in many ages... In fact, I remember one coach from NTH (at that level) telling me and some others that he thought their SCCL team was just the slightest bit better, in one particular age group. I know there some others that shared that opinion and and others that didn't, but the point is they were THAT close to each other. (Edit: This anecdotal evidence was from the 2018 season, before they decided to leave ECNL) BTW, how has both Concorde teams been placing in ECNL for each age group? I haven't followed closely, but when I do hear talk of ECNL, it appears that they are both deserving.... I just don't know for sure.
|
|
|
Post by messindreams on Mar 19, 2020 0:24:53 GMT -5
I will reiterate that ECNL giving clubs 2 teams waters talent down just as badly as having both DA and ECNL at a club and is hypocritical to ECNL's mission of being the "best" league. Doesn't it matter the size of the club, how "deep" it is also, though? I think there are exceptions to the rule based on talent and depth. Whether that is a combo ECNL/DA or two of the same league. If they are competitive, it should be considered.... sort of like a 1a/1b type of situation versus and obvious 1st vs 2nd difference. If one of the two tems wind up at the bottom and they had a relegation system, it would be better. This way two teams from the same club can both be at the same level based on promotion. Unfortunately, they don't have Promotion/Relegation so ECNL has to be limited on what clubs they would give the option for two teams to... I think NTH can pull off the 1a/1b in many ages... In fact, I remember one coach from NTH (at that level) telling me and some others that he thought their SCCL team was just the slightest bit better, in one particular age group. I know there some others that shared that opinion and and others that didn't, but the point is they were THAT close to each other. (Edit: This anecdotal evidence was from the 2018 season, before they decided to leave ECNL) BTW, how has both Concorde teams been placing in ECNL for each age group? I haven't followed closely, but when I do hear talk of ECNL, it appears that they are both deserving.... I just don't know for sure. Concorde's first team has Concorde girls and 2nd team has SSA girls as far as I know, so technically Concorde has two teams but truly two different clubs playing under one banner. Also, on boys side Concorde has both DA and ECNL. Last I checked, Concorde puts their first team in DA and 2nd team in ECNL.
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Mar 19, 2020 8:35:04 GMT -5
Doesn't it matter the size of the club, how "deep" it is also, though? I think there are exceptions to the rule based on talent and depth. Whether that is a combo ECNL/DA or two of the same league. If they are competitive, it should be considered.... sort of like a 1a/1b type of situation versus and obvious 1st vs 2nd difference. If one of the two tems wind up at the bottom and they had a relegation system, it would be better. This way two teams from the same club can both be at the same level based on promotion. Unfortunately, they don't have Promotion/Relegation so ECNL has to be limited on what clubs they would give the option for two teams to... I think NTH can pull off the 1a/1b in many ages... In fact, I remember one coach from NTH (at that level) telling me and some others that he thought their SCCL team was just the slightest bit better, in one particular age group. I know there some others that shared that opinion and and others that didn't, but the point is they were THAT close to each other. (Edit: This anecdotal evidence was from the 2018 season, before they decided to leave ECNL) BTW, how has both Concorde teams been placing in ECNL for each age group? I haven't followed closely, but when I do hear talk of ECNL, it appears that they are both deserving.... I just don't know for sure. Concorde's first team has Concorde girls and 2nd team has SSA girls as far as I know, so technically Concorde has two teams but truly two different clubs playing under one banner. Also, on boys side Concorde has both DA and ECNL. Last I checked, Concorde puts their first team in DA and 2nd team in ECNL. I know that to be true for the '05 and '06 age groups (the first year as a trial partnership, where they gave them the spot), but I thought in the 2nd year they opened it up for all of Concorde and SSA to try out for the ECNL teams? Is that not the case? Are you saying all 2nd teams with ECNL are the SSA teams?
|
|
|
Post by mistergrinch on Mar 19, 2020 9:47:59 GMT -5
Concorde's first team has Concorde girls and 2nd team has SSA girls as far as I know, so technically Concorde has two teams but truly two different clubs playing under one banner. Also, on boys side Concorde has both DA and ECNL. Last I checked, Concorde puts their first team in DA and 2nd team in ECNL. I know that to be true for the '05 and '06 age groups (the first year as a trial partnership, where they gave them the spot), but I thought in the 2nd year they opened it up for all of Concorde and SSA to try out for the ECNL teams? Is that not the case? Are you saying all 2nd teams with ECNL are the SSA teams? Either way, it's really players from two clubs.. not two teams from one club
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Mar 19, 2020 13:43:00 GMT -5
I know that to be true for the '05 and '06 age groups (the first year as a trial partnership, where they gave them the spot), but I thought in the 2nd year they opened it up for all of Concorde and SSA to try out for the ECNL teams? Is that not the case? Are you saying all 2nd teams with ECNL are the SSA teams? Either way, it's really players from two clubs.. not two teams from one club Agreed.
|
|
|
Post by fridge on Mar 23, 2020 8:44:33 GMT -5
The CF ECNL teams in the 02, 03 and 04 age groups are CF originated teams--first team is ex-DA team and 2nd team is the second team playing in ECNL. SSA has "second" team at 05 and 06. I'm not sure what the future plans would be.
|
|
|
Post by Strikeorkeep on Mar 23, 2020 10:28:01 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by soccerlegacy on Mar 23, 2020 10:38:57 GMT -5
Wow! UFA gets ECNL... good for them! I think they will be happy with that decision. Now, what are they to do about that NPL group? Also, Tophat is now really isolated. The only DA and DPL club in Atlanta...
|
|