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Post by footymane on May 17, 2021 6:59:59 GMT -5
Whitefield County, up in the Northwest corner of GA, had 3 teams on the boys side win GHSA State Championships this year. Dalton won 6A again this year going undefeated. Southeast Whitefield won 4A while also going undefeated. Coahulla Creek beat Westminster in the final to take home the 3 championship.
The Dalton area has been thriving on the boys side for quite a few years now and it does not seem to be letting up anytime soon. Dalton has arguably been the best team in all classifications for years now. Not only are they winning championships, but they are putting guys into college and doing so without majority of their players playing club out of metro Atlanta. The Gainesville area has had similar success with teams like Johnson, Gainesville, and East Hall recently.
These mainly Hispanic communities have been playing a great style of soccer that has proven to be successful without the club structure that metro Atlanta has. It is great to see these areas bring a different style to soccer here in Georgia and have great success. Also, the fan bases from these areas have been second to none.
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Post by soccerloafer on May 17, 2021 7:10:39 GMT -5
The players being an average of 2 years older than their birth certificates certainly helps. We played the Dalton boys several years ago. It was pretty obvious.
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Post by footymane on May 17, 2021 7:30:12 GMT -5
To assume that they are 2 years older is ridiculous and ignorant.
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Post by soccerloafer on May 17, 2021 7:54:26 GMT -5
To assume that they are 2 years older is ridiculous and ignorant. You're right. They could have been older. I was being generous. Not all of them, but many of the key players. Look, it happens, whether the kids know it or not. Fact of life. To pretend it doesn't is ignorant. We had friends adopt a kid from Africa. When he hit full on puberty at '10' they realized his birth certificate was fiction. Good kid, great family, no one to blame here. |
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Post by bolo on May 17, 2021 8:23:37 GMT -5
It's Whitfield, not Whitefield, just for clarification.
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Post by flix on May 17, 2021 8:43:40 GMT -5
To assume that they are 2 years older is ridiculous and ignorant. You're right. They could have been older. I was being generous. Not all of them, but many of the key players. Look, it happens, whether the kids know it or not. Fact of life. To pretend it doesn't is ignorant. We had friends adopt a kid from Africa. When he hit full on puberty at '10' they realized his birth certificate was fiction. Good kid, great family, no one to blame here. I’m curious is this just with Hispanics and Africans? Or does anyone also have birth certificate issues also? |
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Post by footymane on May 17, 2021 8:45:13 GMT -5
It's Whitfield, not Whitefield, just for clarification. Thank you. I'm used to saying "the Dalton area" but not all of them are from Dalton. |
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Post by bogan on May 17, 2021 8:56:07 GMT -5
It's Whitfield, not Whitefield, just for clarification. Thank you. I'm used to saying "the Dalton area" but not all of them are from Dalton. I do enjoy watching teams build out of the back and a Tiqui-taca style of play… Unfortunately-I’m starting to see more and more direct play even from Hispanic teams. Although I generally do see more creativity from them. |
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Post by footymane on May 17, 2021 9:08:58 GMT -5
To assume that they are 2 years older is ridiculous and ignorant. You're right. They could have been older. I was being generous. Not all of them, but many of the key players. Look, it happens, whether the kids know it or not. Fact of life. To pretend it doesn't is ignorant. We had friends adopt a kid from Africa. When he hit full on puberty at '10' they realized his birth certificate was fiction. Good kid, great family, no one to blame here. Which of their key players are older than their birth certificate says? I do not believe that these players are older than their birth certificates says. I see many white kids with full beards that look to be 25 years old on almost every team across the state. Yet, no one seems to question these kids. Also, most of these Hispanic kids were born here. Their parents were the ones who came to the United States as children and have now settled into these communities and had kids here in the United States. I know that there are certain instances where this happens, but it is not the norm in these communities and they shouldn't be labeled as such. Your statement seemed very much like "They beat us because they had players that were older". The truth is, that community lives and breathes soccer and the adult leagues prepare these kids at a very young age to play at a level much higher than their age. When they get to high school, they are able to handle the physicality of the game. And their skill across the board is off the charts. For a smaller rural area so far away from Atlanta, and one where resources are limited, they have established themselves as one of the best soccer communities not just in GA, but anywhere in the southeast. Their success should be applauded and recognized, not put down. |
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Post by footymane on May 17, 2021 9:14:20 GMT -5
Thank you. I'm used to saying "the Dalton area" but not all of them are from Dalton. I do enjoy watching teams build out of the back and a Tiqui-taca style of play… Unfortunately-I’m starting to see more and more direct play even from Hispanic teams. Although I generally do see more creativity from them. Part of this is because high school games are played on football fields, smaller than regulation size, and there is no substitute limit. Due to this, the angles and space are smaller. The game is changing and so many teams are pressing very high with numbers. If teams press with 6-7 players high up the field, it is simply a numbers game. If the game was played on a true regulation size field, teams would not be able to press with speed and physicality in the same manner. With unlimited subs, teams can send players in every 10-15 minutes to press at full speed and sub them out with fresh legs. |
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Post by bogan on May 17, 2021 9:23:49 GMT -5
I do enjoy watching teams build out of the back and a Tiqui-taca style of play… Unfortunately-I’m starting to see more and more direct play even from Hispanic teams. Although I generally do see more creativity from them. Part of this is because high school games are played on football fields, smaller than regulation size, and there is no substitute limit. Due to this, the angles and space are smaller. The game is changing and so many teams are pressing very high with numbers. If teams press with 6-7 players high up the field, it is simply a numbers game. If the game was played on a true regulation size field, teams would not be able to press with speed and physicality in the same manner. With unlimited subs, teams can send players in every 10-15 minutes to press at full speed and sub them out with fresh legs. This is true-it’s a track meet. |
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Post by footymane on May 17, 2021 11:26:33 GMT -5
Part of this is because high school games are played on football fields, smaller than regulation size, and there is no substitute limit. Due to this, the angles and space are smaller. The game is changing and so many teams are pressing very high with numbers. If teams press with 6-7 players high up the field, it is simply a numbers game. If the game was played on a true regulation size field, teams would not be able to press with speed and physicality in the same manner. With unlimited subs, teams can send players in every 10-15 minutes to press at full speed and sub them out with fresh legs. This is true-it’s a track meet. Don't get me started on the long throws in high school. Another by-product of the field size. So many teams just play extremely direct and try to force throw ins in the opponents half. It has become a style of play that most teams have adopted. |
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Post by GameOfThrow-ins on May 17, 2021 12:48:50 GMT -5
Coach Lasso:
Small field, big field, track meet, build from the back, long balls, 100-take tik-tok video skills...whatever works!
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Post by footymane on May 17, 2021 13:05:00 GMT -5
Coach Lasso: Small field, big field, track meet, build from the back, long balls, 100-take tik-tok video skills...whatever works! I agree! High school coaches are ultimately trying to win games. You have to adjust to what produces. I say this just as a side note to the field size that most high schools play on. With larger, full size fields, we would see less of this. Football fields are much better than no fields! |
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Post by bogan on May 17, 2021 13:08:10 GMT -5
Coach Lasso: Small field, big field, track meet, build from the back, long balls, 100-take tik-tok video skills...whatever works! I agree! High school coaches are ultimately trying to win games. You have to adjust to what produces. I say this just as a side note to the field size that most high schools play on. With larger, full size fields, we would see less of this. Football fields are much better than no fields! Yeah, but it is a shame -we have the talent to play good looking soccer. |
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Post by liverpoolfc on May 17, 2021 13:18:13 GMT -5
The players being an average of 2 years older than their birth certificates certainly helps. We played the Dalton boys several years ago. It was pretty obvious. come on now, this is so outrageous to assume they are older because they are playing well. Let me say, if these teams are full of Caucasians, i wonder if you would say what u just proclaimed... just wondering |
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Post by soccerloafer on May 17, 2021 14:55:39 GMT -5
You're right. They could have been older. I was being generous. Not all of them, but many of the key players. Look, it happens, whether the kids know it or not. Fact of life. To pretend it doesn't is ignorant. We had friends adopt a kid from Africa. When he hit full on puberty at '10' they realized his birth certificate was fiction. Good kid, great family, no one to blame here. I’m curious is this just with Hispanics and Africans? Or does anyone also have birth certificate issues also? I wouldn't put a skin color / race on it. It's an immigration issue - when documenation is scarce and travel is not always by normal means - paperwork gets lost and recreated outside of official channels. The two incidents I mentioned happened to be Hispanic and African, meant to be descriptive rather than negative / discriminatory. It's situational, not racial. |
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Post by bolo on May 17, 2021 14:58:25 GMT -5
I do enjoy watching teams build out of the back and a Tiqui-taca style of play… Unfortunately-I’m starting to see more and more direct play even from Hispanic teams. Although I generally do see more creativity from them. Part of this is because high school games are played on football fields, smaller than regulation size, and there is no substitute limit. Due to this, the angles and space are smaller. The game is changing and so many teams are pressing very high with numbers. If teams press with 6-7 players high up the field, it is simply a numbers game. If the game was played on a true regulation size field, teams would not be able to press with speed and physicality in the same manner. With unlimited subs, teams can send players in every 10-15 minutes to press at full speed and sub them out with fresh legs. How much smaller are these football fields than optimum or regulation size? I assuming you're talking about width, as opposed to length, because football fields are 120 yards in length for soccer if the goals are placed along the back line of the end zones, which they always are in my experience. Now, a football field is only 53 yards wide, but I've rarely ever seen that be the width of those fields when used for soccer. Typically there is an additional 5-8 yards outside the football sideline on each side, bringing the total width to between 63 & 69 yards wide. FIFA says that for international matches, fields have to be between 110-120 yards long & 70-80 yards wide. So they're really not that far off. Yes, it would be ideal to have another 8-10 yards of width on these fields, but it's not like they're playing in a hallway. |
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Post by mightydawg on May 17, 2021 15:17:03 GMT -5
I would say that most (not all) high school football stadium fields are 60 yards wide. Some will be 65 yards wide. An extra 10 yards wide in decent amount of territory that has to be covered.
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Post by bogan on May 17, 2021 15:22:11 GMT -5
I would say that most (not all) high school football stadium fields are 60 yards wide. Some will be 65 yards wide. An extra 10 yards wide in decent amount of territory that has to be covered. For me, the field is less of an issue than the sub rules. I’ve watched incredible soccer played on dirt fields-but with the “sub as much as you want “ rules there is very little game management from a players perspective. |
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Post by bolo on May 17, 2021 15:43:47 GMT -5
I would say that most (not all) high school football stadium fields are 60 yards wide. Some will be 65 yards wide. An extra 10 yards wide in decent amount of territory that has to be covered. For me, the field is less of an issue than the sub rules. I’ve watched incredible soccer played on dirt fields-but with the “sub as much as you want “ rules there is very little game management from a players perspective. The unlimited sub rule doesn't bother me at all for high school soccer. You've got kids out there trying to PLAY for their school, friends, community, etc. Let them have the chance to play, even if it's only for 5-10 minutes of the game. You don't see people calling for limits on subs in football or basketball, and sometimes in those sports you have players that come in for a few plays or a few possessions here & there. Why should soccer be any different? And I understand that the rules are different in the professional ranks, and even at the ECNL level, and honestly I don't love those rules either (for any youth games, not college or professional), but I get it a little more in those contexts. |
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Post by bogan on May 17, 2021 15:50:38 GMT -5
For me, the field is less of an issue than the sub rules. I’ve watched incredible soccer played on dirt fields-but with the “sub as much as you want “ rules there is very little game management from a players perspective. The unlimited sub rule doesn't bother me at all for high school soccer. You've got kids out there trying to PLAY for their school, friends, community, etc. Let them have the chance to play, even if it's only for 5-10 minutes of the game. You don't see people calling for limits on subs in football or basketball, and sometimes in those sports you have players that come in for a few plays or a few possessions here & there. Why should soccer be any different? And I understand that the rules are different in the professional ranks, and even at the ECNL level, and honestly I don't love those rules either (for any youth games, not college or professional), but I get it a little more in those contexts. I suppose so-but I’m not the biggest high school soccer fan (see my previous posts) anyway. |
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Post by GameOfThrow-ins on May 17, 2021 16:23:06 GMT -5
Who cares about age! Dalton plays in a crap region, only plays one decent out of region team, has a stupid, should-be-illegal home field advantage, mercy-ruled a third of the teams they played this year, and barely got by real teams Riverwood (with just a bunch of sophomores) and Johns Creek. Put them in an actual region and see where they end up year in and year out. All hype, not that good. Both Riverwood and Johns Creek are better - just didn’t get the bounces this year. Dalton is done.
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Post by bogan on May 17, 2021 16:56:26 GMT -5
Who cares about age! Dalton plays in a crap region, only plays one decent out of region team, has a stupid, should-be-illegal home field advantage, mercy-ruled a third of the teams they played this year, and barely got by real teams Riverwood (with just a bunch of sophomores) and Johns Creek. Put them in an actual region and see where they end up year in and year out. All hype, not that good. Both Riverwood and Johns Creek are better - just didn’t get the bounces this year. Dalton is done. That’s many if not most of the regions, unfortunately… |
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Post by mightydawg on May 17, 2021 17:02:52 GMT -5
For me, the field is less of an issue than the sub rules. I’ve watched incredible soccer played on dirt fields-but with the “sub as much as you want “ rules there is very little game management from a players perspective. The unlimited sub rule doesn't bother me at all for high school soccer. You've got kids out there trying to PLAY for their school, friends, community, etc. Let them have the chance to play, even if it's only for 5-10 minutes of the game. You don't see people calling for limits on subs in football or basketball, and sometimes in those sports you have players that come in for a few plays or a few possessions here & there. Why should soccer be any different? And I understand that the rules are different in the professional ranks, and even at the ECNL level, and honestly I don't love those rules either (for any youth games, not college or professional), but I get it a little more in those contexts. Different sports have different subbing rules. Comparing subbing in soccer to subbing in basketball and football makes little sense. Why not compare it to baseball where if you come out of the game, you can't re-enter? In soccer, game management is part of the sport. Using the U15 and up rules of once you come off for the half you can't re-enter in that half, would be the perfect compromise. |
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Post by footymane on May 18, 2021 9:06:15 GMT -5
Who cares about age! Dalton plays in a crap region, only plays one decent out of region team, has a stupid, should-be-illegal home field advantage, mercy-ruled a third of the teams they played this year, and barely got by real teams Riverwood (with just a bunch of sophomores) and Johns Creek. Put them in an actual region and see where they end up year in and year out. All hype, not that good. Both Riverwood and Johns Creek are better - just didn’t get the bounces this year. Dalton is done. Many teams play in bad regions. There is nothing that they can do about that. They consistently schedule some of the toughest teams from Alabama/Tennessee and have faired extremely well against them. Because of Dalton's location, they can't be expected to travel to Atlanta to play every non-region game, and most teams don't want to travel to them. Since the 2013 season, they have a record of 166-8-5 with 5 state championships. During that span, they are 4-0 against McIntosh, who also has won 5 state championships in the same time frame. What is this "should-be-illegal" home field advantage that you bring up? How someone could bash the Dalton program after their success over the past decade is beyond me. I do not live anywhere near Dalton, nor do I have any rooting interest in the program. But it would be foolish to recognize what that program and area has accomplished as anything but spectacular. |
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