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Jr. Academy
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Post by invalid on Sept 16, 2020 12:06:48 GMT -5
I've seen clubs like LSA, and KSA that have some of the best teams in the state, but as they get older, devalue. I was looking at LSA's squads, and the limit for them is U12. Why does this always happen with the smaller clubs and not some of the bigger clubs?
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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 16, 2020 12:14:44 GMT -5
11v11 and the need to have a strong 15-18 players in total. And if let's say Lanier constantly has their top 2-3 players leaving for AU or other clubs, it creates a huge void to fill.
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Post by soccermaxx72 on Sept 16, 2020 12:19:57 GMT -5
This is the easiest question to answer of all time and I can speak as a parent who had a player at LSA on a team that at the time was ranked #1 in the state: No matter how good the team or individual coach is you are going to lose players to clubs that offer ECNL at the u13 and some will leave at u12 to try to get in early for ecnl. If LSA had ECNL they would keep the majority of those players and would be heads and shoulders above clubs like Atlanta Fire.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 16, 2020 12:23:57 GMT -5
The converse is this: Why is AU so strong.
It's not just that they are picking up the top 1-2 kids from each local club and then across the south -- it's because they really have no weak players. They are strong from player 1 to 18. There bottom is much better than the bottom at most clubs they compete against, and in my humble opinion, when you go against a top side and throw 1-3 week players in the 11, your screwed -- these kids will get exposed. Hate to say it, but your only as strong as your weakest link.
The weaker kids at AU are still very high quality players that typically will at least give you 100% effort and work their butts off in a game.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Sept 16, 2020 12:50:17 GMT -5
This is related to the girls side only:
As remote as LSA is (we were there for a year also), I strongly doubt they would not be stronger than any of the other ECNL teams in the state. They have one team in NL on the girls side simply because girls leave for bigger/greener pastures. They're too remote to draw many top players.
I know people like to throw shade on AFU, but the reality is they're at the same level as Concorde Premier and UFA ECNL at most age groups. Mind you they get poached by GSA yearly, but they do make big promises over there. If AFU is getting poached, you can bet LSA would be poached (they poached LSA's 05 coach after all).
As such, NTH, Concorde (and at later ages GSA) will always poach the smaller clubs for top players. It happens every year. These 3 clubs have one main thing going for them...location. CF and NTH especially. They're in the center of the part of the soccer city. Its easier to pull kids from Marietta and Fayetteville to Buckhead than it would be to Gainesville.
Its simply a pyramid from smaller clubs to the biggest clubs. Players and families have to decide what they're comfortable with and comfortable putting up with. Some enjoy the big fish/small pond experience while others do not.
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Post by cornerkick on Sept 16, 2020 13:26:05 GMT -5
The converse is this: Why is AU so strong. It's not just that they are picking up the top 1-2 kids from each local club and then across the south -- it's because they really have no weak players. They are strong from player 1 to 18. There bottom is much better than the bottom at most clubs they compete against, and in my humble opinion, when you go against a top side and throw 1-3 week players in the 11, your screwed -- these kids will get exposed. Hate to say it, but your only as strong as your weakest link. The weaker kids at AU are still very high quality players that typically will at least give you 100% effort and work their butts off in a game. That's an interesting perspective and brings up another interesting question. Is it better to be player 15-18 on a Top team, or take your game to another team (at the same level, such as ECNL) where you may be the star? Which would you chose for your player?
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Post by Keeper on Sept 16, 2020 13:37:38 GMT -5
The converse is this: Why is AU so strong. It's not just that they are picking up the top 1-2 kids from each local club and then across the south -- it's because they really have no weak players. They are strong from player 1 to 18. There bottom is much better than the bottom at most clubs they compete against, and in my humble opinion, when you go against a top side and throw 1-3 week players in the 11, your screwed -- these kids will get exposed. Hate to say it, but your only as strong as your weakest link. The weaker kids at AU are still very high quality players that typically will at least give you 100% effort and work their butts off in a game. That's an interesting perspective and brings up another interesting question. Is it better to be player 15-18 on a Top team, or take your game to another team (at the same level, such as ECNL) where you may be the star? Which would you chose for your player? I’ve always said it’s better to be Player 1-10 then Player 11-20, as long as the coaching is right. Even if it means dropping to a “Lower” level. Some of the best ECRL/Sccl teams could easily beat some of the ECNL/NL teams. Unfortunately too many people get caught up in labels and brands over quality.
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Post by mistergrinch on Sept 16, 2020 14:14:26 GMT -5
That's an interesting perspective and brings up another interesting question. Is it better to be player 15-18 on a Top team, or take your game to another team (at the same level, such as ECNL) where you may be the star? Which would you chose for your player? I’ve always said it’s better to be Player 1-10 then Player 11-20, as long as the coaching is right. Even if it means dropping to a “Lower” level. Some of the best ECRL/Sccl teams could easily beat some of the ECNL/NL teams. Unfortunately too many people get caught up in labels and brands over quality. Unfortunately, a lot of those people are college coaches.
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Post by Keeper on Sept 16, 2020 14:35:44 GMT -5
I’ve always said it’s better to be Player 1-10 then Player 11-20, as long as the coaching is right. Even if it means dropping to a “Lower” level. Some of the best ECRL/Sccl teams could easily beat some of the ECNL/NL teams. Unfortunately too many people get caught up in labels and brands over quality. Unfortunately, a lot of those people are college coaches. Yeah but only what 10% of graduating soccer players will play in college, so again the idea of labels and brands, over quality. Plus if you’re a bench player on an ECNL team that gets 20 minutes of play is that college coach going to see you?
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Post by soccerparentx on Sept 16, 2020 15:15:32 GMT -5
The converse is this: Why is AU so strong. It's not just that they are picking up the top 1-2 kids from each local club and then across the south -- it's because they really have no weak players. They are strong from player 1 to 18. There bottom is much better than the bottom at most clubs they compete against, and in my humble opinion, when you go against a top side and throw 1-3 week players in the 11, your screwed -- these kids will get exposed. Hate to say it, but your only as strong as your weakest link. The weaker kids at AU are still very high quality players that typically will at least give you 100% effort and work their butts off in a game. That's an interesting perspective and brings up another interesting question. Is it better to be player 15-18 on a Top team, or take your game to another team (at the same level, such as ECNL) where you may be the star? Which would you chose for your player?
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Post by soccernoleuk on Sept 16, 2020 20:54:28 GMT -5
The converse is this: Why is AU so strong. It's not just that they are picking up the top 1-2 kids from each local club and then across the south -- it's because they really have no weak players. They are strong from player 1 to 18. There bottom is much better than the bottom at most clubs they compete against, and in my humble opinion, when you go against a top side and throw 1-3 week players in the 11, your screwed -- these kids will get exposed. Hate to say it, but your only as strong as your weakest link. The weaker kids at AU are still very high quality players that typically will at least give you 100% effort and work their butts off in a game. That's an interesting perspective and brings up another interesting question. Is it better to be player 15-18 on a Top team, or take your game to another team (at the same level, such as ECNL) where you may be the star? Which would you chose for your player? Based on what I have seen at multiple clubs in regards to how the second team is handled, I would prefer my child be 15-18 on the top team than 1-5 on the second team. Even if they don't get the playing time in games, they are getting first team training which is head & shoulders above what they get on the second team. Not only is the competition of playing against other first team players better, the intensity is higher and the expectations are higher. Also, being on a top team (presumably ECNL) you would get to travel to showcases, while the second team might only be playing in local tournaments. There might be a few clubs where this is not the case, but I have seen first hand where the second team is treated very differently than the first team.
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Post by soccermaxx72 on Sept 16, 2020 21:11:56 GMT -5
That's an interesting perspective and brings up another interesting question. Is it better to be player 15-18 on a Top team, or take your game to another team (at the same level, such as ECNL) where you may be the star? Which would you chose for your player? Based on what I have seen at multiple clubs in regards to how the second team is handled, I would prefer my child be 15-18 on the top team than 1-5 on the second team. Even if they don't get the playing time in games, they are getting first team training which is head & shoulders above what they get on the second team. Not only is the competition of playing against other first team players better, the intensity is higher and the expectations are higher. Also, being on a top team (presumably ECNL) you would get to travel to showcases, while the second team might only be playing in local tournaments. There might be a few clubs where this is not the case, but I have seen first hand where the second team is treated very differently than the first team. Spot on
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Post by cornerkick on Sept 17, 2020 7:35:20 GMT -5
That's an interesting perspective and brings up another interesting question. Is it better to be player 15-18 on a Top team, or take your game to another team (at the same level, such as ECNL) where you may be the star? Which would you chose for your player? Based on what I have seen at multiple clubs in regards to how the second team is handled, I would prefer my child be 15-18 on the top team than 1-5 on the second team. Even if they don't get the playing time in games, they are getting first team training which is head & shoulders above what they get on the second team. Not only is the competition of playing against other first team players better, the intensity is higher and the expectations are higher. Also, being on a top team (presumably ECNL) you would get to travel to showcases, while the second team might only be playing in local tournaments. There might be a few clubs where this is not the case, but I have seen first hand where the second team is treated very differently than the first team. I can certainly see that situation where a club has two teams. What's your take where the club has one team, but that one team is very good and on that team your kid would play a role off the bench. Another club with a middle of the road team would like your kid and your kid will start and play a majority of each game. What do you do? I'm talking age groups 14U+. Not the younger ages.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 17, 2020 7:56:05 GMT -5
Based on what I have seen at multiple clubs in regards to how the second team is handled, I would prefer my child be 15-18 on the top team than 1-5 on the second team. Even if they don't get the playing time in games, they are getting first team training which is head & shoulders above what they get on the second team. Not only is the competition of playing against other first team players better, the intensity is higher and the expectations are higher. Also, being on a top team (presumably ECNL) you would get to travel to showcases, while the second team might only be playing in local tournaments. There might be a few clubs where this is not the case, but I have seen first hand where the second team is treated very differently than the first team. I can certainly see that situation where a club has two teams. What's your take where the club has one team, but that one team is very good and on that team your kid would play a role off the bench. Another club with a middle of the road team would like your kid and your kid will start and play a majority of each game. What do you do? I'm talking age groups 14U+. Not the younger ages. Frankly I think playing time is better than sitting the bench. I am running into that issue right now with my son. The team he is on now is almost a complete restart as 11 kids either left and quit playing all together or went to other clubs. The sad thing was it was a very good team. Now he is probably #1 on this team in the rebuild. He plays full games and if he didn't play full games the team would get beat at least 2x worse than it already is because he is an excellent defender and most goals that get scored off of the defense is either keeper fault or the rest of his inexperienced line in which he saves their butts 90% of the time. He has told me that if the team keeps losing like this that he wants to look elsewhere. He only has 3 years left to play club and all the clubs around me are either I feel like suck for what team he would likely make or carry like 24 kids on a team and all kids don't get on the roster each week. Likely he wouldn't be 1-11 on the team that carries 24 on the team. So I almost feel like him staying where he is for 3 more years and playing full games is more useful (even if losing and not as fun for him) than trying to go somewhere else at his age and likely seeing a severe drop off in minutes. I'm not sure he would get a scholarship unless it was a Division 3 type school somewhere. He just wants to be able to make the high school team and walk on a team in college (club or normal team) if possible.
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Post by flix on Sept 17, 2020 9:24:16 GMT -5
I can certainly see that situation where a club has two teams. What's your take where the club has one team, but that one team is very good and on that team your kid would play a role off the bench. Another club with a middle of the road team would like your kid and your kid will start and play a majority of each game. What do you do? I'm talking age groups 14U+. Not the younger ages. Frankly I think playing time is better than sitting the bench. I am running into that issue right now with my son. The team he is on now is almost a complete restart as 11 kids either left and quit playing all together or went to other clubs. The sad thing was it was a very good team. Now he is probably #1 on this team in the rebuild. He plays full games and if he didn't play full games the team would get beat at least 2x worse than it already is because he is an excellent defender and most goals that get scored off of the defense is either keeper fault or the rest of his inexperienced line in which he saves their butts 90% of the time. He has told me that if the team keeps losing like this that he wants to look elsewhere. He only has 3 years left to play club and all the clubs around me are either I feel like suck for what team he would likely make or carry like 24 kids on a team and all kids don't get on the roster each week. Likely he wouldn't be 1-11 on the team that carries 24 on the team. So I almost feel like him staying where he is for 3 more years and playing full games is more useful (even if losing and not as fun for him) than trying to go somewhere else at his age and likely seeing a severe drop off in minutes. I'm not sure he would get a scholarship unless it was a Division 3 type school somewhere. He just wants to be able to make the high school team and walk on a team in college (club or normal team) if possible. I think defenders and goalkeepers playing on “bad” teams at younger ages (up to a certain point) is great because they get way more chances to defend than if they were on a “good” team. Way more opportunities to develop.
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Post by soccerspin on Sept 17, 2020 9:41:42 GMT -5
For college exposure, how important are those larger tourneys (like Jeff Cup which folks don’t seem too happy with given how they handled this current year’s event? And what if you’re the team who’s not winning all (or most) of your games in those large tourneys? Will those recruiters come watch anyway? I don’t know much about this process but one would seem to think they would focus more on the winning teams (strong win-loss record coming in) at those tournaments. Would that be a correct assumption?
And if your team doesn’t get the necessary college exposure at the tournaments, how much of that can be offset by attending ID camps and the like?
Understand the odds of competing at the college level, but would like to consider all possible avenues of college admission and overall experience (academic and athletic)...even if some could be remote possibilities.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Sept 17, 2020 12:13:56 GMT -5
For college exposure, how important are those larger tourneys (like Jeff Cup which folks don’t seem too happy with given how they handled this current year’s event? And what if you’re the team who’s not winning all (or most) of your games in those large tourneys? Will those recruiters come watch anyway? I don’t know much about this process but one would seem to think they would focus more on the winning teams (strong win-loss record coming in) at those tournaments. Would that be a correct assumption? And if your team doesn’t get the necessary college exposure at the tournaments, how much of that can be offset by attending ID camps and the like? Understand the odds of competing at the college level, but would like to consider all possible avenues of college admission and overall experience (academic and athletic)...even if some could be remote possibilities. You may want to start a new thread with this question so you can get a better response. I think being on a winning team does not matter as much as being present a bigger showcases. You can probably look up the college coaches list from last year's Jeff Cup and Disney tournaments and I think you will find it is mostly D2 and D3 coaches. There will be occasional D1. So it somewhat depends on what level of exposure you are looking for what tournaments are the best. ECNL and formerly DA got a lot more D1 coaches to their showcases. I WILL say that film is going to be very important this year especially for D1 which will be in a dead period until 2021. I can tell you of times when "local" coaches have gone to training sessions to watch players (D1 coaches from Clemson and Georgia schools). They have to learn about your player though so send messages to them so they know who you are. ID camps can definitely help too!
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Post by soccernoleuk on Sept 17, 2020 15:37:51 GMT -5
Based on what I have seen at multiple clubs in regards to how the second team is handled, I would prefer my child be 15-18 on the top team than 1-5 on the second team. Even if they don't get the playing time in games, they are getting first team training which is head & shoulders above what they get on the second team. Not only is the competition of playing against other first team players better, the intensity is higher and the expectations are higher. Also, being on a top team (presumably ECNL) you would get to travel to showcases, while the second team might only be playing in local tournaments. There might be a few clubs where this is not the case, but I have seen first hand where the second team is treated very differently than the first team. I can certainly see that situation where a club has two teams. What's your take where the club has one team, but that one team is very good and on that team your kid would play a role off the bench. Another club with a middle of the road team would like your kid and your kid will start and play a majority of each game. What do you do? I'm talking age groups 14U+. Not the younger ages. Personally I think you would need to take more into consideration than just the soccer aspect. If you are moving clubs you need to think about how your child will react to being on a new team where they are now also trying to make new friends and just try to fit in. Again, for development purposes, I think training plays a big part. If you are towards the top on the team, you might not be getting the most out of training and thus not necessarily developing as much. The player might remain at the top of that team, but in comparison to others at other clubs the player might be starting to fall behind. Another consideration is where will tournaments be played, and how much exposure can the player get. If it is a smaller club (only 1 team for the age group), there might not be as much exposure at tournaments or in games in general. If this is the case, moving to the second team at a bigger club might be beneficial. However, you really need to scout the club you would be moving to so you are sure there is a good coach, dedication from the new teammates, and the second team isn't treated as inferior by the club when compared to the first team.
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Post by soccernoleuk on Sept 17, 2020 15:55:44 GMT -5
For college exposure, how important are those larger tourneys (like Jeff Cup which folks don’t seem too happy with given how they handled this current year’s event? And what if you’re the team who’s not winning all (or most) of your games in those large tourneys? Will those recruiters come watch anyway? I don’t know much about this process but one would seem to think they would focus more on the winning teams (strong win-loss record coming in) at those tournaments. Would that be a correct assumption? And if your team doesn’t get the necessary college exposure at the tournaments, how much of that can be offset by attending ID camps and the like? Understand the odds of competing at the college level, but would like to consider all possible avenues of college admission and overall experience (academic and athletic)...even if some could be remote possibilities. I think just being at the tournament will bring some exposure. While your team might not be any good, they might be playing a good team. While playing that good team there might be coaches scouting, and a good player can catch the eye of the coach. Then moving forward, even if the team isn't any good, the coach might come around to watch the individual. To me just being there is better than the alternative of not being there. As for ID camps, I think they can get players on the radar and they play a key role. However, coaches would prefer to see players play in actual game environments than just in training settings. I would suggest also getting game video of your player to send to college coaches.
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Post by soulsurvivin on Sept 22, 2020 22:22:03 GMT -5
I've seen clubs like LSA, and KSA that have some of the best teams in the state, but as they get older, devalue. I was looking at LSA's squads, and the limit for them is U12. Why does this always happen with the smaller clubs and not some of the bigger clubs? I think that it depends on the mission of the club. Some clubs only have the resources to support younger ages. This can be a good thing. Develop the talent and establish a pipeline to other clubs. I have seen the converse happen at smaller clubs though. My son spent 4 years at a small club. There were challenges such as scheduling games. Many small clubs get left out because academies tend to play other academies spanning multiple ages. If you only have a few teams, you may not get on a schedule and even setting up friendly games can be challenging. Overall, it takes resources to run a club and there can be a different set of challenges at every age.
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Post by bogan on Sept 23, 2020 5:06:27 GMT -5
“There were challenges such as scheduling games. Many small clubs get left out because academies tend to play other academies spanning multiple ages. If you only have a few teams, you may not get on a schedule and even setting up friendly games can be challenging.”
Been there-several of the clubs wouldn’t even return a phone call or three...I will say SSA and CF did ,and we had some good matches. However, this was in the days before SCCL. But, as kids got older, the better ones did drift to larger clubs-it’s hard to keep a team together as kids get older when you don’t have big numbers to pull from to begin with. So you end up with a U16/17/18/19 team that plays in the bottom tier.
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Post by Waterboy on Sept 23, 2020 13:40:43 GMT -5
All good observations and points. Having been a part of LSA for approximately 10 years, from both a rec and club standpoint, they lack leadership on the girls side. Yes they do lack programs, however, they also lack vision and true leadership to create a solid foundation on which to build a successful program LSA would do well to try and identify their strengths and lean into them, offer girls better exposure and think outside of the box to retain them.
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Post by soccermaxx72 on Sept 23, 2020 15:11:50 GMT -5
All good observations and points. Having been a part of LSA for approximately 10 years, from both a rec and club standpoint, they lack leadership on the girls side. Yes they do lack programs, however, they also lack vision and true leadership to create a solid foundation on which to build a successful program LSA would do well to try and identify their strengths and lean into them, offer girls better exposure and think outside of the box to retain them. Very true and as someone who was there it is very obvious the girls program is only there to collect dues to help pay for the boys program. LSA program is 100% boys centric. LSA has been unwilling to pay successful coaches when they have had the occasional girls coach standout performance
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 24, 2020 6:17:03 GMT -5
All good observations and points. Having been a part of LSA for approximately 10 years, from both a rec and club standpoint, they lack leadership on the girls side. Yes they do lack programs, however, they also lack vision and true leadership to create a solid foundation on which to build a successful program LSA would do well to try and identify their strengths and lean into them, offer girls better exposure and think outside of the box to retain them. Very true and as someone who was there it is very obvious the girls program is only there to collect dues to help pay for the boys program. LSA program is 100% boys centric. LSA has been unwilling to pay successful coaches when they have had the occasional girls coach standout performance Which is kind of funny as I have always said the reverse of SSA. SSA is more about their girl's programs than boys. At least from being in the club that long that is how it seems.
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Post by 04gparent on Sept 24, 2020 8:26:27 GMT -5
Here is what I have seen with girls (fyi, I have 2 daughters. Each attended a different club in the academy years):
(1)It is easier for 1 player (especially if they are athletic) to influence the game at the younger academy age groups. So one player at a smaller club can carry that team for 6x6 and 8v8 and thus when the field turns to 11 v 11 that 1 player or 2 players are less effective.
(2)Some clubs' tacticts dont work as well at 6v6 vs 11v11. If the kids are learning to play out of the back even at 6v6 they are prone to mistakes that may lead to losses at the younger age groups, but as the field expands and the players this tactic becomes more and more effective...
(3)Some of the smaller clubs may never see/play the larger clubs top team during Academy years. I know for example SSA Blue may play Roswell in academy but its only the blue team. The top team is the elite team made up of a combined team. This may lead to a false sense of how good the team is. Same thing with tourneys. The smaller clubs sometimes never even make it to the top tier of tournaments...
(4)As previously stated by someone on here. A very good 11v11 team needs 14 to 16 good/great players or it will be exposed at the older age groups. If your player pool is only 25 to 30 it is almost impossible to build that kind of debt.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Sept 24, 2020 9:24:12 GMT -5
Boys game vs girls game is obviously a big difference here. With the exception of DA/ECNL/MLSNext, some more remote small clubs with only 1-2 team per age group can sometimes compete on the boys side. Its all about whether the boys want to stay with their team or move on to a bigger pond. The situation is there are way more boys playing than girls, and usually playing at a higher level.
Largely generic postulate: Boys teams rise to the top, girls players rise to the top.
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