|
|
Post by bogan on Jan 14, 2021 19:23:19 GMT -5
From Arsene Wenger: “What’s still missing [in the US], and this is a shortcoming, is the fact that the teaching of the sport is half yearly...a seven year old who plays for six months won’t have the same opportunities as a European child who plays for ten or eleven...football is a technical sport, and acquiring of that technique happens between seven and twelve...The quality of training at that age is crucial...America ought to focus on that. Centers of excellence are required.”
“...As long as sport, and learning about sport, relies entirely on schools, soccer in the US will not be sufficiently competitive.”
Thoughts?
|
|
|
|
Post by soccerparentx on Jan 14, 2021 23:13:59 GMT -5
Seems to be a fairly accurate statement. Look at how the MLS academies are now cranking out talent that is good enough to play in the big leagues. Wouldn't happen if they didn't specialize all year round. I would consider those a proxy for "centers of excellence".
|
|
|
|
Post by bogan on Jan 15, 2021 6:11:47 GMT -5
Seems to be a fairly accurate statement. Look at how the MLS academies are now cranking out talent that is good enough to play in the big leagues. Wouldn't happen if they didn't specialize all year round. I would consider those a proxy for "centers of excellence". I think so-the challenge for the US has always been that it is so vast. Getting a lot of talent into a small area is difficult. With the MLS academies and now USL academies, I think we are getting closer to realizing that goal. |
|
|
|
Post by atlfutboldad on Jan 15, 2021 10:43:00 GMT -5
Doesn't this contradict the idea that kids should be playing other sports?
|
|
|
|
Post by bogan on Jan 15, 2021 10:49:46 GMT -5
Doesn't this contradict the idea that kids should be playing other sports? In Wengers view, yes. |
|
|
|
Post by atlfutboldad on Jan 15, 2021 11:31:24 GMT -5
I agree with him. Soccer is a tactically cerebral sport, especially given the large pitch and difference in responsibilities at each position. But individually, a kid cannot master the skills in a year unless they're doing it hours a day every day. Hand dexterity and foot dexterity are totally different skill trees.
That said, a generally good athlete can come in and play keeper relatively quickly, especially if they play keeper in another sport (hockey, lacrosse, handball, etc). Pure athleticism goes a long way at keeper.
|
|
|
|
Post by olderthandirt on Jan 15, 2021 11:51:23 GMT -5
That said, a generally good athlete can come in and play keeper relatively quickly, especially if they play keeper in another sport (hockey, lacrosse, handball, etc). Pure athleticism goes a long way at keeper.
Ok, if you say so, but I know quite a few keepers who might disagree with you.
|
|
|
|
Post by 04gparent on Jan 15, 2021 12:11:30 GMT -5
Great discussion. We can all think of good examples on both sides, but in my experience with girls, you can easily tell the foot skill quality of players who only play 5 or 6 months and those who played/trained for 10 months. Yes, athleticism can make up this gap in certain examples and positions. In my opinion, the holy grail in soccer is still this:
athleticism + foot skills + tactical awareness = great player
|
|
|
|
Post by 04gparent on Jan 15, 2021 12:13:40 GMT -5
Seems to be a fairly accurate statement. Look at how the MLS academies are now cranking out talent that is good enough to play in the big leagues. Wouldn't happen if they didn't specialize all year round. I would consider those a proxy for "centers of excellence". I think so-the challenge for the US has always been that it is so vast. Getting a lot of talent into a small area is difficult. With the MLS academies and now USL academies, I think we are getting closer to realizing that goal. Umm. The whole original point of the now defunct boys dev academy was to create an environment where boys/girls could train for 10 months. It will be interesting to see who still offers this type of training in the vast gap left by the dissolving DA. |
|
|
|
Post by atlfutboldad on Jan 15, 2021 12:45:42 GMT -5
If you count (for instance) ECNL, and the player plays for a decent HS coach, training is approx 10 months. If they additionally play for a cup in the summer, its 11 months.
|
|
|
|
Post by bogan on Jan 15, 2021 12:55:53 GMT -5
I think so-the challenge for the US has always been that it is so vast. Getting a lot of talent into a small area is difficult. With the MLS academies and now USL academies, I think we are getting closer to realizing that goal. Umm. The whole original point of the now defunct boys dev academy was to create an environment where boys/girls could train for 10 months. It will be interesting to see who still offers this type of training in the vast gap left by the dissolving DA. I think it will be up to the clubs (MLS/USL). Doesn’t ECNL play 10 months or isn’t that the goal now? |
|
|
|
Post by atlutd17 on Jan 15, 2021 21:04:04 GMT -5
What about the level of club vs HS soccer competition and training for 15 year olds and up?
Those two combined are about 9-10 months commitment so maybe is not so much the quantity, but rather the quality of one or the other (or in some cases both.
|
|
|
|
Post by bogan on Jan 15, 2021 22:42:02 GMT -5
What about the level of club vs HS soccer competition and training for 15 year olds and up? Those two combined are about 9-10 months commitment so maybe is not so much the quantity, but rather the quality of one or the other (or in some cases both. Good question. Wenger specifically mentioned ages 7-12 ...he feels we (US) are behind by the time the player gets into their teenage years. However, US National Team results seem to suggest the gap happens at the college years-we stop developing. As for high school-many of the club coaches that I have spoken with don’t like high school soccer. Reasons vary, but lack of development would rank high on the list. Over conditioning/injuries would be high up as well. There are some good high school coaches out there...unfortunately, there are more uneducated ones-especially outside of the Atlanta area. |
|
|
|
Post by oraclesfriend on Jan 16, 2021 8:45:26 GMT -5
What about the level of club vs HS soccer competition and training for 15 year olds and up? Those two combined are about 9-10 months commitment so maybe is not so much the quantity, but rather the quality of one or the other (or in some cases both. Good question. Wenger specifically mentioned ages 7-12 ...he feels we (US) are behind by the time the player gets into their teenage years. However, US National Team results seem to suggest the gap happens at the college years-we stop developing. As for high school-many of the club coaches that I have spoken with don’t like high school soccer. Reasons vary, but lack of development would rank high on the list. Over conditioning/injuries would be high up as well. There are some good high school coaches out there...unfortunately, there are more uneducated ones-especially outside of the Atlanta area. Agreed with both issues. As for the young kids and technical skills though I have to agree with Wenger that they need to work on that year round. That does not mean that they have to play soccer year round. They could just do technical skills training while playing a different sport. I have seen how other sports help train overall athleticism. I think that is helpful. For the lack of development in college (which seems to be a bigger issue on the boys/men's side for a variety of reasons) that is likely in part because they only play for 3-4 months. As for high school coaches I find Atlanta parents' awareness of this issue odd. It is nearly like they have blinders on. Many top players go to many of the same schools. Lambert has had a bunch in the public school sector (has a coach that coached at UFA for a while who is very good). The Marist team will be fantastic this year. Parents of these kids think high school soccer is great!! But some of the schools in lower socioeconomic areas have neither the coaches nor the athletes. Some schools outside of the most populated areas also don't have good coaches and have limited numbers of club players on their rosters let alone high level club players. Don't just view things through your bubble. Look at the big picture! I know of two kids on my older kid's team that won't play high school soccer this spring. They are running track because they had bad experiences with the high school team's coaches or quality of the players and felt it sent them backwards or were so frustrated that they couldn't bare to suffer through another season like that. Just saying. |
|
|
|
Post by mistergrinch on Jan 19, 2021 10:36:35 GMT -5
Agreed. The thing about claiming that club+HS makes for a full year of training is the surrounding talent.
In club play - particularly on higher level teams - you are playing with and against players of your skill level. You push each other and you get better.
In HS play, there may be a handful of quality players.. maybe even top-level players. Then some second/third team quality players.. then some who played rec one time in fifth grade. Like oracle said - maybe at Lambert or Marist you get a whole squad of players that are at least second team players.. but most HS don't have that. When you watch most HS games you can pick the club players out quite easily.. the team with more club players wins.
Then.. there's coaching. LOTS of boom ball in HS. 'Kick it long... to katie.. she's fast!' Great strategy.
|
|
|
|
Post by baller84 on Jan 29, 2021 16:58:08 GMT -5
Outside its social aspect, HS Soccer is not the best place for player development to the next level, for the very same reasons most of us take our kids to better teams for club soccer. Better teammates, better competition.
Playing/training lower level daily holds them back. Very few HS are good enough to be exceptions and even then they're likely forced to a weak region schedule. If HS coaches understood all that and what's best for the players, they would cut them some slack and allow them not only to prioritize club but control the amount of rest they need.
Better players love to play with better players and must play against better players. MLS aside, it's why leagues like ECNL or NL exist. HS Soccer doesn't provide that level of competition for the most part whether training or games. In a perfect world I would rather have my kid play club 9-10 months a year, but also be able to play for his HS and with his friends when available because he loves it in a different way. But HS soccer should not be a priority.
|
|
