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Post by soccermaxx72 on Apr 10, 2021 9:58:27 GMT -5
So obviously this has been coming for awhile but specifically on the Girls Side I honestly don’t see how the local Atlanta smaller clubs survive. Specifically the size clubs like Roswell, Ambush, LSA, Alll-In, Cherokee Impact who don’t have ECNL, ECRL, GAL, DPL to offer to their girls. I would assume the o my hope is to have random teams in NL pro and hope for relevance but that is team based and not something a club at all levels to develop any depth.
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Post by disturbed on Apr 10, 2021 10:06:58 GMT -5
Maybe they'll turn into legitimate feeder clubs and get bought out by the Big 6.
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Post by DunwoodySoccerDad on Apr 10, 2021 10:33:39 GMT -5
I'd be really curious to know if these clubs applied to ECNL/ECRL and/or GAL/DPL. I think we all assume that each of them have applied to one or both and were denied. Under that assumption, I am disappointed to hear that these pathways to higher level leagues are closed off. There are some really talented players and good coaches at these clubs.
Maybe they will get bought by the bigger clubs at some point - and for all we know, maybe that's the whole idea behind excluding them.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 10, 2021 10:50:55 GMT -5
I don't feel like you can lump in Santos with LSA and All in. Santos has multiple teams at all age groups for girls as far as I know. LSA does not and never has had multiple teams once you get to 11v11 and neither has All in. Some age groups at LSA don't have a team at all (i.e 04 which fell apart two years ago). Santos is a medium sized club on the girls side. (By multiple I mean more than one).
I do agree that these clubs have quality players and coaches. Really it is a shame that we can't have local clubs be studs anymore, but I am part of that problem. We have moved away from a smaller club and it benefited my players. One trouble with a small club is that if you don't like the coach there is no other team to play on.
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Post by putmeincoach on Apr 10, 2021 11:25:04 GMT -5
Unfortunately you are correct. It is over for them. GA Soccer is done and the pathways have become clear. ECNL/ ECNLR looks to be the "top" league while GA/ DPL look to be setting themselves up as the USYS alternative but the clubs and teams aren't as strong as the ECNL ones (at least for now). I really don't this DPL will be good and outside of Roswell the issue is most of these clubs still can't produce a decent team in all age groups which is required for a club based league. I assume Roswell will be picked apart but the ECNL/ ECNLR teams as they have no league to offer.
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Post by ecnlquestions on Apr 10, 2021 11:37:54 GMT -5
One thing that the small clubs still have is some very good coaches. If the bigger clubs really wanted to push these small clubs out they’d just take the top 2/3 coaches from these clubs.
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Post by soccermaxx72 on Apr 10, 2021 12:35:31 GMT -5
I don't feel like you can lump in Santos with LSA and All in. Santos has multiple teams at all age groups for girls as far as I know. LSA does not and never has had multiple teams once you get to 11v11 and neither has All in. Some age groups at LSA don't have a team at all (i.e 04 which fell apart two years ago). Santos is a medium sized club on the girls side. (By multiple I mean more than one). I do agree that these clubs have quality players and coaches. Really it is a shame that we can't have local clubs be studs anymore, but I am part of that problem. We have moved away from a smaller club and it benefited my players. One trouble with a small club is that if you don't like the coach there is no other team to play on. The reason I lump Roswell in with them is even if they have multiple groups per age bracket, if you don’t have any of the above listed leagues you are irrelevant. To have your top of 3 teams in SCCL club next year, which will now be the equivalent of SCCL premier 1, you are irrelevant. I could argue that an allin of LSA with a team or 2 in NL pro is better than Roswell having their best team in a weakened SCCL club |
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Post by Keeper on Apr 10, 2021 13:07:03 GMT -5
Not sure about All In or LSA, but I’m pretty sure Ambush, Santos, Rush, & Impact are all in the process of going MLSNext/DPL route.
Though I would not be surprised if the Impact/FC Alliance merger talks come back as that would allow them to get ECNL without having to get territory approval from Gsa (who are vetoing all additions to encl/ercl).
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Post by rifle on Apr 10, 2021 13:11:04 GMT -5
A lot of good coaching out there and a lot of good soccer being played.. but it’s a shame when it isn’t a meritocracy anymore.
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Post by bogan on Apr 10, 2021 13:45:02 GMT -5
A lot of good coaching out there and a lot of good soccer being played.. but it’s a shame when it isn’t a meritocracy anymore. True- one (O’Hara) of the starting USWNT players comes from a smedium club (AFC). But I suppose that it just the way things are now. Like I’ve said before-there will be 5 clubs left in Georgia. The smaller clubs will become affiliated. |
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Post by ball2futbol on Apr 10, 2021 14:06:44 GMT -5
I don't feel like you can lump in Santos with LSA and All in. Santos has multiple teams at all age groups for girls as far as I know. LSA does not and never has had multiple teams once you get to 11v11 and neither has All in. Some age groups at LSA don't have a team at all (i.e 04 which fell apart two years ago). Santos is a medium sized club on the girls side. (By multiple I mean more than one). I do agree that these clubs have quality players and coaches. Really it is a shame that we can't have local clubs be studs anymore, but I am part of that problem. We have moved away from a smaller club and it benefited my players. One trouble with a small club is that if you don't like the coach there is no other team to play on. The reason I lump Roswell in with them is even if they have multiple groups per age bracket, if you don’t have any of the above listed leagues you are irrelevant. To have your top of 3 teams in SCCL club next year, which will now be the equivalent of SCCL premier 1, you are irrelevant. I could argue that an allin of LSA with a team or 2 in NL pro is better than Roswell having their best team in a weakened SCCL club [br There’s still time but without some alliance it sounds like the Roswell talent bleed will continue for those girls looking for more exposure. Should be an interesting discussion amongst their board members. |
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Post by soccermaxx72 on Apr 10, 2021 15:34:13 GMT -5
Not sure about All In or LSA, but I’m pretty sure Ambush, Santos, Rush, & Impact are all in the process of going MLSNext/DPL route. Though I would not be surprised if the Impact/FC Alliance merger talks come back as that would allow them to get ECNL without having to get territory approval from Gsa (who are vetoing all additions to encl/ercl). That would be smart, if they want any relevance you need minimum DPL |
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Post by rifle on Apr 10, 2021 17:33:37 GMT -5
The reason I lump Roswell in with them is even if they have multiple groups per age bracket, if you don’t have any of the above listed leagues you are irrelevant. To have your top of 3 teams in SCCL club next year, which will now be the equivalent of SCCL premier 1, you are irrelevant. I could argue that an allin of LSA with a team or 2 in NL pro is better than Roswell having their best team in a weakened SCCL club [br There’s still time but without some alliance it sounds like the Roswell talent bleed will continue for those girls looking for more exposure. Should be an interesting discussion amongst their board members. I’ve always thought a RSC alliance with Rush and Ambush (and Cherokee before they found different ties) would make a lot of sense. I was honestly pleasantly surprised they managed to convince Roswell Parks and Rec to leave the state umbrella for SCCL last year... so anything is possible. |
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Post by greenmonkey on Apr 10, 2021 19:55:44 GMT -5
I'd be really curious to know if these clubs applied to ECNL/ECRL and/or GAL/DPL. I think we all assume that each of them have applied to one or both and were denied. Under that assumption, I am disappointed to hear that these pathways to higher level leagues are closed off. There are some really talented players and good coaches at these clubs. Maybe they will get bought by the bigger clubs at some point - and for all we know, maybe that's the whole idea behind excluding them. Ask the Norcross Fury Girls how being bought out by UFA worked out for them ... |
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Post by Keeper on Apr 10, 2021 20:19:34 GMT -5
I'd be really curious to know if these clubs applied to ECNL/ECRL and/or GAL/DPL. I think we all assume that each of them have applied to one or both and were denied. Under that assumption, I am disappointed to hear that these pathways to higher level leagues are closed off. There are some really talented players and good coaches at these clubs. Maybe they will get bought by the bigger clubs at some point - and for all we know, maybe that's the whole idea behind excluding them. Ask the Norcross Fury Girls how being bought out by UFA worked out for them ... Heard the craziest thing that they may be looking to exit that buyout, or at least another branch is. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 11, 2021 10:05:59 GMT -5
3 Norcross girls problems
1) the lack of “higher” level girls soccer 6-10 years ago was the start of the demise of the girls program at Norcross - many players left year after year for ecnl
2) to put it bluntly 3-4 individuals/coaches 5-6 years ago caused a huge loss of players
3) the merger never helped the girls program
A lot happened at the same time, merger, age mandate, coaches leaving, coaches staying, tpdl, etc. All this caused a mad exodus of older players and then siblings left as well. The Younger age academy girls who used to play at Norcross then began opting for Concorde, Afu and Fowler instead.
Small clubs used to be the greatest thing ever - you knew every coach and every player, it felt like a family atmosphere vs a business.
But without the merger Norcross by itself never would have gotten girls ecnl even when they were very high quality.
The landscape of youth soccer is just so different now but it does seem like Norcross girls program is just barely holding on.
I’m getting old but 7-10 years ago their top teams could play with any team in the city.
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Post by DunwoodySoccerDad on Apr 11, 2021 10:41:18 GMT -5
3 Norcross girls problems 1) the lack of “higher” level girls soccer 6-10 years ago was the start of the demise of the girls program at Norcross - many players left year after year for ecnl 2) to put it bluntly 3-4 individuals/coaches 5-6 years ago caused a huge loss of players 3) the merger never helped the girls program A lot happened at the same time, merger, age mandate, coaches leaving, coaches staying, tpdl, etc. All this caused a mad exodus of older players and then siblings left as well. The Younger age academy girls who used to play at Norcross then began opting for Concorde, Afu and Fowler instead. Small clubs used to be the greatest thing ever - you knew every coach and every player, it felt like a family atmosphere vs a business. But without the merger Norcross by itself never would have gotten girls ecnl even when they were very high quality. The landscape of youth soccer is just so different now but it does seem like Norcross girls program is just barely holding on. I’m getting old but 7-10 years ago their top teams could play with any team in the city. We've only been there 3 years but based on what I've observed in that time, your comments make a lot of sense. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 11, 2021 15:29:24 GMT -5
3 Norcross girls problems 1) the lack of “higher” level girls soccer 6-10 years ago was the start of the demise of the girls program at Norcross - many players left year after year for ecnl 2) to put it bluntly 3-4 individuals/coaches 5-6 years ago caused a huge loss of players 3) the merger never helped the girls program A lot happened at the same time, merger, age mandate, coaches leaving, coaches staying, tpdl, etc. All this caused a mad exodus of older players and then siblings left as well. The Younger age academy girls who used to play at Norcross then began opting for Concorde, Afu and Fowler instead. Small clubs used to be the greatest thing ever - you knew every coach and every player, it felt like a family atmosphere vs a business. But without the merger Norcross by itself never would have gotten girls ecnl even when they were very high quality. The landscape of youth soccer is just so different now but it does seem like Norcross girls program is just barely holding on. I’m getting old but 7-10 years ago their top teams could play with any team in the city. Norcross (girls) currently reminds me of a small club. They generally have one team per age group with the occasional second team (not sure this has happened this year). There is a reasonably big split between the best player(s) and the worst player(s). I do think that this is less true in the older teams. Their one team is usually quite a bit better than most small clubs with less split between top and bottom players but it is still much bigger than most other SCCL-C teams. There is one difference though and that is they have the ability to guest play Forsyth kids and vice versa. It helps when injuries/illness/absence happens. I also think it helps with the academy game scheduling. Most small clubs do not have the option of playing a bunch of big 6 teams. |
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Post by bogan on Apr 11, 2021 16:18:29 GMT -5
Something I’ve often wondered is why some clubs don’t adopt a more European model and just have one team-make tryouts meaningful where only the better players get in rather than having 2-3 mediocre teams per age group.
Maybe you don’t compete with the very top but you could have a decently competitive team.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 11, 2021 16:29:27 GMT -5
Something I’ve often wondered is why some clubs don’t adopt a more European model and just have one team-make tryouts meaningful where only the better players get in rather than having 2-3 mediocre teams per age group. Maybe you don’t compete with the very top but you could have a decently competitive team. My personal experience says this would make the pool too tiny. For example I know a girl who was top team of 5 at U12. At U13 was down to second team and by U14 third team. She was a good player at U12 but she did not improve as quickly as her teammates. I am also aware several really good players as academy and younger select (pre-high school) who quit freshman or sophomore years of high school. Major attrition with no one to fill in would leave these teams and clubs with too few players if there are no second and third teams. Also you have these late blooming kids who are third team or less at U12 but move up as they get more serious or more mature or just start to concentrate on soccer. Oh yeah and money. |
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Post by greenmonkey on Apr 11, 2021 16:32:30 GMT -5
Something I’ve often wondered is why some clubs don’t adopt a more European model and just have one team-make tryouts meaningful where only the better players get in rather than having 2-3 mediocre teams per age group. Maybe you don’t compete with the very top but you could have a decently competitive team. THIS ^ Especially when you have the McGinnis Ferry fields halfway between. No reason why the NPL teams who are being “promoted to ECRL” shouldn’t “combine” with the Norcross SCCL Club teams (that are left) Why aren’t there 08, 07, 06, 05, 04, 03 teams made up of the top players in the age groups for college showcases etc? Why don’t they use developmental players from Norcross or from their own Fowler second teams? Because it’s the girls side. Period. The top boys teams are run out of Norcross or South or Fowler each depending on the strength of the team or the willingness of the coach or the benefit of the club. The girls are always told if you want a higher level of play go try out at Fowler. |
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Post by bogan on Apr 11, 2021 16:43:27 GMT -5
Something I’ve often wondered is why some clubs don’t adopt a more European model and just have one team-make tryouts meaningful where only the better players get in rather than having 2-3 mediocre teams per age group. Maybe you don’t compete with the very top but you could have a decently competitive team. My personal experience says this would make the pool too tiny. For example I know a girl who was top team of 5 at U12. At U13 was down to second team and by U14 third team. She was a good player at U12 but she did not improve as quickly as her teammates. I am also aware several really good players as academy and younger select (pre-high school) who quit freshman or sophomore years of high school. Major attrition with no one to fill in would leave these teams and clubs with too few players if there are no second and third teams. Also you have these late blooming kids who are third team or less at U12 but move up as they get more serious or more mature or just start to concentrate on soccer. Oh yeah and money. You forgot money. And oh Money. 😂 |
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Post by mightydawg on Apr 11, 2021 17:07:26 GMT -5
UFA seems to operate its locations as completely separate clubs who happen to have the same uniforms.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 11, 2021 17:39:36 GMT -5
UFA seems to operate its locations as completely separate clubs who happen to have the same uniforms. Sort of. As a Forsyth person for several years with one kid we guest played for Norcross a number of times at various age groups. I also know of one girl who was told by a person in charge to go to Norcross for her U13 year because they were going to play in Athena A and Red would play Athena B and the girl was not going to make Forsyth premier (coach just did not like her enough). I think it helped this girl's development more than being second team at Forsyth would have done on that particular year. |
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Post by realisemykiddoesntpl on May 3, 2021 20:08:20 GMT -5
It is all so silly. Just play for the club that is nearest to where you live. If your kid is a star they will be noticed. My kid plays for a small intown club and I can assure you that the colleges that she and her team mates got into are far better than the players of the top teams of the biggest clubs in the state. You parents are being duped.
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Post by oraclesfriend on May 3, 2021 20:13:23 GMT -5
It is all so silly. Just play for the club that is nearest to where you live. If your kid is a star they will be noticed. My kid plays for a small intown club and I can assure you that the colleges that she and her team mates got into are far better than the players of the top teams of the biggest clubs in the state. You parents are being duped. Might work if you like the coaches there. Not so much if you don't. We left the closest club to us because the coach played favorites horribly. Basically he only coached the kids he liked and left the rest to fend for themselves. Plus he lied. He called them to play on their age group's top team then would sit them on the bench for the whole game or play them 5 minutes (at 9 and 10 years old). All kinds of craziness like that happened. Sorry, but I am not going to put up with that. We played at the second closest club to us after that for a long time. Ran into issues there after several years with one coach. Like many say it is not the club...it is the coach that matters. |
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Post by soccerlegacy on May 3, 2021 20:58:24 GMT -5
It is all so silly. Just play for the club that is nearest to where you live. If your kid is a star they will be noticed. My kid plays for a small intown club and I can assure you that the colleges that she and her team mates got into are far better than the players of the top teams of the biggest clubs in the state. You parents are being duped. Sorry, but this sounds kind of subjective. Your experience might give you that perspective, but there are many factors to account for. I am curious though... WHAT colleges are these that are far better than those players from the top teams of the biggest clubs in the state?? Again, sounds subjective on what you deem to be a better college, can you provide any names of these colleges? Who knows, maybe I need to rethink things if you can provide some evidence. |
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Post by atlfutboldad on May 4, 2021 8:39:18 GMT -5
Might work if you like the coaches there. Not so much if you don't. We left the closest club to us because the coach played favorites horribly. Basically he only coached the kids he liked and left the rest to fend for themselves. Plus he lied. He called them to play on their age group's top team then would sit them on the bench for the whole game or play them 5 minutes (at 9 and 10 years old). All kinds of craziness like that happened. Sorry, but I am not going to put up with that. We played at the second closest club to us after that for a long time. Ran into issues there after several years with one coach. Like many say it is not the club...it is the coach that matters. There's something to be said for club philosophy and the club taking an administrative interest in what the coaches are doing. |
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Post by Waterboy on May 4, 2021 12:16:58 GMT -5
In reply to just about all things being said. We have spent many years at smaller clubs (3 clubs in all over the last 11 or so years), why you may ask well thats because we benefited from excellent coaching and development. These clubs would also be considered feeder type clubs with either affiliations or other locations that have higher level of competition. We were always promised opportunity to train at these other locations but when it came down to it there was very little excitement to allow this to happen. Clubs are difficult things and coaches are prideful and parents well wen just want what we think is best for our children. In our case just an opportunity. One thing I do know, don't count on an affiliation or other locations because their is alot of talent in this area and its all about who you know and wether or not a coach would be willing to potentially lose a player. So there is no good answer, its all very individual. My experience, pounce on an opportunity as it comes because they will not come often.
Just so you know, my girls are both playing ECNL now.
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Post by atlutd17 on May 4, 2021 18:56:33 GMT -5
While Europe made a statement about inclusivity led by the fans of the big English clubs, the trend for the exact opposite from top to bottom is growing strong here in America.
Football first / money second vs money first / soccer second
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