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Post by slickdaddy96 on Apr 25, 2022 9:58:09 GMT -5
Hello Fellow Referees (others can chime in as well of course),
There has been a lot of debate with fellow referees when discussing along with arguments from coaches, players, and fans alike. The newer hand ball rules I think were supposed to make it easier on the referees, but instead I think because of lack of coach, player, and fan education and yes even some referees that are still kind of going by the old rules I think it is has been a disaster.
My understanding of the new hand ball / handling rules is that balls popped up from dribbles of a player already in possession of the ball is not a infraction. Also balls getting hit into a player are not an infraction either unless the player has her hands above her shoulders or if making her body bigger also the referee has to take into account the distance the player was before the ball hit her from a pass or kick from another player (I interpret that as did the player have time to know the ball was coming and make sure her hands/arms were not out etc...).
Also it seems is stipulates that a player can not get possession from a handball, but a ball glancing off someone's arm and going to a teammate is not a handball as long as anything wasn't wrong listed above. Also it says that a handball can not lead to an immediate goal or a good goal scoring opportunity. (I would interpret that as very close to the goal...likely within the 18 or close to it and causing an immediate goal or gaining possession that caused an immediate goal.
So with all of that in mind there is a lot of middle of the field stuff now that isn't being called based on my interpretation of the rules as they are deflections of balls hit into another player, or hitting the player's hand as they dribble, etc... and of course coaches, fans, players are all yelling hand ball.
I have an example yesterday where I was watching a game and a sudden clearance or pass up field hit an opposing attacking player pretty hard in the middle of the chest, as the ball was coming to her she reacted as a lot of girls do with putting her arms very close in front of her chest, they were not elevated above her shoulders and by doing this she did not make herself bigger and it bounced off her arms and deflected on to another attacking player and they restarted their attack. The player was half-way between the center circle and the 18. The referee did not call a handball, and I think he was right by not doing so based on my interpretation of the newer rules. What do you all think? A goal was not scored so it was not as big of a controversy as the parents and coaches were making it, but I thought he was correct there. I then saw the coach berate the center referee (a 15-16 year old kid that I know for a fact has 5 years of experience referee and is pretty dang good) about how he missed 5-6 handballs. I had watched the entire game and the handballs that were called were correct and the ones that he didn't call in my opinion were correct as well based on the rules as they are written now and I had absolutely no dog in the fight watching this game. I was just watching from a neutral prospective.
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Post by 0507coop23dad on Apr 25, 2022 10:25:07 GMT -5
I’ve completely given up on consistency with the interpretation put in place this year. My rule of thumb is unless a field player actually catches the ball, I don’t expect a call.
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Post by notcrazysoccerdad on Apr 25, 2022 10:45:07 GMT -5
My interpretation is pretty close to yours. Basically, I will let play continue on any contact inside the frame of the body unless there is obvious intent to touch the ball (i.e., it isn't defensive).
Only difference might be on dribbling - if the ball pops up and hits the hand/arm I would definitely call it if the hand is outside the frame of the body.
Parents/coaches are going to yell at refs no matter how they call the game...
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Apr 25, 2022 10:57:02 GMT -5
My interpretation is pretty close to yours. Basically, I will let play continue on any contact inside the frame of the body unless there is obvious intent to touch the ball (i.e., it isn't defensive). Only difference might be on dribbling - if the ball pops up and hits the hand/arm I would definitely call it if the hand is outside the frame of the body. Parents/coaches are going to yell at refs no matter how they call the game... The new rules (and/or the new USSF training refresher does) specifically address the ball popping up while dribbling though. Its not deliberate thus not a handball unless there is an immediate goal scored or causes an immediate goal scoring opportunity. I agree with this interpretation because most times when it pops up the player dribbling has their arms in a natural position anyway. Again there is some criteria of the player not gaining possession from a handball, but I also would only call that if the player was in an unnatural stance with their arms. If they are down at his/her side and it pops down in front of them and they gain possession that isn't a handball in my opinion as their hands were in a natural position. The only caveat on that would be again if there was an immediate goal scored or it causes a promising goal scoring attack close to the goal which results in a goal off it hitting their hand even if it was in a natural position per what the rules say. I think I am not describing it very well, but hopefully you are understanding me. Regardless I think all coaches should be required to take and/or watch the new USSF grassroots training part about handling/hand balls and watch all the videos they give as examples of and examples of no handball. Parents should as well. I think it would lead to less yelling at the referee. |
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Post by bogan on Apr 25, 2022 11:11:17 GMT -5
From a parent perspective, I don’t care how’s it’s called as long as it’s consistent throughout the game.
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Post by soccerloafer on Apr 25, 2022 12:08:47 GMT -5
As a referee, parent, former coach and player, I try to think about what makes sense for the game. That includes many factors, including level of play, situation of the game, location on the field. Lower level gets a lot more leeway, higher level expect to be craftier in selling contact.
Did the player move a body part to hit the ball? Was a body part in an unnatural position? Was there an advantage gained? If it did hit a hand/arm, what would it have hit otherwise (hand on thigh, arm on chest, etc)? Could the player have done anything to avoid contact (ball blasted at an outstretched arm from 3 yards away)?
Generally, for a PK, I want to see the defender making a diving goal line save... not exactly, but the question - is that ball/hand contact worthy of changing the outcome of the game?
Overall, I like the direction the new rules are heading. More training and consistency would be nice. Hopefully that will come over time.
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Post by 0507coop23dad on Apr 25, 2022 12:59:38 GMT -5
Seriously though, with all the difficulty there is for referees in any sport I don’t understand why something so easy was left up to interpretation of intent. Just like the skill of not letting a first touch tick off out of bounds - they player didn’t intend for that to happen, so should possession be retained? Of course not. It’s a skill not to kick the ball up into your hand/arm. It has created even more animus toward referees that are actually just doing the best they can trying to gauge intent. The obvious fix is simply not to allow the touch when the arm is away from the body. Period. Many crafty players already take advantage knowing they likely won’t get called and we all can agree soccer players are the best actors in sport. Can you imagine a walk in baseball not being awarded because, after all, that pitcher didn’t intend to throw that 4th ball. And that basketball player didn’t intend to foul that guy. And that lineman didn’t mean to hold that linebacker. But it’s okay to let calls that determine outcomes of meaningful soccer games, that in some cases players have worked years toward playing in, be left to the determination of intent. That is just too much for a referee to be responsible for and a cut and dried law of soccer would better serve everyone.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 25, 2022 13:04:38 GMT -5
Seriously though, with all the difficulty there is for referees in any sport I don’t understand why something so easy was left up to interpretation of intent. Just like the skill of not letting a first touch tick off out of bounds - they player didn’t intend for that to happen, so should possession be retained? Of course not. It’s a skill not to kick the ball up into your hand/arm. It has created even more animus toward referees that are actually just doing the best they can trying to gauge intent. The obvious fix is simply not to allow the touch when the arm is away from the body. Period. Many crafty players already take advantage knowing they likely won’t get called and we all can agree soccer players are the best actors in sport. Can you imagine a walk in baseball not being awarded because, after all, that pitcher didn’t intend to throw that 4th ball. And that basketball player didn’t intend to foul that guy. And that lineman didn’t mean to hold that linebacker. But it’s okay to let calls that determine outcomes of meaningful soccer games, that in some cases players have worked years toward playing in, be left to the determination of intent. That is just too much for a referee to be responsible for and a cut and dried law of soccer would better serve everyone. the basketball analogy is good, but the better one is --- when the ball is kicked in basketball -- it's almost always called a kick ball, even when unintentional, they almost always call it a kick ball |
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Post by soccerloafer on Apr 25, 2022 13:09:38 GMT -5
Seriously though, with all the difficulty there is for referees in any sport I don’t understand why something so easy was left up to interpretation of intent. Just like the skill of not letting a first touch tick off out of bounds - they player didn’t intend for that to happen, so should possession be retained? Of course not. It’s a skill not to kick the ball up into your hand/arm. It has created even more animus toward referees that are actually just doing the best they can trying to gauge intent. The obvious fix is simply not to allow the touch when the arm is away from the body. Period. Many crafty players already take advantage knowing they likely won’t get called and we all can agree soccer players are the best actors in sport. Can you imagine a walk in baseball not being awarded because, after all, that pitcher didn’t intend to throw that 4th ball. And that basketball player didn’t intend to foul that guy. And that lineman didn’t mean to hold that linebacker. But it’s okay to let calls that determine outcomes of meaningful soccer games, that in some cases players have worked years toward playing in, be left to the determination of intent. That is just too much for a referee to be responsible for and a cut and dried law of soccer would better serve everyone. This is why soccer is different than other sports. Spirt of the game - allows for referee discretion based on what's needed in a particular game. I don't want soccer officiated like basketball or football. Those games have way to many interruptions for trifling infractions that don't impact the game (minor holding 50 yards away from a kick return, lineman twitches and no one reacts, still a penalty). Under the old regime, too many games were decided by trifling ball / hand contact that was completely unavoidable. The new rules, once given time to standardize, are much better for the game. |
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Post by soccerloafer on Apr 25, 2022 13:10:43 GMT -5
Seriously though, with all the difficulty there is for referees in any sport I don’t understand why something so easy was left up to interpretation of intent. Just like the skill of not letting a first touch tick off out of bounds - they player didn’t intend for that to happen, so should possession be retained? Of course not. It’s a skill not to kick the ball up into your hand/arm. It has created even more animus toward referees that are actually just doing the best they can trying to gauge intent. The obvious fix is simply not to allow the touch when the arm is away from the body. Period. Many crafty players already take advantage knowing they likely won’t get called and we all can agree soccer players are the best actors in sport. Can you imagine a walk in baseball not being awarded because, after all, that pitcher didn’t intend to throw that 4th ball. And that basketball player didn’t intend to foul that guy. And that lineman didn’t mean to hold that linebacker. But it’s okay to let calls that determine outcomes of meaningful soccer games, that in some cases players have worked years toward playing in, be left to the determination of intent. That is just too much for a referee to be responsible for and a cut and dried law of soccer would better serve everyone. the basketball analogy is good, but the better one is --- when the ball is kicked in basketball -- it's almost always called a kick ball, even when unintentional, they almost always call it a kick ball But - the restart for a kicked ball doesn't result in a 90% chance of a game changing goal (handling in the box = pk = high chance of goal). Do we really want that? |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Apr 25, 2022 13:14:21 GMT -5
Well that's entire another concept, awarding PKS for any foul in the box is a crazy idea when it's often so difficult to score goals.
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Post by youthsoccerdad on Apr 25, 2022 14:03:06 GMT -5
Hello Fellow Referees (others can chime in as well of course), There has been a lot of debate with fellow referees when discussing along with arguments from coaches, players, and fans alike. The newer hand ball rules I think were supposed to make it easier on the referees, but instead I think because of lack of coach, player, and fan education and yes even some referees that are still kind of going by the old rules I think it is has been a disaster. My understanding of the new hand ball / handling rules is that balls popped up from dribbles of a player already in possession of the ball is not a infraction. Also balls getting hit into a player are not an infraction either unless the player has her hands above her shoulders or if making her body bigger also the referee has to take into account the distance the player was before the ball hit her from a pass or kick from another player (I interpret that as did the player have time to know the ball was coming and make sure her hands/arms were not out etc...). Also it seems is stipulates that a player can not get possession from a handball, but a ball glancing off someone's arm and going to a teammate is not a handball as long as anything wasn't wrong listed above. Also it says that a handball can not lead to an immediate goal or a good goal scoring opportunity. (I would interpret that as very close to the goal...likely within the 18 or close to it and causing an immediate goal or gaining possession that caused an immediate goal. So with all of that in mind there is a lot of middle of the field stuff now that isn't being called based on my interpretation of the rules as they are deflections of balls hit into another player, or hitting the player's hand as they dribble, etc... and of course coaches, fans, players are all yelling hand ball. I have an example yesterday where I was watching a game and a sudden clearance or pass up field hit an opposing attacking player pretty hard in the middle of the chest, as the ball was coming to her she reacted as a lot of girls do with putting her arms very close in front of her chest, they were not elevated above her shoulders and by doing this she did not make herself bigger and it bounced off her arms and deflected on to another attacking player and they restarted their attack. The player was half-way between the center circle and the 18. The referee did not call a handball, and I think he was right by not doing so based on my interpretation of the newer rules. What do you all think? A goal was not scored so it was not as big of a controversy as the parents and coaches were making it, but I thought he was correct there. I then saw the coach berate the center referee (a 15-16 year old kid that I know for a fact has 5 years of experience referee and is pretty dang good) about how he missed 5-6 handballs. I had watched the entire game and the handballs that were called were correct and the ones that he didn't call in my opinion were correct as well based on the rules as they are written now and I had absolutely no dog in the fight watching this game. I was just watching from a neutral prospective. Usually best just not to call handballs against defenders and really just strikers or attacking mids. No reason to let a team score off a direct/pk, ruins the spirit of the game. |
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Post by soccerloafer on Apr 25, 2022 14:28:30 GMT -5
Ok - my point is that too many trifling 'handballs' with no impact on play are called in the box, resulting in a game changing situation. Let's not go crazy with my statements. Online never translates as well as a real conversation.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Apr 25, 2022 15:26:41 GMT -5
Hello Fellow Referees (others can chime in as well of course), There has been a lot of debate with fellow referees when discussing along with arguments from coaches, players, and fans alike. The newer hand ball rules I think were supposed to make it easier on the referees, but instead I think because of lack of coach, player, and fan education and yes even some referees that are still kind of going by the old rules I think it is has been a disaster. My understanding of the new hand ball / handling rules is that balls popped up from dribbles of a player already in possession of the ball is not a infraction. Also balls getting hit into a player are not an infraction either unless the player has her hands above her shoulders or if making her body bigger also the referee has to take into account the distance the player was before the ball hit her from a pass or kick from another player (I interpret that as did the player have time to know the ball was coming and make sure her hands/arms were not out etc...). Also it seems is stipulates that a player can not get possession from a handball, but a ball glancing off someone's arm and going to a teammate is not a handball as long as anything wasn't wrong listed above. Also it says that a handball can not lead to an immediate goal or a good goal scoring opportunity. (I would interpret that as very close to the goal...likely within the 18 or close to it and causing an immediate goal or gaining possession that caused an immediate goal. So with all of that in mind there is a lot of middle of the field stuff now that isn't being called based on my interpretation of the rules as they are deflections of balls hit into another player, or hitting the player's hand as they dribble, etc... and of course coaches, fans, players are all yelling hand ball. I have an example yesterday where I was watching a game and a sudden clearance or pass up field hit an opposing attacking player pretty hard in the middle of the chest, as the ball was coming to her she reacted as a lot of girls do with putting her arms very close in front of her chest, they were not elevated above her shoulders and by doing this she did not make herself bigger and it bounced off her arms and deflected on to another attacking player and they restarted their attack. The player was half-way between the center circle and the 18. The referee did not call a handball, and I think he was right by not doing so based on my interpretation of the newer rules. What do you all think? A goal was not scored so it was not as big of a controversy as the parents and coaches were making it, but I thought he was correct there. I then saw the coach berate the center referee (a 15-16 year old kid that I know for a fact has 5 years of experience referee and is pretty dang good) about how he missed 5-6 handballs. I had watched the entire game and the handballs that were called were correct and the ones that he didn't call in my opinion were correct as well based on the rules as they are written now and I had absolutely no dog in the fight watching this game. I was just watching from a neutral prospective. Usually best just not to call handballs against defenders and really just strikers or attacking mids. No reason to let a team score off a direct/pk, ruins the spirit of the game. The situation above I was talking about was a defender clearing or passing the ball up the field. The ball came very forcibly toward a Striker or Mid of the attacking team where she put her arms in front of her chest but close to her chest in protection type reaction. It bounced off her (had her hands not been there it likely would have knocked the wind out of her) and then bounced to the left toward another attacking player. This wasn't a defensive hand ball. I am very selective of defensive hand ball especially in and around the box. It has to be pretty concrete for me to call that type of handball on a defensive player. That being said I share the same thoughts on offensive players as well. The new rules I think allow play to continue without as someone else said worrying about things that really do nothing to change the outcome of the game. I was already routinely ignoring even under the old rules hand balls by one team that ended up giving advantage to the other team similar to allowing an "advantage" play on a foul. I think the issue is that right now I am seeing it all over the place referee wise being called or not called from game to game and from referee to referee. I think a lot of referees are still stuck in old rules. I mean I still see referees doing contested drop balls, and not giving the ball to the keeper in the 18 when there is a drop ball in the box as the new rules state has to happen. If I am officiating with them I will mentor them and tell them what was done wrong. I don't generally see adults doing this type of stuff with the drop ball. Its teenagers and college aged referees. Now on the other hand the handball stuff I see a lot of older referees still calling handballs that by the new rules should not be called a handball anymore. |
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Post by rifle on Apr 25, 2022 17:24:49 GMT -5
Can you show an example of dribbling and having contact with the hand? Maybe link a video from a referee curriculum?
I like to think that my mental calculus includes considering the outcome. Did the ball deflect from your hand directly into your control.. resulting in an immediate advantage?
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Post by mightydawg on Apr 25, 2022 18:01:57 GMT -5
What I think of is a first touch that pops into the air and then rolls down a players arm. Not really used to control the ball but touches the arm.
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Post by rifle on Apr 25, 2022 18:39:09 GMT -5
What I think of is a first touch that pops into the air and then rolls down a players arm. Not really used to control the ball but touches the arm. I think of the ball that pops straight up INTO the fingers when arms are in natural position (off of a loose first touch) more than one that pops up high and “rolls down”. I don’t consider either scenario to be “dribbling” so I am still curious about that aspect. IIRC what I described was instructed as “not handling” a couple years ago but now I think there are added nuances. My assignor is on this board and I shouldn’t be admitting I’m not sure - but it isn’t what it isn’t. Asking dumb questions at work has served me pretty well over the years. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Apr 26, 2022 9:19:09 GMT -5
Can you show an example of dribbling and having contact with the hand? Maybe link a video from a referee curriculum? I like to think that my mental calculus includes considering the outcome. Did the ball deflect from your hand directly into your control.. resulting in an immediate advantage? I'm not talking about gaining possession from a handball. That is covered specifically in the rules as you said gives an immediate advantage. I'm talking about already in possession and dribbling down the field and the turf or field (as we all know some of these fields are less than stellar for ball control) pops up as the person is dribbling down the field. That is said to not be a handball anymore. Not to mention I rarely would call that previously anyway because most times when people are dribbling down the field their hands are down in a natural position anyway. I think this was clarified because some referees were saying a handball off a dribble where they were already in possession constituted an immediate advantage but in reality the advantage already existed before the ball popped up and hit the player's hand. The fact that the ball popped up off a dribble and then back down to the player's feet did not create any more of an advantage. I think the refresh training has several videos. I don't know how to link those though. However in another instance lets say a ball hits an attacking players hand due to a kick/pass/clearance by a defender in a pretty close proximity, supposedly if that ball then deflects over to another attacking player and that player scores it specifically says that is not a handball anymore unless the player it deflected off of had their hands higher than their shoulders or deliberately touched it. |
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Post by Respect on Apr 26, 2022 19:38:31 GMT -5
Usually best just not to call handballs against defenders and really just strikers or attacking mids. No reason to let a team score off a direct/pk, ruins the spirit of the game. The situation above I was talking about was a defender clearing or passing the ball up the field. The ball came very forcibly toward a Striker or Mid of the attacking team where she put her arms in front of her chest but close to her chest in protection type reaction. It bounced off her (had her hands not been there it likely would have knocked the wind out of her) and then bounced to the left toward another attacking player. This wasn't a defensive hand ball. I am very selective of defensive hand ball especially in and around the box. It has to be pretty concrete for me to call that type of handball on a defensive player. That being said I share the same thoughts on offensive players as well. The new rules I think allow play to continue without as someone else said worrying about things that really do nothing to change the outcome of the game. I was already routinely ignoring even under the old rules hand balls by one team that ended up giving advantage to the other team similar to allowing an "advantage" play on a foul. I think the issue is that right now I am seeing it all over the place referee wise being called or not called from game to game and from referee to referee. I think a lot of referees are still stuck in old rules. I mean I still see referees doing contested drop balls, and not giving the ball to the keeper in the 18 when there is a drop ball in the box as the new rules state has to happen. If I am officiating with them I will mentor them and tell them what was done wrong. I don't generally see adults doing this type of stuff with the drop ball. Its teenagers and college aged referees. Now on the other hand the handball stuff I see a lot of older referees still calling handballs that by the new rules should not be called a handball anymore. NFHS rules state this is not a handling foul (based on your description of the action): NFHS Soccer Case Book: 9 Fouls & Misconducts: Protecting the head, face, groin or chest from a hard shot or pass using the hands or arms as reflex is not considered deliberate and therefore no handling. Not calling a foul was the proper call. Please note that a) this NFHS rule is not new b) In IFAB FIFA LOTG this is an offence (foul). Law 12: player deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball (even if protecting the head, face, groin, or chest, unless the hand/arm is tight to the head, face, groin, or chest). In other words, the reflex is considered moving the hand/arm towards the ball. |
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Post by 0507coop23dad on Apr 26, 2022 20:50:11 GMT -5
You refs have GOT to stop determining outcomes of games. Happened all over Atlanta tonight. Nobody gives a crap about the little stuff. Just use some common sense and try not to be freaking noticed. Just a piss poor job across the board tonight. It’s all on video - do you guys even get reviewed? You must not. And I don’t have a kid still playing, as their team got beat last week because the offense never got on the bus to play rec ball in Lee County. The refs were fine down there. If I was a player, parent, or coach tonight, I might be a bit perturbed. But go ahead and get back to your riveting art-of-the-hand-ball-call discussion. Good day, sir.
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Post by mightydawg on Apr 26, 2022 21:47:50 GMT -5
I am not a ref but it gets tiresome of people constantly berating and criticizing refs and saying that they are deciding games. I have yet to see a ref decide a game. Do refs make mistakes, sure. Do those bad calls sometimes result in goals, yes. But those are not what decides games. For every bad call by a ref, there are hundreds of bad touches, bad passes, poor positioning, poor decisions and missed opportunities by the players. The players are not without fault, the coaching decisions are not without blame so why do you chose to blame the ref instead of the hundreds of other things that happen in a game that leads to the result?
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Post by rifle on Apr 27, 2022 3:26:39 GMT -5
You refs have GOT to stop determining outcomes of games. Happened all over Atlanta tonight. Nobody gives a crap about the little stuff. Just use some common sense and try not to be freaking noticed. Just a piss poor job across the board tonight. It’s all on video - do you guys even get reviewed? You must not. And I don’t have a kid still playing, as their team got beat last week because the offense never got on the bus to play rec ball in Lee County. The refs were fine down there. If I was a player, parent, or coach tonight, I might be a bit perturbed. But go ahead and get back to your riveting art-of-the-hand-ball-call discussion. Good day, sir. I wonder why there is such a shortage of referees. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Apr 27, 2022 6:47:26 GMT -5
The situation above I was talking about was a defender clearing or passing the ball up the field. The ball came very forcibly toward a Striker or Mid of the attacking team where she put her arms in front of her chest but close to her chest in protection type reaction. It bounced off her (had her hands not been there it likely would have knocked the wind out of her) and then bounced to the left toward another attacking player. This wasn't a defensive hand ball. I am very selective of defensive hand ball especially in and around the box. It has to be pretty concrete for me to call that type of handball on a defensive player. That being said I share the same thoughts on offensive players as well. The new rules I think allow play to continue without as someone else said worrying about things that really do nothing to change the outcome of the game. I was already routinely ignoring even under the old rules hand balls by one team that ended up giving advantage to the other team similar to allowing an "advantage" play on a foul. I think the issue is that right now I am seeing it all over the place referee wise being called or not called from game to game and from referee to referee. I think a lot of referees are still stuck in old rules. I mean I still see referees doing contested drop balls, and not giving the ball to the keeper in the 18 when there is a drop ball in the box as the new rules state has to happen. If I am officiating with them I will mentor them and tell them what was done wrong. I don't generally see adults doing this type of stuff with the drop ball. Its teenagers and college aged referees. Now on the other hand the handball stuff I see a lot of older referees still calling handballs that by the new rules should not be called a handball anymore. NFHS rules state this is not a handling foul (based on your description of the action): NFHS Soccer Case Book: 9 Fouls & Misconducts: Protecting the head, face, groin or chest from a hard shot or pass using the hands or arms as reflex is not considered deliberate and therefore no handling. Not calling a foul was the proper call. Please note that a) this NFHS rule is not new b) In IFAB FIFA LOTG this is an offence (foul). Law 12: player deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example moving the hand/arm towards the ball (even if protecting the head, face, groin, or chest, unless the hand/arm is tight to the head, face, groin, or chest). In other words, the reflex is considered moving the hand/arm towards the ball. I'm not talking bout NFHS. I'm talking about FIFA/IFAB. NFHS is a whole other beast.... I'm not really sure it is a FIFA/IFAB violation anymore based on the changes they made to the rules. In the original instance I spoke of the player clearing the ball was probably between 5-10 yards of the player who put her hands to the chest. I still think that is reasonably close enough to say she didn't really have time to prevent this from happening. Yes I know it was a reflex to move the arms up where she did, but in reality her putting her arms close to her chest not making herself bigger and then the ball hitting her hand was the same effect as if she had not and it hit her square in the chest (probably knocking her breath out as well). I can see where someone would call it, and I wouldn't necessarily say it was a bad call, but I think the newer FIFA/IFAB rules are meant to stop a lot of the unintentional handballs, and while yes a reflex to not get hit may be thought of as an intentional action from the person watching it happen, in reality it really isn't to the point where the person was trying to hit the ball with their hand. Automatic reactions like that could be argued to also not be intentional as the player does it unconsciously in a lot of these instances as it is an autonomic protective action in most cases where the brain just sends the signal to do this without much thought if any of it. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Apr 27, 2022 6:51:11 GMT -5
You refs have GOT to stop determining outcomes of games. Happened all over Atlanta tonight. Nobody gives a crap about the little stuff. Just use some common sense and try not to be freaking noticed. Just a piss poor job across the board tonight. It’s all on video - do you guys even get reviewed? You must not. And I don’t have a kid still playing, as their team got beat last week because the offense never got on the bus to play rec ball in Lee County. The refs were fine down there. If I was a player, parent, or coach tonight, I might be a bit perturbed. But go ahead and get back to your riveting art-of-the-hand-ball-call discussion. Good day, sir. Wow I bet you are a load of fun to be around in public. The initial intent of this post was to have a discussion with fellow referees just about nuances in the law that get called all over the place and different ways from my perspective by different referees. I said anyone else could join in if they wanted, but your comment is neither constructive or necessary and just makes you come off as a troll, group bully, keyboard warrior, etc... If you don't like the discussion there is an easy way not to read it. Don't click on the thread with your 97 posts.... You are lucky that my kid and I both have thick skin refereeing and don't give a crap at you the guy that always yells and screams at referees like they are a tough guy not only on the internet but also on the fields. Yeah you know you are that guy. |
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Post by notcrazysoccerdad on Apr 27, 2022 6:57:03 GMT -5
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Apr 27, 2022 7:03:09 GMT -5
Come on now you got to give him a link to a better model whistle than that one!  |
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Post by rifle on Apr 27, 2022 12:39:10 GMT -5
Kinda crazy that a even post written in an attempt to do a better job by collaborating about the “work”… draws haters.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Apr 27, 2022 19:44:27 GMT -5
Kinda crazy that a even post written in an attempt to do a better job by collaborating about the “work”… draws haters. The sad state of the world today... I welcomed the information as all of these rules change so often and it is helpful |
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