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Post by baller84 on May 27, 2020 16:41:14 GMT -5
Despite the rise of the MLS, men's college soccer has remained under the radar and far too minor compared to football and basketball in college athletics. DI football continues to fund most sports in a college. College soccer is barely watchable nor it generates enough revenue for the schools and often costs more. In addition an other drawback and for years now, the ridiculous NCCA rules applied to soccer have proven to hinder the development of top players towards a pro career at a critical age. The USNT and U23 teams, the MLS Superdraft quality and lack of depth speak volumes on how far back we still are.
With the new USL 15-19U academy next year, USL2 for top college players and semi pros already in place along with the pathways to year round USL1, USL Championship and ultimately mighty MLS, has the time come where we'll begin to see those players going pro straight out of HS, or, combining USL with college education funded through other means of financial aid?
Could we be entering a new era? Thoughts?
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Post by rifle on May 27, 2020 17:16:14 GMT -5
It’s... possible. We know the country likes soccer. I like any soccer but I think college soccer is a glorified track meet on grass - a direct result of the substitution rules.
But MLS stacked the deck against everyone else - so the incentive to invest in low(er) level soccer is nonexistent. A handful of generous owners will continue to knowingly piss money away while others come and go (when they realize the lack of a path upward means it’s a caste system).
If you’re new here.. I’m the resident drum hitter for #ProRelForUSA. It irritates some people but I will get over it.
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Post by bogan on May 27, 2020 17:37:47 GMT -5
“If you’re new here.. I’m the resident drum hitter for #ProRelForUSA. It irritates some people but I will get over it.”
🤣 At least you are honest 😂
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Post by paterfamilias on May 28, 2020 4:53:22 GMT -5
There is a possibility they can co-exist, the USL and college soccer. I think a harbinger is how the G league plays out in basketball. There are players foregoing their "one and done" year in college to play G-league. If that becomes successful, the MLS will copycat.
There will always be some appetite for school competition which makes the complete elimination of men's college soccer unlikely.
Also count me in on the #proreg train!
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Post by mistergrinch on May 28, 2020 7:28:32 GMT -5
I'll be contrarian and say .. no.
Hell, MLS is still scraping by in a lot of places. Not every stadium is putting in >50k every game like ATL does. Soccer doesn't yet have the rabid following that football or even basketball/baseball do here in the states - and look how well minor league baseball does (it's fun to go, but not exactly a hard-to-get ticket).
No way anybody goes to watch USL more than they do today.
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Post by baller84 on May 28, 2020 8:40:46 GMT -5
I'll be contrarian and say .. no. Hell, MLS is still scraping by in a lot of places. Not every stadium is putting in >50k every game like ATL does. Soccer doesn't yet have the rabid following that football or even basketball/baseball do here in the states - and look how well minor league baseball does (it's fun to go, but not exactly a hard-to-get ticket). No way anybody goes to watch USL more than they do today. MLS can but is too small of a pool for such a development project, let alone the fact many MLS owners are nothing like Arthur, nor have a Daren or Carlos or Tony who truly believe in investing in player development and actually do it. USL owners can invest the money and many of them have committed to do so because they want to and can afford it. They're not all out to make money, and won't fill the seats. Usually they lose money and they know they will lose more, but not always, if they hit a gem or are in a good market, or both. College soccer on the other hand never got it done, and isn't going to. Most fans are students anyway and get in for free. And yes a degree is a degree but we're talking path to pro and in that, more careers have been ruined than made through college. |
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Post by atv on May 28, 2020 9:47:20 GMT -5
USL is already much larger than men’s college soccer in terms of revenue, club value, venue size, etc.
One thing to consider with any of the non revenue producing sports is the amount of scholarships and actual costs associated with the program. Men’s soccer, if fully funded, only can give 9.9 scholarships per squad. Most of the athletes are on only partial scholarships or no scholarship, meaning a team roster could have the equivalent of numerous athletes paying full tuition. So cutting a sport might reduce expenses for an athletics department yet cause a net revenue loss for a school more broadly.
Also, travel is one of the big expenses and men’s soccer programs are already looking at creative ways to reduce travel expenses including more regional scheduling.
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Post by soccerworld1974 on May 28, 2020 23:11:17 GMT -5
Where does USL get their revenue? I question as what is possibly the issue with D1 is the same for USL given the factors are different as college football is a major factor to college soccer.
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Post by mistergrinch on May 29, 2020 7:25:44 GMT -5
Where does USL get their revenue? I question as what is possibly the issue with D1 is the same for USL given the factors are different as college football is a major factor to college soccer. The issue with D1 is numbers. Imagine if there were 200 USL teams playing in 20 different divisions.. competition would be weak at best.
There are currently around 800 men's college soccer teams in D1-3.
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Post by atlutd17 on May 29, 2020 8:23:17 GMT -5
Where does USL get their revenue? I question as what is possibly the issue with D1 is the same for USL given the factors are different as college football is a major factor to college soccer. The issue with D1 is numbers. Imagine if there were 200 USL teams playing in 20 different divisions.. competition would be weak at best.
There are currently around 800 men's college soccer teams in D1-3.
And countries that beat us in the WC / qualifiers have twice that many grassroots teams competing even in one city! And they're serious, and they all play because they want to and because they can. |
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Post by mistergrinch on May 29, 2020 11:20:08 GMT -5
The issue with D1 is numbers. Imagine if there were 200 USL teams playing in 20 different divisions.. competition would be weak at best.
There are currently around 800 men's college soccer teams in D1-3.
And countries that beat us in the WC / qualifiers have twice that many grassroots teams competing even in one city! And they're serious, and they all play because they want to and because they can. ..and again, those clubs aren't competing with 5-6 other sports that have professional leagues that pay WAY better, significantly more television coverage, more college scholarship opportunities, and a far longer history of youth sports in the US. I think we often forget how new soccer is in the US. How many pro leagues have failed. How little it's watched on television vs other sports. We are still in the 'baby steps' phase, yet keep wondering why we're not England. |
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Post by atlutd17 on May 29, 2020 12:39:13 GMT -5
And countries that beat us in the WC / qualifiers have twice that many grassroots teams competing even in one city! And they're serious, and they all play because they want to and because they can. ..and again, those clubs aren't competing with 5-6 other sports that have professional leagues that pay WAY better, significantly more television coverage, more college scholarship opportunities, and a far longer history of youth sports in the US. I think we often forget how new soccer is in the US. How many pro leagues have failed. How little it's watched on television vs other sports. We are still in the 'baby steps' phase, yet keep wondering why we're not England. Talking Pro you missed the point. Those academies are from amateur or low budget semi pro clubs 5-20 minutes apart from each other, not the big leagues. Hundreds of teams, thousands of players. No TV and run on low cost basics. Grassroots. And excluding half the country or having ECNL exclusive rights to less than a handful clubs monopolizing the market of a state, we will never get close have those numbers, but go the other way. Another poster nailed it best shifting the attention at the alarming number of kids dropping out of the sport between 10 and 14. Those are the critical ages that the exact opposite happens elsewhere, and if you think it's only bc of the other sports and socioeconomics in US, you only see a fraction of the reasons ... |
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Post by mistergrinch on May 29, 2020 13:35:23 GMT -5
..and again, those clubs aren't competing with 5-6 other sports that have professional leagues that pay WAY better, significantly more television coverage, more college scholarship opportunities, and a far longer history of youth sports in the US. I think we often forget how new soccer is in the US. How many pro leagues have failed. How little it's watched on television vs other sports. We are still in the 'baby steps' phase, yet keep wondering why we're not England. Talking Pro you missed the point. Those academies are from amateur or low budget semi pro clubs 5-20 minutes apart from each other, not the big leagues. Hundreds of teams, thousands of players. No TV and run on low cost basics. Grassroots. And excluding half the country or having ECNL exclusive rights to less than a handful clubs monopolizing the market of a state, we will never get close have those numbers, but go the other way. Another poster nailed it best shifting the attention at the alarming number of kids dropping out of the sport between 10 and 14. Those are the critical ages that the exact opposite happens elsewhere, and if you think it's only bc of the other sports and socioeconomics in US, you only see a fraction of the reasons ... whoooosh...
The point about pro is that it's the dream for kids. Little johnny point guard wants to play in the NBA.. the majority of the kids in the US probably have never seen an MLS game on television. If you don't think that plays into it at all - well, there's no convincing.
As for the dropout rate - I was once told by a college coach that with girls it's somewhere around 70% in all sports combined. For boys it's a lot less.. but still fairly high. The difference is, they play in high school.. do they have HS sports in other countries like they do here? it's certainly not nearly as big.. they also have virtually no college sports most other places.
The US is just so fundamentally different than most other countries that it's really hard to point to someone else and say 'lets do that'.
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Post by atlutd17 on May 29, 2020 14:25:08 GMT -5
Talking Pro you missed the point. Those academies are from amateur or low budget semi pro clubs 5-20 minutes apart from each other, not the big leagues. Hundreds of teams, thousands of players. No TV and run on low cost basics. Grassroots. And excluding half the country or having ECNL exclusive rights to less than a handful clubs monopolizing the market of a state, we will never get close have those numbers, but go the other way. Another poster nailed it best shifting the attention at the alarming number of kids dropping out of the sport between 10 and 14. Those are the critical ages that the exact opposite happens elsewhere, and if you think it's only bc of the other sports and socioeconomics in US, you only see a fraction of the reasons ... whoooosh...
The point about pro is that it's the dream for kids. Little johnny point guard wants to play in the NBA.. the majority of the kids in the US probably have never seen an MLS game on television. If you don't think that plays into it at all - well, there's no convincing.
As for the dropout rate - I was once told by a college coach that with girls it's somewhere around 70% in all sports combined. For boys it's a lot less.. but still fairly high. The difference is, they play in high school.. do they have HS sports in other countries like they do here? it's certainly not nearly as big.. they also have virtually no college sports most other places.
The US is just so fundamentally different than most other countries that it's really hard to point to someone else and say 'lets do that'.
That's why only the USL new structure growing and hitting on the grassroots of every part of the country and state can change that, but will take years. I don't see a quick fix but I hope there is one out there. |
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