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Post by Futsal Gawdess on May 25, 2020 11:56:03 GMT -5
From my personal experience, I believe most of the credit for developing a player should go to the actual player and to a lesser extent to the parents/guardians of the player. For you to be a phenomenal player, it starts with your drive to be good, to get better or to flat out be the best(can't be taught). You sprinkle in a little motivation from the parents, coupled with their time & money for training/privates and a picture starts to form. Additionally, every really good soccer family I have ever chatted with have that one coach by whom they swear by. He/she was the one to release the true potential from their kid. The one they return to for years and years for advice, guidance and sometimes training.
I think what a good club does is try to collate these self motivated players, put them on a team together so these players are in an environment to motivate and bring out the best in each other. If you happen to be at a well known club, you also give the team and the players the platform to be seen by the right set of eyes. Think Atlanta United and formerly NTH. The best scouts know the quality of players based on the club's history or philosophy.
You put those together and you get a picture that club x can't really be gifted the title of "we developed player x" Again, this is just my opinion...
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Post by soccernotfootball on May 25, 2020 12:02:14 GMT -5
From my personal experience, I believe most of the credit for developing a player should go to the actual player and to a lesser extent to the parents/guardians of the player. For you to be a phenomenal player, it starts with your drive to be good, to get better or to flat out be the best(can't be taught). You sprinkle in a little motivation from the parents, coupled with their time & money for training/privates and a picture starts to form. Additionally, every really good soccer family I have ever chatted with have that one coach by whom they swear by. He/she was the one to release the true potential from their kid. The one they return to for years and years for advice, guidance and sometimes training. I think what a good club does is try to collate these self motivated players, put them on a team together so these players are in an environment to motivate and bring out the best in each other. If you happen to be at a well known club, you also give the team and the players the platform to be seen by the right set of eyes. Think Atlanta United and formerly NTH. The best scouts know the quality of players based on the club's history or philosophy. You put those together and you get a picture that club x can't really be gifted the title of "we developed player x" Again, this is just my opinion... ^^^ this times 100! |
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Post by greenmonkey on May 25, 2020 12:10:36 GMT -5
I agree KID, COACH then CLUB ... then team then league
the KID providing the motivation and drive
the COACH proving the knowledge, skills, expertise
the CLUB provides the KID an opportunity to play on a TEAM and
LASTLY and LEAST important
The league provides the opportunity for teams to play each other.
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Post by atlfutboldad on May 25, 2020 12:24:16 GMT -5
I agree with FG that parents likely play the 2nd biggest role. They provide inspiration/consolation/ dedication as well as setup/pay for the private training. All the best players on any team train privately, and the very best ones will additionally train on their own. Parents also help determine the club and team their child should play on. Coaches and clubs come and go, the other 2 factors have to remain active. As the child gets older they need to burden more and more of the responsibility that the parents do prior to HS.
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Post by rifle on May 25, 2020 12:41:11 GMT -5
Of course a player will improve over time and will improve faster playing with/against players at a comparable level. Of course a good club curriculum/philosophy and coach (and avoidance of injury) are important. But only a player controls his/her ultimate potential. I think clubs and leagues would be more honest if they bragged about facilitating player “discovery” rather than “development”.
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Post by liverpoolfc on May 25, 2020 13:12:11 GMT -5
I totally agree with everyone's input.Development starts with the player, the drive and motivation to become better. Then the parents, the coach and eventually the club with whom the player represent. I think if everyone on this forum can recognize this point of view on player developments, each thread should be about players and not bout dragging clubs and pointing fingers to which one does what for a player.
I'm new in Ga but yall are funny humans on this forum.
Have a Happy and Safe Memorial Day.
"Remember and Honor"
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Post by soccerparent02 on May 25, 2020 13:57:06 GMT -5
I say Coach then player. A player can have determination, drive and work ethic. Without the proper direction and encouragement from a coach, those are wasted. Speaking from experience...
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Post by liverpoolfc on May 25, 2020 14:29:56 GMT -5
soccerparent02 I disagree, starts with a player, parents (maybe) environment that player grew up in and then coach and club. Yes i'm speaking from experience as well.
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Post by soccerparent02 on May 25, 2020 15:12:12 GMT -5
We will have to disagree then. A player with no coaching will never develop to their fullest. YouTube only takes you so far not to mention the connections a Coach has for further development and potential exposure to higher levels.
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Post by mightydawg on May 25, 2020 15:19:20 GMT -5
We will have to disagree then. A player with no coaching will never develop to their fullest. YouTube only takes you so far not to mention the connections a Coach has for further development and potential exposure to higher levels. But a coach is not going to recommend a player that does not have drive and determination for any of those other opportunities. The player reflects on the coach |
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Post by oraclesfriend on May 25, 2020 15:21:58 GMT -5
I say Coach then player. A player can have determination, drive and work ethic. Without the proper direction and encouragement from a coach, those are wasted. Speaking from experience... I would partially agree with your statement but amend it to say that it starts with the player, but even players that have determination, drive, work ethic and passion CAN be derailed by a coach that does not provide direction and encouragement. One of our players has had a few of these coaches in the past and has had to work hard to get/stay on track when these coaches like that get in the way. |
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Post by footyfan on May 25, 2020 15:27:27 GMT -5
I agree player>parents>coach>team>club>league
In soccer the things to the right of parents gain in importance starting later in a child's life(13+)
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Post by liverpoolfc on May 25, 2020 15:29:24 GMT -5
We will have to disagree then. A player with no coaching will never develop to their fullest. YouTube only takes you so far not to mention the connections a Coach has for further development and potential exposure to higher levels. looking beyond American border, and think about players that really don't have a coach for connection or youtube yet have drive and determination with abundant talent. |
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Post by soccerparent02 on May 25, 2020 16:22:23 GMT -5
Here is a link from just one club that indicates your statement may not be totally accurate. www.goal.com/en-us/news/inside-tabarezs-youth-system-that-ensures-tiny-uruguay-will-keep-/10hrmw8fr3pow1p7gfsqu472s0Research Messi who at age 13 was signed and coached by an Argentine Academy before his eventual move to Barcelona. We forget that in the US, kids have more options. Soccer doesn't always have the best athletes top to bottom that other countries have. Football is relatively only played in the US. Baseball, softball, volleyball, track, basketball, etc. all siphon players. Soccer is the top sport in most countries outside the US. |
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Post by rifle on May 25, 2020 17:22:57 GMT -5
While I absolutely agree that the worlds greatest players also happen to be athletic freak shows.. a lack of athleticism is honestly not in the top ten list of soccer’s problems in this country..
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Post by soccerparent02 on May 25, 2020 18:07:55 GMT -5
My point was development is not possible without good coaching regardless. I agree there are other issues that need addressed to get us to another level.
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Post by holding on May 25, 2020 18:11:03 GMT -5
While I absolutely agree that the worlds greatest players also happen to be athletic freak shows.. a lack of athleticism is honestly not in the top ten list of soccer’s problems in this country.. I agree with most of the opinions on soccer players development. The one thing that isn't listed as a prerequisite is to play for Tophat if you are a girl. I felt like I should add that for any aspiring player who wants to be great. The develop their own home grown players and for years at 13 have taken girls from clubs all over Atlanta and developed them as well since they haven't started the process yet. |
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Post by atlutd17 on May 25, 2020 18:33:55 GMT -5
While I absolutely agree that the worlds greatest players also happen to be athletic freak shows.. a lack of athleticism is honestly not in the top ten list of soccer’s problems in this country.. I agree with most of the opinions on soccer players development. The one thing that isn't listed as a prerequisite is to play for Tophat if you are a girl. I felt like I should add that for any aspiring player who wants to be great. The develop their own home grown players and for years at 13 have taken girls from clubs all over Atlanta and developed them as well since they haven't started the process yet. I feel I should also add TH (and ECNL) have taken most of the top 10% of the best athletes and talent at 13U, AND every year after that. When the odds of a soccer player to make it to the very top is far less than 1%, statistically TH and ECNL are 99% more likely to put a player on the USWNT pool or a top D1 school than a club without such players any longer, and that would be on player's work ethics, talent & toughness, before even coaching becomes a factor. PLAYER gets it done. That's a major reputation builder for the clubs and a glass ceiling for the other clubs once you look at the way ECNL criteria are set up, outside politics. Not underestimating coaching. Once you add the coaching factor (and they do have some good ones at TH) the odds go higher, but that's not to say the same could not have happened at another club under good coaching and team too, and maybe just maybe in that case the competition would have been better with less local teams getting dismantled at 13 by parents always chasing the shiny league, and far less travel than going to Miami to win ... 6-0 with the shiny league (example). What if the shiny leagues weren't exclusive but based on team merit like the old days? Would those top players have still left their clubs? History shows some would have, but many others would not have. And by general admission our system today is not better nor has it produced more or better players than those we had 10+ years ago. Food for thought how things could improve while reducing the cost in both money and time. |
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Post by dadofthree on May 25, 2020 18:56:25 GMT -5
From my personal experience, I believe most of the credit for developing a player should go to the actual player and to a lesser extent to the parents/guardians of the player. For you to be a phenomenal player, it starts with your drive to be good, to get better or to flat out be the best(can't be taught). You sprinkle in a little motivation from the parents, coupled with their time & money for training/privates and a picture starts to form. Additionally, every really good soccer family I have ever chatted with have that one coach by whom they swear by. He/she was the one to release the true potential from their kid. The one they return to for years and years for advice, guidance and sometimes training. I think what a good club does is try to collate these self motivated players, put them on a team together so these players are in an environment to motivate and bring out the best in each other. If you happen to be at a well known club, you also give the team and the players the platform to be seen by the right set of eyes. Think Atlanta United and formerly NTH. The best scouts know the quality of players based on the club's history or philosophy. You put those together and you get a picture that club x can't really be gifted the title of "we developed player x" Again, this is just my opinion... I cant agree with you more. The player is the first and foremost person in this equation. Without the desire and the want to - I dont care what coach you have it just wont work. You need to want to do those runs when no one is watching and do the extra training and do it correctly (no shortcuts) and when it is not working be able to get their mind in the right place to know they just need to keep grinding. All that being said I also agree that having that one or two coaches that always seemed to be in the players corner is also critical. They are the support system of these players, they know when to kick them, when to consol them and when they are tempted to wander get them back on track. Without both it can be difficult to succeed. I dont put as much into the league, team or club so long as it is competative and the player is not just walking over those in it. This means for the forum that for the vast majority of players whether you are ECNL, GA, UFA, TH, Concorde, AFU or GSA it doesnt matter since they all fit the definition of being competative and thats all that matters. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on May 25, 2020 19:30:40 GMT -5
Players come first - but the player needs someone to believe in them - a parent and coach etc.
Not someone to tell them they are the greatest thing since sliced bread - but someone to embrace that they have talent and with hard work and dedication they can do anything they want.
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Post by liverpoolfc on May 25, 2020 20:40:24 GMT -5
Players come first - but the player needs someone to belive in them - a parent and coach etc. Not someone to tell them they are the greatest thing since sliced bread - but someone to embrace that they have talent and with hard work and dedication they can do anything they want. exactly, unfortunately we have people who strongly believe other wise |
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Post by oldhat on May 26, 2020 8:31:12 GMT -5
If you want development to improve for everyone the entire soccer community needs a change of mentality.
Parents need to seek out competition for their kids. Being guaranteed a position on a team or a starting position does nothing to develop drive. When you are not performing, "Well I am still a starter."
Coaches need to stop being afraid of competing within a club. Scrimmage the next lower team. They will challenge and push them. Don't be afraid to be honest with kids. Tell them you will do everything to make them better, but if a better player comes along they could be replaced.
Directors push for kids within a league to be replaced by someone in the same club. If someone is not bringing their best let them be replaced. This is why academy pools are great.
Players...seek out the best competition you can for teammates.
Iron sharpens Iron and snowflakes melt.
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Post by liverpoolfc on May 26, 2020 9:11:17 GMT -5
oldhat I am 100% agree with you. See the problem with American youth sport is what you just described. Soccer specifically has failed in many levels. Look at ECNL, closed doors to teams that can challenge other talents in every region in the States. I just wish top talents can play against top players, that way America will produce world champions in every youth national teams.
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