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Post by bogan on Dec 28, 2021 21:23:41 GMT -5
I never heard of that guy. Who do you consider a reliable source? Scott Gottlieb MD (and former FDA Commissioner) has been pretty good…. He’s on Pfizer’s BOD-here’s his bio page: “Scott Gottlieb, M.D. Age: 49 years Special Partner, New Enterprise Associations, Inc.’s healthcare investment team and Resident Fellow of the American Enterprise Institute. Dr. Gottlieb served as the 23rd Commissioner of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) from 2017 to 2019. Prior to serving as Commissioner, Dr. Gottlieb held several roles in the public and private sectors including serving as Managing Director, T.R. Winston & Company from 2013 to 2017. Dr. Gottlieb was previously the FDA’s Deputy Commissioner for Medical and Scientific Affairs from 2005 to 2007, as well as the senior advisor to the FDA Commissioner from 2003 to 2004. He had been a senior advisor to the Administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services in 2004. Dr. Gottlieb is a member of the National Academy of Medicine and is a Contributor to the financial news network, CNBC. Director Illumina, Inc., Director of Aetion, Inc. a private healthcare data technology company and Tempus, a private technology company. Pfizer Director since 2019. Chair of our Regulatory and Compliance Committee and Member of our Science and Technology Committee.“ |
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Post by rifle on Dec 28, 2021 21:26:29 GMT -5
Scott Gottlieb MD (and former FDA Commissioner) has been pretty good…. He’s on Pfizer’s BOD-here’s his bio page: “Scott Gottlieb, M.D. Age: 49 years Special Partner, New Enterprise Associations, Inc.’s healthcare investment team and Resident Fellow of the American Enterprise Institute. Dr. Gottlieb served as the 23rd Commissioner of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) from 2017 to 2019. Prior to serving as Commissioner, Dr. Gottlieb held several roles in the public and private sectors including serving as Managing Director, T.R. Winston & Company from 2013 to 2017. Dr. Gottlieb was previously the FDA’s Deputy Commissioner for Medical and Scientific Affairs from 2005 to 2007, as well as the senior advisor to the FDA Commissioner from 2003 to 2004. He had been a senior advisor to the Administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services in 2004. Dr. Gottlieb is a member of the National Academy of Medicine and is a Contributor to the financial news network, CNBC. Director Illumina, Inc., Director of Aetion, Inc. a private healthcare data technology company and Tempus, a private technology company. Pfizer Director since 2019. Chair of our Regulatory and Compliance Committee and Member of our Science and Technology Committee.“ One if the Fauci Co-conspirators? /sarqasm |
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Post by bogan on Dec 28, 2021 21:30:11 GMT -5
He’s on Pfizer’s BOD-here’s his bio page: “Scott Gottlieb, M.D. Age: 49 years Special Partner, New Enterprise Associations, Inc.’s healthcare investment team and Resident Fellow of the American Enterprise Institute. Dr. Gottlieb served as the 23rd Commissioner of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) from 2017 to 2019. Prior to serving as Commissioner, Dr. Gottlieb held several roles in the public and private sectors including serving as Managing Director, T.R. Winston & Company from 2013 to 2017. Dr. Gottlieb was previously the FDA’s Deputy Commissioner for Medical and Scientific Affairs from 2005 to 2007, as well as the senior advisor to the FDA Commissioner from 2003 to 2004. He had been a senior advisor to the Administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services in 2004. Dr. Gottlieb is a member of the National Academy of Medicine and is a Contributor to the financial news network, CNBC. Director Illumina, Inc., Director of Aetion, Inc. a private healthcare data technology company and Tempus, a private technology company. Pfizer Director since 2019. Chair of our Regulatory and Compliance Committee and Member of our Science and Technology Committee.“ One if the Fauci Co-conspirators? /sarqasm I know you jest…I think he’s been pretty straight forward. But I wanted folks to know he does have conflicts of interest. |
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Post by soccerspin on Dec 28, 2021 22:23:27 GMT -5
And he’s been very transparent about being on Pfizer’s board… it’s listed right under his name on Twitter as well.
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Post by georgiatechalum on Dec 29, 2021 16:57:51 GMT -5
Just my 2 cents, ( which is not even worth 2 cents). The main stat ( not the only stat) should be Covid deaths and that should be separated from Covid deaths with other morbidities). This Holiday season I had 8 members of the family who were tested for Covid ( either they were not feeling well or were exposed to someone who had Covid. All 8 were vaccinated, 4 tested positive, 4 negative. Of the 4 who tested positive 2 tests turned out to false positives, of the 4 who tested negative- 1 was a false negative. BTW - 7 family members have not been vaccinated and none of them are having any Covid issues / symptoms. (I am not advocating to not get vaccinated- I have been ) All 15 were together a lot during this time.
My point is I don’t think anyone really knows. The stats you see should be looked at with some caution. I do find it curious that many of the people who have a vested interest in the pharmaceuticals ( I.e Fauci) seem to be pushing certain treatments and I say certain because there are other treatments that might be more effective that don’t get mentioned much . I also find it a bit interesting that many folks just believed the Pfizer and Moderna 90% effective rate without much questioning. Even though the trials were many times faster than normal. It’s proved out to be no where as effective as 90%. I think we need to stop trying to prevent Covid and treat it ( at least for now) why are we not doing that ?
My mother always said follow the money … 🤔
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Post by bogan on Dec 29, 2021 18:12:47 GMT -5
Given the recent spike, anyone know what USYS is or isn’t doing (ODP, National League Showcases, etc.)?
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Post by mamadona on Dec 29, 2021 18:54:43 GMT -5
Just my 2 cents, ( which is not even worth 2 cents). The main stat ( not the only stat) should be Covid deaths and that should be separated from Covid deaths with other morbidities). This Holiday season I had 8 members of the family who were tested for Covid ( either they were not feeling well or were exposed to someone who had Covid. All 8 were vaccinated, 4 tested positive, 4 negative. Of the 4 who tested positive 2 tests turned out to false positives, of the 4 who tested negative- 1 was a false negative. BTW - 7 family members have not been vaccinated and none of them are having any Covid issues / symptoms. (I am not advocating to not get vaccinated- I have been ) All 15 were together a lot during this time. My point is I don’t think anyone really knows. The stats you see should be looked at with some caution. I do find it curious that many of the people who have a vested interest in the pharmaceuticals ( I.e Fauci) seem to be pushing certain treatments and I say certain because there are other treatments that might be more effective that don’t get mentioned much . I also find it a bit interesting that many folks just believed the Pfizer and Moderna 90% effective rate without much questioning. Even though the trials were many times faster than normal. It’s proved out to be no where as effective as 90%. I think we need to stop trying to prevent Covid and treat it ( at least for now) why are we not doing that ? My mother always said follow the money … 🤔 Other than deaths, what's important is the number in hospital. It's rising fast in many places. It's adults, and more kids than before. Some hospitals are starting to get overwhelmed. Some good news I read on twitter today is that they might have figured out what long covid patients have in common. Micro clots in the blood. There might be a cure for this which might include for ME/CFS too. I don't have personal experience with long covid but it scares me and I feel so bad for those who suffer from debilitating long term symptoms such as extreme fatigue, brain fog and lots of other issues. |
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Post by soccerspin on Dec 29, 2021 19:17:30 GMT -5
Just my 2 cents, ( which is not even worth 2 cents). The main stat ( not the only stat) should be Covid deaths and that should be separated from Covid deaths with other morbidities). This Holiday season I had 8 members of the family who were tested for Covid ( either they were not feeling well or were exposed to someone who had Covid. All 8 were vaccinated, 4 tested positive, 4 negative. Of the 4 who tested positive 2 tests turned out to false positives, of the 4 who tested negative- 1 was a false negative. BTW - 7 family members have not been vaccinated and none of them are having any Covid issues / symptoms. (I am not advocating to not get vaccinated- I have been ) All 15 were together a lot during this time. My point is I don’t think anyone really knows. The stats you see should be looked at with some caution. I do find it curious that many of the people who have a vested interest in the pharmaceuticals ( I.e Fauci) seem to be pushing certain treatments and I say certain because there are other treatments that might be more effective that don’t get mentioned much . I also find it a bit interesting that many folks just believed the Pfizer and Moderna 90% effective rate without much questioning. Even though the trials were many times faster than normal. It’s proved out to be no where as effective as 90%. I think we need to stop trying to prevent Covid and treat it ( at least for now) why are we not doing that ? My mother always said follow the money … 🤔 Totally agree we should be using therapeutics early and often. Unfortunately it sounds like some states (Texas I think?) has already run low (or out) of the monoclonal antibody treatments… |
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Post by soccerfan30 on Dec 29, 2021 21:39:45 GMT -5
Given the recent spike, anyone know what USYS is or isn’t doing (ODP, National League Showcases, etc.)? At this juncture ODP is continuing as normal, we have numerous training sessions scheduled for this weekend. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Jan 4, 2022 8:53:13 GMT -5
Point to the percentages of Covid deaths, worldwide, without any co-morbidities. You'd be hard pressed to do so. Additionally, obesity is the most common factor of all co-morbidities in covid deaths... so if you want to have mandates - why not mandate a national exercise program? That would help lower death rates more than the other mandates. Have you found that data anywhere? I agree about the obesity problem. …The rest of your rant got flushed. Its hard to find true and accurate data on deaths with comorbidities and covid versus healthy people dying from covid. At this point I'm not naïve enough to believe the fact that we can't readily find this information is just a coincidence. There is indeed an active narrative in the scientific community to push a certain agenda/narrative. Thus data that may put into question some policies are not going to be easy to find. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but being in the scientific field, unfortunately it is very politicized and always has been with egos and agendas trying to push narratives and silence opposing narratives, data, etc.... The science around covid is no different. Six things i think that are being pushed aside that are extremely relevant. 1) We will never get to Covid Zero. The CDC, government, etc... that pushed this narrative to begin with was stupid for doing so. Even with 100% compliance to vaccines this was never going to happen. Yet experts and media are still reluctant to talk about this to get the people that have digested too much panic porn to relax a bit and quit being Karen's up in people's faces. The virus is going to mutate and with any luck it will do what 90% of viruses do get more contagious but less severe and we will learn to live with it just like we do the flu. 2) There are enough studies out now that do indeed show natural immunity to be far superior to vaccine immunity, yet no one in the government or "experts" want to talk about that. They ignore it completely. If we are doing vaccine cards (which I am completely against) then there also needs to be a way to prove prior infection and natural immunity as a valid form of a "card". Some people have legitimate medical reasons on why they can not take the vaccine and those people get lumped into the anti-vaxxers and that isn't the right thing to do with them. 3) There are indeed a lot more vaccine related reactions and deaths than are being publicly reported. This data needs to be in the light so that people can make informed decisions. They are being downplayed, and that doesn't help with trust issues for people unwilling to take it. There have been a couple of peer reviewed journal articles on vaccine reactions, so I'm glad those are finally being published, but they still aren't being talked about. 4) We need to stop with the covid case count as the end all be all statistic to make policy decisions and reactions in general. That statistic without taking into account other statistics like death rate, which variant is the most prevalent, deaths with comorbidities versus health individuals, hospital rate due to covid needs to be separated from hospital rate with people admitted for other things but test positive for covid, etc.... Too much panic porn going on in the media and with some experts, and that does no one any good. 5) Everyone doesn't need to be tested. We don't have enough tests to do that. Asymptomatic people exposed don't need to be tested. The CDC guideline of 5 days of quarantine and then go back to work is a sound policy. No testing should be needed to go back to work or school after 5 days. Testing is useless anyway when people can test positive for weeks after first becoming positive but they are not contagious at that point. 6) The mask mandates aren't doing anything to help. Cloth masks are about 10% effective at most. The only masks that really help are N95 ones, and to a lesser extent surgical masks help a little more than cloth ones. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Jan 4, 2022 8:57:06 GMT -5
Just my 2 cents, ( which is not even worth 2 cents). The main stat ( not the only stat) should be Covid deaths and that should be separated from Covid deaths with other morbidities). This Holiday season I had 8 members of the family who were tested for Covid ( either they were not feeling well or were exposed to someone who had Covid. All 8 were vaccinated, 4 tested positive, 4 negative. Of the 4 who tested positive 2 tests turned out to false positives, of the 4 who tested negative- 1 was a false negative. BTW - 7 family members have not been vaccinated and none of them are having any Covid issues / symptoms. (I am not advocating to not get vaccinated- I have been ) All 15 were together a lot during this time. My point is I don’t think anyone really knows. The stats you see should be looked at with some caution. I do find it curious that many of the people who have a vested interest in the pharmaceuticals ( I.e Fauci) seem to be pushing certain treatments and I say certain because there are other treatments that might be more effective that don’t get mentioned much . I also find it a bit interesting that many folks just believed the Pfizer and Moderna 90% effective rate without much questioning. Even though the trials were many times faster than normal. It’s proved out to be no where as effective as 90%. I think we need to stop trying to prevent Covid and treat it ( at least for now) why are we not doing that ? My mother always said follow the money … 🤔 Totally agree we should be using therapeutics early and often. Unfortunately it sounds like some states (Texas I think?) has already run low (or out) of the monoclonal antibody treatments… Unfortunately this is being done politically if you dig deep enough. The Biden administration is indeed giving more monoclonal antibody treatments to blue states rather than red ones. You have to dig for that information but it is completely true and disturbing. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Jan 4, 2022 10:48:27 GMT -5
Totally agree we should be using therapeutics early and often. Unfortunately it sounds like some states (Texas I think?) has already run low (or out) of the monoclonal antibody treatments… Unfortunately this is being done politically if you dig deep enough. The Biden administration is indeed giving more monoclonal antibody treatments to blue states rather than red ones. You have to dig for that information but it is completely true and disturbing. Monoclonal antibodies are not working for Omicron but the newer treatments (pills] are (supposedly). |
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Post by mistergrinch on Jan 4, 2022 11:18:09 GMT -5
Have you found that data anywhere? I agree about the obesity problem. …The rest of your rant got flushed. 2) There are enough studies out now that do indeed show natural immunity to be far superior to vaccine immunity, 3) There are indeed a lot more vaccine related reactions and deaths than are being publicly reported. While completely setting aside your rant about 'them', as if the entire world medical community is a monolithic entity.... please cite your sources for these rather bold assertions. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Jan 4, 2022 15:04:12 GMT -5
2) There are enough studies out now that do indeed show natural immunity to be far superior to vaccine immunity, 3) There are indeed a lot more vaccine related reactions and deaths than are being publicly reported. While completely setting aside your rant about 'them', as if the entire world medical community is a monolithic entity.... please cite your sources for these rather bold assertions. Never said it was monolithic, but like in all science (which I'm a part of the scientific community) there are egos and people in position of power that will try to discredit and destroy people's reputations and their livelihoods if they speak up with opposing data against the narrative. I've seen it too many times and plenty of different scientific realms not just covid. This type of stuff silences opposition which is a death sentence for true scientific discovery and science in general. The media perpetuates this as well. Here is one journal article on the vaccine reactions... www.researchgate.net/publication/355581860_COVID_vaccination_and_age-stratified_all-cause_mortality_riskAs for natural immunity being far superior I'll have to find those but I know I've read at least three studies that show this. I've only seen one study that shows the opposite and it was a very suspect Kentucky study that the CDC pushed publicly while not saying a word publicly about the other studies which I know for a fact they know about. I would say do a Google search but all of social media and search engines are using algorithms to push certain links to the top. So it's hard to find them. I'll see if I can find the studies and post them if I have time later tonight or this week. I'm not just talking out of my ass. I did actually read studies that statistically showed natural immunity to be as good if not better than vaccinated immunity. My bigger issue now is social media and search engines are removing factual posts and links as covid misinformation when it actually is not. Maybe it's an algorithm error with their platform but I've seen completely peer-reviewed articles get removed from both Twitter and Facebook as being inaccurate when they were coming from articles based on peer reviewed studies in reputable journals. |
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Post by mamadona on Jan 5, 2022 22:08:39 GMT -5
But… even if natural immunity was better, you have to get sick to get that. We vaccinate so we don’t have to get sick with the risks that entails. Why vaccine for anything if natural immunity is better? Let’s stop all vaccines and let the kids get measles, chickenpox, etc again. Most will be fine. Some will die or get lasting damage but “it’s mild”.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Jan 6, 2022 8:44:45 GMT -5
But… even if natural immunity was better, you have to get sick to get that. We vaccinate so we don’t have to get sick with the risks that entails. Why vaccine for anything if natural immunity is better? Let’s stop all vaccines and let the kids get measles, chickenpox, etc again. Most will be fine. Some will die or get lasting damage but “it’s mild”. You didn't understand my point on natural immunity. People that have already gotten and recovered from COVID really don't need a vaccine for it. Kid's who are healthy and without comorbidities really don't need the vaccine at all even if they haven't gotten COVID yet. The cost/benefit relationship in healthy young people and kids is different than people that have a bigger chance to die if they get COVID. This should have been the way they always tackled this issue. Instead of mandating and forcing people to vaccinate. They needed to differentiate between healthy young people and kids along with people that have natural immunity and recognize them not getting the vaccine was not as big of a deal as they are making it out to be. There is even a newer study that has just came out that states even when the antibody levels of natural immunity go down they do not completely go away. They plateau, and memory immune cells recognize the virus if it enters again and tell the body to ramp back up antibody production if it shows up again. My other issue is that the vaccine reaction rate is grossly under-reported. They are very quiet on this but more and more studies and reports are showing that there are a lot more reactions some of which are not even being investigated as a vaccine reaction and blamed on other causes instead. This is not conspiracy theory stuff this is accurate info. I don't fall for conspiracy crap. I am pro-vaccination except for in kids and healthy young people where at that point it should be their decision on whether or not the cost/benefit analysis shows its right for them to take the vaccine. I personally have not taken the vaccine nor has my two kids. I have medical reasons for this. My dad did have a very bad reaction to his second dose of Pfizer vaccine. About 5 days after his 2nd dose his body's immune system started attacking all the joints in his body. He could not even get out of bed and had to be helped to the doctor's office. He was given massive doses of steroids to counteract this, and now is on a regiment of steroids probably for the rest of his life. Even though this man was in his 60's he still climbed trees to deer hunt and did a lot more manual labor than even I do. He was in great health and great shape. Now he is about 40-50% of his former self. His doctor who happens to be mine as well, told us it was definitely a vaccine reaction. I don't think this reaction was ever reported in any database to my knowledge. I discussed the possibility of the reaction being a genetic thing and he agreed that until we know more about it years down the road that neither me nor my kids should take the COVID vaccine due to potential for the same reaction to happen with us. I felt horrible for pushing the vaccine on my parents as I was afraid they would get covid and die. I know telling them and convincing them to take it was the right thing to do but it still doesn't lessen the guilt I feel about what has happened to my dad. The good thing is our whole family had covid back in October-November of 2020. I know this because I was constantly checking my antibodies every 1-2 months. In October I didn't have them in November I did. I then had the whole family tested for antibodies and we all had them. None of us ever had any symptoms whatsoever and did not know we even got it. Fast forward to November 2021 where I checked my antibodies again, and they now quantitate them. I still had moderately-high levels of COVID antibodies in my body 12 months after me getting it which means 1 of 2 things. I either have a great immune system or I got the Delta strain and didn't even know I got it either. Now don't take this the wrong way. I'm not discounting COVID. I know it is deadly. I know people that have died from it. My point is in virology it is known that most viruses want to live/replicate. If they kill all their hosts they won't live/replicate. Most viruses mutate to more contagious strains but those strains tend to be less severe the more and more the virus mutates. Look at the 1918 Spanish Flu that has mutated to our flu strains today. Look at Omicron which by most accounts is nothing more than a bad flu/cold with symptoms indistinguishable from those other viruses without a test. Covid will always be with us, but more than likely it will turn into a flu/cold like bug that we will learn to live with without all these lockdowns and mask mandates, etc... The faster we psychologically accept this (especially the ones that still live in fear and force things on others) the better the world will be. |
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Post by soccerloafer on Jan 6, 2022 9:07:20 GMT -5
Plus one on vaccine reactions being under reported. Still diagnosing what is wrong with me after my second vax shot. Headaches, blood pressure spikes, random heart rates. Perfectly healthy with good antibodies from an earlier infection. My mistake for getting the vax. Rest of the family is on hold.
Had an older relative, fairly healthy, stroke out a day after the Moderna second dose. 100% doubt that was reported to VAERS.
Why do you think all these pro players in Europe are collapsing mid-game? The mRNA or protein spike is attacking healthy male hearts.
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Post by bolo on Jan 6, 2022 9:39:56 GMT -5
Have you found that data anywhere? I agree about the obesity problem. …The rest of your rant got flushed. Its hard to find true and accurate data on deaths with comorbidities and covid versus healthy people dying from covid. At this point I'm not naïve enough to believe the fact that we can't readily find this information is just a coincidence. There is indeed an active narrative in the scientific community to push a certain agenda/narrative. Thus data that may put into question some policies are not going to be easy to find. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but being in the scientific field, unfortunately it is very politicized and always has been with egos and agendas trying to push narratives and silence opposing narratives, data, etc.... The science around covid is no different. Six things i think that are being pushed aside that are extremely relevant. 1) We will never get to Covid Zero. The CDC, government, etc... that pushed this narrative to begin with was stupid for doing so. Even with 100% compliance to vaccines this was never going to happen. Yet experts and media are still reluctant to talk about this to get the people that have digested too much panic porn to relax a bit and quit being Karen's up in people's faces. The virus is going to mutate and with any luck it will do what 90% of viruses do get more contagious but less severe and we will learn to live with it just like we do the flu. 2) There are enough studies out now that do indeed show natural immunity to be far superior to vaccine immunity, yet no one in the government or "experts" want to talk about that. They ignore it completely. If we are doing vaccine cards (which I am completely against) then there also needs to be a way to prove prior infection and natural immunity as a valid form of a "card". Some people have legitimate medical reasons on why they can not take the vaccine and those people get lumped into the anti-vaxxers and that isn't the right thing to do with them. 3) There are indeed a lot more vaccine related reactions and deaths than are being publicly reported. This data needs to be in the light so that people can make informed decisions. They are being downplayed, and that doesn't help with trust issues for people unwilling to take it. There have been a couple of peer reviewed journal articles on vaccine reactions, so I'm glad those are finally being published, but they still aren't being talked about. 4) We need to stop with the covid case count as the end all be all statistic to make policy decisions and reactions in general. That statistic without taking into account other statistics like death rate, which variant is the most prevalent, deaths with comorbidities versus health individuals, hospital rate due to covid needs to be separated from hospital rate with people admitted for other things but test positive for covid, etc.... Too much panic porn going on in the media and with some experts, and that does no one any good. 5) Everyone doesn't need to be tested. We don't have enough tests to do that. Asymptomatic people exposed don't need to be tested. The CDC guideline of 5 days of quarantine and then go back to work is a sound policy. No testing should be needed to go back to work or school after 5 days. Testing is useless anyway when people can test positive for weeks after first becoming positive but they are not contagious at that point. 6) The mask mandates aren't doing anything to help. Cloth masks are about 10% effective at most. The only masks that really help are N95 ones, and to a lesser extent surgical masks help a little more than cloth ones. This post, along with your more recent one about the unfortunate reaction your father had to the vaccine, might be the best posts I have ever seen on this board, and obviously they have almost nothing to do with soccer! Thank you for crystallizing what so many of us think and believe but are often shouted down or dismissed if we dare express it. For the record, I have been vaxxed & boosted, as has my wife. My teenage kids have been vaxxed but not boosted, and I have lately been struggling with whether they should be or not, i.e. whether the risks for them, as healthy, active teenagers, outweigh the potential rewards. Luckily none of us had any negative reactions whatsoever to any of our shots so far (beyond a sore arm), but who knows if there are any longer-terms effects that we just haven't seen yet. I will say that the odds on that seem long, but the odds on Covid having any type of negative impact on us- especially the kids- are pretty damn long too. |
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Post by bogan on Jan 12, 2022 20:25:36 GMT -5
Good news.
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Post by rifle on Feb 1, 2022 20:07:36 GMT -5
Plus one on vaccine reactions being under reported. Still diagnosing what is wrong with me after my second vax shot. Headaches, blood pressure spikes, random heart rates. Perfectly healthy with good antibodies from an earlier infection. My mistake for getting the vax. Rest of the family is on hold. Had an older relative, fairly healthy, stroke out a day after the Moderna second dose. 100% doubt that was reported to VAERS. Why do you think all these pro players in Europe are collapsing mid-game? The mRNA or protein spike is attacking healthy male hearts. Or perhaps it’s the coronavirus? Why oh why don’t social network use their contract tracing mechanisms to trace sources of BS and highlight them (as such)? I guess because it is more profitable to monetize stories regardless of truth content… www.yahoo.com/news/falsehood-athletes-dying-covid-vaccines-105226617.html |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Feb 1, 2022 21:35:10 GMT -5
Its hard to find true and accurate data on deaths with comorbidities and covid versus healthy people dying from covid. At this point I'm not naïve enough to believe the fact that we can't readily find this information is just a coincidence. There is indeed an active narrative in the scientific community to push a certain agenda/narrative. Thus data that may put into question some policies are not going to be easy to find. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but being in the scientific field, unfortunately it is very politicized and always has been with egos and agendas trying to push narratives and silence opposing narratives, data, etc.... The science around covid is no different. Six things i think that are being pushed aside that are extremely relevant. 1) We will never get to Covid Zero. The CDC, government, etc... that pushed this narrative to begin with was stupid for doing so. Even with 100% compliance to vaccines this was never going to happen. Yet experts and media are still reluctant to talk about this to get the people that have digested too much panic porn to relax a bit and quit being Karen's up in people's faces. The virus is going to mutate and with any luck it will do what 90% of viruses do get more contagious but less severe and we will learn to live with it just like we do the flu. 2) There are enough studies out now that do indeed show natural immunity to be far superior to vaccine immunity, yet no one in the government or "experts" want to talk about that. They ignore it completely. If we are doing vaccine cards (which I am completely against) then there also needs to be a way to prove prior infection and natural immunity as a valid form of a "card". Some people have legitimate medical reasons on why they can not take the vaccine and those people get lumped into the anti-vaxxers and that isn't the right thing to do with them. 3) There are indeed a lot more vaccine related reactions and deaths than are being publicly reported. This data needs to be in the light so that people can make informed decisions. They are being downplayed, and that doesn't help with trust issues for people unwilling to take it. There have been a couple of peer reviewed journal articles on vaccine reactions, so I'm glad those are finally being published, but they still aren't being talked about. 4) We need to stop with the covid case count as the end all be all statistic to make policy decisions and reactions in general. That statistic without taking into account other statistics like death rate, which variant is the most prevalent, deaths with comorbidities versus health individuals, hospital rate due to covid needs to be separated from hospital rate with people admitted for other things but test positive for covid, etc.... Too much panic porn going on in the media and with some experts, and that does no one any good. 5) Everyone doesn't need to be tested. We don't have enough tests to do that. Asymptomatic people exposed don't need to be tested. The CDC guideline of 5 days of quarantine and then go back to work is a sound policy. No testing should be needed to go back to work or school after 5 days. Testing is useless anyway when people can test positive for weeks after first becoming positive but they are not contagious at that point. 6) The mask mandates aren't doing anything to help. Cloth masks are about 10% effective at most. The only masks that really help are N95 ones, and to a lesser extent surgical masks help a little more than cloth ones. This post, along with your more recent one about the unfortunate reaction your father had to the vaccine, might be the best posts I have ever seen on this board, and obviously they have almost nothing to do with soccer! Thank you for crystallizing what so many of us think and believe but are often shouted down or dismissed if we dare express it. For the record, I have been vaxxed & boosted, as has my wife. My teenage kids have been vaxxed but not boosted, and I have lately been struggling with whether they should be or not, i.e. whether the risks for them, as healthy, active teenagers, outweigh the potential rewards. Luckily none of us had any negative reactions whatsoever to any of our shots so far (beyond a sore arm), but who knows if there are any longer-terms effects that we just haven't seen yet. I will say that the odds on that seem long, but the odds on Covid having any type of negative impact on us- especially the kids- are pretty damn long too. The problem is that people often use a "I got X vaccine and then Y happened to me" as causation. This is not science. It is called anecdotal evidence. I have had patients come to me and tell me they have torn rotator cuffs and labrum tears and arthritis and frozen shoulders due to nurses giving them vaccines "in the wrong place" or "too deep" or other complaints. All of these were pre-covid. Different vaccines. Sometimes flu. Sometimes pneumococcal. Sometimes tetanus. Many have MRI or x-ray evidence that those problems were there well before the vaccine. Sometimes they don't. I am not going to argue that no one ever had an immune response to a vaccine that harmed them. People do. Just as people have immune responses to viruses that harm them. In case no one has been paying attention they just reported that EBV (mononucleosis) causes MS in some patients. Many viruses causes autoimmune responses in people. This has been well documented. Even though the covid vaccine is not a live virus there could still be immune responses that go awry. There are risks for everything. Tylenol can kill you. Water can kill you if you consume too much. Surgeries have complications. All medical treatments have risk/reward. The issue with infectious diseases is the risk is not just to you because you don't know which person will have liver failure from chicken pox or sterile from mumps or deaf and blind from some other virus or dead from pertussis or H. Influenza or paralyzed from polio or have a child with a birth defect from German Measles. Vaccines protect everyone with herd immunity, not just you and your family. Let me ask you a question...would you jump into a lake to save a drowning child that was not yours? How about run into a burning building to save your dog or grandma or neighbor's family member? Vaccines are a public health issue...as much to save friends/ family members and strangers as they are to save you. The lack of altruism of many Americans has gravely saddened me. |
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Post by bolo on Feb 2, 2022 9:45:42 GMT -5
This post, along with your more recent one about the unfortunate reaction your father had to the vaccine, might be the best posts I have ever seen on this board, and obviously they have almost nothing to do with soccer! Thank you for crystallizing what so many of us think and believe but are often shouted down or dismissed if we dare express it. For the record, I have been vaxxed & boosted, as has my wife. My teenage kids have been vaxxed but not boosted, and I have lately been struggling with whether they should be or not, i.e. whether the risks for them, as healthy, active teenagers, outweigh the potential rewards. Luckily none of us had any negative reactions whatsoever to any of our shots so far (beyond a sore arm), but who knows if there are any longer-terms effects that we just haven't seen yet. I will say that the odds on that seem long, but the odds on Covid having any type of negative impact on us- especially the kids- are pretty damn long too. The problem is that people often use a "I got X vaccine and then Y happened to me" as causation. This is not science. It is called anecdotal evidence. I have had patients come to me and tell me they have torn rotator cuffs and labrum tears and arthritis and frozen shoulders due to nurses giving them vaccines "in the wrong place" or "too deep" or other complaints. All of these were pre-covid. Different vaccines. Sometimes flu. Sometimes pneumococcal. Sometimes tetanus. Many have MRI or x-ray evidence that those problems were there well before the vaccine. Sometimes they don't. I am not going to argue that no one ever had an immune response to a vaccine that harmed them. People do. Just as people have immune responses to viruses that harm them. In case no one has been paying attention they just reported that EBV (mononucleosis) causes MS in some patients. Many viruses causes autoimmune responses in people. This has been well documented. Even though the covid vaccine is not a live virus there could still be immune responses that go awry. There are risks for everything. Tylenol can kill you. Water can kill you if you consume too much. Surgeries have complications. All medical treatments have risk/reward. The issue with infectious diseases is the risk is not just to you because you don't know which person will have liver failure from chicken pox or sterile from mumps or deaf and blind from some other virus or dead from pertussis or H. Influenza or paralyzed from polio or have a child with a birth defect from German Measles. Vaccines protect everyone with herd immunity, not just you and your family. Let me ask you a question...would you jump into a lake to save a drowning child that was not yours? How about run into a burning building to save your dog or grandma or neighbor's family member? Vaccines are a public health issue...as much to save friends/ family members and strangers as they are to save you. The lack of altruism of many Americans has gravely saddened me. Yes, I would jump into a lake or run into a burning building to save someone else. Honestly though, who in their right mind would ever answer that question differently? But I do have a bit of a disagreement with you on widespread adoption of this particular vaccine/booster being a "public health issue" at this point. Because right now, with the current Omicron variant, what has been clearly demonstrated is that the vaccine & booster do not effectively prevent people from catching Covid. So whether I am vaxxed & boosted really has very little impact on whether you as a vaxxed & boosted person can catch it from me. Right? Is that what you're getting at? That if someone doesn't get vaxxed, they're somehow putting everyone else in danger because they might spread Covid to them? I'm sorry but that's just not accurate as we know things today. It might have seemed or even actually been accurate a year ago, when the vaccines first became widely available, but first with the Delta & now the Omicron variants, it has been clearly demonstrated that these vaccines and boosters DO NOT inhibit the spread like we were originally promised they would. Look at Israel, with one of the highest vaccination rates in the world, plus not only extremely high adoption of a booster but even a second booster (4 shots total) that the majority of the population has received this year. They have seen an explosion in Covid cases since the start of the year, dwarfing anything seen over the previous two years. At the end of January they had a rolling 7-day average of almost 73K cases per day. The highest previous 7-day average at any point during the pandemic was around 9,700 per day in early September. And again, this is possibly the most heavily vaccinated & boosted population in the entire world. So please tell me again how vaccines & boosters are stopping the spread & proving "altruism"? healthpolicy-watch.news/israel-fourth-covid-booster-ineffective/www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/Now, I will fully agree that vaccines & boosters do a fantastic job of preventing severe cases of Covid and bad outcomes (hospitalizations & deaths), and it can be argued that the more people have to be hospitalized for Covid, the less clinical resources (docs, nurses, beds, supplies, etc.) are available to care for other patients. And I can get on board with that to an extent. But that doesn't seem to be what you were describing at all. You were saying that people that refuse to get vaxxed & boosted are selfish and stupid because they are more likely to spread Covid to others. Which simply is not true. And like many, you completely ignore the protection provided by prior infection, which has been shown over & over to offer superior protection from Covid infection than any vaccine or booster. But the government, businesses, etc. can't demand proof of prior infection from anyone, so let's just ignore that & stick with proof of the less effective vaccines to be allowed to be fully a part of society, I guess. At least we can track that more easily and make ourselves feel like we're doing something. |
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Post by rifle on Feb 2, 2022 9:54:00 GMT -5
The problem is that people often use a "I got X vaccine and then Y happened to me" as causation. This is not science. It is called anecdotal evidence. I have had patients come to me and tell me they have torn rotator cuffs and labrum tears and arthritis and frozen shoulders due to nurses giving them vaccines "in the wrong place" or "too deep" or other complaints. All of these were pre-covid. Different vaccines. Sometimes flu. Sometimes pneumococcal. Sometimes tetanus. Many have MRI or x-ray evidence that those problems were there well before the vaccine. Sometimes they don't. I am not going to argue that no one ever had an immune response to a vaccine that harmed them. People do. Just as people have immune responses to viruses that harm them. In case no one has been paying attention they just reported that EBV (mononucleosis) causes MS in some patients. Many viruses causes autoimmune responses in people. This has been well documented. Even though the covid vaccine is not a live virus there could still be immune responses that go awry. There are risks for everything. Tylenol can kill you. Water can kill you if you consume too much. Surgeries have complications. All medical treatments have risk/reward. The issue with infectious diseases is the risk is not just to you because you don't know which person will have liver failure from chicken pox or sterile from mumps or deaf and blind from some other virus or dead from pertussis or H. Influenza or paralyzed from polio or have a child with a birth defect from German Measles. Vaccines protect everyone with herd immunity, not just you and your family. Let me ask you a question...would you jump into a lake to save a drowning child that was not yours? How about run into a burning building to save your dog or grandma or neighbor's family member? Vaccines are a public health issue...as much to save friends/ family members and strangers as they are to save you. The lack of altruism of many Americans has gravely saddened me. Yes, I would jump into a lake or run into a burning building to save someone else. Honestly though, who in their right mind would ever answer that question differently? But I do have a bit of a disagreement with you on widespread adoption of this particular vaccine/booster being a "public health issue" at this point. Because right now, with the current Omicron variant, what has been clearly demonstrated is that the vaccine & booster do not effectively prevent people from catching Covid. So whether I am vaxxed & boosted really has very little impact on whether you as a vaxxed & boosted person can catch it from me. Right? Is that what you're getting at? That if someone doesn't get vaxxed, they're somehow putting everyone else in danger because they might spread Covid to them? I'm sorry but that's just not accurate as we know things today. It might have seemed or even actually been accurate a year ago, when the vaccines first became widely available, but first with the Delta & now the Omicron variants, it has been clearly demonstrated that these vaccines and boosters DO NOT inhibit the spread like we were originally promised they would. Look at Israel, with one of the highest vaccination rates in the world, plus not only extremely high adoption of a booster but even a second booster (4 shots total) that the majority of the population has received this year. They have seen an explosion in Covid cases since the start of the year, dwarfing anything seen over the previous two years. At the end of January they had a rolling 7-day average of almost 73K cases per day. The highest previous 7-day average at any point during the pandemic was around 9,700 per day in early September. And again, this is possibly the most heavily vaccinated & boosted population in the entire world. So please tell me again how vaccines & boosters are stopping the spread & proving "altruism"? healthpolicy-watch.news/israel-fourth-covid-booster-ineffective/www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/Now, I will fully agree that vaccines & boosters do a fantastic job of preventing severe cases of Covid and bad outcomes (hospitalizations & deaths), and it can be argued that the more people have to be hospitalized for Covid, the less clinical resources (docs, nurses, beds, supplies, etc.) are available to care for other patients. And I can get on board with that to an extent. But that doesn't seem to be what you were describing at all. You were saying that people that refuse to get vaxxed & boosted are selfish and stupid because they are more likely to spread Covid to others. Which simply is not true. And like many, you completely ignore the protection provided by prior infection, which has been shown over & over to offer superior protection from Covid infection than any vaccine or booster. But the government, businesses, etc. can't demand proof of prior infection from anyone, so let's just ignore that & stick with proof of the less effective vaccines to be allowed to be fully a part of society, I guess. At least we can track that more easily and make ourselves feel like we're doing something. This is the entire point. If you wish to take your chances like so many others previously and currently clogging the hospitals and unnecessarily endangering staff, I guess that is your entitlement. |
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Post by soccergurl on Feb 2, 2022 10:24:36 GMT -5
Have you found that data anywhere? I agree about the obesity problem. …The rest of your rant got flushed. Its hard to find true and accurate data on deaths with comorbidities and covid versus healthy people dying from covid. At this point I'm not naïve enough to believe the fact that we can't readily find this information is just a coincidence. There is indeed an active narrative in the scientific community to push a certain agenda/narrative. Thus data that may put into question some policies are not going to be easy to find. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but being in the scientific field, unfortunately it is very politicized and always has been with egos and agendas trying to push narratives and silence opposing narratives, data, etc.... The science around covid is no different. Six things i think that are being pushed aside that are extremely relevant. 1) We will never get to Covid Zero. The CDC, government, etc... that pushed this narrative to begin with was stupid for doing so. Even with 100% compliance to vaccines this was never going to happen. Yet experts and media are still reluctant to talk about this to get the people that have digested too much panic porn to relax a bit and quit being Karen's up in people's faces. The virus is going to mutate and with any luck it will do what 90% of viruses do get more contagious but less severe and we will learn to live with it just like we do the flu. 2) There are enough studies out now that do indeed show natural immunity to be far superior to vaccine immunity, yet no one in the government or "experts" want to talk about that. They ignore it completely. If we are doing vaccine cards (which I am completely against) then there also needs to be a way to prove prior infection and natural immunity as a valid form of a "card". Some people have legitimate medical reasons on why they can not take the vaccine and those people get lumped into the anti-vaxxers and that isn't the right thing to do with them. 3) There are indeed a lot more vaccine related reactions and deaths than are being publicly reported. This data needs to be in the light so that people can make informed decisions. They are being downplayed, and that doesn't help with trust issues for people unwilling to take it. There have been a couple of peer reviewed journal articles on vaccine reactions, so I'm glad those are finally being published, but they still aren't being talked about. 4) We need to stop with the covid case count as the end all be all statistic to make policy decisions and reactions in general. That statistic without taking into account other statistics like death rate, which variant is the most prevalent, deaths with comorbidities versus health individuals, hospital rate due to covid needs to be separated from hospital rate with people admitted for other things but test positive for covid, etc.... Too much panic porn going on in the media and with some experts, and that does no one any good. 5) Everyone doesn't need to be tested. We don't have enough tests to do that. Asymptomatic people exposed don't need to be tested. The CDC guideline of 5 days of quarantine and then go back to work is a sound policy. No testing should be needed to go back to work or school after 5 days. Testing is useless anyway when people can test positive for weeks after first becoming positive but they are not contagious at that point. 6) The mask mandates aren't doing anything to help. Cloth masks are about 10% effective at most. The only masks that really help are N95 ones, and to a lesser extent surgical masks help a little more than cloth ones. Me thinks the Doc is in the house and knows it all, listen up minions 😷 |
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Post by bolo on Feb 2, 2022 11:43:08 GMT -5
Yes, I would jump into a lake or run into a burning building to save someone else. Honestly though, who in their right mind would ever answer that question differently? But I do have a bit of a disagreement with you on widespread adoption of this particular vaccine/booster being a "public health issue" at this point. Because right now, with the current Omicron variant, what has been clearly demonstrated is that the vaccine & booster do not effectively prevent people from catching Covid. So whether I am vaxxed & boosted really has very little impact on whether you as a vaxxed & boosted person can catch it from me. Right? Is that what you're getting at? That if someone doesn't get vaxxed, they're somehow putting everyone else in danger because they might spread Covid to them? I'm sorry but that's just not accurate as we know things today. It might have seemed or even actually been accurate a year ago, when the vaccines first became widely available, but first with the Delta & now the Omicron variants, it has been clearly demonstrated that these vaccines and boosters DO NOT inhibit the spread like we were originally promised they would. Look at Israel, with one of the highest vaccination rates in the world, plus not only extremely high adoption of a booster but even a second booster (4 shots total) that the majority of the population has received this year. They have seen an explosion in Covid cases since the start of the year, dwarfing anything seen over the previous two years. At the end of January they had a rolling 7-day average of almost 73K cases per day. The highest previous 7-day average at any point during the pandemic was around 9,700 per day in early September. And again, this is possibly the most heavily vaccinated & boosted population in the entire world. So please tell me again how vaccines & boosters are stopping the spread & proving "altruism"? healthpolicy-watch.news/israel-fourth-covid-booster-ineffective/www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/Now, I will fully agree that vaccines & boosters do a fantastic job of preventing severe cases of Covid and bad outcomes (hospitalizations & deaths), and it can be argued that the more people have to be hospitalized for Covid, the less clinical resources (docs, nurses, beds, supplies, etc.) are available to care for other patients. And I can get on board with that to an extent. But that doesn't seem to be what you were describing at all. You were saying that people that refuse to get vaxxed & boosted are selfish and stupid because they are more likely to spread Covid to others. Which simply is not true. And like many, you completely ignore the protection provided by prior infection, which has been shown over & over to offer superior protection from Covid infection than any vaccine or booster. But the government, businesses, etc. can't demand proof of prior infection from anyone, so let's just ignore that & stick with proof of the less effective vaccines to be allowed to be fully a part of society, I guess. At least we can track that more easily and make ourselves feel like we're doing something. This is the entire point. If you wish to take your chances like so many others previously and currently clogging the hospitals and unnecessarily endangering staff, I guess that is your entitlement. Like I said, I get that, to an extent. But nowadays we as a society rarely demonize any group of people like certain segments of our society are doing with the un-vaxxed these days. In the same vein, no one talks about denying medical treatment to obese people, smokers, drug addicts, the homeless, etc. that also clog our hospitals and take up an outsized share of our limited medical resources, even though many of those issues result from a personal choice, much like the choice to get vaccinated for Covid (or the flu, or pneumonia, etc.) or not. The seasonal flu typically kills tens of thousands of Americans each year, and yet there's never been calls to essentially excommunicate those who refuse to get the flu vaccine from society, or to deny them medical care because of that choice. And again, to clarify, I am vaxxed & boosted. That was my choice & as someone who has (to my knowledge) not had Covid yet, made the most sense for me personally. |
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Post by rifle on Feb 2, 2022 13:05:20 GMT -5
This is the entire point. If you wish to take your chances like so many others previously and currently clogging the hospitals and unnecessarily endangering staff, I guess that is your entitlement. Like I said, I get that, to an extent. But nowadays we as a society rarely demonize any group of people like certain segments of our society are doing with the un-vaxxed these days. In the same vein, no one talks about denying medical treatment to obese people, smokers, drug addicts, the homeless, etc. that also clog our hospitals and take up an outsized share of our limited medical resources, even though many of those issues result from a personal choice, much like the choice to get vaccinated for Covid (or the flu, or pneumonia, etc.) or not. The seasonal flu typically kills tens of thousands of Americans each year, and yet there's never been calls to essentially excommunicate those who refuse to get the flu vaccine from society, or to deny them medical care because of that choice. And again, to clarify, I am vaxxed & boosted. That was my choice & as someone who has (to my knowledge) not had Covid yet, made the most sense for me personally. …me too. Plus many years of influenza vax since my wife works with cancer patients every day. What sucks the most is public health information muddied by politics and a need to “look strong”. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Feb 2, 2022 13:23:43 GMT -5
Me thinks the Doc is in the house and knows it all, listen up minions 😷 Me thinks[sic] you are an idiot that doesn't know how to speak English. No one listens to you as no one can make any sense of anything you ever write on here except for the fact that you post nothing of worth and usually it is to "try" to troll people unsuccessfully. I'm just the only a-hole that will tell you that to your face. The rest of the people on here just ignore you. |
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Post by rifle on Feb 2, 2022 18:18:25 GMT -5
Me thinks the Doc is in the house and knows it all, listen up minions 😷 Me thinks[sic] you are an idiot that doesn't know how to speak English. No one listens to you as no one can make any sense of anything you ever write on here except for the fact that you post nothing of worth and usually it is to "try" to troll people unsuccessfully. I'm just the only a-hole that will tell you that to your face. The rest of the people on here just ignore you. looks like the tolling worked. I appreciate your input slick, you have opinions and facts that are legit. I also find soccergurl humorous. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Feb 3, 2022 8:41:13 GMT -5
Me thinks[sic] you are an idiot that doesn't know how to speak English. No one listens to you as no one can make any sense of anything you ever write on here except for the fact that you post nothing of worth and usually it is to "try" to troll people unsuccessfully. I'm just the only a-hole that will tell you that to your face. The rest of the people on here just ignore you. looks like the tolling worked. I appreciate your input slick, you have opinions and facts that are legit. I also find soccergurl humorous. Oh I purposely mess with her as she is purposely seeking out my posts to always post some nonsense. If there was a true block button in this forum where I wouldn't have to see her crap I would have used it long ago, as I'm sure some would use it on me!  |
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