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Post by bogan on Dec 8, 2020 9:54:36 GMT -5
Don’t they need some sort of paperwork proving a birthdate (even if it is an assigned one upon reaching this country) for school? So why can’t that same paperwork be used for soccer? I’m not sure what they used to register-but only a green card was presented I am told. Of course, there is the other story floating around about the two brothers switching uniforms...🤷🏻♂️ |
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Post by baller84 on Dec 8, 2020 10:59:07 GMT -5
I honestly do not understand how a legal person in the US would not be in position to provide an official valid document with proof of age. Birth certificates have no pics but they tie a name with a DOB. What about valid passport or valid green card, or school ID or insurance or drivers license later on? Don't all of them require proof of DOB and have a pic? I also said "valid" proof because an expired one would likely have an old pic or a pic of the player when he was a baby that would be almost impossible for anyone to verify that it's the same person.
What does USYS do at Regionals/Nationals and what have MLS/USL/ECNL been doing with their competitions for proof of age AND photo identity? Why would GA be any different?
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Post by Keeper on Dec 8, 2020 13:45:51 GMT -5
Doesn't US Club insist on birth certificates? Yes, or green cards, drivers license and passports work too. But yes it has to be a legal document and uploaded and approved prior to a player being out on the roster/player pass to print. Unlike Ga Soccer which just needs a name, dob and address to be registered. |
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Post by bogan on Dec 8, 2020 13:50:35 GMT -5
Doesn't US Club insist on birth certificates? Yes, or green cards, drivers license and passports work too. But yes it has to be a legal document and uploaded and approved prior to a player being out on the roster/player pass to print. Unlike Ga Soccer which just needs a name, dob and address to be registered. As info, from GA soccer website: Proof of age shall consist of a birth certificate, a Uniformed Services Identification and Privilege Card (DD Form 1173), a birth registration issued by an appropriate government agency, or board of health records, a passport, an alien registration card issued by the United States Government, a certificate issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service attesting to age, a current driver’s license, an unexpired federal, state, or local government identification card or a certification of a United States citizen born abroad issued by the appropriate government agency. Hospital, baptismal, or religious certificates will not be accepted. See Rule 170.2c for details. Any team playing a player who is over-age shall forfeit the game(s) in which that player takes part. A player may play in their proper age group, or in an older age group. A player may NOT play in a younger age group. For regular-season play, once rostered to a team, a player is considered to be the age of that team. |
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Post by Keeper on Dec 8, 2020 13:55:00 GMT -5
Yes, or green cards, drivers license and passports work too. But yes it has to be a legal document and uploaded and approved prior to a player being out on the roster/player pass to print. Unlike Ga Soccer which just needs a name, dob and address to be registered. As info, from GA soccer website: Proof of age shall consist of a birth certificate, a Uniformed Services Identification and Privilege Card (DD Form 1173), a birth registration issued by an appropriate government agency, or board of health records, a passport, an alien registration card issued by the United States Government, a certificate issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service attesting to age, a current driver’s license, an unexpired federal, state, or local government identification card or a certification of a United States citizen born abroad issued by the appropriate government agency. Hospital, baptismal, or religious certificates will not be accepted. See Rule 170.2c for details. Any team playing a player who is over-age shall forfeit the game(s) in which that player takes part. A player may play in their proper age group, or in an older age group. A player may NOT play in a younger age group. For regular-season play, once rostered to a team, a player is considered to be the age of that team. Yep but that’s only if it’s ever asked or requested. But when you register and declare players in SportsAffinity for GA Soccer you don’t need any of that unlike USClub which requires it before approving any player. GaSoccer works on a very old honor system as they never wanted to turn players away in case a document wasn’t available but then people took advantage of it. |
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Post by bogan on Dec 8, 2020 13:57:08 GMT -5
As info, from GA soccer website: Proof of age shall consist of a birth certificate, a Uniformed Services Identification and Privilege Card (DD Form 1173), a birth registration issued by an appropriate government agency, or board of health records, a passport, an alien registration card issued by the United States Government, a certificate issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service attesting to age, a current driver’s license, an unexpired federal, state, or local government identification card or a certification of a United States citizen born abroad issued by the appropriate government agency. Hospital, baptismal, or religious certificates will not be accepted. See Rule 170.2c for details. Any team playing a player who is over-age shall forfeit the game(s) in which that player takes part. A player may play in their proper age group, or in an older age group. A player may NOT play in a younger age group. For regular-season play, once rostered to a team, a player is considered to be the age of that team. Yep but that’s only if it’s ever asked or requested. But when you register and declare players in SportsAffinity for GA Soccer you don’t need any of that unlike USClub which requires it before approving any player. GaSoccer works on a very old honor system as they never wanted to turn players away in case a document wasn’t available but then people took advantage of it. Yes-you are correct. Unless it’s asked for it’s the honor system. |
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Post by flamengo100 on Dec 8, 2020 14:12:36 GMT -5
I can empathize with these kids but still hold GA soccer accountable in addition to KSA.
I was born in South America and my father is from South Africa. That country simply lost his birth certificate and didn't have any record of him when we immigrated to the US so it was an extremely difficult process to reproduce that certificate. I grew up in Dekalb County and had high school teammates who lived in Clarkston which has one of the highest concentrated populations of refugees in the state. I believe a lot of the kids who play in KSA live in that area but I could be wrong.
With all that said, GA soccer has to be held accountable for the recurring issues. I was a team manager and GA soccer never requested copies of birth certificates while US Club soccer does request the certificates and the approval process takes a number of days. Our team played against the KSA 07 team and six of their kids were also on the 06 roster when at that time you could only club roster 3 players.
Super Y also had a pretty intense review of players who were born outside the US and moved here before they were 10. It was odd and required one of our players to produce grade school report cards.
I believe GA soccer is lax with them because of KSA's national success. On another note what happened to Jerry Desdunes from that team with Deedson? Jerry scored five goals in that championship game.
I heard KSA wanted to sell him oversees like Deedson for a fee of $50K but Jerry wouldn't get any of that money so the player left the club. I saw him practicing and playing pickup last year with my son's 07 team and the kids loved him.
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Post by bogan on Dec 8, 2020 14:23:41 GMT -5
Well, if that particular player played in other games, I know it would be pretty easy to DQ them from other games as many were recorded...ours was.
I wonder if GA soccer cares or will inquire? Or if they just want to move on?
I wonder if they will double check others at KSA now?
I know of several paying parents looking to bolt right now...
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Post by Soccerhouse on Dec 8, 2020 14:25:46 GMT -5
Yea, never understood why GA soccer and then affinity system never required birth certificate certification. I personally not a big fan of birth certificates being tossed around these days, and maybe they were always concerned about the security of these files. US club soccer requires and DA did as well. (DA took it a step further and required international clearance for foreign born players).
either way -- if a player doesn't have a birth certificate or proof of age, they should take the steps necessary to get a formal certified document explaining why an formal giving them an age verification? Do schools not require any proof of age or other documents stating a person's age?
Hum, intrigued on Jerry, will need to do some searching.
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Post by soccerspin on Dec 8, 2020 14:27:38 GMT -5
One of the main differences I experienced between Ga Soccer registration and US Club registration is that with the former, it is your club who’s entering in the dob etc based on what they’ve requested of the player (birth certificate, honor system, etc), whereas with US Club the onus is on the player’s family to upload the appropriate documentation (as noted previously, passport, etc) for US Club approval. Obviously the US Club system is much harder to take advantage of.
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Post by bogan on Dec 8, 2020 14:33:07 GMT -5
I would note though that it is getting easier for documents to be altered/ forged.
A buddy of mine works for the DHS and has been intercepting hundreds of Chinese made Georgia drivers licenses-they are perfect forgeries made with the same equipment and materials that the state of Georgia uses.
(Students are ordering them to get into bars).
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Post by Keeper on Dec 8, 2020 14:36:20 GMT -5
Yea, never understood why GA soccer and then affinity system never required birth certificate certification. I personally not a big fan of birth certificates being tossed around these days, and maybe they were always concerned about the security of these files. US club soccer requires and DA did as well. (DA took it a step further and required international clearance for foreign born players). either way -- if a player doesn't have a birth certificate or proof of age, they should take the steps necessary to get a formal certified document explaining why an formal giving them an age verification? Do schools not require any proof of age or other documents stating a person's age? Hum, intrigued on Jerry, will need to do some searching. There’s definitely a liability issue with birth certificates and Gasoccer. I know we got to the point where TMs were told not even bring them to games anymore, just the Medical release forms in case they were lost or stolen. Also I believe public schools can’t turn any child away even if they don’t have legal documents. That’s one of those things that even if a kid was brought into the country illegally they still have the right to an education. (Which is the way it should be, they’re just kids). |
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Post by Keeper on Dec 8, 2020 14:38:28 GMT -5
I would note though that it is getting easier for documents to be altered/ forged. A buddy of mine works for the DHS and has been intercepting hundreds of Chinese made Georgia drivers licenses-they are perfect forgeries made with the same equipment and materials that the state of Georgia uses. (Students are ordering them to get into bars). Just think how much easier and cheaper it would be if we just lowered the drinking age back to 18. Oh the good old days.... |
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Post by bogan on Dec 8, 2020 14:41:05 GMT -5
Yea, never understood why GA soccer and then affinity system never required birth certificate certification. I personally not a big fan of birth certificates being tossed around these days, and maybe they were always concerned about the security of these files. US club soccer requires and DA did as well. (DA took it a step further and required international clearance for foreign born players). either way -- if a player doesn't have a birth certificate or proof of age, they should take the steps necessary to get a formal certified document explaining why an formal giving them an age verification? Do schools not require any proof of age or other documents stating a person's age? Hum, intrigued on Jerry, will need to do some searching. There’s definitely a liability issue with birth certificates and Gasoccer. I know we got to the point where TMs were told not even bring them to games anymore, just the Medical release forms in case they were lost or stolen. Also I believe public schools can’t turn any child away even if they don’t have legal documents. That’s one of those things that even if a kid was brought into the country illegally they still have the right to an education. (Which is the way it should be, they’re just kids). That is correct- they take the parents word for their age. There is also difference in how some cultures view age-when they are born they are 9 months old, etc. I taught school I’m a previous lifetime-had an African student and they used moon phases to estimate age. We guessed about how old he was. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Dec 8, 2020 14:45:28 GMT -5
At some point and I think this is the take home of this thread, a coach and club need to be held accountable -- GA soccer apparently has zero accountability.
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Post by bogan on Dec 8, 2020 14:54:31 GMT -5
At some point and I think this is the take home of this thread, a coach and club need to be held accountable -- GA soccer apparently has zero accountability. Yep-at GA soccer it’s SSDD. |
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Post by soccerloafer on Dec 8, 2020 16:25:16 GMT -5
I would note though that it is getting easier for documents to be altered/ forged. A buddy of mine works for the DHS and has been intercepting hundreds of Chinese made Georgia drivers licenses-they are perfect forgeries made with the same equipment and materials that the state of Georgia uses. (Students are ordering them to get into bars). 3 for $50. Upload picture online, pay with Venmo or Paypal. Or that's what I heard from a neighbor's uncle's dad's sister's friend. |
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Post by soccerloafer on Dec 8, 2020 16:27:07 GMT -5
There’s definitely a liability issue with birth certificates and Gasoccer. I know we got to the point where TMs were told not even bring them to games anymore, just the Medical release forms in case they were lost or stolen. Also I believe public schools can’t turn any child away even if they don’t have legal documents. That’s one of those things that even if a kid was brought into the country illegally they still have the right to an education. (Which is the way it should be, they’re just kids). That is correct- they take the parents word for their age. There is also difference in how some cultures view age-when they are born they are 9 months old, etc. I taught school I’m a previous lifetime-had an African student and they used moon phases to estimate age. We guessed about how old he was. Had some friends adopt a brother and sister from Ghana. Within a year or two, it was obvious the boy was several years older than stated. Clearly not his fault, he was (and is) a great kid, just shows that age is a moving target in certain situations. |
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Post by soccerballz on Dec 8, 2020 16:32:47 GMT -5
KSA is entered into the ATL UTD Youth Cup. Wonder if anyone would care to check ages for that tourney.
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Post by bogan on Dec 8, 2020 16:36:58 GMT -5
I would note though that it is getting easier for documents to be altered/ forged. A buddy of mine works for the DHS and has been intercepting hundreds of Chinese made Georgia drivers licenses-they are perfect forgeries made with the same equipment and materials that the state of Georgia uses. (Students are ordering them to get into bars). 3 for $50. Upload picture online, pay with Venmo or Paypal. Or that's what I heard from a neighbor's uncle's dad's sister's friend. 🤣🤣🤣 |
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Post by rifle on Dec 8, 2020 18:10:17 GMT -5
I would note though that it is getting easier for documents to be altered/ forged. A buddy of mine works for the DHS and has been intercepting hundreds of Chinese made Georgia drivers licenses-they are perfect forgeries made with the same equipment and materials that the state of Georgia uses. (Students are ordering them to get into bars). I am shocked. I also have been told the barcode on the back works for age validation... so they’re quite good copies. I’m sure a lot of middle schoolers used them to vote. 😉 |
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Post by bogan on Dec 8, 2020 18:17:06 GMT -5
I would note though that it is getting easier for documents to be altered/ forged. A buddy of mine works for the DHS and has been intercepting hundreds of Chinese made Georgia drivers licenses-they are perfect forgeries made with the same equipment and materials that the state of Georgia uses. (Students are ordering them to get into bars). I am shocked. I also have been told the barcode on the back works for age validation... so they’re quite good copies. I’m sure a lot of middle schoolers used them to vote. 😉 Well, if the dead can vote, why not middle schoolers🤣 |
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Post by jesuslovesjustice on Dec 9, 2020 8:28:36 GMT -5
Anyone know why? This is pure evil on the part of Georgia Soccer and the truth will come out. If an organization that is supposed to serve state clubs can work behind the scenes with another club to pull dirt on a minor and after the boy's official documentation is shown, it is rejected asking for another, what does that tell you? Justice will be served this time. It was served when the remaining age groups 02,03,04,and 05 all won their divisions. Discrimination in our society cannot be tolerated and I ask everyone on this forum to please reserve judgement on Bruno. He has been a class act working with kids that no one would invest time in. The difficulties he goes through to serve these kids, no one would put up with. He adheres to the age identification rules of US Youth Soccer, Georgia soccer, using Green Card for those who have them or birth certificates when they are available. If a Green Card is not honored as an official documentation for identifying a player's age, what else. Like someone says, "God don't like ugly", Justice will be served. |
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Post by jesuslovesjustice on Dec 9, 2020 8:30:18 GMT -5
Yes, or green cards, drivers license and passports work too. But yes it has to be a legal document and uploaded and approved prior to a player being out on the roster/player pass to print. Unlike Ga Soccer which just needs a name, dob and address to be registered. Georgia Soccer did not honor a valid Green Card. As info, from GA soccer website: Proof of age shall consist of a birth certificate, a Uniformed Services Identification and Privilege Card (DD Form 1173), a birth registration issued by an appropriate government agency, or board of health records, a passport, an alien registration card issued by the United States Government, a certificate issued by the Immigration and Naturalization Service attesting to age, a current driver’s license, an unexpired federal, state, or local government identification card or a certification of a United States citizen born abroad issued by the appropriate government agency. Hospital, baptismal, or religious certificates will not be accepted. See Rule 170.2c for details. Any team playing a player who is over-age shall forfeit the game(s) in which that player takes part. A player may play in their proper age group, or in an older age group. A player may NOT play in a younger age group. For regular-season play, once rostered to a team, a player is considered to be the age of that team. |
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Post by jesuslovesjustice on Dec 9, 2020 8:31:16 GMT -5
This is pure evil on the part of Georgia Soccer and the truth will come out. If an organization that is supposed to serve state clubs can work behind the scenes with another club to pull dirt on a minor and after the boy's official documentation is shown, it is rejected asking for another, what does that tell you? Justice will be served this time. It was served when the remaining age groups 02,03,04,and 05 all won their divisions. Discrimination in our society cannot be tolerated and I ask everyone on this forum to please reserve judgement on Bruno. He has been a class act working with kids that no one would invest time in. The difficulties he goes through to serve these kids, no one would put up with. He adheres to the age identification rules of US Youth Soccer, Georgia soccer, using Green Card for those who have them or birth certificates when they are available. If a Green Card is not honored as an official documentation for identifying a player's age, what else. Like someone says, "God don't like ugly", Justice will be served.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Dec 9, 2020 8:50:25 GMT -5
This is pure evil on the part of Georgia Soccer and the truth will come out. If an organization that is supposed to serve state clubs can work behind the scenes with another club to pull dirt on a minor and after the boy's official documentation is shown, it is rejected asking for another, what does that tell you? Justice will be served this time. It was served when the remaining age groups 02,03,04,and 05 all won their divisions. Discrimination in our society cannot be tolerated and I ask everyone on this forum to please reserve judgement on Bruno. He has been a class act working with kids that no one would invest time in. The difficulties he goes through to serve these kids, no one would put up with. He adheres to the age identification rules of US Youth Soccer, Georgia soccer, using Green Card for those who have them or birth certificates when they are available. If a Green Card is not honored as an official documentation for identifying a player's age, what else. Like someone says, "God don't like ugly", Justice will be served. From what I have heard on this forum the majority of the people only blame Bruno for not putting someone else in charge of gathering and authenticating the documents. Most strongly believe Bruno is a great coach and most admire his willingness to take on the kids no one else would (as many have put it). What I have seen is that most really good coaches are really bad at the administrative side of running a business. He is not alone in this. He should reach out and find a person to help him. All kids deserve an opportunity to improve themselves whether it is in school or soccer or some other skill. He is doing an admirable job of helping them with soccer, but it will hang over the program if there are continued issues with proof of age. This is not the first time it has been suspected that an overage player was fielded. |
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Dec 9, 2020 8:50:54 GMT -5
This is pure evil on the part of Georgia Soccer and the truth will come out. If an organization that is supposed to serve state clubs can work behind the scenes with another club to pull dirt on a minor and after the boy's official documentation is shown, it is rejected asking for another, what does that tell you? Justice will be served this time. It was served when the remaining age groups 02,03,04,and 05 all won their divisions. Discrimination in our society cannot be tolerated and I ask everyone on this forum to please reserve judgement on Bruno. He has been a class act working with kids that no one would invest time in. The difficulties he goes through to serve these kids, no one would put up with. He adheres to the age identification rules of US Youth Soccer, Georgia soccer, using Green Card for those who have them or birth certificates when they are available. If a Green Card is not honored as an official documentation for identifying a player's age, what else. Like someone says, "God don't like ugly", Justice will be served. I can't speak for everyone else, but for me, it is well known what Bruno is and has been trying to do at KSA. He fills the void that many of these young kids would normally fall through. With a prayer, some spit & glue, he's able to give them a home and is still able to field competitive teams with an occasional pro signing. I don't think that is in question, but when the same infractions come up again and again and again, so much so most roll their eyes when they hear it occurring AGAIN you then have to question things since it takes away from the good work and goals he's trying to accomplish. Again, I am not personally familiar with what occurred in this scenario, but folks don't like the perception of unfairness or cheating. Sadly, that resonates with folks a lot more viscerally than all the good he's trying to do... |
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Post by soccerloafer on Dec 9, 2020 9:00:21 GMT -5
I would note though that it is getting easier for documents to be altered/ forged. A buddy of mine works for the DHS and has been intercepting hundreds of Chinese made Georgia drivers licenses-they are perfect forgeries made with the same equipment and materials that the state of Georgia uses. (Students are ordering them to get into bars). I am shocked. I also have been told the barcode on the back works for age validation... so they’re quite good copies. I’m sure a lot of middle schoolers used them to vote. 😉 They are exact working copies of GA DLs - front and back - with only the DOB changed. Mailed directly from China to the address of your choice. Think what they can do with a simple paper ballot... |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Dec 9, 2020 9:06:07 GMT -5
Yea --- and most kids get their name's and addresses on them, if you use a fake name there is the concern of identity theft.... also --- you don't even have to get these from china anymore...... these are not hard to come by locally now..... Interesting pdf on birth certificate fraud -- there are over 14,000 different versions of birth certificates in circulation. oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-07-99-00570.pdf |
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Post by bogan on Dec 9, 2020 9:06:54 GMT -5
I am shocked. I also have been told the barcode on the back works for age validation... so they’re quite good copies. I’m sure a lot of middle schoolers used them to vote. 😉 They are exact working copies of GA DLs - front and back - with only the DOB changed. Mailed directly from China to the address of your choice. Think what they can do with a simple paper ballot... Bruno should gets all of his 06 players one. 🤔 (I kid.😬) |
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