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Post by onekickpop on Apr 29, 2021 13:44:04 GMT -5
I am curious about this. What has been the track record for ATL Homegrowns? How many U11 SCCL / U12 MLS NEXT players actually make it from there all the way through to U18/19, college, ATL2, MLS? I’ve also wondered this. If subject A plays for a decent local MLS NEXT club and subject B plays for ATLUTD, and both happen to get recruited to the same Div 1 school, play the same position, etc, how much weight does ATLUTD carry on your resume? Are schools anxiously recruiting ATLUTD players over say another top player from a smaller club?
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Post by soulsurvivin on Apr 29, 2021 16:46:41 GMT -5
I have been researching this topic a little. Not sure about the percentage that go pro but only 1.3 percent of guys go on to get soccer scholarships at the D1 level: www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/estimated-probability-competing-college-athleticsI have been looking at the rosters of D1 programs and they certainly have many seem to have former DA players, ECNL and sometimes NPL players. However you also have to be a good student. Georgetown University won the title and it’s not easy to get into that school. I’m guessing the numbers for pro are even less but not sure with all of the international leagues. Organizations like Atl United are first class and surely this helps your resume. |
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Post by onekickpop on Apr 29, 2021 17:02:19 GMT -5
Great resource! Thanks for sharing.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 29, 2021 17:09:43 GMT -5
honestly - if the players are being recruited by the same school, it will come down to coaches impressions and whom he thinks is the better fit.
the harder part is getting seen at the other non-mls clubs. to attend a top d-1 school you have to pretty much me on a really good team or be an outstanding player in my opinion. The concorde and UFA teams that were very good 2 years ago were all heavily recruited by big time schools -- but those teams won the south east division or made it to the DA finals!
The difference is typically the AU teams will be better teams, better teams = better looks = more exposure = more opportunities
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Post by allthingsoccer on Apr 29, 2021 18:07:27 GMT -5
I do know the goalkeeper program is strong over at AU.
Ryan Schewe- Freshman/ Georgetown
Justin Garces- Junior/ UCLA
Collin Travasos- Freshman/ University of California
Brant Zulauf- Freshman/ Mercer University
Sam Morton- Junior/ Princeton University
Sai Brown- Sophomore/ Georgia Southern
Vicente Reyes- Pro/ Atlanta United 2
Marzuq Puckerin- Pro/ Revolution II
Russel Shealy- Sophomore/ Syracuse University
Josh Hangi- Freshman/Akron University
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Post by newposter on Apr 29, 2021 19:01:51 GMT -5
I would encourage you to look at the Big 5 clubs top teams and their signings. I think you would be surprised that they have College signings on par with AU.
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Post by soulsurvivin on Apr 29, 2021 19:15:23 GMT -5
For those of us with younger players, it can be a long road. You have to build skill to play at mls next level. Then one must ask the question about playing time in a competitive environment and pressure on kid depending on age. I have thought about this but I would potentially opt to pay fees vs ATLUTD, where fees are paid. If you do not produce you could get cut from the squad.
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Post by allthingsoccer on Apr 29, 2021 19:46:37 GMT -5
absolutely, even the small clubs have players in D1 and do pretty well.
Yes, its a different environment at AU but its another part of the process. Just because you go to D1 doesnt mean you will play all that much as well. It's cut-throat. I think this is where the benefit comes in by being in the AU system.
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Post by newposter on Apr 29, 2021 23:29:53 GMT -5
Id go look at AU and see how many from their academy play vd. the number of players purchased and brought in since the AU inception. Just look at this years signees vs. Academy at the big club. Its not many.
I think the statement about D1 and not playing has no basis in fact.
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Post by onekickpop on Apr 30, 2021 5:44:59 GMT -5
If you look & top 4 in ECNL at both the U17 and U18/19 ages you have NASA, Atlanta Fire, GSA, UFA (U17), and Alabama, AU, GSA and NASA (U18) respectively. The competition and recruitment in ECNL is certainly a key reason I assume that AU fields a team there. They want to play quality games in the SE while also getting some exposure.
What does AU do for their alumni? I am aware of Machop Choi but have not heard another similar success story. He appears to be a much more dynamic player than Carleton or Bello. How long after the Academy
Will players still be contractually bound to AU?
I think over time it will be interesting to see how many young players make it through their system, remain healthy and either have successful college careers or move to pro.
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Post by allthingsoccer on Apr 30, 2021 6:34:30 GMT -5
Id go look at AU and see how many from their academy play vd. the number of players purchased and brought in since the AU inception. Just look at this years signees vs. Academy at the big club. Its not many. I think the statement about D1 and not playing has no basis in fact. Not sure I know what vd. means. Look at Freshman starters etc.. If you think that you are coming in from "club" (AU included) soccer and going to a top D1 and playing out the gate, you may want to rethink mind set. |
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Post by allthingsoccer on Apr 30, 2021 6:43:00 GMT -5
If you look & top 4 in ECNL at both the U17 and U18/19 ages you have NASA, Atlanta Fire, GSA, UFA (U17), and Alabama, AU, GSA and NASA (U18) respectively. The competition and recruitment in ECNL is certainly a key reason I assume that AU fields a team there. They want to play quality games in the SE while also getting some exposure. What does AU do for their alumni? I am aware of Machop Choi but have not heard another similar success story. He appears to be a much more dynamic player than Carleton or Bello. How long after the Academy Will players still be contractually bound to AU? I think over time it will be interesting to see how many young players make it through their system, remain healthy and either have successful college careers or move to pro. I think that was just Fall for 2020 that AU played ECNL. I think they will move to full time MLSNext but regardless you are right. Even if they are not in ECNL they still set up "friendlies" with those clubs. Meaningful games for sure. The player pool in GA is great. AU owns the rights before Super draft, they can elect to sign before then, if not then free agent. AU is still so new. First year academy players are seniors or just graduated. More and more will pop out for sure. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 30, 2021 7:24:46 GMT -5
This is where it gets interesting -- when you start to see academy players graduating from college - this is where the MLS and USL has it wrong, a team will draft a player to play in the USL because an MLS team might own its rights for the MLS
or a player might not get drafted because an MLS club doesn't relinquish their mls rights until very late and the player is left out in the cold.
I just don't see players like Jackson Conway playing with the first team as long as Josef is around.
I say the same thing for Wolf, this coaching staff has to win, he needs to field a team week to week with the top 11 players, you can't tell me Wolf is a top 11 player on this roster. Assuming his minutes will all be with the 2s.
Not sure whats going on with george campbell, maybe he took a ding and is a little banged up.
When healthy I expect to see Machop get minutes.
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Apr 30, 2021 15:27:29 GMT -5
I am curious about this. What has been the track record for ATL Homegrowns? How many U11 SCCL / U12 MLS NEXT players actually make it from there all the way through to U18/19, college, ATL2, MLS? I’ve also wondered this. If subject A plays for a decent local MLS NEXT club and subject B plays for ATLUTD, and both happen to get recruited to the same Div 1 school, play the same position, etc, how much weight does ATLUTD carry on your resume? Are schools anxiously recruiting ATLUTD players over say another top player from a smaller club? Based on how you're using homegrowns I'm assuming you mean the boys that go through the full Academy program. First some caveats. The Academy program is young, beginning with the first tryouts in April 2016. Not counting the graduating class of 2017 or 2021, they have currently placed 37 former academy players in the college ranks. Specifically to your question about making it all the way, you have to remember that the youngest team to start in the academy are the current 2004s back in Fall of 2016, so they are only U17s now and have at least one more year in the academy. So far they do have one MLS HG in Morales, and many who play with the AU2 & U19 teams. Behind the 2004s is a very strong 2005 and 2006 team... In regards to your A vs B scenario, let me say this. There are boys who lay locally, not currently at AU who may have been cut or who may never have been given a chance. With that said, even at AU on these teams, there are boys who fall into one of three groups. The potential pro player, the maybe pro or maybe star in college player and everyone else. Given a choice between players in that third group at AU and at a non-MLS club, I think the marketing and name cache of Atlanta United will give the AU player a slight edge. This is also helped by the exposure these kids get from being at an MLS club, film, facilities, tournaments, showcases and let's not forget the level of training day in day out... |
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Post by footyfan on Apr 30, 2021 20:29:24 GMT -5
Carleton at the Georgia Storm.
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Post by Soccerhouse on May 13, 2021 8:46:29 GMT -5
Word is Goslin is on a trial in Europe, No other details provided, but he's likely to train with multiple clubs in search of a contract.
Interestingly -- Goslin and Carleton are still considered top 25 players from the class of 2000. But considering the list excludes college players, its clearly not accurate. Surely there are many college players now in the 2000 class that would rate higher than Carleton and Goslin.
They would most likely be rising seniors in college --- you can't tell me USL is better than College for these kids.
Give me 2-4 years of college any day over USL - my only exception would be if you were playing on a top 5 USL side.
Darly Dike is a great example - 2 years of school with no youth national team camps. I'm sure there others still in school
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Post by soccergurl on May 13, 2021 14:26:53 GMT -5
I would encourage you to look at the Big 5 clubs top teams and their signings. I think you would be surprised that they have College signings on par with AU. |duh, that is goal of club not goal of au| |
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Post by newposter on May 13, 2021 18:10:34 GMT -5
Go check roster. Lots of homegrowns...not! Posters eluded that AU have more college signees. I was making the point that the Big 5 clubs have many signees also...duh.
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Post by soccergurl on May 13, 2021 21:00:17 GMT -5
|math no lie, impossible for au to have more than 1,2,3,4 5+ clubs|
|local clubs not pro so no homegrown only college signees|
|that is only signing they can do|
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Post by newposter on May 14, 2021 12:15:46 GMT -5
I choose to not engage in conversation wkth a poster who cannot take the time to put a succinct thought down.
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Post by newposter on May 14, 2021 12:16:05 GMT -5
I choose to not engage in conversation with a poster who cannot take the time to put a succinct thought down.
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Post by soccergurl on May 14, 2021 12:31:15 GMT -5
I choose to not engage in conversation wkth a poster who cannot take the time to put a succinct thought down. |wrong again|
|succinct - maybe you should learn to spell first| |succinct - all my posts are very short and to the point|
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Post by onekickpop on May 15, 2021 21:58:58 GMT -5
This is where it gets interesting -- when you start to see academy players graduating from college - this is where the MLS and USL has it wrong, a team will draft a player to play in the USL because an MLS team might own its rights for the MLS or a player might not get drafted because an MLS club doesn't relinquish their mls rights until very late and the player is left out in the cold. I just don't see players like Jackson Conway playing with the first team as long as Josef is around. I say the same thing for Wolf, this coaching staff has to win, he needs to field a team week to week with the top 11 players, you can't tell me Wolf is a top 11 player on this roster. Assuming his minutes will all be with the 2s. Not sure whats going on with george campbell, maybe he took a ding and is a little banged up. When healthy I expect to see Machop get minutes. Thanks. It would be great to see more Brenden Aaronsen type stories coming from AU vs watching kids put in the effort and time in the ATL system to only become a local club coach. Of course there is nothing wrong with coaching but I think if you have the staying power to last from youth academy up I’d hope you’d get opportunities beyond that point. |
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on May 15, 2021 22:16:10 GMT -5
What is worrisome for me on the outside looking in is, does AU have a real pathway or plan to address this specific issue? If not, I say don't bother signing homegrowns for show. My question(s) for the incoming AU Academy Director are plentiful, but we'll start with the following. What is your plan to give your stand out academy players real challenges to up their real world experience and soccer intellect? How do you judge who becomes a homegrown, is it to stop them from bolting somewhere else or is it just to fill spots 25-30 with lower priced players that will never see minutes with the first team? Knowing that you are farming the South American landscape, what do you plan to do to give these young lads a chance to prove themselves before their initial minimum contracts expire and then you toss them aside? Are there any plans to use leverage our "partner" in the Scottish Premiership(Aberdeen) to give some of the Academy boys a leg into European Football? Finally, other MLS clubs tend to find a way to push academy players on to teams all over Europe, therefore earning honors and much needed transfer fees for the academy, is that part of the long term plan or is that a pipe-dream killed by the homegrown territory rules... 🙊🙈🙉
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Post by rifle on May 16, 2021 6:33:41 GMT -5
What is worrisome for me on the outside looking in is, does AU have a real pathway or plan to address this specific issue? If not, I say don't bother signing homegrowns for show. My question(s) for the incoming AU Academy Director are plentiful, but we'll start with the following. What is your plan to give your stand out academy players real challenges to up their real world experience and soccer intellect? How do you judge who becomes a homegrown, is it to stop them from bolting somewhere else or is it just to fill spots 25-30 with lower priced players that will never see minutes with the first team? Knowing that you are farming the South American landscape, what do you plan to do to give these young lads a chance to prove themselves before their initial minimum contracts expire and then you toss them aside? Are there any plans to use leverage our "partner" in the Scottish Premiership(Aberdeen) to give some of the Academy boys a leg into European Football? Finally, other MLS clubs tend to find a way to push academy players on to teams all over Europe, therefore earning honors and much needed transfer fees for the academy, is that part of the long term plan or is that a pipe-dream killed by the homegrown territory rules... 🙊🙈🙉 WOW some painful truths in this long paragraph. Great comment. HG status does seem almost like a curse when the same team is spending millions on (young) players like Barco... and when MLS also holds decision making authority to sell players or not. Almost seems insane to sign that deal. MLS with its territory claim rules (for players) and the fed’s similar anti-competitive territory rules for clubs seem setup with a singular purpose: funneling maximum control to the MLS kingdom.
PS: is he injured AGAIN? They’re never gonna be able to sell him... |
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Post by Soccerhouse on May 16, 2021 6:54:12 GMT -5
Controversial topic as well - it always bothered me the salaries of the homegrowns. It’s cheap Labor to complete an mls and usl roster.
A lot of this comes down to the leagues lack of respect for the young domestic player as well.
It comes down to stability as well at the head coaching position. You can’t have a new head coach every other year and expect a good relationship with the academy. That’s another CB failure
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Post by rifle on May 16, 2021 7:10:01 GMT -5
Imagine if thousands of competitive youth soccer clubs had a U23 (for examples) team in a pyramid where anyone can climb and win the whole thing - instead of just gatekeepers...
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on May 17, 2021 8:54:46 GMT -5
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