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Post by bolo on Oct 19, 2021 12:53:31 GMT -5
Maybe I am a bit jaded by this whole discussion because last year, my daughter's team was horrible. Without fail, every game that we lost, our coach would use the excuse that it was because the other team brought down players from ECNL. This includes using this excuse against clubs that don't have ECNL. Ultimately, that is what the entire discussion is--an excuse that coaches and parents make when the game doesn't go as hoped. You play the team wearing the opposing jersey. If the other team believes that your team is so good that the only chance it has is to bring down better players, that is a compliment to your team. Does anyone mention this when they win? I remember a few years ago in the first year of SCCL (when it was just SCCL Club, essentially, and that was the highest level for U12 & below), my daughter's SCCL team was playing a team that we beat pretty comfortably in the fall, but in the spring that team had a few girls on the team that didn't play in the fall, including one that was clearly the best player on the field. I think we either lost or tied the game, and afterwards my daughter was complaining about that girl playing, saying she was "playing down" against them because she normally played on that club's U13 ECNL team and even had an ECNL patch on her jersey. To which I said, "But she's actually U12, right? So she's the right age to play against against your team?" My daughter grudgingly agreed but still thought it was vaguely "not fair"- basically that a girl her own age was so good she shouldn't be playing against my daughter's team, which was the highest-level team at her age at her club! On a related note, as a parent, I personally get pissed if a coach "brings down" players from a higher level team- or even brings some over from a lower or equal level team- to play on my kids' teams, and essentially just eat into the playing time of the "regular" team members. Look, if we're down significantly in numbers and need the subs, I get it and support it. Or if you have only one goalie and they can't play, replace them with another goalie- completely understand. But if you've got a roster of 17, and two players are going to be out for a random regular season game, just play with 15 and let everyone have more playing time. The players will enjoy it and the parents will definitely appreciate it, and in the grand scheme of things, playing time is what a lot of these players are after in these developmental years as much as wins & losses. Just my two cents though. |
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Post by soccerspin on Oct 19, 2021 14:36:47 GMT -5
I am not buying it. If soccerspin is that upset to the point they created a thread and as they say it’s not fair to the kids why wouldn’t they share the details and call out the team so they don’t do it again, or at least put them on “notice” that others are aware. It was probably one ( or two ) bubble kids if any who the coach wanted to get more playing time to. Us parents need to stop playing into the excuses on why they lost. Get better and beat them next time. Yes I’m sure putting the team on notice as you say would really matter. And as stated previously, it’s completely legal according to the rules so technically they did nothing wrong. The point of the post was to ask if the rules read the way I think they did (there’s no limit on how many you can bring down to play in an ECNL-R game) and I have not heard to the contrary. And finally, don’t care what you believe. Already stated we know some of these players well so they’re very recognizable and easily checked. No idea what’s happened in other games for anyone else, but in this one, four were pulled down. Only happened to notice because again, we know the players. |
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Post by hotspur1 on Oct 19, 2021 14:38:57 GMT -5
Maybe I am a bit jaded by this whole discussion because last year, my daughter's team was horrible. Without fail, every game that we lost, our coach would use the excuse that it was because the other team brought down players from ECNL. This includes using this excuse against clubs that don't have ECNL. Ultimately, that is what the entire discussion is--an excuse that coaches and parents make when the game doesn't go as hoped. You play the team wearing the opposing jersey. If the other team believes that your team is so good that the only chance it has is to bring down better players, that is a compliment to your team. Does anyone mention this when they win? I remember a few years ago in the first year of SCCL (when it was just SCCL Club, essentially, and that was the highest level for U12 & below), my daughter's SCCL team was playing a team that we beat pretty comfortably in the fall, but in the spring that team had a few girls on the team that didn't play in the fall, including one that was clearly the best player on the field. I think we either lost or tied the game, and afterwards my daughter was complaining about that girl playing, saying she was "playing down" against them because she normally played on that club's U13 ECNL team and even had an ECNL patch on her jersey. To which I said, "But she's actually U12, right? So she's the right age to play against against your team?" My daughter grudgingly agreed but still thought it was vaguely "not fair"- basically that a girl her own age was so good she shouldn't be playing against my daughter's team, which was the highest-level team at her age at her club! On a related note, as a parent, I personally get pissed if a coach "brings down" players from a higher level team- or even brings some over from a lower or equal level team- to play on my kids' teams, and essentially just eat into the playing time of the "regular" team members. Look, if we're down significantly in numbers and need the subs, I get it and support it. Or if you have only one goalie and they can't play, replace them with another goalie- completely understand. But if you've got a roster of 17, and two players are going to be out for a random regular season game, just play with 15 and let everyone have more playing time. The players will enjoy it and the parents will definitely appreciate it, and in the grand scheme of things, playing time is what a lot of these players are after in these developmental years as much as wins & losses. Just my two cents though. So a few points. These kids have usually competed against each other for many years. They know each other, go to school with each other, ODP, private training, etc. They know when it happens. My daughter, a few years ago, played one of her best friends in a tourney game that was playing down in an end of season tourney. And the team she guested on had at least 6-8 subs. Regular season, I’ve seen GSA play games with players but usually from the composite team. It happens. Usually due to injuries, bubble players, etc, but it does happen. And for the poster who said kits are worn for two years, damn you are lucky. We had to buy a new kit each of my girls last 5 years I believe. Between RPL, NPL, SCCL… was pricey. |
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Post by justhavefun on Oct 19, 2021 15:23:02 GMT -5
I am not buying it. If soccerspin is that upset to the point they created a thread and as they say it’s not fair to the kids why wouldn’t they share the details and call out the team so they don’t do it again, or at least put them on “notice” that others are aware. It was probably one ( or two ) bubble kids if any who the coach wanted to get more playing time to. Us parents need to stop playing into the excuses on why they lost. Get better and beat them next time. Yes I’m sure putting the team on notice as you say would really matter. And as stated previously, it’s completely legal according to the rules so technically they did nothing wrong. The point of the post was to ask if the rules read the way I think they did (there’s no limit on how many you can bring down to play in an ECNL-R game) and I have not heard to the contrary. And finally, don’t care what you believe. Already stated we know some of these players well so they’re very recognizable and easily checked. No idea what’s happened in other games for anyone else, but in this one, four were pulled down. Only happened to notice because again, we know the players. |
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Post by justhavefun on Oct 19, 2021 15:28:35 GMT -5
Put on notice was put in quotes. Meaning call them out. Most kids I know who play for top teams don’t take pride in playing down and beating teams in lower divisions. I just find it interesting that you won’t say what team it was. I think you aren’t only because that team has parents on the forum and they will reply. If you are right maybe they will give you their perspective as to why or Even confirm your assertion, but if wrong they will say that too. Just sounds like sour grapes after a loss. Sorry - that’s how it comes across to me.
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Post by soccerspin on Oct 19, 2021 18:13:22 GMT -5
Put on notice was put in quotes. Meaning call them out. Most kids I know who play for top teams don’t take pride in playing down and beating teams in lower divisions. I just find it interesting that you won’t say what team it was. I think you aren’t only because that team has parents on the forum and they will reply. If you are right maybe they will give you their perspective as to why or Even confirm your assertion, but if wrong they will say that too. Just sounds like sour grapes after a loss. Sorry - that’s how it comes across to me. If that’s the way it sounds then it’s hard to understand why calling out the team would make any difference. It would still be sour grapes right? So what number is acceptable to you to bring down? Clearly 4 is fine…how about 6, 8? When would it not be sour grapes? The real point of this post is not to call out the other team but to point out one, this does actually happen. And two, there seems to be an allowance in ECNL rules to do this (again at any number). Perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised but I am. I hadn’t seen that before in other leagues we’ve been in. And finally, I also find it interesting how quick the “nothing to see here” posts came out. I fail to see what I gain in making up such a story. And I wouldn’t post a story I wasn’t 100% sure about. I was primarily looking for feedback on the rules because I thought I had to be missing something…apparently not. |
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Post by mamadona on Oct 19, 2021 19:22:50 GMT -5
Put on notice was put in quotes. Meaning call them out. Most kids I know who play for top teams don’t take pride in playing down and beating teams in lower divisions. I just find it interesting that you won’t say what team it was. I think you aren’t only because that team has parents on the forum and they will reply. If you are right maybe they will give you their perspective as to why or Even confirm your assertion, but if wrong they will say that too. Just sounds like sour grapes after a loss. Sorry - that’s how it comes across to me. If that’s the way it sounds then it’s hard to understand why calling out the team would make any difference. It would still be sour grapes right? So what number is acceptable to you to bring down? Clearly 4 is fine…how about 6, 8? When would it not be sour grapes? The real point of this post is not to call out the other team but to point out one, this does actually happen. And two, there seems to be an allowance in ECNL rules to do this (again at any number). Perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised but I am. I hadn’t seen that before in other leagues we’ve been in. And finally, I also find it interesting how quick the “nothing to see here” posts came out. I fail to see what I gain in making up such a story. And I wouldn’t post a story I wasn’t 100% sure about. I was primarily looking for feedback on the rules because I thought I had to be missing something…apparently not. I wouldn't be happy either. Why have levels if it doesn't make a difference who plays where? Of course it makes a difference if higher level players play down. But maybe they did have a good reason. Maybe those kids barely get any playing time on their regular team. |
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Post by georgiatechalum on Oct 19, 2021 20:06:41 GMT -5
I am with justhavefun. If you are so upset that you were done wrong why would you not say who the team is? I think soccerspin has a 2006 boy. According to the ECNL -R schedule there were 4 teams who played last weekend. If your son plays for a 2006 - ECNL - R team did you “ cheat” this weekend?🤣
Did you bring bring 4 superstars down to play a ECNL R team ? lol
BTW - soccerspin has brought this same topic up before a couple of times.
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Post by soccerspin on Oct 20, 2021 7:37:33 GMT -5
I am with justhavefun. If you are so upset that you were done wrong why would you not say who the team is? I think soccerspin has a 2006 boy. According to the ECNL -R schedule there were 4 teams who played last weekend. If your son plays for a 2006 - ECNL - R team did you “ cheat” this weekend?🤣 Did you bring bring 4 superstars down to play a ECNL R team ? lol BTW - soccerspin has brought this same topic up before a couple of times. One other time - different team and club. Gosh that is quite the track record. You are quite the super sleuth. Maybe you could look into getting a cool badge for it or something? Personally I don’t have the energy or desire to dig up someone’s previous posts. Also not sure why I’m being attacked. Neither a team nor even a club was called out so what or who are you defending exactly? No matter, I got the info I was looking for (rules) and have nothing else I care to share on this topic. Tapping out. |
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Post by kidsocceruber on Oct 20, 2021 10:53:13 GMT -5
Here's a question. Coaches make a big deal of designating players for their teams after (or before) tryouts and separating the players into these tiers/teams, so if it's really a playing time question why do they take the player to begin with? Is it better for these kids to be the 5th or 6th player off the bench just to practice with the 1st team or just practicing and starting on the 2nd team? The cynic in me says with those players it's all about getting their money vs letting them walk to another club where playing time at the same level may be more, but admittedly my glass is half empty and all teams need backups.
We all know there are occassions it happens, but whatever the reasons are for the kids to play down (Playing time, injuries, or just wanting that team to have a better chance of winning the game), the real question is do the parents on that team mind that their kid may be losing playing time to a player not on their roster? If it's a necessity due to injury I am guessing they'd rather have someone play down vs bringing someone up to strengthen the team, but with playing time issues that player should just have been on the next team under and played up when the need arose if the 1st team just doesn't use the back of their bench in games. The kids aren't getting paid to sit on the bench for an emergency/injury, so if they're not getting playing time on one team they probably should be on another.
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