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Post by soccerparent02 on Sept 19, 2021 11:22:07 GMT -5
Kid played on top ECNL Club team. Kid enjoyed ODP time as it was extra practice. Most of the players that went to Alabama were from his ECNL team so they got extra practice time. They also had the last 3 years of training at the Atlanta United training center so facilities were great. Coach team had was also top notch. Great experience!
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Post by atlantasoccerdad2020 on Sept 24, 2021 12:49:16 GMT -5
Yeah, I’m trying to understand your point. Players in some states prioritize ODP more than Georgia, some less. Pickup games are great too (as long as they keep away from injury) - I like to see kids organizing them on their own. It’s prioritized in other places because they may not have the availability to the top level leagues |
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Post by atlantasoccerdad2020 on Sept 24, 2021 12:56:19 GMT -5
|ODP SUCKS| |ODP waste of time| |no nat'l team call-up 4 ODP| One benefit is that if your kid is good enough they get exposure to positions they may not otherwise get to play since ODP is forward heavy and some of those players can’t play anywhere else. I’ve seen some kids selected before that made me scratch my head as they had no business on a field much less a top team like an ODP. Have also noticed over the years ODP is a good place for non top tier players to showcase their skills. |
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Post by baller84 on Sept 26, 2021 22:12:03 GMT -5
We have screwed up youth soccer nationally.
ODP is no exception and actually -believe it or not- Georgia ODP is among the better states.
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Post by Keeper on Sept 27, 2021 12:07:01 GMT -5
We have screwed up youth soccer nationally. ODP is no exception and actually -believe it or not- Georgia ODP is among the better states. Not so sure about that. Florida, Alabama, and South Carolina all have better programs. Might not be better players but programs are run and operated a whole lot better. |
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Post by baller84 on Sept 27, 2021 19:55:18 GMT -5
We have screwed up youth soccer nationally. ODP is no exception and actually -believe it or not- Georgia ODP is among the better states. Not so sure about that. Florida, Alabama, and South Carolina all have better programs. Might not be better players but programs are run and operated a whole lot better. Totally disagree. Alabama has been not existent the last two years, and South Carolina has little to organize as they can barely field teams let alone quality. As for Florida that's a completely different animal and a whole other conversation. Would you care to elaborate on how exactly those programs are any better? |
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Post by Keeper on Sept 28, 2021 0:21:24 GMT -5
Not so sure about that. Florida, Alabama, and South Carolina all have better programs. Might not be better players but programs are run and operated a whole lot better. Totally disagree. Alabama has been not existent the last two years, and South Carolina has little to organize as they can barely field teams let alone quality. As for Florida that's a completely different animal and a whole other conversation. Would you care to elaborate on how exactly those programs are any better? They are run by quality coaches and a whole lot less political. AL and SC might not have better players but the programs themselves are a whole lot better. Majority of coaches are college level or have little to zero conflict of interest with those clubs so they can focus on developing players and teams. I would take Kevin Laux from AL or Thad Miller from SC over Jacob Daniels and Kostas any day of the week. |
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Post by atlutd17 on Sept 28, 2021 7:21:36 GMT -5
Comparing GA to SC or AL is comparing apples and oranges. None of them good enough. There is quality in GA. My beef with ODP is two issues that hold the program back: - Too many mediocre players were selected last year. Given the quality (or lack of) there should be no more than 36-40 players, yet there were groups with over 50 last year which is ridiculous. Some top players lost interest and did not return because of it and someone needs to tell Kostas that. Coaching staff was short which brings me to my next point.
- The exclusion of ECNL/US Club coaches is political and a huge mistake. With the numbers in players they seem to want to maintain, ODP needs more quality coaches that can't be found anywhere else. I'm certain these coaches will attract more quality players as well.
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Post by mightydawg on Sept 28, 2021 8:22:17 GMT -5
Comparing GA to SC or AL is comparing apples and oranges. None of them good enough. There is quality in GA. My beef with ODP is two issues that hold the program back: - Too many mediocre players were selected last year. Given the quality (or lack of) there should be no more than 36-40 players, yet there were groups with over 50 last year which is ridiculous. Some top players lost interest and did not return because of it and someone needs to tell Kostas that. Coaching staff was short which brings me to my next point.
- The exclusion of ECNL/US Club coaches is political and a huge mistake. With the numbers in players they seem to want to maintain, ODP needs more quality coaches that can't be found anywhere else. I'm certain these coaches will attract more quality players as well.
The thing that I don't understand about ODP is that if want to make it elite, why is the pool for the age group any bigger than 25 to 30 players (big enough so that you can still scrimmage even if some kids miss training or games). There is really no reason to have multiple teams per age group. Select the best 25 to 30 players and let them compete in training to be in the top 18 for matches. Take the top 18 to matches against the top 18 from other states. |
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Post by justwatching on Sept 28, 2021 9:05:19 GMT -5
Comparing GA to SC or AL is comparing apples and oranges. None of them good enough. There is quality in GA. My beef with ODP is two issues that hold the program back: - Too many mediocre players were selected last year. Given the quality (or lack of) there should be no more than 36-40 players, yet there were groups with over 50 last year which is ridiculous. Some top players lost interest and did not return because of it and someone needs to tell Kostas that. Coaching staff was short which brings me to my next point.
- The exclusion of ECNL/US Club coaches is political and a huge mistake. With the numbers in players they seem to want to maintain, ODP needs more quality coaches that can't be found anywhere else. I'm certain these coaches will attract more quality players as well.
The thing that I don't understand about ODP is that if want to make it elite, why is the pool for the age group any bigger than 25 to 30 players (big enough so that you can still scrimmage even if some kids miss training or games). There is really no reason to have multiple teams per age group. Select the best 25 to 30 players and let them compete in training to be in the top 18 for matches. Take the top 18 to matches against the top 18 from other states. They would have much better participation and retention if that happened. More top players would be attracted. Trainings and matches would be worth going to then. It's tough to commit to ODP whole heartedly when the ODP pool is significantly worse than your club team. Unless you just go to have fun or for future events like ID camps, etc. |
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Post by soccernoleuk on Sept 28, 2021 10:28:06 GMT -5
Comparing GA to SC or AL is comparing apples and oranges. None of them good enough. There is quality in GA. My beef with ODP is two issues that hold the program back: - Too many mediocre players were selected last year. Given the quality (or lack of) there should be no more than 36-40 players, yet there were groups with over 50 last year which is ridiculous. Some top players lost interest and did not return because of it and someone needs to tell Kostas that. Coaching staff was short which brings me to my next point.
- The exclusion of ECNL/US Club coaches is political and a huge mistake. With the numbers in players they seem to want to maintain, ODP needs more quality coaches that can't be found anywhere else. I'm certain these coaches will attract more quality players as well.
I'll jump into this and share my thoughts based on what I have seen and heard, based on being an ODP family. 1. I agree too many mediocre players have been selected. Unfortunately they really don't have a choice given the way they manage the roster(s). States such as Tennessee & Florida have enough players for 2 teams, so Georgia tries to do the same. The goal of the coaches is to have enough players on each roster to play the first 11 the first half, then sub the next 11 on for the second half (22 players per roster). We were told up front the goal was to showcase as many players as possible. So, if you were there to play an entire game, or most of a game, you were going to be disappointed. 2. I agree more quality coaches are needed, and the inclusion of ECNL / US Club coaches would be great. I am not 100% sure it is entirely GA Soccer that is excluding them. I have heard clubs prohibiting their coaches from being ODP coaches, just like those same ECNL / US Club coaches prohibit their players from playing. As for the comment by someone else about limiting the roster to about 25 - 30 players, I don't think this would work. The main reason is you would almost never have 22 at a training session and thus never be able to scrimmage. The reason is most training sessions are on Friday night or Sunday night. A lot of the players who play games on Sunday do not come to the Sunday night sessions. Additionally, if a player has 2 games over the weekend, they typically skip Friday and/or Sunday sessions. Last year in our age group we had nights were we had just over 50% of the rostered players attend training sessions. Personally I think ODP can be a lot more than it currently is. Exactly how GA Soccer gets it there is above my pay grade. Based on the overall environment, and relationship between GA Soccer and the big clubs, I don't know that it can ever get back to what it should be. |
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Post by Keeper on Sept 28, 2021 14:39:29 GMT -5
Comparing GA to SC or AL is comparing apples and oranges. None of them good enough. There is quality in GA. My beef with ODP is two issues that hold the program back: - Too many mediocre players were selected last year. Given the quality (or lack of) there should be no more than 36-40 players, yet there were groups with over 50 last year which is ridiculous. Some top players lost interest and did not return because of it and someone needs to tell Kostas that. Coaching staff was short which brings me to my next point.
- The exclusion of ECNL/US Club coaches is political and a huge mistake. With the numbers in players they seem to want to maintain, ODP needs more quality coaches that can't be found anywhere else. I'm certain these coaches will attract more quality players as well.
The thing that I don't understand about ODP is that if want to make it elite, why is the pool for the age group any bigger than 25 to 30 players (big enough so that you can still scrimmage even if some kids miss training or games). There is really no reason to have multiple teams per age group. Select the best 25 to 30 players and let them compete in training to be in the top 18 for matches. Take the top 18 to matches against the top 18 from other states. One reason for large pools. MONEY! Odp is pay to play and money is the only reason they do anything. |
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Post by soccernotfootball on Sept 28, 2021 16:21:12 GMT -5
Comparing GA to SC or AL is comparing apples and oranges. None of them good enough. There is quality in GA. My beef with ODP is two issues that hold the program back: - Too many mediocre players were selected last year. Given the quality (or lack of) there should be no more than 36-40 players, yet there were groups with over 50 last year which is ridiculous. Some top players lost interest and did not return because of it and someone needs to tell Kostas that. Coaching staff was short which brings me to my next point.
- The exclusion of ECNL/US Club coaches is political and a huge mistake. With the numbers in players they seem to want to maintain, ODP needs more quality coaches that can't be found anywhere else. I'm certain these coaches will attract more quality players as well.
^ Truth. There's no reason to have more numbers than to field just 2 teams. They can scrimmage and you can mix and match to play your games. Not only are they losing top players due to the reasons above... but now the overall pool will be more mediocre because of this. One quick fix would be to make it less of an outright money-grab as another poster stated. But we know that won't happen because there's no way they will leave money on the table to only carry two quality teams. Everyone is "elite" and you get the jersey and backpack to prove it! |
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Post by soccerparent02 on Sept 28, 2021 17:31:27 GMT -5
No ECNL coaches must be new as our kids coach for the last 2 years was a CF ECNL coach. While kid wasnt at CF and at another Big 5 club, coach did a great job and kid was very pleased with the coaching and development. As far as numbers go because club takes precidence over ODP, they need a large pool to ensure there are enough players for practice. Ultimately, the top players are pretty obvious especially at older ages. After u15, the pool was 36 with a few kids added and 3 goalies.
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Post by justwatching on Sept 29, 2021 9:06:43 GMT -5
As far as numbers go because club takes precidence over ODP, they need a large pool to ensure there are enough players for practice. . If ODP could become what it is truly intended to be and attract the best players with good coaching who is to say ODP wouldn't/shouldn't take precedence over club? Once you get to ODP Regional ID Camps and National ID camps players are likely/potentially choosing ODP over club. If you have a group of the top 25 - 32 players in the state in every age group for your pool and the best 18 rostered for matches the priority changes in my opinion because for most players the level becomes higher than what the players are typically exposed to at their club which creates a valuable experience for the individual player development. |
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Post by justwatching on Sept 29, 2021 9:31:33 GMT -5
ODP could be a lot more in my opinion if they treated it like a YNT selection process. Obviously, you need ways to fund it outside of the players' fees but create a network of scouts (not affiliated with clubs) for the state and evaluate players at club trainings, in matches, in tournaments, etc. and invite them to the program (everyone likes to be invited to something). Have a very very nominal to no cost structure for the training. Start the program at U15. Get buy-in from the clubs so your program is supported (have to provide a higher or equal value than what the club can in order for this to happen e.g. college exposure, high level training, etc.). Have some trainings/events on college campuses e.g. UGA, GA State, KSU, etc. with college coaching staff running the sessions. Value to the college (and players' club) easy recruiting tool.
ODP will have to think outside of the box and stop doing it the way it has always been done to get it to a point where people see significant value and get the best of the best each year.
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Post by 0507coop23dad on Sept 29, 2021 10:13:22 GMT -5
As far as numbers go because club takes precidence over ODP, they need a large pool to ensure there are enough players for practice. . If ODP could become what it is truly intended to be and attract the best players with good coaching who is to say ODP wouldn't/shouldn't take precedence over club? Once you get to ODP Regional ID Camps and National ID camps players are likely/potentially choosing ODP over club. If you have a group of the top 25 - 32 players in the state in every age group for your pool and the best 18 rostered for matches the priority changes in my opinion because for most players the level becomes higher than what the players are typically exposed to at their club which creates a valuable experience for the individual player development. And on top of all that, junior year is just too busy for ODP for the ECNL/HS player. In addition to soccer scheduling conflicts, junior year is the most important academically, it’s when SATs and ACTs are studied for and taken, when you have to keep every free winter and spring weekend open for college ID sessions, or you just need recovery and rejuvenation time. |
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Post by baller84 on Sept 29, 2021 12:55:45 GMT -5
ODP could be a lot more in my opinion if they treated it like a YNT selection process. Obviously, you need ways to fund it outside of the players' fees but create a network of scouts (not affiliated with clubs) for the state and evaluate players at club trainings, in matches, in tournaments, etc. and invite them to the program (everyone likes to be invited to something). Have a very very nominal to no cost structure for the training. Start the program at U15. Get buy-in from the clubs so your program is supported (have to provide a higher or equal value than what the club can in order for this to happen e.g. college exposure, high level training, etc.). Have some trainings/events on college campuses e.g. UGA, GA State, KSU, etc. with college coaching staff running the sessions. Value to the college (and players' club) easy recruiting tool. ODP will have to think outside of the box and stop doing it the way it has always been done to get it to a point where people see significant value and get the best of the best each year. I agree ODP has to become something special in quality and also quantity. But they can't afford 25-30 player rosters, unless ODP charges players more or finds coaches for free. IMO neither is right, and that's where sponsors and fundraisers become important. |
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Post by justwatching on Sept 29, 2021 15:44:51 GMT -5
ODP could be a lot more in my opinion if they treated it like a YNT selection process. Obviously, you need ways to fund it outside of the players' fees but create a network of scouts (not affiliated with clubs) for the state and evaluate players at club trainings, in matches, in tournaments, etc. and invite them to the program (everyone likes to be invited to something). Have a very very nominal to no cost structure for the training. Start the program at U15. Get buy-in from the clubs so your program is supported (have to provide a higher or equal value than what the club can in order for this to happen e.g. college exposure, high level training, etc.). Have some trainings/events on college campuses e.g. UGA, GA State, KSU, etc. with college coaching staff running the sessions. Value to the college (and players' club) easy recruiting tool. ODP will have to think outside of the box and stop doing it the way it has always been done to get it to a point where people see significant value and get the best of the best each year. I agree ODP has to become something special in quality and also quantity. But they can't afford 25-30 player rosters, unless ODP charges players more or finds coaches for free. IMO neither is right, and that's where sponsors and fundraisers become important. They need to find ways to not have the players pay for it if they want it to be "special". Keep paying to play and the state level doesn't get much different than what it is, just extra practices with different kids and different coaches. Also there is nothing that says that ODP has to be as much training as it is. That would cut costs right there. Change the focal point from development to identification. More stringent identification creates a higher level of selection. Higher level of selection increases interest in a higher level player and allows for higher caliber of training. Move away from a player development model that is in reality a revenue generator. Let the clubs develop the players and ODP's job to identify a select few. I think the Regional ID camps are great examples of what the state level could do. Invitation based on performance at ODP training and friendlies (substitute this with club trainings and games and an invitation to state ODP camps). Groups of players training over a few day period with the sole purpose of identification. Kids weeded out and placed in higher level training environments to narrow the player pool more until a group is formed as what is considered the best in the region to represent it (this could be how the state ODP team is formed). There is no training for the Region Pool other than when they come together one time to compete against other Regions. State ODP doesn't have to look just like the Region camp but to me the value of that camp was far greater than anything my kids got from the year of training at ODP. It had college coaches coaching the kids (several big D1 schools) and the player pool was selective especially as you got to pool games. I would be very surprised if any kids there felt like the the training at ODP helped their skill, tactical awareness, etc. to have them prepared for the camp. That was all done by the club training and/or any individual training the players do. So I think ODP's efforts at the state level is just in the wrong place and needs to be shifted. |
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Post by Keeper on Sept 30, 2021 10:18:03 GMT -5
ODP could be a lot more in my opinion if they treated it like a YNT selection process. Obviously, you need ways to fund it outside of the players' fees but create a network of scouts (not affiliated with clubs) for the state and evaluate players at club trainings, in matches, in tournaments, etc. and invite them to the program (everyone likes to be invited to something). Have a very very nominal to no cost structure for the training. Start the program at U15. Get buy-in from the clubs so your program is supported (have to provide a higher or equal value than what the club can in order for this to happen e.g. college exposure, high level training, etc.). Have some trainings/events on college campuses e.g. UGA, GA State, KSU, etc. with college coaching staff running the sessions. Value to the college (and players' club) easy recruiting tool. ODP will have to think outside of the box and stop doing it the way it has always been done to get it to a point where people see significant value and get the best of the best each year. I agree ODP has to become something special in quality and also quantity. But they can't afford 25-30 player rosters, unless ODP charges players more or finds coaches for free. IMO neither is right, and that's where sponsors and fundraisers become important. Pre SCCL / Pre Covid GASoccer had a surplus of millions of dollars in their bank accounts. I think the 50th anniversary Gala they were planning had like a $1 million budget or something obscene since it was only for the top hob Nobel. They had plenty of money to pay coaches and costs without charging players another $500 each year. They could also up their player/club fees like $1 overall so all GaSoccer players pay for the odp program. Of course this only worked when GaSoccer was larger then SCCL. Now they say USClub players have to pay that GaSoccer tax but in two years of odp we never did for our ECNL player, while others I know did. All money and politics. |
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Post by soccerparent02 on Oct 7, 2021 6:50:10 GMT -5
The nominal cost of ODP is worth it for the training. The Region Camp cost also was nominal considering the training and experiences.
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