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Post by randomparent on Nov 26, 2022 10:58:40 GMT -5
For this post I was just going to say I disagree with you. Parents are normally are wrong, some of them know some of the rules. The problem is that we as parents are biased. I never hear my fellow parents yelling when someone on our team commits a foul or calling and OBVIOUS offsides on our team. When my kid goes in hard for a tackle I think, great aggressive play. Good job, be tough. When the kid does an aggressive tackle with my kid I think foul, the ref needs to protect my kid. Then to be honest you gave me a LOL because you kind of reinforced this theory further down with your other post when you never say anything accept for player safety. Like the time your kid was fouled. Maybe it was a bad foul, but the reason I had an LOL was my whole problem with parents yelling and commenting is the biases. It is only their team or their kid they comment about. Do you comment on player safety when your daughter commits a foul? Probably not, I certainly wouldn't. But that is why parents are normally wrong. I would say though I agree with you that player safety is important and we have all been in games were too much is allowed and inevitably kids get hurt. Generally the refs do a good job of controlling a game, sometimes they wait too long but they usually get there eventually. Personally I am okay differentiating the type of ref/game regarding comments. High level/older games with older refs that are getting paid a decent amount I do have higher expectations for. Any game with a kid under the age of 20 I usually just sit back and accept it for what it is. FYI if you have ever been an AR on the sidelines of games either of my kids having been playing you absolutely WILL hear me comment that our player committed a foul or was offsides. I tend to be a fair person. I also played the game (a long time ago when some rules were a bit different, but many were not) and my kids have played for a combined 15 years not including rec soccerand I watch many (my family would say too many) hours of soccer per week. I also tend to listen to the commentary, read many soccer articles and am a person who absorbs knowledge on things I like. Parents like me exist on every sideline. At the higher levels there are several parents like this on sidelines. That being said the rules change EVERY YEAR! So we do need to keep up with them and not assume they were the same as last year. Although we do need to give AR and CR of U9-U12 some slack let us all remember that you are enforcing rules of the game on small kids that look at the refs as authority figures. They are learning way more per day than the refs are (presumably they knew SOMETHING about soccer before they were certified). The Littles will be confused by inconsistent enforcement of the rules and crappy or new refs interfere with the learning of the game at those levels. At least one ref at those games should know what they are doing and be fit enough to cover a 7v7 or 9v9 field. Eleven toes. I am personally unsure what the point of your comment is about years of combined experience and the number of youtube videos you watch. Is this suppose to build authority and make your points more relevant? Raise your hand if when your team is offsides on a through ball you yell OFFSIDES to the ref. ROFL. Like almost never happens. People might say it under their breadth but the refs aren't hearing those comments. What parents normally do if they think there team is offsides is they say, wow he missed that one and laugh. But when the other team is offsides they YELL and get all ornery. Again biases. Which is why we shouldn't listen to parents and they should shut up on the sideline. You should give kids slack that ref. If you don't, you are the problem. I want you to think about it, you are the problem. Listen again, you are he problem. You are not going to teach them anything. You are the problem. Kids don't care about refs in general anyways. If the ref is bad they say, the ref is trash and then they go play rocket league after the game. This is someone whose kids have 22 years of combined soccer experience not including rec. |
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Post by rifle on Nov 26, 2022 11:39:21 GMT -5
Offside is simple to call for somebody in position and paying attention (looking and listening).. simple. If you’re watching the passer then turn your head and decide, like most fans - you’re doing it wrong!!
Definitely recommend lots of you knowledgeable parents get involved and referee. Especially if your kids are aged out of youth soccer. Getting paid to exercise while helping grassroots soccer is pretty win/win in my opinion.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Nov 27, 2022 0:00:52 GMT -5
FYI if you have ever been an AR on the sidelines of games either of my kids having been playing you absolutely WILL hear me comment that our player committed a foul or was offsides. I tend to be a fair person. I also played the game (a long time ago when some rules were a bit different, but many were not) and my kids have played for a combined 15 years not including rec soccerand I watch many (my family would say too many) hours of soccer per week. I also tend to listen to the commentary, read many soccer articles and am a person who absorbs knowledge on things I like. Parents like me exist on every sideline. At the higher levels there are several parents like this on sidelines. That being said the rules change EVERY YEAR! So we do need to keep up with them and not assume they were the same as last year. Although we do need to give AR and CR of U9-U12 some slack let us all remember that you are enforcing rules of the game on small kids that look at the refs as authority figures. They are learning way more per day than the refs are (presumably they knew SOMETHING about soccer before they were certified). The Littles will be confused by inconsistent enforcement of the rules and crappy or new refs interfere with the learning of the game at those levels. At least one ref at those games should know what they are doing and be fit enough to cover a 7v7 or 9v9 field. Eleven toes. I am personally unsure what the point of your comment is about years of combined experience and the number of youtube videos you watch. Is this suppose to build authority and make your points more relevant? Raise your hand if when your team is offsides on a through ball you yell OFFSIDES to the ref. ROFL. Like almost never happens. People might say it under their breadth but the refs aren't hearing those comments. What parents normally do if they think there team is offsides is they say, wow he missed that one and laugh. But when the other team is offsides they YELL and get all ornery. Again biases. Which is why we shouldn't listen to parents and they should shut up on the sideline. You should give kids slack that ref. If you don't, you are the problem. I want you to think about it, you are the problem. Listen again, you are he problem. You are not going to teach them anything. You are the problem. Kids don't care about refs in general anyways. If the ref is bad they say, the ref is trash and then they go play rocket league after the game. This is someone whose kids have 22 years of combined soccer experience not including rec. What I am saying about the years of watching was in reference to a prior comment by someone else that parents learn the game over time (if they did not know it already). Yes it provides some context to the point that many parents know the game quite well. Refs need to just accept sideline commentary (not abuse). It is natural. It is often correct. I never yell "offsides" or "they were NOT offsides." If you are paying attention to the parents as a parent you will notice it is usually 2-4 parents that are yelling about calls. Most are just saying things to each other in a normal voice. I am all for not being abusive and telling refs they are stupid or things like that but refs do need to just deal with commentary. ARs hear the commentary. CRs probably hear the yelling stuff. Interesting to me is the players say they rarely hear any yelling from the sidelines (cheers or jeers) when asked. Could the refs just be sensitized to hear the comments??? As to all that say parents should ref themselves, that is nice in theory. I would have done it if my schedule would have permitted it. Now that my schedule does (partially because one kid is old enough to drive and about to age out) I am too physically disabled to do so. My spouse is as well. Some of us are old and falling apart from our years of playing sports and getting old and having medical issues As an aside why do you think there is a bigger issue with refs being sensitive to parents' opinions than they were 5,10, 15 or more years ago??? I know the same comments were yelled 10 years ago as they are now... I give kids that ref slack. Most people I know do. The only exception is when you have a very young crew including CR 14 years old or younger that can't control the players and they start to get hurt. The assignor needs to be paying attention to young CR so there aren't injuries from reckless play. Kids absolutely care about refs, but my point about kids was that refs can confuse the Littles when they don't ref well. These kids hardly know when they do a goal kick. Anything inconsistent just slows their learning process down. The best refs for the U9 and U10 kids are older CRs who explain the calls and AR patient and involved. |
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Post by randomparent on Nov 27, 2022 10:26:58 GMT -5
Eleven toes. I am personally unsure what the point of your comment is about years of combined experience and the number of youtube videos you watch. Is this suppose to build authority and make your points more relevant? Raise your hand if when your team is offsides on a through ball you yell OFFSIDES to the ref. ROFL. Like almost never happens. People might say it under their breadth but the refs aren't hearing those comments. What parents normally do if they think there team is offsides is they say, wow he missed that one and laugh. But when the other team is offsides they YELL and get all ornery. Again biases. Which is why we shouldn't listen to parents and they should shut up on the sideline. You should give kids slack that ref. If you don't, you are the problem. I want you to think about it, you are the problem. Listen again, you are he problem. You are not going to teach them anything. You are the problem. Kids don't care about refs in general anyways. If the ref is bad they say, the ref is trash and then they go play rocket league after the game. This is someone whose kids have 22 years of combined soccer experience not including rec. I give kids that ref slack. Most people I know do. The only exception is when you have a very young crew including CR 14 years old or younger that can't control the players and they start to get hurt. You give the kids slack unless they are 14 or younger?  ?? Surely you wrote that line incorrectly. What is wrong with you? If there is a problem let the coaches handle it. Again you are the problem. Don't rationalize it. Leave the kids alone, they do not need random adults on the sidelines trying to fix things. It is not your job, talk to your coaches. |
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Post by rifle on Nov 27, 2022 12:47:19 GMT -5
I give kids that ref slack. Most people I know do. The only exception is when you have a very young crew including CR 14 years old or younger that can't control the players and they start to get hurt. You give the kids slack unless they are 14 or younger? ?? Surely you wrote that line incorrectly. What is wrong with you? If there is a problem let the coaches handle it. Again you are the problem. Don't rationalize it. Leave the kids alone, they do not need random adults on the sidelines trying to fix things. It is not your job, talk to your coaches. I think you misunderstand the quoted words. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Nov 28, 2022 9:53:38 GMT -5
For this post I was just going to say I disagree with you. Parents are normally are wrong, some of them know some of the rules. The problem is that we as parents are biased. I never hear my fellow parents yelling when someone on our team commits a foul or calling and OBVIOUS offsides on our team. When my kid goes in hard for a tackle I think, great aggressive play. Good job, be tough. When the kid does an aggressive tackle with my kid I think foul, the ref needs to protect my kid. Then to be honest you gave me a LOL because you kind of reinforced this theory further down with your other post when you never say anything accept for player safety. Like the time your kid was fouled. Maybe it was a bad foul, but the reason I had an LOL was my whole problem with parents yelling and commenting is the biases. It is only their team or their kid they comment about. Do you comment on player safety when your daughter commits a foul? Probably not, I certainly wouldn't. But that is why parents are normally wrong. I would say though I agree with you that player safety is important and we have all been in games were too much is allowed and inevitably kids get hurt. Generally the refs do a good job of controlling a game, sometimes they wait too long but they usually get there eventually. Personally I am okay differentiating the type of ref/game regarding comments. High level/older games with older refs that are getting paid a decent amount I do have higher expectations for. Any game with a kid under the age of 20 I usually just sit back and accept it for what it is. I don't know if you were responding to me or Bolo, but the only time I comment is indeed player safety issue. If you ever AR on my side of the field as a parent, you will also hear me be the first one to tell the rest of my child's team parents when one of our player's fouls the other team or something was excessive or offside. I am very fair on that. I try to correct the parents so that they understand the game better and are not always complaining about calls they believe to be bad but in reality were fairly called by the referee even if the calls go against my child's team. |
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Post by randomparent on Nov 28, 2022 11:34:34 GMT -5
For this post I was just going to say I disagree with you. Parents are normally are wrong, some of them know some of the rules. The problem is that we as parents are biased. I never hear my fellow parents yelling when someone on our team commits a foul or calling and OBVIOUS offsides on our team. When my kid goes in hard for a tackle I think, great aggressive play. Good job, be tough. When the kid does an aggressive tackle with my kid I think foul, the ref needs to protect my kid. Then to be honest you gave me a LOL because you kind of reinforced this theory further down with your other post when you never say anything accept for player safety. Like the time your kid was fouled. Maybe it was a bad foul, but the reason I had an LOL was my whole problem with parents yelling and commenting is the biases. It is only their team or their kid they comment about. Do you comment on player safety when your daughter commits a foul? Probably not, I certainly wouldn't. But that is why parents are normally wrong. I would say though I agree with you that player safety is important and we have all been in games were too much is allowed and inevitably kids get hurt. Generally the refs do a good job of controlling a game, sometimes they wait too long but they usually get there eventually. Personally I am okay differentiating the type of ref/game regarding comments. High level/older games with older refs that are getting paid a decent amount I do have higher expectations for. Any game with a kid under the age of 20 I usually just sit back and accept it for what it is. I don't know if you were responding to me or Bolo, but the only time I comment is indeed player safety issue. If you ever AR on my side of the field as a parent, you will also hear me be the first one to tell the rest of my child's team parents when one of our player's fouls the other team or something was excessive or offside. I am very fair on that. I try to correct the parents so that they understand the game better and are not always complaining about calls they believe to be bad but in reality were fairly called by the referee even if the calls go against my child's team. I was commenting on Bolo's post. It sounds like you see yourself as an unbiased arbiter of what is right or wrong. Maybe it is your experience as a referee you feel like it empowers you to make comments with more authority than others. Much like if someone has x number of years kids playing competitively. But the problem is, most teams do not have you. Most teams have the normal parent, the one that is biased. The one that every time their kid gets bumped or elbowed or pushed that it is an awful foul and the other team is always offsides. They come in and think they have the authority / ability / responsibility to yell/comment to referees. What I am saying is that no parents have that authority / ability / responsibility. It is the coaches responsibility not parents. I am not even sure why people keep arguing about it. You all do realize kids quit because of parents? You do realize these are kids right. I know none of you think you are the problem, no one ever does. The fascinating thing is all of you feel like you have the authority / ability / responsibility to be the person and everyone rationalizes it. Lastly, my problem is with parents that do this to kid referees. They are kids. I am sure some of you do probably can do it responsibly, but we all know the majority of parents do not. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Nov 28, 2022 12:23:24 GMT -5
I don't know if you were responding to me or Bolo, but the only time I comment is indeed player safety issue. If you ever AR on my side of the field as a parent, you will also hear me be the first one to tell the rest of my child's team parents when one of our player's fouls the other team or something was excessive or offside. I am very fair on that. I try to correct the parents so that they understand the game better and are not always complaining about calls they believe to be bad but in reality were fairly called by the referee even if the calls go against my child's team. I was commenting on Bolo's post. It sounds like you see yourself as an unbiased arbiter of what is right or wrong. Maybe it is your experience as a referee you feel like it empowers you to make comments with more authority than others. Much like if someone has x number of years kids playing competitively. But the problem is, most teams do not have you. Most teams have the normal parent, the one that is biased. The one that every time their kid gets bumped or elbowed or pushed that it is an awful foul and the other team is always offsides. They come in and think they have the authority / ability / responsibility to yell/comment to referees. What I am saying is that no parents have that authority / ability / responsibility. It is the coaches responsibility not parents. I am not even sure why people keep arguing about it. You all do realize kids quit because of parents? You do realize these are kids right. I know none of you think you are the problem, no one ever does. The fascinating thing is all of you feel like you have the authority / ability / responsibility to be the person and everyone rationalizes it. Lastly, my problem is with parents that do this to kid referees. They are kids. I am sure some of you do probably can do it responsibly, but we all know the majority of parents do not. I disagree with the "majority of parents do not" comment. I can count on one hand the number of parents per team that are the loud mouth, indiscriminate ones that yell at refs. Given a minimum of 15 players on an 11v11 team with average of 2 parents at the game (some have grandparents or siblings there so saying average 2) that is at MOST 5 of 30. Definitely not majority. On another point you (not specifically you, but the plural you) are getting upset about parents yelling at refs, but it is ok for coaches to berate their players?? So adults yelling at adults is bad, but coaches yelling at players and berating them is ok. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Nov 28, 2022 12:36:08 GMT -5
You give the kids slack unless they are 14 or younger? ?? Surely you wrote that line incorrectly. What is wrong with you? If there is a problem let the coaches handle it. Again you are the problem. Don't rationalize it. Leave the kids alone, they do not need random adults on the sidelines trying to fix things. It is not your job, talk to your coaches. I think you misunderstand the quoted words. Definitely misunderstanding what I meant there. I am so wordy to try to prevent this type of misunderstanding and have to laugh at myself that I did it anyway. Maybe it was the lack of sleep last night. I meant that I don't think kids should CR games before they are 15 and over 2 years of ref experience UNLESS there is an assignor or a mentor there. Before I hear a loud chorus of boos and arguments let me explain my position as a parent of players, former player, parent of 1 ref and 1 soon to be ref and an orthopedic sports medicine surgeon. The number one most important thing of a referee is to help keep the game safe for the players. Distant number 2 is to keep the game fair and I would say, for the younger kids, to help teach them the rules (not tactics). I have seen so many injuries, many requiring surgery or long term casting, from the refs not prioritizing player safety. I AM NOT GOING TO YELL AT A KID REF! We can argue what is a kid later. I would NEVER yell at a child. H*ll I rarely yell at an adult ref. But I might yell at an adult if they are permitting dangerous, reckless fouls. It is NOT the fault of a 14 year old ref if they lose control of a game. It is the fault of the coaches and the assignors/mentors. |
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Post by randomparent on Nov 28, 2022 12:49:28 GMT -5
I was commenting on Bolo's post. It sounds like you see yourself as an unbiased arbiter of what is right or wrong. Maybe it is your experience as a referee you feel like it empowers you to make comments with more authority than others. Much like if someone has x number of years kids playing competitively. But the problem is, most teams do not have you. Most teams have the normal parent, the one that is biased. The one that every time their kid gets bumped or elbowed or pushed that it is an awful foul and the other team is always offsides. They come in and think they have the authority / ability / responsibility to yell/comment to referees. What I am saying is that no parents have that authority / ability / responsibility. It is the coaches responsibility not parents. I am not even sure why people keep arguing about it. You all do realize kids quit because of parents? You do realize these are kids right. I know none of you think you are the problem, no one ever does. The fascinating thing is all of you feel like you have the authority / ability / responsibility to be the person and everyone rationalizes it. Lastly, my problem is with parents that do this to kid referees. They are kids. I am sure some of you do probably can do it responsibly, but we all know the majority of parents do not. I disagree with the "majority of parents do not" comment. I can count on one hand the number of parents per team that are the loud mouth, indiscriminate ones that yell at refs. Given a minimum of 15 players on an 11v11 team with average of 2 parents at the game (some have grandparents or siblings there so saying average 2) that is at MOST 5 of 30. Definitely not majority. On another point you (not specifically you, but the plural you) are getting upset about parents yelling at refs, but it is ok for coaches to berate their players?? So adults yelling at adults is bad, but coaches yelling at players and berating them is ok. "I am sure some of you do probably can do it responsibly, but we all know the majority of parents do not." I did not say that 90% of parents are being morons. Of the ones that do decide to yell and give feedback, 90% of them are morons. |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Dec 3, 2022 23:20:26 GMT -5
[Rant on]
It comes down to this...
Good referees NEED TO BE paid more to deal with the BS. We parents have to pay more. The BS has not changed in my modest 6 years of select ball, but I've seen more than my share of poor officiating. A loss may have excellent officiating. A win/tie may have poor or even terrible officiating (especially at Fowler btw). We as parents have to demand a better product. Our kids have to be as safe as college players. Every game is now on Veo/Trace nowadays, every game is reviewable.
I'll admit I can be an annoying parent when I see poor officiating, but these days its so easy to point out on video, especially when it's biased in one direction.
Also, so refreshing to watch the officiating at Cary for women's NCAA semis. So clean, so fair.
[/Rant off]
Unrelated side note to last month...at Fowler if a player is hit to the BS-dangerous-as-hell concrete barrier to the turf...it should immediately be called a reckless-to-excessive play. That shizate is SO dangerous to our kids. UFA should just add spikes, cobras and fire to up the ante.
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