floyd
Jr. Academy
Posts: 18
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Post by floyd on Mar 1, 2021 15:53:49 GMT -5
Is it okay to ask a club to assess your kid’s level prior to the May tryouts? My kid is at a club now, but we may shop around in May. It would be good to know what level the club thinks my kid is at and their interest before the official tryouts. I assume it is not allowed and maybe would be considered tampering.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 1, 2021 15:59:52 GMT -5
You can ask your current club for an assessment. Hopefully they will be honest. It is hard to be certain though unless they are the best on their team/age group because people come and go during tryouts. A bunch of superstars could come in and change the whole picture.
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Post by DunwoodySoccerDad on Mar 1, 2021 16:41:03 GMT -5
Is it okay to ask a club to assess your kid’s level prior to the May tryouts? My kid is at a club now, but we may shop around in May. It would be good to know what level the club thinks my kid is at and their interest before the official tryouts. I assume it is not allowed and maybe would be considered tampering. If there's a club you're interested in, I'd contact them and ask that question. I know that as of May 1st, SCCL clubs can have "official" contact with a player from another club and it's not tampering. Now, whether they would fully assess your kid or not, I don't know. BTW, May 1st may be the official recruiting date for all clubs in Georgia, I'm not sure. I'd go watch practices and check out their games if you can. |
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Post by mightydawg on Mar 1, 2021 16:54:25 GMT -5
In my opinion, as a parent, you can reach out to a club any time you please. Clubs are a paid service provider. Just like AT&T cannot prevent you from calling Comcast or Verizon, a club cannot restrict you from talking to another club. I pay a club (alot of money) to train my kid and provide games for them to play in. Unless you are playing for free at Atlanta United or on a scholarship at club, the clubs do not have an ownership interest in my child. As long as I fulfill my financial obligation to the club, I can reach out to any club I want at any time.
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Post by soccernoleuk on Mar 1, 2021 17:40:03 GMT -5
In my opinion, as a parent, you can reach out to a club any time you please. Clubs are a paid service provider. Just like AT&T cannot prevent you from calling Comcast or Verizon, a club cannot restrict you from talking to another club. I pay a club (alot of money) to train my kid and provide games for them to play in. Unless you are playing for free at Atlanta United or on a scholarship at club, the clubs do not have an ownership interest in my child. As long as I fulfill my financial obligation to the club, I can reach out to any club I want at any time. I agree with this 100%. I understand clubs not being allowed to be proactive and reaching out to parents / players, but as the customer IMO I can reach out to anyone I want to, whenever I want to. |
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Post by Keeper on Mar 1, 2021 18:34:21 GMT -5
In my opinion, as a parent, you can reach out to a club any time you please. Clubs are a paid service provider. Just like AT&T cannot prevent you from calling Comcast or Verizon, a club cannot restrict you from talking to another club. I pay a club (alot of money) to train my kid and provide games for them to play in. Unless you are playing for free at Atlanta United or on a scholarship at club, the clubs do not have an ownership interest in my child. As long as I fulfill my financial obligation to the club, I can reach out to any club I want at any time. Your logic is sound except this is America where we let our elitist groups like USSoccer and the NCAA run their pseudo slavery schemes. |
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Post by mightydawg on Mar 1, 2021 18:49:05 GMT -5
In my opinion, as a parent, you can reach out to a club any time you please. Clubs are a paid service provider. Just like AT&T cannot prevent you from calling Comcast or Verizon, a club cannot restrict you from talking to another club. I pay a club (alot of money) to train my kid and provide games for them to play in. Unless you are playing for free at Atlanta United or on a scholarship at club, the clubs do not have an ownership interest in my child. As long as I fulfill my financial obligation to the club, I can reach out to any club I want at any time. Your logic is sound except this is America where we let our elitist groups like USSoccer and the NCAA run their pseudo slavery schemes. The NCAA has an argument to restrict scholarship player movement because the schools have paid tuition, room, board, etc for the player and have invested money in the player’s training. Club soccer has no such argument. Everything is being paid for by the parent. |
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Post by Keeper on Mar 2, 2021 0:41:47 GMT -5
Your logic is sound except this is America where we let our elitist groups like USSoccer and the NCAA run their pseudo slavery schemes. The NCAA has an argument to restrict scholarship player movement because the schools have paid tuition, room, board, etc for the player and have invested money in the player’s training. Club soccer has no such argument. Everything is being paid for by the parent. You still sign the same paperwork that says they do though. Don’t like it, don’t play. |
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Post by soccernoleuk on Mar 2, 2021 7:08:04 GMT -5
From the SCCL website, under Recruiting Rules, I see the following rules.
1. Coaches are not allowed to contact any players from another SCCL club during regular season play. Contact may only be initiated by a coach during the stated time frame for try-outs.
2. If a player initiates contact with a coach during regular season play, the coach must ask the player if they are committed to another SCCL club. If so, then the player will be asked to inform their current club of their intent to try-out for another club before any further action may be taken. Players may not attend training sessions as a "guest" whilst playing for another SCCL club. The SCCL expectation is that clubs will communicate clearly and honorably through this process.
To me this means clubs cannot initiate contact with players. It also means that prior to contacting another club/coach, a parent needs to inform their current coach of their intent. So, provided the parent does their part, they are free to speak with anyone they want to whenever they want to.
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Post by coffee on Mar 2, 2021 8:46:06 GMT -5
You can talk _at_ whoever you want, whenever you want. I did that when I was just beginning to learn about being a soccer parent. However, I found two things can affect how far you get with that:
- 1. the rules still have real bite when it comes to the clubs and coaches that you want to talk to (they’re rightly concerned that they may lose their license), that can make them reluctant to engage with you;
- 2. the soccer coach culture/network doesn’t soon forget transgressions by the parent that want their kids to play, or other coaches that want to keep working in the area.
This isn’t to say that you won’t get anywhere when you reach out to other clubs and coaches. There are many factors that’ll affect the response that you get. These are a few of the variables (but not all I’m sure):
- How good is your kid, relative to how bad the need of the coach/club you’re contacting is.
- How much time is left in the contract that you signed. How big is the violation?
- How big and established is the coach, or club. In other words how much do they have to lose, and do they understand the risks involved.
- What’s your story? Can you convince someone that your current club is treating you, or your child badly?
They’re all human, and will respond in differing ways. I received silence from some; and interest from others that was then shut down when the club directors found out that a coach was talking to me without my child’s playing card in hand.
I’ve since learned how to work _within_ the system. I’ve learned how to not burn too many bridges — something that was never my intention to start with. Yet, I’ve also learned some of the ways to work that system, and be the best advocate that I can be for my child.
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Post by DunwoodySoccerDad on Mar 2, 2021 8:59:49 GMT -5
You can talk _at_ whoever you want, whenever you want. I did that when I was just beginning to learn about being a soccer parent. However, I found two things can affect how far you get with that: - 1. the rules still have real bite (they’re rightly concerned that they may lose their license) when it comes to the clubs and coaches that you want to talk to, that can make them reluctant to engage with you; - 2. the soccer coach culture/network doesn’t soon forget transgressions by the parent that want their kids to play, or other coaches that want to keep working in the area. This isn’t to say that you won’t get anywhere when you reach out to other clubs and coaches. There are many factors that’ll affect the response that you get. These are a few of the variables (but not all I’m sure): - How good is your kid, relative to how bad the need of the coach/club you’re contacting is. - How much time is left in the contract that you signed. How big is the violation? - How big and established is the coach, or club. In other words how much do they have to lose, and do they understand the risks involved. - What’s your story? Can you convince someone that your current club is treating you, or your child badly? They’re all human, and will respond in differing ways. I received silence from some; and interest from others that was then shut down when the club directors found out that a coach was talking to me without my child’s playing card in hand. I’ve since learned how to work _within_ the system. I’ve learned how to not burn too many bridges — something that was never my intention to start with. Yet, I’ve also learned some of the ways to work that system, and be the best advocate that I can be for my child. Agree with all of this. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Mar 2, 2021 9:26:44 GMT -5
Agree with the above.
I will say that you can and should be an advocate for your child while being careful not to burn bridges, but some coaches will get their feelings hurt that you do not agree with their methods. So you may not burn a bridge with the club but may with that coach. You may not care (we don't) but just remember people talk.
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Post by georgiasoccerdad on Mar 2, 2021 10:47:26 GMT -5
Don't clubs have pre tryout "Camps"? My daughter went to these on a few occasions so a perspective coach could get a look before the mass of humanity hits the field. Also, I've heard several of our coaches say tryouts for existing players are a waste of time. Coaches have seen them play for the entire year and should know exactly where they need to be placed for the upcoming season.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Mar 2, 2021 11:58:01 GMT -5
Many have given very sound and in the soccer legal context very good advice to stay within the "rules" However, depending on the club and if your team is still playing you have to be careful how you approach this. A couple of years ago there was a coach(DA) who got his pants all twisted because some of his players went to an ID camp at another club and he benched them for a game. Now this was when SSA & CF where merging two teams into one so everyone was trying to secure a spot in DA since at least half the lads were statistically going to be cut. At the end of the day like oraclesfriend stated, you have to be your child's advocate. But like coffee stated, it's all dependent on a myriad of factors and the attitude of the offended and potentially offending club or parent... |
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Mar 2, 2021 12:04:01 GMT -5
In my opinion, as a parent, you can reach out to a club any time you please. Clubs are a paid service provider. Just like AT&T cannot prevent you from calling Comcast or Verizon, a club cannot restrict you from talking to another club. I pay a club (alot of money) to train my kid and provide games for them to play in. Unless you are playing for free at Atlanta United or on a scholarship at club, the clubs do not have an ownership interest in my child. As long as I fulfill my financial obligation to the club, I can reach out to any club I want at any time. I have said this for years and will add that I don't understand how we as parents get marginalized by clubs we are paying thousands to. We should be setting the rules of play(no pun intended), not the clubs. There should be some "accepted rules" that benefit the families and not the clubs. For example, the May 1st open recruitment and engagement date I think is fine and you should not have to get permission from your current club. I mean, when we're looking for another job, we don't tell our current job we're looking, however when you do get the offer from the new one, the accepted action is to give two weeks. I think clubs should be putting their best foot forward come May 1st since it's in fact recruitment season. Just my 2 cents... |
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Post by mightydawg on Mar 2, 2021 12:38:47 GMT -5
In my opinion, as a parent, you can reach out to a club any time you please. Clubs are a paid service provider. Just like AT&T cannot prevent you from calling Comcast or Verizon, a club cannot restrict you from talking to another club. I pay a club (alot of money) to train my kid and provide games for them to play in. Unless you are playing for free at Atlanta United or on a scholarship at club, the clubs do not have an ownership interest in my child. As long as I fulfill my financial obligation to the club, I can reach out to any club I want at any time. I have said this for years and will add that I don't understand how we as parents get marginalized by clubs we are paying thousands to. We should be setting the rules of play(no pun intended), not the clubs. There should be some "accepted rules" that benefit the families and not the clubs. For example, the May 1st open recruitment and engagement date I think is fine and you should not have to get permission from your current club. I mean, when we're looking for another job, we don't tell our current job we're looking, however when you do get the offer from the new one, the accepted action is to give two weeks. I think clubs should be putting their best foot forward come May 1st since it's in fact recruitment season. Just my 2 cents... The funniest thing to me is the difference between the ECNL rules and the SCCL rules. ENCL allows clubs to recruit players for participation on ECNL teams at any time during the year but they cannot train, invite to train, invite to tryout or tray out any ECNL registered player from another ECNL club. Here is the real kicker, "for the purposes of clarification, except for tryouts of ECNL Registered Players of other ECNL Clubs, tryouts for ECNL Teams may be held at any time of the year." Therefore, you can talk to a club any time that you want about ECNL (if you are not a current ECNL player) and go try out for the ECNL team at any time (if you are not a current ECNL player). GAL rules are exactly same as ECNL. Tryout any time as long as you are currently with a GAL club. |
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Post by DunwoodySoccerDad on Mar 2, 2021 12:46:57 GMT -5
Don't clubs have pre tryout "Camps"? My daughter went to these on a few occasions so a perspective coach could get a look before the mass of humanity hits the field. Also, I've heard several of our coaches say tryouts for existing players are a waste of time. Coaches have seen them play for the entire year and should know exactly where they need to be placed for the upcoming season. They all have the pre-tryout camps, but my experience has been that they're really no different than tryouts - ie: lots of kids, they seem to already know who they want on their team by that point, they don't REALLY evaluate the new kids the way you would expect, etc. That's not to say that you shouldn't attend them for the club you want to move to (or stay), but it's just not a great way for your kid to be evaluated if you're moving to a new club, IMO. |
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Post by GameOfThrow-ins on Mar 2, 2021 14:38:49 GMT -5
Don't clubs have pre tryout "Camps"? My daughter went to these on a few occasions so a perspective coach could get a look before the mass of humanity hits the field. Also, I've heard several of our coaches say tryouts for existing players are a waste of time. Coaches have seen them play for the entire year and should know exactly where they need to be placed for the upcoming season. With the advent of AU’s Atlanta Unite Cup, several clubs are pushing the envelope and using the entire spring as a proving ground for next year’s top teams, even adding to that tournament by scheduling out of state Friendlies and assembling off-the-books teams to train & compete in them. If you’re not in the loop, you’re out of it, and camp attendance won’t change that. |
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Post by GameOfThrow-ins on Mar 2, 2021 14:39:51 GMT -5
Don't clubs have pre tryout "Camps"? My daughter went to these on a few occasions so a perspective coach could get a look before the mass of humanity hits the field. Also, I've heard several of our coaches say tryouts for existing players are a waste of time. Coaches have seen them play for the entire year and should know exactly where they need to be placed for the upcoming season. With the advent of AU’s Atlanta Unite Cup, several clubs on the boys side are pushing the envelope and using the entire spring as a proving ground for next year’s top teams, even adding to that tournament by scheduling out of state Friendlies and assembling off-the-books teams to train & compete in them. If you’re not in the loop, you’re out of it, and camp attendance won’t change that. |
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Post by roki12 on Mar 2, 2021 15:27:04 GMT -5
Don't clubs have pre tryout "Camps"? My daughter went to these on a few occasions so a perspective coach could get a look before the mass of humanity hits the field. Also, I've heard several of our coaches say tryouts for existing players are a waste of time. Coaches have seen them play for the entire year and should know exactly where they need to be placed for the upcoming season. With the advent of AU’s Atlanta Unite Cup, several clubs are pushing the envelope and using the entire spring as a proving ground for next year’s top teams, even adding to that tournament by scheduling out of state Friendlies and assembling off-the-books teams to train & compete in them. If you’re not in the loop, you’re out of it, and camp attendance won’t change that. I find it really sad the way the system work. |
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Post by bogan on Mar 2, 2021 15:55:48 GMT -5
With the advent of AU’s Atlanta Unite Cup, several clubs are pushing the envelope and using the entire spring as a proving ground for next year’s top teams, even adding to that tournament by scheduling out of state Friendlies and assembling off-the-books teams to train & compete in them. If you’re not in the loop, you’re out of it, and camp attendance won’t change that. I find it really sad the way the system work. It is-anecdotally-a couple of years back my son was pushing hard to make a DA team. The coach kept him in the lurch about it but kept wanting him to train with them (which he did along with his regular practice) and do Super Y with them (which he did). At the end of the season when it was time for tryouts I asked ahead of time if he had a chance or if we were wasting our time (we going to go on vacation that week). Stayed for tryouts...got word from team manager that the roster had been set before tryouts. It’s a dirty business. And it is a business. We’ve since changed clubs and are pretty happy...they’ve been straight forward with us. I don’t know where I’m going with this except to say the process or lack thereof can really suck. |
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Post by soccerdad30303 on Mar 2, 2021 15:59:08 GMT -5
All of this sounds so similar to travel baseball shenanigans, Tophat is like East Cobb Astros. They know who they want and their name brings all the kids to the yard. Tough for new kids to get seen if they don’t know the scene.
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Post by mightydawg on Mar 2, 2021 16:07:57 GMT -5
All of this sounds so similar to travel baseball shenanigans, Tophat is like East Cobb Astros. They know who they want and their name brings all the kids to the yard. Tough for new kids to get seen if they don’t know the scene. It is a dirty business, full of shenanigans. None of the clubs have loyalty. They care about numbers, which equal dollars. If they can bring in a whole team or half a team from another club, they will do it even if the caliber of player is lower. The way the clubs see it, they have the players that are currently on their rosters under their control, particularly if you have been at the club for a while. If the club can bring in more paying members, more money for the club. it is not about player development. It is about money and control. Parents need to have the same attitude. Make sure that you are getting what you are paying for. It has been said on here a million times--find the right coach. Don't worry about the club. |
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Post by roki12 on Mar 2, 2021 17:13:07 GMT -5
All of this sounds so similar to travel baseball shenanigans, Tophat is like East Cobb Astros. They know who they want and their name brings all the kids to the yard. Tough for new kids to get seen if they don’t know the scene. It is a dirty business, full of shenanigans. None of the clubs have loyalty. They care about numbers, which equal dollars. If they can bring in a whole team or half a team from another club, they will do it even if the caliber of player is lower. The way the clubs see it, they have the players that are currently on their rosters under their control, particularly if you have been at the club for a while. If the club can bring in more paying members, more money for the club. it is not about player development. It is about money and control. Parents need to have the same attitude. Make sure that you are getting what you are paying for. It has been said on here a million times--find the right coach. Don't worry about the club. Why do that to kids though? I honestly don’t get it. It’s a customer based business so why screw the paying kids and customers? I’m trying to think of a comparable business. Closest I can think of is competitive private schools that have a set number of students they can take in. A school wouldn’t kick out it’s current students at the expense of new students. By constantly wanting to be on better teams we have created and are feeding this monster. |
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Post by mightydawg on Mar 2, 2021 17:41:04 GMT -5
It is a dirty business, full of shenanigans. None of the clubs have loyalty. They care about numbers, which equal dollars. If they can bring in a whole team or half a team from another club, they will do it even if the caliber of player is lower. The way the clubs see it, they have the players that are currently on their rosters under their control, particularly if you have been at the club for a while. If the club can bring in more paying members, more money for the club. it is not about player development. It is about money and control. Parents need to have the same attitude. Make sure that you are getting what you are paying for. It has been said on here a million times--find the right coach. Don't worry about the club. Why do that to kids though? I honestly don’t get it. It’s a customer based business so why screw the paying kids and customers? I’m trying to think of a comparable business. Closest I can think of is competitive private schools that have a set number of students they can take in. A school wouldn’t kick out it’s current students at the expense of new students. By constantly wanting to be on better teams we have created and are feeding this monster. Unfortunately, there are many industries like this. Take the cell phone market for example, they typically offer the best deals on phones to new customers or customers adding a new line. Cable TV is much the same way. Comcast and AT&T will offer better deals to new customers than to existing customers. You typically have to fight like hell and negotiate the get the same deal they are offering to new customers for signing up or you have to leave for a competitor. Sadly, soccer is the same way. You have to fight for your kid to be treated the same as a new kid coming into the club or you have to leave so that you can get the deal for being a new customer at a competitor. Look at the top U12 team at most clubs. I pick this year because it is the last year of academy before the search for "higher level" leagues comes into play. How many of those kids have been at the club since U9? When a player leaves, where do they look to fill the gap from--a new kid or a kid that has been developed in the academy? How many of those kids have been developed from a 2nd or 3rd team player to a top team player? |
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