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Post by Soccerhouse on Jun 12, 2020 8:56:25 GMT -5
I'll beat it to death, the fact that in soccer they care more about identifying players at u15 vs u21-23 will forever harm the game in this country.
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Post by baller84 on Jun 12, 2020 11:36:06 GMT -5
I'll beat it to death, the fact that in soccer they care more about identifying players at u15 vs u21-23 will forever harm the game in this country. Considering how young some of the best players in the world were when they were identified and when/how they became pro first time, it's more what they do with those players in this country when they don't have the structures in place, nor invest in the proper resources to develop them (they thought they did know and here we are). Given the current state of things, I agree. They should leave them alone. |
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Post by baller84 on Jun 12, 2020 11:41:58 GMT -5
Miles Robinson and Julian Gressel are on the phone. They disagree. If I could like this 1000 times I would. Both of these guys were overlooked/late bloomers. Both are good players. Will Gressel ever play for the German National team, very doubtful, but I think if he wanted to go back to Germany he could easily play in the Bundesliga. He would not be on Bayern or Dortmund but I could see him on other teams. Miles is a typical center back. They take more time to mature. He will do very well if he can stay out of the doctor's office. As good as both Miles and Julian are, they and many others would be better players today had they been in a different environment last 4 years before they crossed paths with Atlanta Utd. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jun 12, 2020 11:46:40 GMT -5
If I could like this 1000 times I would. Both of these guys were overlooked/late bloomers. Both are good players. Will Gressel ever play for the German National team, very doubtful, but I think if he wanted to go back to Germany he could easily play in the Bundesliga. He would not be on Bayern or Dortmund but I could see him on other teams. Miles is a typical center back. They take more time to mature. He will do very well if he can stay out of the doctor's office. As good as both Miles and Julian are, they and many others would be better players today had they been in a different environment last 4 years before they crossed paths with Atlanta Utd. Don't forget that Gressel was in a European environment and had tapped out there. He came to college here and got a second chance. |
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Post by toonarmy on Jun 12, 2020 12:19:57 GMT -5
I guess the argument goes that by the time someone reaches 18 and goes to play at college their bad habits are ingrained/if their skills have not already been honed it's too late.
College soccer is competitive so they are not developing players any more at that point -> that would have to change some.
MLS/USSF wants the kids earlier to ensure the fundamentals are in place and funnel them into their MLS academies.... but the funnel is way way too narrow to capture the potential talent pool that's out there.
College soccer is a huge funnel but isn't producing the (number of) players in the profile required by MLS/USSF....
From what I gather MLB shuns the college path for ball players (same reasons?)... but they have the advantage of decades of experience in building farm teams and the nature of youth baseball leagues to build from.
USSF has just shut down it's premier program to develop youth talent... what next?
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Post by baller84 on Jun 12, 2020 12:23:13 GMT -5
As good as both Miles and Julian are, they and many others would be better players today had they been in a different environment last 4 years before they crossed paths with Atlanta Utd. Don't forget that Gressel was in a European environment and had tapped out there. He came to college here and got a second chance. Fair point on Julian even though we do not know if had in fact tapped out or just made the choice to get a degree here while playing soccer. Second, MLS in not at the level of a top European League and, when he was drafted 4 years ago many will argue MLS was not even at the level of a 2nd division top European League. Whether he became good enough to actually play at a top league in Europe remains to be seen and would be mostly thanks to Tata and the MLS. And cases like these are bright exceptions, not the rule. There should have been dozens of such players in every draft if the system worked at all. |
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Post by baller84 on Jun 12, 2020 12:28:33 GMT -5
I guess the argument goes that by the time someone reaches 18 and goes to play at college their bad habits are ingrained/if their skills have not already been honed it's too late. College soccer is competitive so they are not developing players any more at that point -> that would have to change some. MLS/USSF wants the kids earlier to ensure the fundamentals are in place and funnel them into their MLS academies.... but the funnel is way way too narrow to capture the potential talent pool that's out there. College soccer is a huge funnel but isn't producing the (number of) players in the profile required by MLS/USSF.... From what I gather MLB shuns the college path for ball players (same reasons?)... but they have the advantage of decades of experience in building farm teams and the nature of youth baseball leagues to build from. USSF has just shut down it's premier program to develop youth talent... what next? College soccer is a whole other animal in lack of development at a crucial stage: 90% of the blame is on the NCAA and 10% on the college programs. |
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Post by rifle on Jun 13, 2020 7:02:42 GMT -5
The perpetual promise of “ten more years”.
Meanwhile.. churn churn churn, since the top is more interested in real estate development than soccer. It’s such a shame as we’re into a third generation of soccer players and the marketplace is ready for more.
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Post by soccerworld1974 on Jun 13, 2020 12:36:07 GMT -5
Having gone through the college soccer scene as a player and numerous family members doing the same with many playing D1, have to say that the level coaching in the college ranks is very poor. Many of the "youth" coaches are at a much higher level and the schools would be better served to open their resources but know $ controls everything for many, coaching club ball is more stable.
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Post by SoccerMom on Jun 13, 2020 12:52:24 GMT -5
Having gone through the college soccer scene as a player and numerous family members doing the same with many playing D1, have to say that the level coaching in the college ranks is very poor. Many of the "youth" coaches are at a much higher level and the schools would be better served to open their resources but know $ controls everything for many, coaching club ball is more stable. I have seen a lot of kids go back to their club coaches for training in their free time |
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Post by insideinfo on Jun 13, 2020 13:14:46 GMT -5
Until the USSF sorts this out don't expect to see the men's National team going anywhere. Once they have something workable in place add another 10+ years for things to grow... going to be a while.. What do y'all think? I doubt Zlatan paid for his kids to play 😂 The US has a broken soccer system and it will be a long time until its fixed. Until we do an overhaul of the USSF nothing will change. Our scouting system simply sucks and we will lose talent overseas. The MNT is horrendous The USWNT is circling the same older players instead of getting the younger ones prepared for the future |
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Post by insideinfo on Jun 13, 2020 13:19:58 GMT -5
I know it's not aligned with the rest of the world as far as soccer development, but the US college system for sports is unique.... it's already there and the infrastructure and distribution of colleges creates National coverage the USSF craves. Why don't they try and team/align/invest in this system and create something workable. I get that for a lot of kids if they've got the skills they are doing it professionally at 17/18/19... there are a lot of late bloomers out there too... Shaka Hislop came through the US system and did OK for himself. Ian Wright in didn't break through into the English Football League until his early 20s. I'm sure there are lots of other examples out there... If this system can produce top class basketball players why not soccer players.... ...because domestic pro soccer is maybe 12-20th best in the world and we have a caste system that is designed to prevent success in “lower” leagues, because it wouldn’t be profitable for a handful of MLS owners.. and the voting federation members (Youth soccer, adult amateur, etc) are too busy trying to keep their cash cow fed to care about systemic improvements. ..And college soccer doesn’t use pro soccer substitution rules so it isn’t really even the same game. It’s a track meet on grass. Why would a pro club want a player who basically lost 1-4 prime playing years in that environment? Are we really going to start discouraging kids from going to college and go pro instead with the hopes that they will make it one day? Or until a club finds their new shiny player? Or they get a serious injury and can't play again? Look at our own homegrown AC, where is he at now? Will he ever make it and if he doesn't what will he do? He doesn't have a backup plan when shizat doesn't work out. No education, no job experience |
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Post by atlutd17 on Jun 13, 2020 14:16:06 GMT -5
...because domestic pro soccer is maybe 12-20th best in the world and we have a caste system that is designed to prevent success in “lower” leagues, because it wouldn’t be profitable for a handful of MLS owners.. and the voting federation members (Youth soccer, adult amateur, etc) are too busy trying to keep their cash cow fed to care about systemic improvements. ..And college soccer doesn’t use pro soccer substitution rules so it isn’t really even the same game. It’s a track meet on grass. Why would a pro club want a player who basically lost 1-4 prime playing years in that environment? Are we really going to start discouraging kids from going to college and go pro instead with the hopes that they will make it one day? Or until a club finds their new shiny player? Or they get a serious injury and can't play again? Look at our own homegrown AC, where is he at now? Will he ever make it and if he doesn't what will he do? He doesn't have a backup plan when shizat doesn't work out. No education, no job experience What is stopping AC or any talented player his age from graduating HS, and going to college if they put their mind to it? What is stopping any active MLS player to get a degree even online or over many years? Two things here: 1) It's not that simple with AC, and 2) You're focusing on the exception, not the rule. NCAA has ruined college soccer with its rules. Sure, go get a degree but play on a USL team if you're good enough, or DI without a scholarship or DIII and have some fun. It may take more than 4 or 5 years but so what? I know doctors who have done it under far more difficult circumstances. Orthopedic surgeons today, who also played pro and even played on their National teams. Difficult but doable and great role models for kids to follow. No excuses. |
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Post by SoccerMom on Jun 13, 2020 17:37:13 GMT -5
Are we really going to start discouraging kids from going to college and go pro instead with the hopes that they will make it one day? Or until a club finds their new shiny player? Or they get a serious injury and can't play again? Look at our own homegrown AC, where is he at now? Will he ever make it and if he doesn't what will he do? He doesn't have a backup plan when shizat doesn't work out. No education, no job experience What is stopping AC or any talented player his age from graduating HS, and going to college if they put their mind to it? What is stopping any active MLS player to get a degree even online or over many years? Two things here: 1) It's not that simple with AC, and 2) You're focusing on the exception, not the rule. NCAA has ruined college soccer with its rules. Sure, go get a degree but play on a USL team if you're good enough, or DI without a scholarship or DIII and have some fun. It may take more than 4 or 5 years but so what? I know doctors who have done it under far more difficult circumstances. Orthopedic surgeons today, who also played pro and even played on their National teams. Difficult but doable and great role models for kids to follow. No excuses. They sell them a dream at a young age. AC ended up dropping out of HS and getting his GED Its not the exception, its very hard to make it |
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Post by atlutd17 on Jun 13, 2020 18:38:41 GMT -5
What is stopping AC or any talented player his age from graduating HS, and going to college if they put their mind to it? What is stopping any active MLS player to get a degree even online or over many years? Two things here: 1) It's not that simple with AC, and 2) You're focusing on the exception, not the rule. NCAA has ruined college soccer with its rules. Sure, go get a degree but play on a USL team if you're good enough, or DI without a scholarship or DIII and have some fun. It may take more than 4 or 5 years but so what? I know doctors who have done it under far more difficult circumstances. Orthopedic surgeons today, who also played pro and even played on their National teams. Difficult but doable and great role models for kids to follow. No excuses. They sell them a dream at a young age. AC ended up dropping out of HS and getting his GED Its not the exception, its very hard to make it It's even harder than that and that's what makes it even more worth it. But again, vast majority, most players are nowhere near that level to the point they would have to drop out of school, in the sense of the rule vs the exception. So important to fall in honest hands. |
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Post by rifle on Jun 13, 2020 19:50:25 GMT -5
...because domestic pro soccer is maybe 12-20th best in the world and we have a caste system that is designed to prevent success in “lower” leagues, because it wouldn’t be profitable for a handful of MLS owners.. and the voting federation members (Youth soccer, adult amateur, etc) are too busy trying to keep their cash cow fed to care about systemic improvements. ..And college soccer doesn’t use pro soccer substitution rules so it isn’t really even the same game. It’s a track meet on grass. Why would a pro club want a player who basically lost 1-4 prime playing years in that environment? Are we really going to start discouraging kids from going to college and go pro instead with the hopes that they will make it one day? Or until a club finds their new shiny player? Or they get a serious injury and can't play again? Look at our own homegrown AC, where is he at now? Will he ever make it and if he doesn't what will he do? He doesn't have a backup plan when shizat doesn't work out. No education, no job experience If a legitimate pyramid existed in this country, there would be more than a bunch of dead ends. I find it really unfortunate that so few MLS draft picks don’t even get signed by MLS.. And pro women are lucky to earn $20k..so I’m vocal about the systemic problems. I love the game but I’m not a believer that our system is intended to do anything except extract maximum profit from willing suckers. It’s a crying shame that it isn’t built to identify and sort via competition. edit: and reward clubs that support that journey ...And AC earned many opportunities. IMO he should have gone across the pond when the interest was there - better to struggle in their academies and fight for an opportunity at SOME level - but everybody cuts their own deal. When the dream eventually dies he would do well to enroll in college. |
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Post by insideinfo on Jun 14, 2020 18:58:42 GMT -5
Are we really going to start discouraging kids from going to college and go pro instead with the hopes that they will make it one day? Or until a club finds their new shiny player? Or they get a serious injury and can't play again? Look at our own homegrown AC, where is he at now? Will he ever make it and if he doesn't what will he do? He doesn't have a backup plan when shizat doesn't work out. No education, no job experience If a legitimate pyramid existed in this country, there would be more than a bunch of dead ends. I find it really unfortunate that so few MLS draft picks don’t even get signed by MLS.. And pro women are lucky to earn $20k..so I’m vocal about the systemic problems. I love the game but I’m not a believer that our system is intended to do anything except extract maximum profit from willing suckers. It’s a crying shame that it isn’t built to identify and sort via competition. edit: and reward clubs that support that journey ...And AC earned many opportunities. IMO he should have gone across the pond when the interest was there - better to struggle in their academies and fight for an opportunity at SOME level - but everybody cuts their own deal. When the dream eventually dies he would do well to enroll in college. He tried to play in Europe but due to circumstances he couldn't. He also had a chance to play in Mexico AC has no interest in going to college, at least not for the time being. Maybe in a few years once he matures. |
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Post by rifle on Jun 14, 2020 20:52:56 GMT -5
He’s made some mistakes but I was young and dumb once as well (with far less talent and drive to succeed). I hope to see him thrive in Indy and earn his way back up to AU.. and hoped onward.
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Post by SoccerMom on Jun 14, 2020 23:56:39 GMT -5
He’s made some mistakes but I was young and dumb once as well (with far less talent and drive to succeed). I hope to see him thrive in Indy and earn his way back up to AU.. and hoped onward. Do you think AU will bring him back? |
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Post by atlsoccerdad on Jun 15, 2020 8:13:44 GMT -5
Biggest problem with soccer - usually if one of your kids play they all do! $$$$$ Can’t a club even throw a multi kid discount at ya. I think the bubble is bursting - I expect to see many drop out and opt out of higher level of play due to cost. What is most disappointing with the pay to play model is the lack of a true merit-based path to the pros... The IMG academy looks like it produces lots of pro and national players, but at a HUGE ($88K per year) cost. www.boardingschoolreview.com/img-academy-profile |
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Post by atlsoccerdad on Jun 15, 2020 8:16:29 GMT -5
He’s made some mistakes but I was young and dumb once as well (with far less talent and drive to succeed). I hope to see him thrive in Indy and earn his way back up to AU.. and hoped onward. Do you think AU will bring him back? I don't think so ... |
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Post by rifle on Jun 15, 2020 21:09:29 GMT -5
He’s made some mistakes but I was young and dumb once as well (with far less talent and drive to succeed). I hope to see him thrive in Indy and earn his way back up to AU.. and hoped onward. Do you think AU will bring him back? I don’t. I just hope his talent doesn’t go to waste. He seems like either a goof or a knucklehead. I’m hoping it is the former |
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