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Post by interestedspectator on Jan 25, 2021 11:12:37 GMT -5
How did the SCCL Cup go over the last couple of weekends?
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jan 25, 2021 11:26:19 GMT -5
Everything other than temperature was good. Morning games were brutal.
Also, kudos to SCCL for creating REALLY NICE medals. Big, solid, quality.
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SCCL Cup
Jan 26, 2021 8:43:21 GMT -5
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Post by Goalkeeper Dad on Jan 26, 2021 8:43:21 GMT -5
Everything other than temperature was good. Morning games were brutal. Also, kudos to SCCL for creating REALLY NICE medals. Big, solid, quality. Agreed week 1 games were dreadfully cold. If you made it to week 2 the weather was nice. Saw some really good games on Sunday. 2 of the games I watched went to OT and one was decided by PK. 2 of the free kicks were taken by the goalkeepers. Hated to see both of those teams lose they played their hearts out and they both deserved to win |
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Post by greenmonkey on Jan 27, 2021 18:15:57 GMT -5
Truly the only complaint was the amount of dual rostered players who played ECNL AND SCCL during the season and the tournament. It is a hard line to draw. If you are not a strong ECNL player YES you certainly deserve playing time on the next level lower team and so on and so on down the line. And technically there are no rules that anyone can find that prohibit playing on both teams. And it is always great to play competition AT AND ABOVE your current level of play. But that said ... It is unfortunate when a team/club without access to a pool of "bubble" dual rostered ECNL players loses to the team that brings them in just for the tournament. Not a new complaint. Happens all the time at every level, in every league, in every state. It is the ultimate challenge to develop the bubble players on either end of the team. There are SCCL Club bubble players that could benefit from increased playing time at SCCL p-1 AND there are SCCL p1/p2/p3 players who if they were at a different club or different location could grow and develop more by being on the SCCL Club team. Likewise there are plenty of SCCL Club players who would benefit from spending some training time with ECNL teams ... etc etc etc. But then again maybe that does assume player development is a Club priority?!
Has anyone seen or heard of a player dual rostering the loophole between USClub and USYS yet? Say playing on an NL team and an NPL team?
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SCCL Cup
Jan 27, 2021 19:16:46 GMT -5
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jan 27, 2021 19:16:46 GMT -5
Was this boys or girls? What age group? I heard that the team our girls played in the final had an ECNL bench player playing with them. I don't think it happened during the regupar season. Seems more likely on the boys side.
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Post by kidsocceruber on Jan 27, 2021 19:47:18 GMT -5
Definitely happened on the girls side, and since they're different leagues there's technically nothing stopping them. Happened in SCCL league play also this season, with ECNL/NPL players on some teams playing "down" on lower teams in their club, as I assume it does every season. Giving the benefit of the doubt, injuries could have played into the need as well, but all things being equal you'd like to see them call "up" players not bring "down" players.
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SCCL Cup
Jan 27, 2021 20:20:26 GMT -5
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Post by soccerspin on Jan 27, 2021 20:20:26 GMT -5
And definitely happened on the boys side during regular season SCCL play. In one example, of the three who played down, we saw them later play against AU on their ECNL team - one was a starter who played the entire game, another was a starter who played approx 80% of the game, and the third one subbed in and played 50% of the game. Not exactly bubble players needing game time...
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SCCL Cup
Jan 27, 2021 22:44:40 GMT -5
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Post by Keeper on Jan 27, 2021 22:44:40 GMT -5
So Tophat putting in an entire DPL Team wasn’t right? Was actually surprised more NPL and other USClub teams didn’t signup. Wonder if next year we will see CESA ECRL or other ECRL teams register.
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SCCL Cup
Jan 28, 2021 7:19:41 GMT -5
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jan 28, 2021 7:19:41 GMT -5
So Tophat putting in an entire DPL Team wasn’t right? Was actually surprised more NPL and other USClub teams didn’t signup. Wonder if next year we will see CESA ECRL or other ECRL teams register. What is wrong with Tophat putting in DPL teams? It was open to high level teams. Two years ago ECNL teams played in a few age groups. At least you know what you are getting when an entire team is in. Besides that is Tophat's 3rd team and that aligns with some of the other clubs. It isn't like they sent GA Gold teams. I agree that it would be nice to get outside of the area clubs coming in to mix it up more. |
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Post by soccernoleuk on Jan 28, 2021 7:21:44 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, are you certain all these ECNL players are actually ECNL players, and how do you know? Obviously if you saw them play in an ECNL game that is one thing. Is some of this based on the player having an ECNL patch on their jersey? If so, I would think it is possible the club might be in their second year of the uniform cycle and the player was an ECNL player last year.
Also, with COVID this year, I have seen plenty of occasions where rostered SCCL players are being called up to ECNL teams to fill in because the ECNL team is short of players. I heard one of the ECNL teams at our club brought 4 SCCL players & a younger ECNL player with them to Florida in January because they wouldn't have been able to field a team otherwise.
Of course there are clubs/teams that take advantage of using top team players on lower teams, just to try and win a tournament. However, I do think it is a little more complicated than it appears sometimes.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jan 28, 2021 10:36:37 GMT -5
DPL are 3rd teams and IMO they're equivalent to good NPL/SCCL teams. A year ago they WERE SCCL teams, and they won around around 2 of the 6 SCCL brackets (the first year they won 4 I believe). As I understand it, DPL bracket winners get an automatic bid to US Club Nationals also.
Its not like the 2 that won SCCL Cup really dominated either, in group play the 04's received a forfeit, a tie (against a lower bracket SCCL team) and a strong 1-point win over regular-season bracket winner to advance to semis, and they won the final 2 games by a goal also. The 02's went 1-1-1 in group play and then finished out the 2nd weekend pretty strong. The point is they shouldn't be viewed any differently than SCCL/NPL teams (2nd tier).
I'm actually surprised they didn't enter more/all of them, NPL also. If you didn't finish top of your bracket SCCL, NPL or DPL you should probably be playing in SCCL Cup. Hopefully next year they will be able to move it up into November/December and get more participation. They may have to step up the prize though, the pay-in to US Club regionals which anyone can apply to isn't much incentive to keep the teams together IMO.
All this said, participation was better than State Cup. On the boys side of State Cup, KSA won 4/5 brackets and there was some suggestion of impropriety there. How long does the rest of GA Soccer put up with that?
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SCCL Cup
Jan 28, 2021 10:52:51 GMT -5
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Post by Goalkeeper Dad on Jan 28, 2021 10:52:51 GMT -5
DPL are 3rd teams and IMO they're equivalent to good NPL/SCCL teams. A year ago they WERE SCCL teams, and they won around around 2 of the 6 SCCL brackets (the first year they won 4 I believe). As I understand it, DPL bracket winners get an automatic bid to US Club Nationals also. Its not like the 2 that won SCCL Cup really dominated either, in group play the 04's received a forfeit, a tie (against a lower bracket SCCL team) and a strong 1-point win over regular-season bracket winner to advance to semis, and they won the final 2 games by a goal also. The 02's went 1-1-1 in group play and then finished out the 2nd weekend pretty strong. The point is they shouldn't be viewed any differently than SCCL/NPL teams (2nd tier). I'm actually surprised they didn't enter more/all of them, NPL also. If you didn't finish top of your bracket SCCL, NPL or DPL you should probably be playing in SCCL Cup. Hopefully next year they will be able to move it up into November/December and get more participation. They may have to step up the prize though, the pay-in to US Club regionals which anyone can apply to isn't much incentive to keep the teams together IMO. All this said, participation was better than State Cup. On the boys side of State Cup, KSA won 4/5 brackets and there was some suggestion of impropriety there. How long does the rest of GA Soccer put up with that? Somebody who know what they are talking about. In regards to why there wasn't more DPL teams. I believe it is because they had already qualified. The 04/and 02 where there because they are coached by the same man and the 02 played so they could qualify. |
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SCCL Cup
Jan 28, 2021 15:11:11 GMT -5
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Post by oldgasoccer on Jan 28, 2021 15:11:11 GMT -5
The tophat 07 DPL team played up into the 06 age group. Lost 0-1 to in the semifinals to 06 Concorde SCCL that supposedly had some ECNL players.
Personally I think it is fine if ECNL players came down. People should want to go against the best competition you can. That is how you get better. Some of those girls might get limited playing time at ECNL.
And kudos to the Tophat 07 DPL girls playing up an age group and seeking competition instead of trophies.
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Post by DunwoodySoccerDad on Jan 28, 2021 16:00:05 GMT -5
The tophat 07 DPL team played up into the 06 age group. Lost 0-1 to in the semifinals to 06 Concorde SCCL that supposedly had some ECNL players. Personally I think it is fine if ECNL players came down. People should want to go against the best competition you can. That is how you get better. Some of those girls might get limited playing time at ECNL. And kudos to the Tophat 07 DPL girls playing up an age group and seeking competition instead of trophies. They had one ECNL player, not "some". And she is a borderline ECNL player who was on that SCCL team last year. That's from a dad on the team. |
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SCCL Cup
Jan 28, 2021 16:19:58 GMT -5
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Post by oldgasoccer on Jan 28, 2021 16:19:58 GMT -5
So that is why I said "supposedly". I think what both teams did is good for player development. Not taking sides.
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SCCL Cup
Jan 28, 2021 17:02:17 GMT -5
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Post by soccerspin on Jan 28, 2021 17:02:17 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, are you certain all these ECNL players are actually ECNL players, and how do you know? Obviously if you saw them play in an ECNL game that is one thing. Is some of this based on the player having an ECNL patch on their jersey? If so, I would think it is possible the club might be in their second year of the uniform cycle and the player was an ECNL player last year. Also, with COVID this year, I have seen plenty of occasions where rostered SCCL players are being called up to ECNL teams to fill in because the ECNL team is short of players. I heard one of the ECNL teams at our club brought 4 SCCL players & a younger ECNL player with them to Florida in January because they wouldn't have been able to field a team otherwise. Of course there are clubs/teams that take advantage of using top team players on lower teams, just to try and win a tournament. However, I do think it is a little more complicated than it appears sometimes. This is easy enough to check since ECNL lists their teams (names and pics) on their website. The ones I noted earlier are on the current 18 man team. |
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SCCL Cup
Jan 28, 2021 17:54:47 GMT -5
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jan 28, 2021 17:54:47 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, are you certain all these ECNL players are actually ECNL players, and how do you know? Obviously if you saw them play in an ECNL game that is one thing. Is some of this based on the player having an ECNL patch on their jersey? If so, I would think it is possible the club might be in their second year of the uniform cycle and the player was an ECNL player last year. Also, with COVID this year, I have seen plenty of occasions where rostered SCCL players are being called up to ECNL teams to fill in because the ECNL team is short of players. I heard one of the ECNL teams at our club brought 4 SCCL players & a younger ECNL player with them to Florida in January because they wouldn't have been able to field a team otherwise. Of course there are clubs/teams that take advantage of using top team players on lower teams, just to try and win a tournament. However, I do think it is a little more complicated than it appears sometimes. This is easy enough to check since ECNL lists their teams (names and pics) on their website. The ones I noted earlier are on the current 18 man team. I am aware of several players who were rostered on SCCL but occasionally played up to ECNL that are on the ECNL website with pics and names so I think that is not reliable |
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SCCL Cup
Jan 28, 2021 19:06:00 GMT -5
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Post by soccerspin on Jan 28, 2021 19:06:00 GMT -5
This is easy enough to check since ECNL lists their teams (names and pics) on their website. The ones I noted earlier are on the current 18 man team. I am aware of several players who were rostered on SCCL but occasionally played up to ECNL that are on the ECNL website with pics and names so I think that is not reliable Okay but it is one avenue which provides some info. In our case we also watched one of their ECNL games (as noted above - not bubble players) so not much doubt as to their impact on the SCCL games they played in. |
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SCCL Cup
Jan 28, 2021 19:27:41 GMT -5
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Post by ball2futbol on Jan 28, 2021 19:27:41 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, are you certain all these ECNL players are actually ECNL players, and how do you know? Obviously if you saw them play in an ECNL game that is one thing. Is some of this based on the player having an ECNL patch on their jersey? If so, I would think it is possible the club might be in their second year of the uniform cycle and the player was an ECNL player last year. Also, with COVID this year, I have seen plenty of occasions where rostered SCCL players are being called up to ECNL teams to fill in because the ECNL team is short of players. I heard one of the ECNL teams at our club brought 4 SCCL players & a younger ECNL player with them to Florida in January because they wouldn't have been able to field a team otherwise. Of course there are clubs/teams that take advantage of using top team players on lower teams, just to try and win a tournament. However, I do think it is a little more complicated than it appears sometimes. This is easy enough to check since ECNL lists their teams (names and pics) on their website. The ones I noted earlier are on the current 18 man team. Those ECNL rosters aren’t as accurate as you’d think and that one definitely isn’t. |
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SCCL Cup
Jan 28, 2021 22:04:20 GMT -5
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Post by soccerspin on Jan 28, 2021 22:04:20 GMT -5
This is easy enough to check since ECNL lists their teams (names and pics) on their website. The ones I noted earlier are on the current 18 man team. Those ECNL rosters aren’t as accurate as you’d think and that one definitely isn’t. We saw these same players play in an ECNL game as noted earlier with significant playing time. In this particular case, the roster listed online is accurate. Maybe others are not. I cannot speak to anything other than the one team I saw and those players we played against in SCCL during the fall season. Just relaying what was experienced in this one instance. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jan 28, 2021 22:19:08 GMT -5
Those ECNL rosters aren’t as accurate as you’d think and that one definitely isn’t. We saw these same players play in an ECNL game as noted earlier with significant playing time. In this particular case, the roster listed online is accurate. Maybe others are not. I cannot speak to anything other than the one team I saw and those players we played against in SCCL during the fall season. Just relaying what was experienced in this one instance. No problem that you are commenting on what you saw or dealt with in your situation. I just don't want people to think that those ECNL rosters mean that all of the kids on one are full time ECNL players because they often are not. Every situation is different. Sometimes they are 100% accurate. Other times I am aware of 25% of the rosters being part time players that are full time on lower teams. Each team is different even within a club |
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SCCL Cup
Jan 29, 2021 6:36:13 GMT -5
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Post by footyfan on Jan 29, 2021 6:36:13 GMT -5
What do the kids/parents that get replaced by "higher league" players think? I'd be pretty mad. That is one reason parents/kids leave for other clubs. Good on them for doing so.
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Post by soccernoleuk on Jan 29, 2021 7:16:23 GMT -5
What do the kids/parents that get replaced by "higher league" players think? I'd be pretty mad. That is one reason parents/kids leave for other clubs. Good on them for doing so. I'm sure that depends on why they were replaced. - Were they injured? - Were they COVID quarantined? - Were they simply not available? If they were available and legitimately replaced, then I'm sure the parents were pissed off and will potentially look at other options for next year. The reason I asked above about how you know they are actually current ECNL players is because my daughter's SCCL team currently has 4 former ECNL players on the roster. They all have ECNL patches on their jerseys, so at a first glance you would think they came down to play on our team. In all actuality they have been SCCL players all year and only have the patches from last year. I'm not saying this is always the situation, but I'm thinking it happens more than people realize. |
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SCCL Cup
Jan 29, 2021 8:30:38 GMT -5
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Post by Goalkeeper Dad on Jan 29, 2021 8:30:38 GMT -5
My question is who does this bother the most. The parents or the players?
Granted everyone should follow the rules but my kid doesn't care what patch you have on your sleeve she wants to compete against everyone. She doesn't care if you have a DA/GA/ECNL ETC ETC ETC. You will have to beat her. She takes it as a sign of the other team being scared if they bring players down.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jan 29, 2021 9:30:59 GMT -5
If a player is an ECNL starter they shouldn't be playing down, period. That said, I think in the aforementioned player's case they didn't play down to unseat a player, but rather because players were unavailable for the tournament. Generally you should bring a player from a lower team (we did).
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Post by mightydawg on Jan 29, 2021 10:26:09 GMT -5
What do the kids/parents that get replaced by "higher league" players think? I'd be pretty mad. That is one reason parents/kids leave for other clubs. Good on them for doing so. I'm sure that depends on why they were replaced. - Were they injured? - Were they COVID quarantined? - Were they simply not available? If they were available and legitimately replaced, then I'm sure the parents were pissed off and will potentially look at other options for next year. The reason I asked above about how you know they are actually current ECNL players is because my daughter's SCCL team currently has 4 former ECNL players on the roster. They all have ECNL patches on their jerseys, so at a first glance you would think they came down to play on our team. In all actuality they have been SCCL players all year and only have the patches from last year. I'm not saying this is always the situation, but I'm thinking it happens more than people realize. Your kid must play at GSA because this would not apply to Concorde, UFA, or Atlanta Fire since those 3 clubs are in the first year of the uniform cycle. |
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SCCL Cup
Jan 29, 2021 11:18:59 GMT -5
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Post by Keeper on Jan 29, 2021 11:18:59 GMT -5
If a player is an ECNL starter they shouldn't be playing down, period. That said, I think in the aforementioned player's case they didn't play down to unseat a player, but rather because players were unavailable for the tournament. Generally you should bring a player from a lower team (we did). Why a starter? I know and seen plenty of ECNL teams that start weaker players and have the stronger players come off the bench due to the stupid subbing rules. As long as the tournament allows guest players like that cool, but not sure it should be called SCCL Cup if non-SCCL teams are allowed to join. Should really just call it USClub’s Georgia State Cup or Georgia Cup. |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Jan 29, 2021 14:41:00 GMT -5
By starter I mean primary player. If you're getting 60+ minutes a game, you probably shouldn't be playing down, at least during the regular season.
I like the naming idea: "SCCL Georgia Cup" -OR- "SCCL Georgia STATE Cup"
It gets the idea across that this is THE cup for the state of Georgia (run by SCCL). They need to encourage top teams (NL/ECNL) to play, but also not put the tournament during showcase weekends. US Club/ECNL/USYS need to come to consensus on cup weekends. I also think there needs to be a bigger reward for winning though.
I'm very curious if later this Spring any clubs will jump BACK to Georgia Soccer or if more clubs will throw their hat into the SCCL ring this spring. There's only 2 clubs I know of that are currently straddling the 2 leagues...CFC Red Star and LSA. Will be interesting to see how these clubs (and others) react to Piedmont Conference returning many of their teams back to the pool (only top 4 Piedmont teams are safe from relegation this year). I assume GA Soccer will push 5 teams for each Piedmont bracket in the summer. It seems Augusta Arsenal's return to GA Soccer for Piedmont spots was short-lived. I wonder if NL Piedmont is still considering the Sunshine Conference merger.
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