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Post by bogan on Nov 25, 2020 18:21:54 GMT -5
From Skip Gilbert CEO at USYS :
We are hearing that too many parents and even some players are being verbally abusive to our referees. This must stop as everyone needs to respect the game. Let the refs ref, let them do their job. #LettheRefsRef
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Nov 30, 2020 7:21:52 GMT -5
From Skip Gilbert CEO at USYS : We are hearing that too many parents and even some players are being verbally abusive to our referees. This must stop as everyone needs to respect the game. Let the refs ref, let them do their job. #LettheRefsRef Being a referee myself and my son as well I agree in some respects. Also though the referees need to self-reflect and mentor each other into making their part of the game as error free as possible. If I make a bad call or my son makes a bad call I expect to hear a little from coaches and parents on it. In the course of any given game most referees will make an error. Most of the time it is just who it went out on on the touchline because neither them nor the AR could see clearly who it went off of but Johnny's parents clearly saw it. Most of the time these small errors don't change the outcome of the game. A referee should always strive to make sure he makes the right calls, and to make sure any slight errors or small errors do not affect the outcome of the game. So far so good on the part of myself and my son, but I would be mortified if an error I made changed the outcome of a game. |
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Post by soccerparentx on Nov 30, 2020 9:10:28 GMT -5
From Skip Gilbert CEO at USYS : We are hearing that too many parents and even some players are being verbally abusive to our referees. This must stop as everyone needs to respect the game. Let the refs ref, let them do their job. #LettheRefsRef What is the root cause of parents and players being verbally abusive? I think that this should not all be on parents and players even though I COMPLETELY get how out of control the environment can get... |
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Post by DunwoodySoccerDad on Nov 30, 2020 9:12:39 GMT -5
My biggest gripe with refs in youth soccer has to be when you have a teenager reffing the game and, like clockwork, they barely call any fouls. I don't know why they seem so hesitant to call a foul. Which many times will lead to a very rough game that can get out of hand and becomes less soccer and more like rugby or American football. My favorite (sarcasm) is when the same ref won't call anything all game and then late in the game calls a ticky-tack foul. Absolutely drives me nuts.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Nov 30, 2020 9:23:35 GMT -5
My biggest gripe with refs in youth soccer has to be when you have a teenager reffing the game and, like clockwork, they barely call any fouls. I don't know why they seem so hesitant to call a foul. Which many times will lead to a very rough game that can get out of hand and becomes less soccer and more like rugby or American football. My favorite (sarcasm) is when the same ref won't call anything all game and then late in the game calls a ticky-tack foul. Absolutely drives me nuts. I agree I have ARed with teenagers who barely call fouls. I try my hardest as an AR to call the fouls I see in this situation, but that doesn't always equate to the center calling them as well and just not ignoring my flag. I will have to admit that is the toughest thing so far refereeing for me. Being an AR and seeing the center not call it the way I would or ignoring me as an AR especially when that center is as young as my kid I'm 25-30 years his senior. My other gripe is the teenagers that are there for a paycheck and really don't put any effort into doing a good job at AR or center even after being mentored by the assignor or by older referees into proper techniques and rules. As far as physical play, I am more in the let them play route the older they are as long as they are both going for the ball and it isn't getting dangerous, but I don't have a problem calling fouls, giving warnings and cards if need be. I will say that not everything parents think are fouls are actual fouls and perspective on the field and angle sometimes makes it look one way when the referee saw it better (slide tackles or normal tackles where player gets all ball and the attacking player runs into the defender after the fact, etc....) The same goes with offsides as well. If you aren't on the line where the AR is then you can't complain about whether the attacker was off or on. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Nov 30, 2020 9:26:45 GMT -5
From Skip Gilbert CEO at USYS : We are hearing that too many parents and even some players are being verbally abusive to our referees. This must stop as everyone needs to respect the game. Let the refs ref, let them do their job. #LettheRefsRef What is the root cause of parents and players being verbally abusive? I think that this should not all be on parents and players even though I COMPLETELY get how out of control the environment can get... I know my son will speak up if he thinks its a bad call in a game he is playing, but I think that is because he knows the rules and is a referee himself. He is respectful but he will tell a referee that he was wrong and that isn't a foul, or offsides, or whatever the bad call was. I got no issues with a player respectfully asking or saying a call was not right. If they get disrespectful or continue after the referee says to stop is where I have an issue. |
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Post by DunwoodySoccerDad on Nov 30, 2020 9:44:19 GMT -5
My biggest gripe with refs in youth soccer has to be when you have a teenager reffing the game and, like clockwork, they barely call any fouls. I don't know why they seem so hesitant to call a foul. Which many times will lead to a very rough game that can get out of hand and becomes less soccer and more like rugby or American football. My favorite (sarcasm) is when the same ref won't call anything all game and then late in the game calls a ticky-tack foul. Absolutely drives me nuts. I agree I have ARed with teenagers who barely call fouls. I try my hardest as an AR to call the fouls I see in this situation, but that doesn't always equate to the center calling them as well and just not ignoring my flag. I will have to admit that is the toughest thing so far refereeing for me. Being an AR and seeing the center not call it the way I would or ignoring me as an AR especially when that center is as young as my kid I'm 25-30 years his senior. My other gripe is the teenagers that are there for a paycheck and really don't put any effort into doing a good job at AR or center even after being mentored by the assignor or by older referees into proper techniques and rules. As far as physical play, I am more in the let them play route the older they are as long as they are both going for the ball and it isn't getting dangerous, but I don't have a problem calling fouls, giving warnings and cards if need be. I will say that not everything parents think are fouls are actual fouls and perspective on the field and angle sometimes makes it look one way when the referee saw it better (slide tackles or normal tackles where player gets all ball and the attacking player runs into the defender after the fact, etc....) The same goes with offsides as well. If you aren't on the line where the AR is then you can't complain about whether the attacker was off or on. Yeah that's the impression I get when I see teenagers reffing games (just there for the paycheck). I get it, I was a working teenager too and needed money, but I didn't sleepwalk through my job. I will say that when my younger daughter played in a tournament at CESA in Greenville a few weeks ago, the refs (who were young) were VERY impressive. Not afraid to call fouls and, my favorite part, explained the rules to the girls when they had to call something (these were U11 games, so they're still learning). The best was when our best defender did a perfect slide tackle in our box and the ref didn't call anything. Other team's parents lost their minds but it was just a great play by our defender. |
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Post by mistergrinch on Nov 30, 2020 9:55:01 GMT -5
I'm fine with getting throws wrong, etc.. it's when they let the game get out of hand that I see parents get upset. Refs far too often just let it get rough.. and by the time they try to rein it in, it's way too late.
Mistakes happen, wins and losses don't really matter until the much older ages.. but protect the kids from unnecessary injuries.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Nov 30, 2020 11:30:04 GMT -5
I agree I have ARed with teenagers who barely call fouls. I try my hardest as an AR to call the fouls I see in this situation, but that doesn't always equate to the center calling them as well and just not ignoring my flag. I will have to admit that is the toughest thing so far refereeing for me. Being an AR and seeing the center not call it the way I would or ignoring me as an AR especially when that center is as young as my kid I'm 25-30 years his senior. My other gripe is the teenagers that are there for a paycheck and really don't put any effort into doing a good job at AR or center even after being mentored by the assignor or by older referees into proper techniques and rules. As far as physical play, I am more in the let them play route the older they are as long as they are both going for the ball and it isn't getting dangerous, but I don't have a problem calling fouls, giving warnings and cards if need be. I will say that not everything parents think are fouls are actual fouls and perspective on the field and angle sometimes makes it look one way when the referee saw it better (slide tackles or normal tackles where player gets all ball and the attacking player runs into the defender after the fact, etc....) The same goes with offsides as well. If you aren't on the line where the AR is then you can't complain about whether the attacker was off or on. Yeah that's the impression I get when I see teenagers reffing games (just there for the paycheck). I get it, I was a working teenager too and needed money, but I didn't sleepwalk through my job. I will say that when my younger daughter played in a tournament at CESA in Greenville a few weeks ago, the refs (who were young) were VERY impressive. Not afraid to call fouls and, my favorite part, explained the rules to the girls when they had to call something (these were U11 games, so they're still learning). The best was when our best defender did a perfect slide tackle in our box and the ref didn't call anything. Other team's parents lost their minds but it was just a great play by our defender. I'm very vocal especially in younger games and small sided games. I am as much vocal to explain to the kids as I am the coach and parents. I'll even interact as an AR2 on the parent sideline if they are complaining and explain the rule to them. 9 times out of 10 if you explain the rules and the reasoning for any call you disarm and usually get them to be quiet if not apologize. I will agree it is hard for teenagers to find their voice in a sea of people that are way older than them though. |
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Post by Shesakeeper on Nov 30, 2020 17:54:26 GMT -5
My only real issue is when the refs are, as someone said above, just there for the paycheck. My u10 youngest son played in a tournament a few weeks back and we got one of those. Dude looked like he'd wandered in from the bar he just closed down, eyes at half mast, slightly green tinged, not moving with the play...it was bad. The game got rough, and then rougher until the boys were physically shoving and pushing and several ended up in tears. The guy just stood there, it was awful. Only time I have ever reported a ref to his assignor. My u16 daughter refs, so I tend to give a lot of leniency, 99% of the refs are trying their best. I have seen her get ripped into and it broke my heart, so I try really hard to be supportive.
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Post by rifle on Nov 30, 2020 20:51:34 GMT -5
I'm very vocal especially in younger games and small sided games. I am as much vocal to explain to the kids as I am the coach and parents. I'll even interact as an AR2 on the parent sideline if they are complaining and explain the rule to them. 9 times out of 10 if you explain the rules and the reasoning for any call you disarm and usually get them to be quiet if not apologize. I will agree it is hard for teenagers to find their voice in a sea of people that are way older than them though. I’ve done the same. But.. Last year I had a younger center (mid 20’s who has worked a lot of high level games) tell me emphatically to NEVER do that. All I did was jog up the line, to the fence (but keeping eyes toward the field) and tell the irate dad of a 13 year old girl why she had just been yellow carded. She made a simple challenge with her cleats up. It wasn’t malicious it was more clumsy and I told him that’s why she was carded. Also told him to discuss it with her... and told him she was a damn good player. He shut up and seemed to appreciate the explanation- he didn’t have a good angle to see it. The CR noticed mostly because I jogged over to him, about 25 yards away during a substitution that followed the card. I’m pretty sure I would do it again if I felt like it would help. |
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Post by DunwoodySoccerDad on Nov 30, 2020 21:08:41 GMT -5
I'm very vocal especially in younger games and small sided games. I am as much vocal to explain to the kids as I am the coach and parents. I'll even interact as an AR2 on the parent sideline if they are complaining and explain the rule to them. 9 times out of 10 if you explain the rules and the reasoning for any call you disarm and usually get them to be quiet if not apologize. I will agree it is hard for teenagers to find their voice in a sea of people that are way older than them though. I’ve done the same. But.. Last year I had a younger center (mid 20’s who has worked a lot of high level games) tell me emphatically to NEVER do that. All I did was jog up the line, to the fence (but keeping eyes toward the field) and tell the irate dad of a 13 year old girl why she had just been yellow carded. She made a simple challenge with her cleats up. It wasn’t malicious it was more clumsy and I told him that’s why she was carded. Also told him to discuss it with her... and told him she was a damn good player. He shut up and seemed to appreciate the explanation- he didn’t have a good angle to see it. The CR noticed mostly because I jogged over to him, about 25 yards away during a substitution that followed the card. I’m pretty sure I would do it again if I felt like it would help. Why did he tell you to never do that? |
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Post by bogan on Nov 30, 2020 21:10:25 GMT -5
I'm very vocal especially in younger games and small sided games. I am as much vocal to explain to the kids as I am the coach and parents. I'll even interact as an AR2 on the parent sideline if they are complaining and explain the rule to them. 9 times out of 10 if you explain the rules and the reasoning for any call you disarm and usually get them to be quiet if not apologize. I will agree it is hard for teenagers to find their voice in a sea of people that are way older than them though. I’ve done the same. But.. Last year I had a younger center (mid 20’s who has worked a lot of high level games) tell me emphatically to NEVER do that. All I did was jog up the line, to the fence (but keeping eyes toward the field) and tell the irate dad of a 13 year old girl why she had just been yellow carded. She made a simple challenge with her cleats up. It wasn’t malicious it was more clumsy and I told him that’s why she was carded. Also told him to discuss it with her... and told him she was a damn good player. He shut up and seemed to appreciate the explanation- he didn’t have a good angle to see it. The CR noticed mostly because I jogged over to him, about 25 yards away during a substitution that followed the card. I’m pretty sure I would do it again if I felt like it would help. Did he (CR) feel like you were trying to “one up” him? |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Dec 1, 2020 7:56:58 GMT -5
I'm very vocal especially in younger games and small sided games. I am as much vocal to explain to the kids as I am the coach and parents. I'll even interact as an AR2 on the parent sideline if they are complaining and explain the rule to them. 9 times out of 10 if you explain the rules and the reasoning for any call you disarm and usually get them to be quiet if not apologize. I will agree it is hard for teenagers to find their voice in a sea of people that are way older than them though. I’ve done the same. But.. Last year I had a younger center (mid 20’s who has worked a lot of high level games) tell me emphatically to NEVER do that. All I did was jog up the line, to the fence (but keeping eyes toward the field) and tell the irate dad of a 13 year old girl why she had just been yellow carded. She made a simple challenge with her cleats up. It wasn’t malicious it was more clumsy and I told him that’s why she was carded. Also told him to discuss it with her... and told him she was a damn good player. He shut up and seemed to appreciate the explanation- he didn’t have a good angle to see it. The CR noticed mostly because I jogged over to him, about 25 yards away during a substitution that followed the card. I’m pretty sure I would do it again if I felt like it would help. It really depends on the center whether I would do this or not though. If the Center is older than me or has a lot more experience than me I might not do that for that game, but generally if I am an AR and the center is a younger teenager me doing this generally helps the center out from getting yelled at and they are usually appreciative of it. I'm less likely to interact as an AR if I feel like the center has things under control and is old enough to handle himself. |
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Post by soccerparentx on Dec 1, 2020 11:58:29 GMT -5
I'm fine with getting throws wrong, etc.. it's when they let the game get out of hand that I see parents get upset. Refs far too often just let it get rough.. and by the time they try to rein it in, it's way too late. Mistakes happen, wins and losses don't really matter until the much older ages.. but protect the kids from unnecessary injuries. Completely agree. Not knowing the difference between a push in the back with arms extended and a shoulder charge is inexcusable. Identifying the kid that slide tackles all of the time should be a no brainer. Tackling from behind at the younger levels (U8-U12) is rarely clean unless a kid has impeccable timing. I'm sure there are more examples basic calls to keep players safe that youth refs just don't seem to comprehend. These are basics that any ref can get control of early in a game to let the kids play the game as it's intended and not turn it into an faster version of aggressive recreational soccer. |
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Post by soccerloafer on Dec 1, 2020 13:32:21 GMT -5
I’ve done the same. But.. Last year I had a younger center (mid 20’s who has worked a lot of high level games) tell me emphatically to NEVER do that. All I did was jog up the line, to the fence (but keeping eyes toward the field) and tell the irate dad of a 13 year old girl why she had just been yellow carded. She made a simple challenge with her cleats up. It wasn’t malicious it was more clumsy and I told him that’s why she was carded. Also told him to discuss it with her... and told him she was a damn good player. He shut up and seemed to appreciate the explanation- he didn’t have a good angle to see it. The CR noticed mostly because I jogged over to him, about 25 yards away during a substitution that followed the card. I’m pretty sure I would do it again if I felt like it would help. Why did he tell you to never do that? Because he was an insecure douchebag on a power trip. |
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Post by rifle on Dec 2, 2020 7:02:59 GMT -5
Why did he tell you to never do that? Not sure. I didn’t feel the need to debate but it definitely wasn’t done because he is younger. I just thought it would help cool a sideline that was getting hotter. It did. |
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Post by soccerspin on Dec 2, 2020 9:54:39 GMT -5
Just wanted to say that as a parent I really appreciate this thread. As my player has gotten older I’ve also questioned some of the games as they were out of control and kids were ready to throw punches (coach agreed). I certainly don’t pretend to know all the ins and outs of reffing as I’m not one, but it’s not hard to recognize a game that’s escalating in “contact” versus one that does not because the ref doesn’t allow it. So it was disappointing to hear the expected response to my inquiry that “the game gets more physical as the kids get older” so I needed to just get used to it.
All of that is to say I’m thankful to hear from actual refs in this forum who are actively trying to keep these games under control. As other posters have mentioned, and I’m in full agreement, first and foremost it is about safe play.
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Post by georgiasoccerdad on Dec 2, 2020 12:39:28 GMT -5
Yeah that's the impression I get when I see teenagers reffing games (just there for the paycheck). I get it, I was a working teenager too and needed money, but I didn't sleepwalk through my job. I will say that when my younger daughter played in a tournament at CESA in Greenville a few weeks ago, the refs (who were young) were VERY impressive. Not afraid to call fouls and, my favorite part, explained the rules to the girls when they had to call something (these were U11 games, so they're still learning). The best was when our best defender did a perfect slide tackle in our box and the ref didn't call anything. Other team's parents lost their minds but it was just a great play by our defender. I'm very vocal especially in younger games and small sided games. I am as much vocal to explain to the kids as I am the coach and parents. I'll even interact as an AR2 on the parent sideline if they are complaining and explain the rule to them. 9 times out of 10 if you explain the rules and the reasoning for any call you disarm and usually get them to be quiet if not apologize. I will agree it is hard for teenagers to find their voice in a sea of people that are way older than them though. Best refs I've seen are the ones who take time to listen to the kids and explain the call. Kids might not agree but at least they have been heard. Worst refs- the ones who ignore the kids completely. No need for that. |
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Post by futbolmama on Dec 6, 2020 10:56:44 GMT -5
U10 boys game GSA tournament
A player is fouled a couple of times during first half (nothing major nor nasty)
Second half comes around, player is fouled again and on the ground
Again nothing major, the player was a little dramatic, most boys shack it off and continue
the dad then gets on the field and starts to yell at the REF , the ref was at most a 15 year old boy
It seemed like dad was about to get physical with the REF getting in his face (not exaggerating)
The coach of the fouled player did not even flench, the coach from the other team was getting on the field as well as two parents from the team to stop this parent from getting physical with a minor ref
Poor ref, no wonder there is a shortage of refs
This parent was still on the field, he should have definitely got removed from the fields by the ref or coach.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Dec 7, 2020 8:01:16 GMT -5
U10 boys game GSA tournament A player is fouled a couple of times during first half (nothing major nor nasty) Second half comes around, player is fouled again and on the ground Again nothing major, the player was a little dramatic, most boys shack it off and continue the dad then gets on the field and starts to yell at the REF , the ref was at most a 15 year old boy It seemed like dad was about to get physical with the REF getting in his face (not exaggerating) The coach of the fouled player did not even flench, the coach from the other team was getting on the field as well as two parents from the team to stop this parent from getting physical with a minor ref Poor ref, no wonder there is a shortage of refs This parent was still on the field, he should have definitely got removed from the fields by the ref or coach. Parent should not have done that, but let me ask this were the fouls called where the kid got fouled several times or were they not called? A parent should never approach a referee especially a minor one but to play devils advocate here did the referee let the game get out of control by not calling the fouls that needed to be called to de-escalate the situation and to get control of the game? |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Dec 7, 2020 12:02:55 GMT -5
My one poor reffing anecdote from the weekend: Late in a close game (I think it was 1-1 at that point) my daughter was facing 2 center-backs with the ball about 10 yards outside the opponent's 18. She went on a fast dribble, split the backs, ball at her feet and the defenders turned inward and gave chase. She entered the 18 (again ball at her feet with pace - she's VERY fast), the defender on her right tripped and stumbled, caused my kid to stumble, the defender went to ground, my daughter maintained balance, got control and put the ball into the back of the net. Center ref calls the goal back because somehow my kid, with the ball at her feet and running vertically towards the goal, was also able to trip the defender; the defense was awarded a free kick inside their 18. In what world is it called this way? I could see if my kid used her arms to push the defender away, but that's pretty hard to do when you're sprinting. Had my daughter not gotten the shot off, I'd have said its a caution of the defender and a PK. But this ref also awarded the other team about 7 free kicks to our 2 and was much more vocal about our team and masks than the other team.
My kid snagged an assist moments later and then they added another tack on goal in the final minute.
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Post by soccerlegacy on Dec 7, 2020 12:25:29 GMT -5
U10 boys game GSA tournament A player is fouled a couple of times during first half (nothing major nor nasty) Second half comes around, player is fouled again and on the ground Again nothing major, the player was a little dramatic, most boys shack it off and continue the dad then gets on the field and starts to yell at the REF , the ref was at most a 15 year old boy It seemed like dad was about to get physical with the REF getting in his face (not exaggerating) The coach of the fouled player did not even flench, the coach from the other team was getting on the field as well as two parents from the team to stop this parent from getting physical with a minor ref Poor ref, no wonder there is a shortage of refs This parent was still on the field, he should have definitely got removed from the fields by the ref or coach. WOW. That parent needs to check his temper. I've raised my voice a time or two (okay more than that) when I've seen blatant, bad reffing and always had a horrible feeling of embarrassment IMMEDEIATLEY afterward. I've gotten much better over the years....Lol, honestly! Most, if not all games, they'll never hear from me, and if I do make a comment about the reffing, it is usually just to wake them up because they are just going through the motions and not engaged in the game. If the ref is honestly working out there and putting in the effort, I'm fine.... It's the refs that are lacking any care that bother me. Side note: I recently saw a ref blow the whistle for a foul, a parent (not me) who had been frustrated say something like " it's about time you called something" and then intentionally reverse the call so the other team got the free kick. I know this because after the kick, he looked over to the sideline and gave a smirk and a thumbs up to the parents. Sometimes refs can take things too personal too. |
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