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Post by Soccerhouse on Jun 12, 2020 8:18:03 GMT -5
In the past 5 years what has been the worst thing for American Soccer when attempting to become the best we can be?
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Post by mightydawg on Jun 12, 2020 8:21:47 GMT -5
In my mind, the other two choices fall under the Federation. The Federation allows the pay to play model, Mls to be a monopoly, The lack of training payments, and the lack of promotion relegation
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Post by atlutd17 on Jun 12, 2020 9:36:46 GMT -5
In my mind, the other two choices fall under the Federation. The Federation allows the pay to play model, Mls to be a monopoly, The lack of training payments, and the lack of promotion relegation Absolutely. FIFA recognizes USSF as the one single US Soccer governing body in charge of all. They are the equivalent of the FA in England, not the EPL. Under USSF players can never belong to the clubs. The pay to play model is the only model that clubs can survive without any options for transfer fees allowed. Only USSF can change that or anything else fundamental. |
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Post by soccernoleuk on Jun 12, 2020 9:57:00 GMT -5
Both Pay to Play & MLS contribute. However, they both contribute because USSF allows them to.
If I had Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos money, I would figure out a way to create a league where players could come play for free. I know it would be expensive, but that's why I would need a lot of money.
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Post by baller84 on Jun 12, 2020 10:56:11 GMT -5
In the past 5 years what has been the worst thing for American Soccer when attempting to become the best we can be? USSF by a mile and make that a decade plus. If you care to read more ... Pay to play is a major issue. It had to start this way but that was last century. It can be an option but not the only option, for clubs or players, and this is something only USSF can fix. Every talented player should have access to and options for more than one club to develop the fundamentals, and such clubs shouldn't be 100+ miles away from home. Models are there for anyone to see worldwide. No wheel reinventing needed. MLS is a professional league. It's a pro sports business. Their #1 goal is to make money by selling tickets and TV contracts etc. Markets are different but for most franchises to be successful and fill seats they have to win games now, not 5-10 years from now. Winning being most important, player development and long term may or may not be a franchise priority. I think it should be a priority, but that varies from franchise to franchise, and even then the MLS academies are only the very tip of the iceberg in youth soccer. 99.9+% of the players living in the US will need to grow and develop outside the MLS and that falls totally on USSF. Biggest mistake USSF ever made was US Club long time ago. They did the wrong thing for the right reasons. Instead, they should have stepped in and massively reformed USYS to in-turn reform the state associations and competition structures in order to resolve all those issues that caused the need for another entity (like US Club) in the first place. OR, they could abolish USYS and go all-in with US Club, names don't matter. They should have known better. But they proved incapable for all that, since their next mistake was the DA program as designed for multiple reasons already discussed before. The idea was right to solve the pay to play issue among others, but far too vertical, without a plan to build the foundation so that such plan would have the base to work long term. And issues go deeper. Biggest of all being they sent the wrong message in focusing at the very top and without a comprehensive study how viable the plan would be down the road. DA gradually destroyed many smaller programs in local communities primarily in big markets (LA, San Diego, Dallas/Ft Worth, Houston, Raleigh, Charlotte, Atlanta, Cincinnati, NYC, Chicago etc etc) or caused bad mergers that only benefitted few Directors financially through club winning and growth. I hope at least USL with its academies becomes that promotion/relegation league structure of some sort, with some added financial and market criteria that link the youth with the adult amateur, semi-pro and pro levels of play. But they and the youth clubs outside USL/MLS will need support of USSF to financially protect them from the MLS and foreign leagues through proper transfer fee policies. Simply put, if the MLS franchises do not see the value of investing in developing their own players, they should have to pay fair market value for those developed by USL and other leagues and clubs. Put the money from those MLS owners being cheap to the hands of the clubs that develop MLS caliper players. That compensation is the biggest incentive one can give to clubs to TRULY focus on player development over winning at all costs, and to help them survive and continue developing the next player and the other one after. |
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Post by mistergrinch on Jun 12, 2020 12:10:32 GMT -5
I didn't see an option for tophatshoes... is that missing?
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Post by rifle on Jun 13, 2020 7:14:29 GMT -5
It’s ALL on the federation. When the competitive player path looks like a tree rather than a pyramid, it’s not designed for competition.
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Post by bogan on Jun 13, 2020 7:18:31 GMT -5
It’s ALL on the federation. When the competitive player path looks like a tree rather than a pyramid, it’s not designed for competition. No-it’s designed to make $$$. |
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Post by baller84 on Jun 13, 2020 10:02:35 GMT -5
It’s ALL on the federation. When the competitive player path looks like a tree rather than a pyramid, it’s not designed for competition. No-it’s designed to make $$$. You are both 100% correct. Do not expect an improvement until we have a balanced system. |
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Post by atlutd17 on Jun 13, 2020 10:17:42 GMT -5
It's true that some winning clubs in Elite leagues make a lot of money yet, USSF, pay to play model and even the MLS are mostly blamed for the lack of player development to the top level.
What if MAKING MONEY was somehow directly tied to PLAYER DEVELOPMENT as opposed to winning?
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Post by newposter on Jun 13, 2020 10:26:58 GMT -5
Clubs are not for profits and file paperwork to keep that status. MLS, EPL, etc. Are for profit.
The issue IMO is there are multiple leagues. DA had their rules which kept them isolated and IMO protected. It also kept great players out because of their rules. Hopefully now with ECNL being the big dog, they will keep their flexibility rules allowing kids in the older ages to play in their off season.
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Post by atlutd17 on Jun 13, 2020 11:15:40 GMT -5
Clubs are not for profits and file paperwork to keep that status. MLS, EPL, etc. Are for profit. The issue IMO is there are multiple leagues. DA had their rules which kept them isolated and IMO protected. It also kept great players out because of their rules. Hopefully now with ECNL being the big dog, they will keep their flexibility rules allowing kids in the older ages to play in their off season. You're absolutely right on pro leagues, money is the name of the game and they need the monopoly to stay viable. It's the destination of player development and the draft quality in soccer speaks to the lack of. The main business here is not the franchise but the League (MLS). League comes before franchise and that's one major difference with foreign markets. The result of our youth soccer model in 2007-10 and USSF mandates, reflect to our pro soccer and the USMNT in 2018-20. You are also right on the multiple leagues issue, good to have one dog but can not be exclusive, biased and/or almost solely based on inadequate criteria. Keep in mind that for most those years DA was boys only, and ECNL girls only. Yes they do file. Not all clubs are not for profit. And there are savvy clubs that make serious money through growth thanks to the oligopoly of the last decade, including some "non-profit". Whether that money goes for staff bonuses or scholarships or staff education or investments etc etc that's another conversation. And by focusing on fraction of clubs in a closed league which is a bigger conversation in itself, you leave out the large majority of clubs, markets and players which is the root of issues with USSF and pay to play. |
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Post by soccernoleuk on Jun 13, 2020 13:34:04 GMT -5
Clubs are not for profits and file paperwork to keep that status. MLS, EPL, etc. Are for profit. The issue IMO is there are multiple leagues. DA had their rules which kept them isolated and IMO protected. It also kept great players out because of their rules. Hopefully now with ECNL being the big dog, they will keep their flexibility rules allowing kids in the older ages to play in their off season. Just because clubs are not for profit doesn't mean they aren't in it for the money. There are clubs that show no profit by moving funds to reserves at the end of the year, or paying big bonuses to certain coaches and/or directors when there are funds available. |
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Post by Keeper on Jun 13, 2020 13:36:48 GMT -5
Clubs are not for profits and file paperwork to keep that status. MLS, EPL, etc. Are for profit. The issue IMO is there are multiple leagues. DA had their rules which kept them isolated and IMO protected. It also kept great players out because of their rules. Hopefully now with ECNL being the big dog, they will keep their flexibility rules allowing kids in the older ages to play in their off season. Just because clubs are not for profit doesn't mean they aren't in it for the money. There are clubs that show no profit by moving funds to reserves at the end of the year, or paying big bonuses to certain coaches and/or directors when there are funds available. Totally agree but even as a non-profit clubs can build up quite the savings account too so they don’t have to spend everything they make by year end. A lot save that for “land development projects”. |
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Post by rifle on Jun 13, 2020 20:22:52 GMT -5
It's true that some winning clubs in Elite leagues make a lot of money yet, USSF, pay to play model and even the MLS are mostly blamed for the lack of player development to the top level. What if MAKING MONEY was somehow directly tied to PLAYER DEVELOPMENT as opposed to winning? cough. Southampton. Cough. |
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Post by rifle on Jun 13, 2020 20:26:42 GMT -5
Clubs are not for profits and file paperwork to keep that status. MLS, EPL, etc. Are for profit. The issue IMO is there are multiple leagues. DA had their rules which kept them isolated and IMO protected. It also kept great players out because of their rules. Hopefully now with ECNL being the big dog, they will keep their flexibility rules allowing kids in the older ages to play in their off season. You're absolutely right on pro leagues, money is the name of the game and they need the monopoly to stay viable. It's the destination of player development and the draft quality in soccer speaks to the lack of. The main business here is not the franchise but the League (MLS). League comes before franchise and that's one major difference with foreign markets. The result of our youth soccer model in 2007-10 and USSF mandates, reflect to our pro soccer and the USMNT in 2018-20. You are also right on the multiple leagues issue, good to have one dog but can not be exclusive, biased and/or almost solely based on inadequate criteria. Keep in mind that for most those years DA was boys only, and ECNL girls only. Yes they do file. Not all clubs are not for profit. And there are savvy clubs that make serious money through growth thanks to the oligopoly of the last decade, including some "non-profit". Whether that money goes for staff bonuses or scholarships or staff education or investments etc etc that's another conversation. And by focusing on fraction of clubs in a closed league which is a bigger conversation in itself, you leave out the large majority of clubs, markets and players which is the root of issues with USSF and pay to play. and coaches. Too many quality coaches aren’t “connected” and never will be.. so they are just as starved by league BS as any player or club. Total soup sandwich. |
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Post by soccerworld1974 on Jun 14, 2020 12:08:54 GMT -5
The federation hands down. Absolutely 0 leadership and don't see any of that coming forward.
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Post by soccerdad76 on Jun 15, 2020 0:55:47 GMT -5
Not giving a crap wasn’t listed... doing so is getting harder and harder.
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