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Post by 0507coop23dad on Sept 26, 2021 15:55:44 GMT -5
What the H-E-Double Hockey Sticks happened?!
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Post by soccerfam404 on Sept 26, 2021 20:47:49 GMT -5
Is there a story here?
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Post by 0507coop23dad on Sept 26, 2021 22:57:16 GMT -5
Red cards flying GSA’s way (head coach and 2 players), and a couple of refs possibly let go. I don’t know the details, but GSA’s U17B disaster season continues. Anyone there that knows the whole story?
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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 27, 2021 7:39:15 GMT -5
Assuming final was Concorde over GSA?
Anyone know where all the old DA refs are officiating now? are they doing MLS next games vs ECNL games?
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Post by 0507coop23dad on Sept 27, 2021 8:40:52 GMT -5
I’m just wondering what has to happen for refs to get fired, if true? Yeah, playing with 9 and no coach GSA lost 0-3.
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Post by mightydawg on Sept 27, 2021 8:42:34 GMT -5
I’m just wondering what has to happen for refs to get fired, if true? Yeah, playing with 9 and no coach GSA lost 0-3. Go against the home team, who is hiring them. |
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Post by 0507coop23dad on Sept 27, 2021 8:56:26 GMT -5
I’m just wondering what has to happen for refs to get fired, if true? Yeah, playing with 9 and no coach GSA lost 0-3. Go against the home team, who is hiring them. I heard refs were yelling and cussing directly at the GSA players. Everyone knows you have to beat your opponent and the refs at Alabama and UFA, so this one is a head scratcher! |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Sept 27, 2021 9:09:18 GMT -5
Go against the home team, who is hiring them. I heard refs were yelling and cussing directly at the GSA players. Everyone knows you have to beat your opponent and the refs at Alabama and UFA, so this one is a head scratcher! Referee shortage seems to be really bad right now. Every game my 9v9 kid plays has been without a full crew. The refs we have had have been very inexperienced and in many cases afraid to make calls. Opposing coaches and parents have been going nuts at the lack of calls (we have a very aggressive defender who looks like she is playing rugby instead of soccer when she physically contacts a player) or nuts at calls that go against them. This just makes these refs more uncertain and scared. My older kid is certified and the number of emails that we get each week is ridiculous. Unfortunately the league game schedule does not really allow for any time to ref now. Games are usually at 11 or 1 and both days of the weekend so given travel time, warm up time and eating plus school assignments there is no time to ref while playing in the fall. |
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Post by Shesakeeper on Sept 27, 2021 9:34:54 GMT -5
Same here, my daughter has 2 assignors and both have been emailing constantly begging refs to pick up even one game. Academy games are going without full crews every weekend and she said there are a lot of young, poorly trained refs out there. It takes a LOT right now to get let go so if that's true of those refs, it must have been bad. I heard refs were yelling and cussing directly at the GSA players. Everyone knows you have to beat your opponent and the refs at Alabama and UFA, so this one is a head scratcher! Referee shortage seems to be really bad right now. Every game my 9v9 kid plays has been without a full crew. The refs we have had have been very inexperienced and in many cases afraid to make calls. Opposing coaches and parents have been going nuts at the lack of calls (we have a very aggressive defender who looks like she is playing rugby instead of soccer when she physically contacts a player) or nuts at calls that go against them. This just makes these refs more uncertain and scared. My older kid is certified and the number of emails that we get each week is ridiculous. Unfortunately the league game schedule does not really allow for any time to ref now. Games are usually at 11 or 1 and both days of the weekend so given travel time, warm up time and eating plus school assignments there is no time to ref while playing in the fall. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 27, 2021 9:37:57 GMT -5
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Sept 27, 2021 10:15:40 GMT -5
That was an absolutely disgusting move by that parent/coach/fan. Then we wonder why refs don't make calls, are scared to make the tough calls or refuse to ref any longer. Coaches, parents, clubs and the adults around youth soccer have perpetuated this kind of behavior. When my kids would ref years ago, myself and other ref parents would take turns making sure we were on hand to watch and monitor every game they refed. Why, because of just this type of parent. You go after my kid, even if you're built like an ox, you better believe the second amendment creeps in very quickly for me to defend my kid and myself. Personally, I think there should be zero tolerance for this type of shizat, he should be charged with assault and his kid banned from playing in that league for the rest of the season. He can sit at home and look his kid in the eye and explain why he felt so compelled to act like a petulant little brat...(stepping off soapbox now)
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Post by 0507coop23dad on Sept 27, 2021 10:51:57 GMT -5
Yes, we can go on for days about parents and coaches. I’m wondering what transpired in the GSA/CF Platinum game because I’ve never heard of refs doing anything that would even approach their dismissal.
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Post by soccerdad76 on Sept 27, 2021 22:28:05 GMT -5
I keep wondering when I’ll see for the first time where the ref just exits stage right in the middle of the game. Some of them put up with more than I’d be willing to take... even if they do suck 😜
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Post by halfvolley on Sept 28, 2021 5:56:12 GMT -5
There was a controversial handball non-call that could of been a PK, in which GSA Coach had some choice words towards AR/Ref. It was enough to have him out of the game. The second was just an awful tackle with two feet and studs up. The last a player was mouthing off with foul language and referee tossed him out.
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Post by notcrazysoccerdad on Sept 28, 2021 6:44:26 GMT -5
I keep wondering when I’ll see for the first time where the ref just exits stage right in the middle of the game. Some of them put up with more than I’d be willing to take... even if they do suck 😜 It's bound to happen eventually. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 28, 2021 7:17:23 GMT -5
I've seen it happen twice -- center ref walked off during the game and didn't return.
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Post by soccerguru on Sept 28, 2021 8:04:33 GMT -5
FG, out of all the Incredible posts and contributions you have made, that one has a little hot sauce added!!!
That parents reaction has no place in the Beautiful game!
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Post by mightydawg on Sept 28, 2021 8:16:33 GMT -5
There was a controversial handball non-call that could of been a PK, in which GSA Coach had some choice words towards AR/Ref. It was enough to have him out of the game. The second was just an awful tackle with two feet and studs up. The last a player was mouthing off with foul language and referee tossed him out. With the 2021 change to the handball rule, there seems to be confusion about what is a handball and what is not a handball. The rule is posted below. From what I have seen, referees are trying to determine intent and are focusing on the first part of the rule (moving hand arm toward ball) but are not really paying attention to the second part of the rule (made their body unnaturally bigger). In any event, handballs are now extremely subjective calls because the ref has to make a split second determination of if the player was moving the hand/arm toward the ball or whether the hand/arm makes the body unnaturally bigger and is not a consequence of the player's body movement. We had an embarrassing situation on Saturday where one of the dads went berserk on the ref over the new handball rule. The defender had her arm straight out and was about 2 yards from the attacking player. The attacking player went to cross the ball and the ball hit the defender's outstretched arm. Ref determined that because she did not move the hand to the ball (it was already in that position) no handball. It ended with our coach having to come talk to the parents mid-game to stop yelling at the refs. Players were extremely embarrassed. HANDLING THE BALL For the purposes of determining handball offences, the upper boundary of the arm is in line with the bottom of the armpit. Not every touch of a player’s hand/arm with the ball is an offence. It is an offence if a player: - deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball
- touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised
- scores in the opponents' goal:
- directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
- immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental
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Post by 0507coop23dad on Sept 28, 2021 9:58:38 GMT -5
It’s a strange rule change because this year I’ve seen so many inconsequential handballs called in the midfield that according to this rule should not have been called, and so many very consequential handballs in the box not called that should have been according to the rule. I just have given up on it and hope the calls just even out over the course of the game. Very difficult rule on the refs.
But still, to my point, the red cards on GSA sound like they were perfectly justifiable, so why did 2 refs get sacked? It can’t be just that the home team organization disagreed with those calls - who would ever ref there again if they can’t be impartial without fear of retribution? Anyone have any idea what made the GSA organization freak out other than those calls?
Heck, the same thing happened Saturday at UFA. The CF Platinum U15 ECNL boys were tied with UFA 2-2 and a handball in the box against UFA was not called. With 10 minutes left. That was an outcome determining non-call and the ref even came over and explained the new rule he had just misinterpreted! Ha! Nobody lost their shizzat and the game continued.
As the season goes on and high pressure postseason jockeying starts happening, get ready for more insane coach and parent reactions to seemingly obvious handballs not being called in the box.
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Post by notcrazysoccerdad on Sept 28, 2021 11:16:03 GMT -5
This year's ref recertification training was about 80% related to the new handball rule. Even with a bunch of video examples, what I left with was if the arm isn't extended to make the body bigger, then it is a pretty subjective call. For me, if the arms are inside the body I am almost certainly not going to make a game changing call in the box. If the arms are outside the body but there is no intent, then I make the call only if there is an advantage gained.
I would add that this rule is even harder with younger kids who tend to move in unpredictable and inefficient ways. I have no idea how to define a "natural body movement" by a 12 year old boy!
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Post by 0507coop23dad on Sept 28, 2021 12:02:10 GMT -5
This year's ref recertification training was about 80% related to the new handball rule. Even with a bunch of video examples, what I left with was if the arm isn't extended to make the body bigger, then it is a pretty subjective call. For me, if the arms are inside the body I am almost certainly not going to make a game changing call in the box. If the arms are outside the body but there is no intent, then I make the call only if there is an advantage gained. I would add that this rule is even harder with younger kids who tend to move in unpredictable and inefficient ways. I have no idea how to define a "natural body movement" by a 12 year old boy! That’s the best way to handle it - can’t ask for more than that! I might be wrong, but I seem to remember just 2 or 3 years ago the rule was changed to take refs trying to judge intent completely out of it and I don’t know why they changed it back. If the arm was away from the body a handball was called and if the arm was against the body it wasn’t. Simple. Now the rule reads so that we have players converging on the ball in the box, a defender chests the ball and then deflects it away with his arm and by rule it’s allowed because refs judge there was no reaction time to avoid it. Yet if the same thing happens in the midfield there is an immediate whistle. Like I said, later in the season there will be even more fireworks. But I also think many parents can’t handle it when any play is not called the same way outside the box as it is inside the box when it is most critical. |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Sept 28, 2021 13:43:04 GMT -5
FIFA will have to address this.
IMO they need to give refs the power to call a forfeit for such an offending team (and thus a win for the other team and likely negative points for the offender). These things can be addressed very quickly. Call it the "nuclear option".
IF that was the CF/UFA game right before our game on Saturday, there was a fight or near fight where a player from each team was ejected and a couple near fights between parents. We benefited (sarcasm) from one of the AR's of that game center reffing our game and calling every ticky-tacky bump by our players in the first half and only a couple of UFA's (ref was British or Aussie). No hard feelings...but not called evenly.
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Post by 0507coop23dad on Sept 28, 2021 17:01:26 GMT -5
FIFA will have to address this. IMO they need to give refs the power to call a forfeit for such an offending team (and thus a win for the other team and likely negative points for the offender). These things can be addressed very quickly. Call it the "nuclear option". IF that was the CF/UFA game right before our game on Saturday, there was a fight or near fight where a player from each team was ejected and a couple near fights between parents. We benefited (sarcasm) from one of the AR's of that game center reffing our game and calling every ticky-tacky bump by our players in the first half and only a couple of UFA's (ref was British or Aussie). No hard feelings...but not called evenly. That wasn’t our game - just the typical “come on ref” stuff and the game rolled on. But it is interesting that the same thing happened between the same two clubs in a different game on the same day. The handball non-call issue and other fouls that lead to the 3 red cards was GSA/CF Platinum. |
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Post by Respect on Sept 28, 2021 22:28:29 GMT -5
Have you all considered teaching your kids to defend shots in PA with their arms tucked in to their bodies? Easy technique to learn. And don’t come back to me and state they need their arms stretched out to keep balance.
Having played soccer for many years I know the passing or shooting lane I need to cover to protect against a promising attack. It’s relatively easy to fake natural arm movement just to block the ball.
Instead of arguing if a handball was indeed a foul and trying to figure out how to react next time, we all can do our part if we ask our kids to learn the technique and our coaches to teach it especially when ball is in PA. Nothing different when a coach tells his/her defender not to foul when they see aggressive defending in the PA.
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Post by soccerloafer on Sept 29, 2021 9:00:31 GMT -5
This year's ref recertification training was about 80% related to the new handball rule. Even with a bunch of video examples, what I left with was if the arm isn't extended to make the body bigger, then it is a pretty subjective call. For me, if the arms are inside the body I am almost certainly not going to make a game changing call in the box. If the arms are outside the body but there is no intent, then I make the call only if there is an advantage gained. I would add that this rule is even harder with younger kids who tend to move in unpredictable and inefficient ways. I have no idea how to define a "natural body movement" by a 12 year old boy! And the challenging piece is that a natural body position for girls is different than boys. This was demo'd at a recert several years ago. Had two younger refs (players), boy and girl, come to the front and had them both jump a few times (without telling them why). The arm positions were totally different, boys in closer, girls out further. Both were natural movements with no ball or play involved. I'm really looking at intent - when the ball is blasted into a defender's arm from 5 feet away, what could the defender have done? Tucking the arms behind them while moving backward to jockey an attacker is not feasible, puts them at a balance disadvantage. Also look at skill level etc. |
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Post by mightydawg on Sept 29, 2021 10:03:13 GMT -5
This year's ref recertification training was about 80% related to the new handball rule. Even with a bunch of video examples, what I left with was if the arm isn't extended to make the body bigger, then it is a pretty subjective call. For me, if the arms are inside the body I am almost certainly not going to make a game changing call in the box. If the arms are outside the body but there is no intent, then I make the call only if there is an advantage gained. I would add that this rule is even harder with younger kids who tend to move in unpredictable and inefficient ways. I have no idea how to define a "natural body movement" by a 12 year old boy! And the challenging piece is that a natural body position for girls is different than boys. This was demo'd at a recert several years ago. Had two younger refs (players), boy and girl, come to the front and had them both jump a few times (without telling them why). The arm positions were totally different, boys in closer, girls out further. Both were natural movements with no ball or play involved. I'm really looking at intent - when the ball is blasted into a defender's arm from 5 feet away, what could the defender have done? Tucking the arms behind them while moving backward to jockey an attacker is not feasible, puts them at a balance disadvantage. Also look at skill level etc. Looking at intent to do what? If you are considering whether there is intent to commit a handball, you would almost never make a handball call. If you are looking at intent to make your body bigger, then that is a different story. Many kids put there arms out when breaking down to defend because it makes their body bigger and harder to get around. When the ball strikes the player whose arm is out while in a defensive posture, there is intent to make the body bigger. |
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Post by 0507coop23dad on Sept 29, 2021 10:03:26 GMT -5
This year's ref recertification training was about 80% related to the new handball rule. Even with a bunch of video examples, what I left with was if the arm isn't extended to make the body bigger, then it is a pretty subjective call. For me, if the arms are inside the body I am almost certainly not going to make a game changing call in the box. If the arms are outside the body but there is no intent, then I make the call only if there is an advantage gained. I would add that this rule is even harder with younger kids who tend to move in unpredictable and inefficient ways. I have no idea how to define a "natural body movement" by a 12 year old boy! And the challenging piece is that a natural body position for girls is different than boys. This was demo'd at a recert several years ago. Had two younger refs (players), boy and girl, come to the front and had them both jump a few times (without telling them why). The arm positions were totally different, boys in closer, girls out further. Both were natural movements with no ball or play involved. I'm really looking at intent - when the ball is blasted into a defender's arm from 5 feet away, what could the defender have done? Tucking the arms behind them while moving backward to jockey an attacker is not feasible, puts them at a balance disadvantage. Also look at skill level etc. Awful, awful, awful! No one can possibly know intent. People game the system or has your head been in the sand all your life. Please tell us you’re not a ref. If you are please let me know where you ref so I can come and boo you. The subjective judgement of intent is ridiculous and should be banned - it is bad for the sport, bad for results, bad for the profession. Can you freaking imagine a home plate umpire trying to judge whether or not a pitcher “intended” to hit a batter and award 1st base on that basis. Call the damn handball, asshat. |
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Post by 0507coop23dad on Sept 29, 2021 10:21:12 GMT -5
And incidentally, I didn’t intend to offend you.
Asshat.
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Post by hotspur1 on Sept 29, 2021 10:41:33 GMT -5
And incidentally, I didn’t intend to offend you. Asshat. Wow. That seemed to escalate quick. Yellow card on Coop for the verbal abuse! 😃 |
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Post by hotspur1 on Sept 29, 2021 11:22:20 GMT -5
And the challenging piece is that a natural body position for girls is different than boys. This was demo'd at a recert several years ago. Had two younger refs (players), boy and girl, come to the front and had them both jump a few times (without telling them why). The arm positions were totally different, boys in closer, girls out further. Both were natural movements with no ball or play involved. I'm really looking at intent - when the ball is blasted into a defender's arm from 5 feet away, what could the defender have done? Tucking the arms behind them while moving backward to jockey an attacker is not feasible, puts them at a balance disadvantage. Also look at skill level etc. Awful, awful, awful! No one can possibly know intent. People game the system or has your head been in the sand all your life. Please tell us you’re not a ref. If you are please let me know where you ref so I can come and boo you. The subjective judgement of intent is ridiculous and should be banned - it is bad for the sport, bad for results, bad for the profession. Can you freaking imagine a home plate umpire trying to judge whether or not a pitcher “intended” to hit a batter and award 1st base on that basis. Call the damn handball, asshat. I get what you’re saying but your analogy is bad. You do realize umpires do use their judgement to determine if a pitcher is “intentionally” throwing at a hitter and will toss them out of the game, right? |
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