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Post by soccernotfootball on Nov 14, 2020 16:47:42 GMT -5
Yes, attend the camp. Yes, speak to coaches. Some may say it's hard to simply attend trouts and make a top team but if your kid is good - he'll make a top team. Period.
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Post by blu on Nov 15, 2020 10:51:46 GMT -5
Just keep in mind that the top team isn't always the best place to be, especially at the younger ages. Playing time, good training, and just keeping the love of the game are much more important. U11 to U15 is just a crazy time as kids develop at different speeds, I've seen kids go from the C team to the A team in one year (and vice versa). Have fun and enjoy!
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Post by atlutd17 on Nov 15, 2020 12:25:52 GMT -5
It is generally a longer process than people's patience. In opposite cases it has often paid off generously...
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Post by rifle on Nov 16, 2020 12:34:25 GMT -5
Just keep in mind that the top team isn't always the best place to be, especially at the younger ages. Playing time, good training, and just keeping the love of the game are much more important. U11 to U15 is just a crazy time as kids develop at different speeds, I've seen kids go from the C team to the A team in one year (and vice versa). Have fun and enjoy! I once heard those ages described as “dog years” because of the physical development disparities. Serious question: Have you honestly seen the vice versa example? |
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Post by soccerparent02 on Nov 16, 2020 17:35:39 GMT -5
Kid played competitive soccer since age 4 and always played up until Select when we kept them at u13 a second year due more to going to the bigger club. Kid still made top team there. With few exceptions, kids on top teams at younger ages stayed on the top teams at older ages. This was true even if they switched clubs. Coaches on top teams recruit from top teams. Kids not moving from top team to 3rd team at different club especially if the current team is playing in the top division.
Many talk about development on this forum. It seems they forget that the top players continue to develop too. Just like other sports, some players are just going to be better no matter what and thats ok. Hopefully part of development is developing a love for the game.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Nov 16, 2020 18:36:35 GMT -5
Serious question: Have you honestly seen the vice versa example? Sadly, sometimes this does occur, especially with girls. Especially in those critical development years of 12/13/14. Sometimes it is biology in play, other times it is the social aspect, new attitude, circumstances with school and the pressure in middle school, or they never had the work ethic in the first place and now it is tough or everyone else catching up physically they just give up but parents still want them to participate, so there you have it... |
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Post by rifle on Nov 16, 2020 21:01:33 GMT -5
Sadly, sometimes this does occur, especially with girls. Especially in those critical development years of 12/13/14. Sometimes it is biology in play, other times it is the social aspect, new attitude, circumstances with school and the pressure in middle school, or they never had the work ethic in the first place and now it is tough or everyone else catching up physically they just give up but parents still want them to participate, so there you have it... I’ve seen kids depart the game altogether if they get dropped from a first team. Playing at an appropriate level should be the goal... |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Nov 16, 2020 21:12:46 GMT -5
Sadly, sometimes this does occur, especially with girls. Especially in those critical development years of 12/13/14. Sometimes it is biology in play, other times it is the social aspect, new attitude, circumstances with school and the pressure in middle school, or they never had the work ethic in the first place and now it is tough or everyone else catching up physically they just give up but parents still want them to participate, so there you have it... I’ve seen kids depart the game altogether if they get dropped from a first team. Playing at an appropriate level should be the goal... I have seen kids quit as well. I think some of it depends on how the drop occurs. Not making a top team in tryouts is one thing. Being dropped in the middle of the season is another. |
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Nov 16, 2020 22:06:36 GMT -5
I’ve seen kids depart the game altogether if they get dropped from a first team. Playing at an appropriate level should be the goal... I have seen kids quit as well. I think some of it depends on how the drop occurs. Not making a top team in tryouts is one thing. Being dropped in the middle of the season is another. So true. IMHO I wish more clubs would have the courage to drop n promote. I remember at UFA the Premier n Red teams paid the same, but I don't recall anyone ever being dropped or promoted between teams other than to guest play if players were needed. I believe the club that wears yellow/gold are one of the few I know of, at least in the early ages that will move players up and down throughout the season. I guess it's one of the ingredients in their secret sauce that I think breeds an atmosphere of constant competition to push their players to sustain the high level of play... P.S. Shhhh, didn't use the actual club name, plz don't let the forum word search algorithms pick up the actual name of the club for fear we start another flame war... |
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Post by ball2futbol on Nov 16, 2020 22:43:00 GMT -5
You’d see less club hopping IMO, if more clubs would adopt that approach!
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Post by oraclesfriend on Nov 17, 2020 8:37:16 GMT -5
I have seen kids quit as well. I think some of it depends on how the drop occurs. Not making a top team in tryouts is one thing. Being dropped in the middle of the season is another. So true. IMHO I wish more clubs would have the courage to drop n promote. I remember at UFA the Premier n Red teams paid the same, but I don't recall anyone ever being dropped or promoted between teams other than to guest play if players were needed. I believe the club that wears yellow/gold are one of the few I know of, at least in the early ages that will move players up and down throughout the season. I guess it's one of the ingredients in their secret sauce that I think breeds an atmosphere of constant competition to push their players to sustain the high level of play... P.S. Shhhh, didn't use the actual club name, plz don't let the forum word search algorithms pick up the actual name of the club for fear we start another flame war... That club pools players through academy ages. I used to hate pool play when I was at academy ages with my older kid. It was chaos on the family schedule. When my younger one did pool play at UFA I loved it. I think it is more appropriate throughout academy ages because kids ebb and flow in their improvement in skills, speed and their growth and may be placed on a team too high or too low for them at one point and this could change up and down many times during the course of the year. However for pool play to work the coaches actually have to be open minded about the players and not just pick based on habit. There should also be rewards to the top team (or higher team if there are multiples) for great effort and focus in training and/or great performance in a game. The whole point is to develop these kids and they should be challenged at times even to a level above what you think they might be able to do because you never know if they can/will step up. |
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Post by mistergrinch on Nov 17, 2020 9:26:12 GMT -5
Kid played competitive soccer since age 4 and always played up until Select when we kept them at u13 a second year due more to going to the bigger club. Kid still made top team there. With few exceptions, kids on top teams at younger ages stayed on the top teams at older ages. This was true even if they switched clubs. Coaches on top teams recruit from top teams. Kids not moving from top team to 3rd team at different club especially if the current team is playing in the top division. Many talk about development on this forum. It seems they forget that the top players continue to develop too. Just like other sports, some players are just going to be better no matter what and thats ok. Hopefully part of development is developing a love for the game. and the top team kids usually have MORE opportunities to develop. They often get extra training, invites to train with better/older teams, invites to guest up (in my experience - top teams rarely pull from second teams.. they pull from younger top teams). The rich get richer.. and they also get the benefit of the doubt when changing clubs. |
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Post by soccerparentx on Nov 17, 2020 10:37:57 GMT -5
Just keep in mind that the top team isn't always the best place to be, especially at the younger ages. Playing time, good training, and just keeping the love of the game are much more important. U11 to U15 is just a crazy time as kids develop at different speeds, I've seen kids go from the C team to the A team in one year (and vice versa). Have fun and enjoy! I knew a kid that ran the gauntlet from U9 through U13. Started on the first team. Next year dropped to the second team. Next year the third team. And then back up to the first team!  Puberty is a b*tch. Keep in mind that the dominant kid at age 9 may become irrelevant at age 13 or 14 simply because overtraining stunted his or her growth OR the mental pressure of always being the best as they are going through puberty breaks them. In summary, find the academy where your kid enjoys playing and meets your standards of development and building character. I know that sounds silly. |
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Post by 04gparent on Nov 17, 2020 10:50:54 GMT -5
This is girls focused... I dont have close up experience with boys...
(1) Depending on where you are, the academy years should focus on developing excellent foot skills. Foot skills will be there if before, during and after puberty. Super athletic or big and tall girls with little foot skills will become in less demand when they are older.
I have seen girls with great foot skills get cut at one club (athena years (13-18)), but make the top team at another club and thrive.
When the girls are older and try out for ODP or go to college camps they will quickly see how valuable this tool is.
(2) Love of the game. There are a lot of theories on how to develop this. Each girl is different, but we taught love of them not based on the team they were on but based on fun with their ball. So we supplimented club play with 3v3s or indoor to get outside of the club bubble. We also encouraged watching LaLiga or PL games AS A FAMILY.
(3) Parents should watch older girls play at their club and at other clubs. This is so important so that parents can learn the girls game for themselves. Watch what makes certain older girls more or less effective.
(4) Make friends with parents of older girls and pick their brains...
I could go on but that is enough...
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Post by SoccerFirst on Nov 17, 2020 14:15:30 GMT -5
This is girls focused... I dont have close up experience with boys... (1) Depending on where you are, the academy years should focus on developing excellent foot skills. Foot skills will be there if before, during and after puberty. Super athletic or big and tall girls with little foot skills will become in less demand when they are older. I have seen girls with great foot skills get cut at one club (athena years (13-18)), but make the top team at another club and thrive. When the girls are older and try out for ODP or go to college camps they will quickly see how valuable this tool is. (2) Love of the game. There are a lot of theories on how to develop this. Each girl is different, but we taught love of them not based on the team they were on but based on fun with their ball. So we supplimented club play with 3v3s or indoor to get outside of the club bubble. We also encouraged watching LaLiga or PL games AS A FAMILY. (3) Parents should watch older girls play at their club and at other clubs. This is so important so that parents can learn the girls game for themselves. Watch what makes certain older girls more or less effective. (4) Make friends with parents of older girls and pick their brains... I could go on but that is enough... A couple things...focus on girls 1. Footskills, if you are referring to first touch, passing/receiving, striking the ball, then yes this is super important to develop during academy ages. Also vital, (I've coached U12/U13 for years) while the players are on the smaller field, playing small sided, speed of play and decision making are also important because once your player hits the full size field, they have more space and often more time, but that doesn't need to slow the game down. Also, starting to read the play and be proactive at U12/13. When to pressure, when to drop off, if you don't have a vocal coach at U12/13 it will be difficult for player to learn these things without encouragement from the sideline. I have high schoolers that have a difficult time realizing, the ball is bouncing toward the defender... PRESSURE! The holding midfielder received the ball with her back to goal, PRESSURE! The outside back has looked, looked down at the ball, looked down again, DROP back line! Watching film helps with this too. 2. Love of the game. First, it has to be fun! Academy kids should NEVER dread practice or matches. Even doing a technical drill can be fun, throw a little competition in there and VOILA, fun. Try to beat coach, EVEN MORE FUN! You also mention watching soccer, and while those are great, you don't mention watching the women's game. Full disclosure, I didn't enjoy watching men or have a real appreciation for the game until I was in high school. Also, I was a kid of the 90s so I got to go see our women win the Olympic Gold in '96 in Athens, GA. I grew up on Hamm, Foudy, Scurry, Faucet, Akers, Overbeck, Parlow, Lilly to name a few. I would encourage ALL girls' parents to encourage your daughters to watch our National team, players like Heath (current favorite, now that Lloyd is retired), Press, Dunn, Ertz, Mewis, Horan, Lavelle. I also encourage them to watch the player that plays "their" position. Lastly, take them to a college game!! Most of our girls, will not make the national team, so will, but most national team players are Division I players. While coaching girls, I always took my girls to a college game, Clemson, UGA, or another local game. Former players and parents, YEARS LATER, still talk about that college experience. Whenever I took my teams to my alma mater, they would get to go on a campus tour, see the locker rooms, weight room, training room, and other athletic facilities. The players would participate as ball girls and get to play on the game field at half time. You want them to LOVE it... I have taken U8-U16s on this experience and they all loved it. Taking academy girls to local competitive high school matches would be a great experience too! 3/4. Agreed, you need someone to confide in if you don't have the experience yourself. If you have a coach/former player you trust she can be an invaluable source. EVERYONE here is more than welcome to direct message me. Remember to HAVE FUN!! |
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Post by blu on Nov 17, 2020 15:26:18 GMT -5
Just keep in mind that the top team isn't always the best place to be, especially at the younger ages. Playing time, good training, and just keeping the love of the game are much more important. U11 to U15 is just a crazy time as kids develop at different speeds, I've seen kids go from the C team to the A team in one year (and vice versa). Have fun and enjoy! I once heard those ages described as “dog years” because of the physical development disparities. Serious question: Have you honestly seen the vice versa example? Yes, I have with several although dropping 2 teams in one year is rare. Most who dropped 2 teams did take 2 years.
The time that really sticks out is when they made the jump to full field at U12 (think this was the age?). Some just didn't have the size to cover that ground but had the skill on the smaller fields previously. Again, only a few.
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Post by DunwoodySoccerDad on Nov 17, 2020 15:50:20 GMT -5
I once heard those ages described as “dog years” because of the physical development disparities. Serious question: Have you honestly seen the vice versa example? Yes, I have with several although dropping 2 teams in one year is rare. Most who dropped 2 teams did take 2 years.
The time that really sticks out is when they made the jump to full field at U12 (think this was the age?). Some just didn't have the size to cover that ground but had the skill on the smaller fields previously. Again, only a few.
U13 is the move to the 11v11 field. It was a tough transition for my oldest but U14 has been better after she had a big growth spurt during the shutdown. |
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Post by soccerparent02 on Nov 17, 2020 17:43:59 GMT -5
The rich get richer? How about there are players who just may be better? If a kid works hard, they can make it to the "top" team. Every year, our kid's top team always dropped bottom 2 or 3 players and added back players trying to improve. This always was the case. Saw it in the teams they played as well.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Nov 17, 2020 20:39:59 GMT -5
The rich get richer? How about there are players who just may be better? If a kid works hard, they can make it to the "top" team. Every year, our kid's top team always dropped bottom 2 or 3 players and added back players trying to improve. This always was the case. Saw it in the teams they played as well. In 4 years at one club they have promoted 1 kid to the top team from within the club from second team. One. From U13 to U16. They cut 2 kids this year. They have always added from outside the club. |
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Post by soccerparent02 on Nov 17, 2020 22:26:42 GMT -5
I never said where they added from in my post. Remember the coaches have infinite amounts of time to observe players from their own club, tryouts, practice, games, showcases, etc. They also can go watch players from other teams or when they actually play them. This not promoting from within statement assumes the next teams in the same age group have players who can make the next team. By u14/u15 the coaches know the top players in the age group and the players do as well.
Coaches rely often on players to recruit those top 2 or 3 players from other clubs to improve their team. They know them from showcases, indoor, high school, futsal, camps, etc.
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Post by 04gparent on Nov 18, 2020 0:26:14 GMT -5
(Girls focused)
The Academy years can and should be so much fun. The girls game has changed so much recently that some parts of the Academy approach has to change with it. Just 5 years ago the highest level of girls soccer was only available to 2 or 3 clubs and thus those precious 36 to 48 spots were highly coveted and ultra competitive. It doesnt appear to be that way anymore. The Atlanta area now has ECNL (5) and GA (2) seven teams at the highest level.
Is the competition for the top spots now as competitve as it was before? I dont think so but only time will tell. Clearly more spots creates more exposure for more girls, which is good.
Will this stop the movement of top players to 2 or 3 teams? We will see...
If I had a daughter who was 2013, 2012, or 2011, my goal would be to own her development. The club can only do so much in 4.5 hours a week. I dont know not one player who is signing a college scholarship that was not already putting in extra work in the academy (I am sure there are some...) Of course make it fun, make it family oriented, but find a way to put build the foot skills (1st touch, total control of the ball with both feet, speed while dribbling, shooting ability)
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Post by oraclesfriend on Nov 18, 2020 7:16:00 GMT -5
(Girls focused) The Academy years can and should be so much fun. The girls game has changed so much recently that some parts of the Academy approach has to change with it. Just 5 years ago the highest level of girls soccer was only available to 2 or 3 clubs and thus those precious 36 to 48 spots were highly coveted and ultra competitive. It doesnt appear to be that way anymore. The Atlanta area now has ECNL (5) and GA (2) seven teams at the highest level. Is the competition for the top spots now as competitve as it was before? I dont think so but only time will tell. Clearly more spots creates more exposure for more girls, which is good. Will this stop the movement of top players to 2 or 3 teams? We will see... If I had a daughter who was 2013, 2012, or 2011, my goal would be to own her development. The club can only do so much in 4.5 hours a week. I dont know not one player who is signing a college scholarship that was not already putting in extra work in the academy (I am sure there are some...) Of course make it fun, make it family oriented, but find a way to put build the foot skills (1st touch, total control of the ball with both feet, speed while dribbling, shooting ability) Totally agree with this statement. I would say if you have a 2010 or 2009 player it is not too late to start this either. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Nov 18, 2020 7:20:14 GMT -5
I never said where they added from in my post. Remember the coaches have infinite amounts of time to observe players from their own club, tryouts, practice, games, showcases, etc. They also can go watch players from other teams or when they actually play them. This not promoting from within statement assumes the next teams in the same age group have players who can make the next team. By u14/u15 the coaches know the top players in the age group and the players do as well. Coaches rely often on players to recruit those top 2 or 3 players from other clubs to improve their team. They know them from showcases, indoor, high school, futsal, camps, etc. Point taken. Interestingly I have seen those kids not taken within the club get picked up outside the club. Coaches do know the top 2-3 kids from other clubs but those are not the only ones who can improve a team. The top 2 or 3 from the second team are often better than ones on the top team but coaches sometimes stop looking at the second team at their own club. A fresh set of eyes finds them better than their own club did and they move. As you stated in your other post there are 7 teams in the elite leagues so there are often places to go. However if clubs are really trying to develop players that should attempt to promote from within. |
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Post by mistergrinch on Nov 18, 2020 9:31:59 GMT -5
Remember the coaches have infinite amounts of time to observe players from their own club, tryouts, practice, games, showcases, etc. But in my experience, they rarely do. They often have conflicting trainings.. sometimes at totally different locations.
In all the years I've been doing this, I'm not sure I've ever seen the top team coaches watch the second team trainings or games more than once or twice. It SHOULD be an obvious way to build out a team/club.. maybe they're just lazy, maybe they think they know better? I don't know why, but if it's happening it's not at any club I've been involved in.
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Post by DunwoodySoccerDad on Nov 18, 2020 9:49:57 GMT -5
Remember the coaches have infinite amounts of time to observe players from their own club, tryouts, practice, games, showcases, etc. But in my experience, they rarely do. They often have conflicting trainings.. sometimes at totally different locations.
In all the years I've been doing this, I'm not sure I've ever seen the top team coaches watch the second team trainings or games more than once or twice. It SHOULD be an obvious way to build out a team/club.. maybe they're just lazy, maybe they think they know better? I don't know why, but if it's happening it's not at any club I've been involved in.
Yep. |
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Post by blu on Nov 18, 2020 10:18:01 GMT -5
Remember the coaches have infinite amounts of time to observe players from their own club, tryouts, practice, games, showcases, etc. But in my experience, they rarely do. They often have conflicting trainings.. sometimes at totally different locations.
In all the years I've been doing this, I'm not sure I've ever seen the top team coaches watch the second team trainings or games more than once or twice. It SHOULD be an obvious way to build out a team/club.. maybe they're just lazy, maybe they think they know better? I don't know why, but if it's happening it's not at any club I've been involved in.
Just a quick point on this, I know at GSA coaches using the Veo platform (ECNL/SCCL) can view all the games recorded very easily. I've spoken to a few and they do check out other players.
Us parents can too. I can watch all the GSA games recorded, boys and girls of any age group. |
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Post by soccernoleuk on Nov 18, 2020 12:07:48 GMT -5
But in my experience, they rarely do. They often have conflicting trainings.. sometimes at totally different locations.
In all the years I've been doing this, I'm not sure I've ever seen the top team coaches watch the second team trainings or games more than once or twice. It SHOULD be an obvious way to build out a team/club.. maybe they're just lazy, maybe they think they know better? I don't know why, but if it's happening it's not at any club I've been involved in.
Just a quick point on this, I know at GSA coaches using the Veo platform (ECNL/SCCL) can view all the games recorded very easily. I've spoken to a few and they do check out other players.
Us parents can too. I can watch all the GSA games recorded, boys and girls of any age group. This is interesting, and I'm curious to know how? Our team (SCCL) purchased the Veo system ourselves and access is not shared across all coaches within the club (GSA). Currently we have our coach listed as well as all parents for the team, and that is all. I'm sure the club has their own system(s) with accounts, but it is certainly not club wide with open access to all coaches. If that is the case, I would like a refund as I didn't pay my portion so the club could have full access on my dime. |
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Post by blu on Nov 18, 2020 12:25:18 GMT -5
Just a quick point on this, I know at GSA coaches using the Veo platform (ECNL/SCCL) can view all the games recorded very easily. I've spoken to a few and they do check out other players.
Us parents can too. I can watch all the GSA games recorded, boys and girls of any age group. This is interesting, and I'm curious to know how? Our team (SCCL) purchased the Veo system ourselves and access is not shared across all coaches within the club (GSA). Currently we have our coach listed as well as all parents for the team, and that is all. I'm sure the club has their own system(s) with accounts, but it is certainly not club wide with open access to all coaches. If that is the case, I would like a refund as I didn't pay my portion so the club could have full access on my dime. Click on the 3 bars in the top right and select the "My Club" option. All the recordings are there. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Nov 18, 2020 12:32:37 GMT -5
But in my experience, they rarely do. They often have conflicting trainings.. sometimes at totally different locations.
In all the years I've been doing this, I'm not sure I've ever seen the top team coaches watch the second team trainings or games more than once or twice. It SHOULD be an obvious way to build out a team/club.. maybe they're just lazy, maybe they think they know better? I don't know why, but if it's happening it's not at any club I've been involved in.
Just a quick point on this, I know at GSA coaches using the Veo platform (ECNL/SCCL) can view all the games recorded very easily. I've spoken to a few and they do check out other players.
Us parents can too. I can watch all the GSA games recorded, boys and girls of any age group. Maybe they actually watch them too. Regardless this a brand new thing. I know our club has a platform and I can get the stats on other players within the club. It is a great way to see how your kid is doing. |
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Post by soccernoleuk on Nov 18, 2020 13:06:15 GMT -5
This is interesting, and I'm curious to know how? Our team (SCCL) purchased the Veo system ourselves and access is not shared across all coaches within the club (GSA). Currently we have our coach listed as well as all parents for the team, and that is all. I'm sure the club has their own system(s) with accounts, but it is certainly not club wide with open access to all coaches. If that is the case, I would like a refund as I didn't pay my portion so the club could have full access on my dime. Click on the 3 bars in the top right and select the "My Club" option. All the recordings are there. So, when you do that, can you see the '07 Girls SCCL, '06 Girls SCCL or the '05 Girls ECNL? When I click that all I see is our team, not all the other GSA teams. I know the '05 team & '07 team mentioned are part of the same group as a parent with a player on both is the person that purchased the camera and setup the system. He did this because he is also using it for the High School season. As far as I know, the '06 team mentioned doesn't use Veo at all. Also, I am sure Drew, Campbell & others can share their passwords if necessary. However, our coach has yet to even log into the system, so I know he hasn't shared anything with anyone. |
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Puberty is a b*tch. 
