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Post by soccermaxx72 on Oct 4, 2020 16:47:14 GMT -5
Is it legal for players on the game sheet to be handwritten in?
I thought all leagues starting at u13: SCCL, ecnl, NL, Athena..... all require players to be in the official game system and gamesheet
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Post by soccerallthetime on Oct 4, 2020 17:01:25 GMT -5
Is it legal for players on the game sheet to be handwritten in? I thought all leagues starting at u13: SCCL, ecnl, NL, Athena..... all require players to be in the official game system and gamesheet You can write them in at the bottom of the game sheet, but they have to have valid player cards. |
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Post by bogan on Oct 4, 2020 17:02:22 GMT -5
Is it legal for players on the game sheet to be handwritten in? I thought all leagues starting at u13: SCCL, ecnl, NL, Athena..... all require players to be in the official game system and gamesheet 🤷🏻♂️Ask Ben Olsen of DC United... Seriously-they are supposed to be but if the coaches agreed then... |
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Post by flamengo100 on Oct 4, 2020 17:44:38 GMT -5
Yes, here is a note from SCCL regarding handwritten players.
Club Passing - Club passing is permitted. Three players for teams from U12U - 17U may be used. 19U teams can utilize up to five club passes (including in the club based division). You may add these players to your team via Got Soccer, but you may also hand write them on your game card. All club pass members must have a current US Club player pass. Club pass players may play up a division in the same age group, or at the same division or a higher division at an older age group. SCCL Club level members may not club pass onto any premier level team. Note: While there is a club pass feature in the GotSoccer system, we simply have not tested this enough yet. We recommend just handwriting in club pass players, and making sure you have that player's player card.
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Post by lsagoalie on Oct 4, 2020 19:08:07 GMT -5
Allowing had write ins for older ages is a joke.
Only 2 reasons for handwritten player: 1. Either an incompetent team manager that does not do the work to legitimize and add the player or 2. The player can legitimately be added and you write in hoping to get away with it
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Post by Keeper on Oct 4, 2020 19:43:02 GMT -5
Gotsoccer system works about 5% of the time for club passes so nearly all of them are handwritten.
As long as you’ve got the player pass it shouldn’t matter.
At least with the US Club stuff and all players having to upload some form of birthdate verification before a pass is able to be printed it’s been a lot easier knowing players are truly registered the right way.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Oct 4, 2020 20:17:17 GMT -5
Allowing had write ins for older ages is a joke. Only 2 reasons for handwritten player: 1. Either an incompetent team manager that does not do the work to legitimize and add the player or 2. The player can legitimately be added and you write in hoping to get away with it In the past I am aware of a few circumstances when players were not available due to injury and they club passed players from other teams. I am sure this year there may be circumstances when players are not available due to covid concerns, in addition to the usual injuries. This could cause number issues and the need to club pass. |
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Post by ga3v3 on Oct 4, 2020 21:35:36 GMT -5
Without pro/rel it doesn’t matter anyway
Wins losses are irrelevant. Just hope for good matches where your players develop
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Oct 5, 2020 6:26:44 GMT -5
Allowing had write ins for older ages is a joke. Only 2 reasons for handwritten player: 1. Either an incompetent team manager that does not do the work to legitimize and add the player or 2. The player can legitimately be added and you write in hoping to get away with it Completely wrong on that. There are issues with the search function and finding the club pass players to add on the game cards sometimes on gotsoccer.com . There was an email that went out from SCCL administration to SCCL team managers and coaches saying that hand writing names and numbers along with their valid US Club soccer ID were fine as long as the player also had a current US Club Player pass as well due to the issue with getting Club Pass players added and the search function on the site. Also there are instances sometimes for instance like on my son's team that only has 12 kids that are rostered to the team to begin with but have a range of 4-6 players they routinely use as part of their 3 permissible club pass players and one particular one can't be there at the last minute and one is contacted and says they can play and there is no means for the team manager to fix the game cards at that point as they are already in route or at the game site, so the name is hand written which again is legal as long as the player is legal to play in SCCL which can all be verified via the player pass, and further be verified with SCCL administration if one wants to take it that far. So you might want to get real info from people in the know before you ASSume stuff. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Oct 5, 2020 6:30:00 GMT -5
Without pro/rel it doesn’t matter anyway Wins losses are irrelevant. Just hope for good matches where your players develop What are you talking about? SCCL Premier levels have promotion and relegation just like GA Soccer Classic/Athena divisions. The only non pro/rel part of SCCL is the C or Club level one. In reality though if your club has a team that wins SCCL-P1 any given season and it is better than what that club's SCCL-C team is, the chances are very likely the club internally flip-flops those two teams the next season anyway as an internal "pro/rel" as you could say. I also believe that if a club that was not part of the original big clubs consistently does well in SCCL-P1 across age groups they can petition and be invited to the SCCL-C level as well. |
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Post by soccerspin on Oct 5, 2020 8:29:28 GMT -5
@slickdaddy - “... as long as the player is legal to play in SCCL which can all be verified via the player pass, and further be verified with SCCL administration if one wants to take it that far.”
This only means a valid US Club pass plus birth year for the team you’re looking to play with right? So ECNL players can drop to play SCCL and even within SCCL the Club players could drop to play P levels, correct?
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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 5, 2020 8:47:47 GMT -5
I was forwarded the SCCL email, basically as discussed, the instructions were to hand write players in if needed.
if people are going to cheat, there really isn't much you can do anyway.
I would like to know if a hand written player is entered in and gets a card and then is entered into the system, if the player number for the given player isn't found, does it kick an email to the sccl suggesting something fishy? That being said, when entering in cards, I think you can just enter in a name and it doesn't require the player number, could be wrong.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Oct 5, 2020 9:05:38 GMT -5
@slickdaddy - “... as long as the player is legal to play in SCCL which can all be verified via the player pass, and further be verified with SCCL administration if one wants to take it that far.” This only means a valid US Club pass plus birth year for the team you’re looking to play with right? So ECNL players can drop to play SCCL and even within SCCL the Club players could drop to play P levels, correct? There is nothing that precludes an ECNL or NPL player from playing on any SCCL team as far as SCCL rules go. Now I don't know if there are any ECNL or NPL rules that prevent them from doing that. I don't believe there is. So using ECNL/NPL players would be fair game. Now it is explicitly prohibited in the SCCL rules for any SCCL-C level player to play down on any Premier level team even if the kid is in a younger age group. Also Premier level players can only play on same level or higher level P level teams if club passing. That also includes any kids playing from a lower age group up. So for example a P1 or P2 U14 player could not play on a P3 or P4 U15 team, but a P3 U15 or U14 player could play on a P2, P1, or even C level U15 team. Hope that makes sense. |
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Post by soccerspin on Oct 5, 2020 10:31:32 GMT -5
@slickdaddy... Great thank you for the details. One last question, so how would someone (ref or otherwise) know if a Club player attempted to (or had already) played down? Is there anything on the player card which denotes someone being a Club Level player? I could see programmatically keeping that from happening via GotSoccer, but curious when it came to write-ins because at that point you’d only have the player pass in which to validate and restrict that downward movement from happening. (Right?)
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Oct 5, 2020 10:53:54 GMT -5
@slickdaddy... Great thank you for the details. One last question, so how would someone (ref or otherwise) know if a Club player attempted to (or had already) played down? Is there anything on the player card which denotes someone being a Club Level player? I could see programmatically keeping that from happening via GotSoccer, but curious when it came to write-ins because at that point you’d only have the player pass in which to validate and restrict that downward movement from happening. (Right?) That's a good question. I really don't know because the US Club Soccer player passes are not very descriptive as far as showing what team they play on, etc... I would think for hard written ones gotsoccer.com would prevent that from happening, though I don't know if that has been tested or not. Hand written is going to be hard to figure out one way or the other. I guess if a referee or the other team believes something nefarious has happened they could protest the game to the SCCL admins to let them investigate. You are correct though it would be very hard to detect a higher level SCCL player playing down on lower teams if the kid is hand written onto the game card. The only way I could see is an investigation after the fact. I hope most clubs are being honest about not doing that. I know my son's team does not use illegal players like that and only has 3 teams they can pull guest players on that would have qualified players that could play with them. Now you could get around the rules a little bit. Say a team didn't have enough kids full time to always cover a game and always needs 3 club pass players but a higher level team had 18-20 kids on their roster. A club could simply roster 2-3 kids on the lower P level team (even if they never even trained with the lower team) and they could play with them and Club Pass to the higher team. I have no doubt there are clubs that do stuff like that and that is legal to do. |
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Post by soccerspin on Oct 5, 2020 11:58:07 GMT -5
I was forwarded the SCCL email, basically as discussed, the instructions were to hand write players in if needed. if people are going to cheat, there really isn't much you can do anyway. I would like to know if a hand written player is entered in and gets a card and then is entered into the system, if the player number for the given player isn't found, does it kick an email to the sccl suggesting something fishy? That being said, when entering in cards, I think you can just enter in a name and it doesn't require the player number, could be wrong. From our experience thus far in SCCL, yellow cards are not consistently being entered... |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Oct 5, 2020 13:07:27 GMT -5
I was forwarded the SCCL email, basically as discussed, the instructions were to hand write players in if needed. if people are going to cheat, there really isn't much you can do anyway. I would like to know if a hand written player is entered in and gets a card and then is entered into the system, if the player number for the given player isn't found, does it kick an email to the sccl suggesting something fishy? That being said, when entering in cards, I think you can just enter in a name and it doesn't require the player number, could be wrong. From our experience thus far in SCCL, yellow cards are not consistently being entered... The issue with this as I have seen so far was that last year SCCL sent out an email stating that the Cards are supposed to be put in by the Referees not the Team Managers. I'm not sure Referees knew that last year and I don't know if that is the case this year or not. I know our team manager has not gotten any emails saying they are responsible for putting in cards. The only thing they are responsible for that there was an actual email on it was home team manager or coach entering scores. I agree we have a card not listed on my son's team and several cards not listed for opposing teams that have played his team. |
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Post by bogan on Oct 5, 2020 13:11:36 GMT -5
From our experience thus far in SCCL, yellow cards are not consistently being entered... The issue with this as I have seen so far was that last year SCCL sent out an email stating that the Cards are supposed to be put in by the Referees not the Team Managers. I'm not sure Referees knew that last year and I don't know if that is the case this year or not. I know our team manager has not gotten any emails saying they are responsible for putting in cards. The only thing they are responsible for that there was an actual email on it was home team manager or coach entering scores. I agree we have a card not listed on my son's team and several cards not listed for opposing teams that have played his team. [ Does it matter-do they accumulate for a player or team in SCCL? |
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Post by atlutd17 on Oct 5, 2020 13:15:45 GMT -5
Without pro/rel it doesn’t matter anyway Wins losses are irrelevant. Just hope for good matches where your players develop But there is pro/rel in SCCL-Premier. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Oct 5, 2020 13:18:56 GMT -5
The issue with this as I have seen so far was that last year SCCL sent out an email stating that the Cards are supposed to be put in by the Referees not the Team Managers. I'm not sure Referees knew that last year and I don't know if that is the case this year or not. I know our team manager has not gotten any emails saying they are responsible for putting in cards. The only thing they are responsible for that there was an actual email on it was home team manager or coach entering scores. I agree we have a card not listed on my son's team and several cards not listed for opposing teams that have played his team. [ Does it matter-do they accumulate for a player or team in SCCL? Here is the SCCL rules that talk about it: Law 12: Fouls and Misconduct Fouls and misconduct before, during and immediately after a game are determined and acted upon by the Referee. There are seven cautionable offenses that prescribe the display of a yellow card. Two yellow cards in one game = a red card. All red card offenses are punishable by immediate removal from the field of play. Coaches, players, administrators, and spectators who are ejected, must immediately leave sight and sound of the field, and must serve a minimum of a one-game suspension in the next scheduled and played game. The SCCL will provide information on further sanctions should the SCCL Disciplinary Committee elect to assess further penalties. Please see the section on MISCONDUCT for more precise information. -------- The funny thing is that there is no other section on the SCCL website or the rules page labeled MISCONDUCT. So I don't know if they have set policies that just aren't on the website or it is fly by the seat of their pants with a misconduct committee and they decide on a case by case basis if something penalty wise should be more than the norm. So short answer, it doesn't look like yellow cards accumulate. Red cards do have the normal suspension clause. |
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Post by soccerspin on Oct 5, 2020 16:10:46 GMT -5
[ Does it matter-do they accumulate for a player or team in SCCL? Here is the SCCL rules that talk about it: Law 12: Fouls and Misconduct Fouls and misconduct before, during and immediately after a game are determined and acted upon by the Referee. There are seven cautionable offenses that prescribe the display of a yellow card. Two yellow cards in one game = a red card. All red card offenses are punishable by immediate removal from the field of play. Coaches, players, administrators, and spectators who are ejected, must immediately leave sight and sound of the field, and must serve a minimum of a one-game suspension in the next scheduled and played game. The SCCL will provide information on further sanctions should the SCCL Disciplinary Committee elect to assess further penalties. Please see the section on MISCONDUCT for more precise information. -------- The funny thing is that there is no other section on the SCCL website or the rules page labeled MISCONDUCT. So I don't know if they have set policies that just aren't on the website or it is fly by the seat of their pants with a misconduct committee and they decide on a case by case basis if something penalty wise should be more than the norm. So short answer, it doesn't look like yellow cards accumulate. Red cards do have the normal suspension clause. Regarding the first quote, yes that’s been our understanding as well. The referee enters the cards, not the TM. Which is different from Ga Soccer so can understand some confusion there. And agree it is strange there’s no additional misconduct info on the SCCL website itself, but they do have it somewhere. Our Doc had to ask for it because we needed some additional information regarding red card game suspension. In Ga Soccer, the player has to sit on the bench in street clothes during the next game in order to serve the suspension. But in SCCL they say the player can’t be at the next game at all and that is how it is served. But you won’t find that on their website. So regarding yellow card accumulation, yes they do have it: YELLOW CARD ACCUMULATIONS: o After the fifth yellow card in a season, a player is suspended for one game. o Three additional yellow cards will result in a two-game suspension. So it does matter when they are not entered. Well, for some players anyway...  Will see if I can figure out how to post the doc... |
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Post by soccerspin on Oct 5, 2020 16:15:59 GMT -5
Can’t figure out how to attach it so here ya go...
SCCL MISCONDUCT INFORMATION
Updated 9/16/2020
PLAYER MISCONDUCT
● PLAYER RED CARD SUSPENSIONS:
o An automatic one-game suspension will be assessed for all infractions, with the following exceptions:
● Violent Conduct will have a 2-game suspension (with the possibility of more)
● Racially offensive language directed toward an opponent will have a 2-game suspension (with the possibility of more)
● Spitting at or on an opponent will have a 2-game assessment
● Allegation of referee assault results in an immediate ban from all USSF soccer activities. This includes practice and game participation, until a hearing is scheduled, conducted and findings of the hearing shared with the team.
o Suspensions are served in the following manner:
▪ Player IS NOT permitted at the game in any fashion while serving a suspension.
▪ Player is not eligible for club pass until the suspension is served.
▪ A red card earned as a club pass player requires the suspension be served with the player’s team of record.
o Red Card Accumulations for Individual Players:
▪ Red Card #1: 1-game suspension (minimum)
▪ Red Card #2: An additional one-game suspension added.
▪ Red Card #3: A ban for the remainder of the seasonal year.
● YELLOW CARD ACCUMULATIONS:
o After the fifth yellow card in a season, a player is suspended for one game.
o Three additional yellow cards will result in a two-game suspension.
COACH MISCONDUCT
● Should a coach be ejected from a game (shown a red card), the coach is required to immediately leave the premises (must leave sight and sound of the field).
● The coach may coach other games on the day of his/her ejection.
● The coach will then be suspended from ALL games for the first played game day following the ejection. The coach is not permitted to attend or observe any games during this suspension. Note: This is a game day suspension.
● The coach and league will be apprised if the suspension is for greater than one game day.
● A second red card will be automatically assessed with a two-game suspension for all teams, starting the day after the ejection.
● Any coach who is ejected three times (accumulation from all teams) in a seasonal year is immediately banned from all participation in the SCCL for the remainder of the seasonal year.
GAME FORFEITURE
A $250 fine and a loss recorded as 4-0 will be assessed for any game forfeiture. This fine will be charged against the club’s SCCL Bond.
PROTESTS
Game protests must be submitted by Tuesday at 5:00 pm following the game. A payment of $100 must be received by the SCCL prior to consideration of the protest. If the protest is upheld, the protest fee will be refunded. Protests should be submitted to Nancy@southeasternccl.com and checks sent to: Southeastern Clubs Champions League; 860 Johnson Ferry Rd, Ste 140-166, Atlanta, GA 30342.
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Post by supporttherefs on Oct 5, 2020 19:58:59 GMT -5
Allowing had write ins for older ages is a joke. Only 2 reasons for handwritten player: 1. Either an incompetent team manager that does not do the work to legitimize and add the player or 2. The player can legitimately be added and you write in hoping to get away with it Well, I think it's pretty clear on what the SCCL rules state. Handwritten players are allowed as long as the player has a valid player pass and it is verified. What's even more pathetic is when some one hassles the ref in attempt to get the opponent disqualified for handwriting in a guest player. Has sportsmanship gone down the drain? At the end of the day folks, this is youth soccer. This is not MLS, nor the World Cup.
IF you need to resort to cheating to win, then, that in itself is messed up.
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Post by guest on Oct 6, 2020 6:35:10 GMT -5
Since we’re on the subject, in what circumstances do game suspensions carry over? What if you get one in a tournament, do you miss your next regular season match? Or vice versa what if you get one in a regular season match, does it impact the tournament? What if you get one in the last game of the year? Does it carry over to next year? Both situations have happened to teammates.
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Post by soccerspin on Oct 6, 2020 7:49:04 GMT -5
Since we’re on the subject, in what circumstances do game suspensions carry over? What if you get one in a tournament, do you miss your next regular season match? Or vice versa what if you get one in a regular season match, does it impact the tournament? What if you get one in the last game of the year? Does it carry over to next year? Both situations have happened to teammates. The way I’ve always understood it is that tournaments are standalone events. So if you get a red in one tournament game, then you can’t play in the next tournament game. But if you received that red in the final tournament game there would be no carryover to your regular season. And vice versa. Additionally, I’m not aware of cards carrying over to the following season either. You would start anew with that next season - clean slate. |
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Post by soccerloafer on Oct 6, 2020 8:35:18 GMT -5
Cheaters will cheat regardless. Player passes and rosters are easily defeated. 30 years ago I played an entire season with an adult amateur team without being rostered or having a pass - which were checked by the referees before each game.
The reason wasn't super nefarious, I was on temporary assignment to the area and it was easier for everyone to skip the official registration process for one season...
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Post by Keeper on Oct 6, 2020 8:50:22 GMT -5
Since we’re on the subject, in what circumstances do game suspensions carry over? What if you get one in a tournament, do you miss your next regular season match? Or vice versa what if you get one in a regular season match, does it impact the tournament? What if you get one in the last game of the year? Does it carry over to next year? Both situations have happened to teammates. Red cards do not carry over from season to tournaments or vice versa. Red cards (and suspensions) do carry over from season to season. They stay with the player until they are served. Same as if a player gets a Red card while club passing to another team. They would then have to sit the next days game (for their original team). If a player gets a Red Card while club passing say on Saturday morning with club pass team and plays with his original team later that day they don’t have to sit out. The card doesn’t go into effect until the next day. |
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Post by soccermaxx72 on Oct 6, 2020 9:12:07 GMT -5
Allowing had write ins for older ages is a joke. Only 2 reasons for handwritten player: 1. Either an incompetent team manager that does not do the work to legitimize and add the player or 2. The player can legitimately be added and you write in hoping to get away with it Well, I think it's pretty clear on what the SCCL rules state. Handwritten players are allowed as long as the player has a valid player pass and it is verified. What's even more pathetic is when some one hassles the ref in attempt to get the opponent disqualified for handwriting in a guest player. Has sportsmanship gone down the drain? At the end of the day folks, this is youth soccer. This is not MLS, nor the World Cup.
IF you need to resort to cheating to win, then, that in itself is messed up.
I think it’s pretty clear you should have validated players and not have handwrite ins. Probably just an incompetent manager on the team in question |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 6, 2020 9:19:25 GMT -5
It's SCCL soccer, this isn't the world cup. Hand written players are fine, and is exactly what was specified by SCCL.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Oct 6, 2020 10:20:26 GMT -5
Well, I think it's pretty clear on what the SCCL rules state. Handwritten players are allowed as long as the player has a valid player pass and it is verified. What's even more pathetic is when some one hassles the ref in attempt to get the opponent disqualified for handwriting in a guest player. Has sportsmanship gone down the drain? At the end of the day folks, this is youth soccer. This is not MLS, nor the World Cup.
IF you need to resort to cheating to win, then, that in itself is messed up.
I think it’s pretty clear you should have validated players and not have handwrite ins. Probably just an incompetent manager on the team in question Dude Really? Even after my explanation to you from SCCL admins that said it was fine because the gotsoccer.com site search function to find and locate Club Pass players does not always work. I can attest that it doesn't always work. If I seem to remember you already have animosity toward SCCL anyway, so excuse me if I don't take your comments seriously. |
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