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Post by zizou on Sept 19, 2014 13:25:57 GMT -5
This thread is really an effort to inspire the GSF membership to develop a plan. Seems to me there are a lot of individuals with a lot of good ideas and knowledge of not only soccer generally but how the state system works.
Some time ago I had posted some thoughts (musings really) about how Georgia Soccer could improve soccer training and player identification in our state. I was really considering how the state might improve, maybe revolutionize, their approach to player training and evaluation. We are one state in a big country, but there is nothing that says we could not act as an independent soccer nation.
I should also say that I do not know Jacob Daniel, other than a very few interactions with him. I do not know how open he is to considering novel approaches, or to considering modifying the way the state has done player evaluations for years. I do not even have a feel for whether he is a decent dude. For all I know he runs constant think tanks to consider how the whole approach to training and evaluation in the state can be managed.
My thoughts were also inspired by thinking about how entire nations (e.g. Holland and Germany) have something close to national development plans. One might say they have national soccer curricula. If entire nations can do this, why can’t Georgia Soccer, for instance, implement a state-wide curriculum?
I have distinct parts to my plan. To keep this one post from being too lengthy, however, I will just start with this one point:
1. Implementation of a state-wide curriculum – This curriculum could be disseminated to coaches at their licensing clinics (or something similar), and then would be disseminated to players at camps held throughout the summer at distributed locations around the state. Every club would be encouraged to select a certain number of top-level players per age group (players with ODP potential, for instance, broadly defined to be as inclusive as possible) to participate in these camps. The fee could be paid by the clubs to reduce burden on both the state and parents (e.g., by adding an additional few dollars to club fees, fundraising efforts, etc). These technique and team tactics camps could be the basis of more extensive player evaluation and tracking. The skills learned by the participants would certainly trickle down to the club level. They could even add a state regional competition format at the end of the summer (teams formed from players in each section of the state could compete against each other at a pre-fall-season jubilee). This would necessarily give smaller and more rural clubs the chance to include their players and have them get exposed to higher level coaching (not just through District Training Centers), and be seen by people who could facilitate their development. This would also give Georgia Soccer an opportunity to evaluate the success of various aspects of their curriculum. Some of the kids have never had that opportunity and some parents do not know the difference. This could be an illuminating for multiple people on multiple fronts.
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Post by SoccerMom on Sept 19, 2014 13:35:35 GMT -5
But dont you think that's already being done thru NTC (National Training Centers) camps? Clubs and ODP send who they feel are good players to participate
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Post by zizou on Sept 19, 2014 13:49:41 GMT -5
But dont you think that's already being done thru NTC (National Training Centers) camps? Clubs and ODP send who they feel are good players to participate No I don't. The NTCs are run by US Soccer. They have nothing to do with Georgia Soccer. Not to mention, they are already "elitist". They are impacting very few kids in the state. I am talking about a program that would have wide impact on how soccer is taught and distributed throughout the state. I am talking about what happens BEFORE one would get to NTC level, but would have an impact on how players from Georgia look when they get there. |
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Post by SoccerMom on Sept 19, 2014 13:59:10 GMT -5
Georgia soccer is supposed to be the highway to US Soccer, isn't that where we want to go?
I just don't think you can have a standard of how every club should coach. You can suggest and teach, but not everyone learns/teaches at the same pace and then you will wind up making adjustments and the whole thing fails. This is not school, kids and coaches need to have a little free reign, think outside the box!
Who is to decide when the curriculum is antiquated? If I don't like how a club or coach operates then I go to another club..if you take away the options then what? we're stuck.
As far as an ID system, isn't that what ODP is for? if they feel you are NTC material they recommend you. Im not sure what you mean by elitist, I've seen kids get sent there by their clubs to get a look at, then its up to them to perform or not. if you don't get invited again I don't think its because theyre elitist or snobs, it may just not be what theyre looking for right now
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Post by rifle on Sept 19, 2014 14:01:44 GMT -5
You should absolutely contact Jakob and discuss the ideas. Then at least you'll know if the man in charge is receptive to feedback.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 19, 2014 14:12:13 GMT -5
deep stuff man, deep stuff.
don't forget their also is a US curriculum that clubs are/should be using as a guide. i believe that is exactly what its for a guide (don't have the link handy, haven't looked at in a few years to be honest).
dont' forget a huge obstacle as well. ga soccer has nothing to do with ecnl and DA.
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Post by rifle on Sept 19, 2014 14:14:35 GMT -5
some clubs won't even publish a curriculum, or even reference USSF curriculum that already exists.
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Post by zizou on Sept 19, 2014 14:42:46 GMT -5
Georgia soccer is supposed to be the highway to US Soccer, isn't that where we want to go? I just don't think you can have a standard of how every club should coach. You can suggest and teach, but not everyone learns/teaches at the same pace and then you will wind up making adjustments and the whole thing fails. This is not school, kids and coaches need to have a little free reign, think outside the box! Who is to decide when the curriculum is antiquated? If I don't like how a club or coach operates then I go to another club..if you take away the options then what? we're stuck. As far as an ID system, isn't that what ODP is for? if they feel you are NTC material they recommend you. Im not sure what you mean by elitist, I've seen kids get sent there by their clubs to get a look at, then its up to them to perform or not. if you don't get invited again I don't think its because theyre elitist or snobs, it may just not be what theyre looking for right now 1. Georgia Soccer is a state association (state associations could be viewed as pretty far down the pecking order) that is part of US Youth Soccer, technically under the umbrella of the US Soccer Federation, but they do things their own way. 2. There are entire nations that disagree with you on the standardized curriculum thing. They are doing quite well, and arguably improving at an alarming rate compared to the USWNT specifically. The USWNT should be very concerned in the near future. 3. The state ODP system is one possible ID system. There are many. US Club Soccer has one. US Youth Soccer has one (your State ODP). USL has one. I don't think these ID systems are part of the US Soccer Federation technically, but they are allowed to HAVE ID systems by the US Soccer Federation. The only direct route to the Youth National Teams really is through the NTCs, which you already mentioned. But NTC is at the extreme end of a development and identification process that I wish we would reconsider. You may get recommended to NTC by an ODP coach, a club coach, but there are plenty of ways to get there. Perhaps "elitist" was a poor choice. It was shorthand for limited in scope. I was hoping for development of something more general. What other nation does things in the US top-heavy way? This is what would be nice to modify. I disagree with this not being like school. It is EXACTLY like school. We provide the greatest opportunities for the greatest number by starting with the basics. When the kids get the basics, we keep adding to it a bit at a time, as they are able to manage new information. Then they are able to use those skills to behave in unique ways in similar and only marginally related situations (like varying game situations). That is when we start to see that they have really incorporated the knowledge and are able to implement it in unique ways. But without those basic skills and basic knowledge there is no opportunity for demonstration of high level creativity. There are whole huge literatures on this in multiple disciplines, including athletic performance. Kids do not come out of the womb appropriately executing Zidane turns under intense pressure in game situations. But a standardized curriculum would help them get there! But it is great to know other people's positions on this. Very exciting to get other viewpoints. I should also point out that this has nothing to do with sour grapes. One kid is a year too young for and of the ID programs, and I am grateful that the older one has been able to benefit from those opportunities. This is really a matter of intellectual curiosity and desire to improve a system that we have all had a chance to observe for some time and realize could be enhanced. |
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Post by sidelinemama on Sept 19, 2014 19:12:43 GMT -5
Until the politics get out of GA soccer, it will continue to be a joke. European and Latin American Nations do not have crazy parents with such vested interests doing what ever they can to get their kid on the top team. It's the American way. Helicopter Parents, Snow Plow Parents, whatever you want to call it, it's killing us in every aspect. Not just soccer.
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Post by silverback on Sept 19, 2014 21:38:26 GMT -5
Jacob Daniel is a great guy. I was fortunate to travel with him on an ODP event and spoke to him in depth regarding Ga Soccer & ODP. He is very committed to youth soccer and is incredibly hard working. He may not have much control over individual club curriculums, but as the technical lead for region iii, he has significant control over the style of play that we play in the region, for which he has required each state to play possession, play out of the back, no punting, etc. As a result, he is definitely having a positive impact on the style of play in southeast region. We are lucky to have him as part of our GA soccer community.
Also, he is well connected within each club. I attended one of his club seminars where he presented on youth soccer, curriculums, playing philosophies, tactics, etc. If you haven't seen the presentation, I would strongly recommend your club have him speak at a "parent night" for the parents of young players. It definitely changed my perspective on youth soccer, training, expectations, etc.
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Post by zizou on Sept 21, 2014 18:02:40 GMT -5
Before I move on to point #2, I wanted to present this quote from a German-American soccer coach discussing some of the differences between youth training in the two countries:
Our talent identification and development program in Germany works in complete harmony with the club system. Having one federation as the only governing body provides a consistent philosophy, procedure and structure which is transparent and consistent…whether you’re in Berlin, Munich, Frankfurt or Hengstbacherhof with it’s couple of thousand residents. Here, the true meaning of player development can be seen. Everyone contributes based on the same set of goals. I don’t believe that is the case yet in the U.S. Back home, it’s still too much about the club, the coach, the team, the parents and the community and not the player.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Sept 21, 2014 19:05:35 GMT -5
Here is the US soccer curriculum. Might be old though, not sure how often its updated. link |
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Post by silverback on Sept 22, 2014 19:19:44 GMT -5
A few additional thoughts on this topic.
We really need to separate the discussion into two parts: development and identification. GA Soccer has the responsibility of both and the first step to improve soccer in GA is to link the two better together, but still keep them as separate discussions. IMO - this is the misconception of ODP - its not development, its identification, but I think the name confuses people. As such, it should probably call itself OIP, but regardless, there should be guidelines around both these topics.
Regarding identification - GA Soccer should specifically provide guidelines on what they are looking for in terms ODP. Other threads have commented that their kids show up for ODP tryout, they play games, hope they make it. If they don't, it's up to the parent to follow up with the ODP coaches. To me, this is wrong. Each player and parent should:
1. understand the criterial for which they are being evaluated. It should be both skills-based and tactical-based by role/position. This would help answer some of the prior threads on what ODP is looking for. If you are a defensive player, we are looking for "xyz". If you are a forward, we are looking for "abc". If you are a midfield, we are looking for "123". We are also looking for players who can do "xxxx". Unfortunately, in many cases, I still think they pick the biggest and/or fastest player who may be more mature, but not always the most skilled.
2. receive an evaluation based on their tryouts. "You can't fix what you don't know" and it would allow players and parents to create individual training plans to improve. This way, a player "cut" would at least know what they need to work on as opposed to just the disappointment of not seeing their number listed on a web page. The player could then go back to their club and/or trainer and work on specifics.
Regarding development, the state should have a standard curriculum they publish that is tied to their identification process. It would then be up to each club to implement such a curriculum (or create their own based on a state suggested standard). This way, GA soccer can link development and identification. GA soccer should also rate the clubs in terms of how they follow their curriculum. They could review curriculum plans, attend practices, etc. Again, it would be up to the club to implement the curriculum, but by having a rating, it would help parents evaluate clubs better. Some parents might travel a few extra miles to a club if they knew the state gave them a "certified GA soccer" rating.
Back to identification. We need more than just "show up to ODP tryouts". I liked the idea of implementing a scoring system after each game by the opposing coach, similar to Super Y (mentioned earlier). After each game, the team manager could enters points directly into a system, just like scores, cards, etc. A certain number of points puts you directly to State tryouts, or in some cases, directly on the ODP team or into the NTC process.
Also, GA soccer could/should run a summer camp (and hopefully make some money while doing it to help fund other activities, scholarships, etc). The points a player accumulates during the season could go towards the cost of the camp. The more points, the less the cost. The camp would focus on their curriculum and to help identify potential players. This way, coaches get more than a few hours to evaluate players. Also, the state could run an all-star game at the end of the season for players who accumulate the most points - wouldn't that be fun and a great way to raise some money.
Lastly, I do think we can improve GA soccer by educating our parents- in terms of styles of play, rules of the game, player development, sportsmanship, etc. Too many of us grew up in an age where soccer was not as popular as it is today. I too was a parent who screamed on the sidelines (on occasion) and thought winning was everything. Fortunately, I got to know some excellent coaches and other parents who had played the game growing up who educated me on the finer points of this great game. It took a while, but my I finally realized that soccer is NOT about XX's and 00's, but the creativity to play as a team in a continuous format without screaming parents. Also, as mentioned in another post, I have seen some excellent seminars by GA soccer and I would highly recommend your club sponsor one of these seminars for the parents.
In the end, I really appreciate this post and I have enjoyed reading the ideas of others. I do think we can improve GA soccer and hopefully, the people who participate on this forum can make a difference.
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Post by rifle on Sept 22, 2014 20:51:48 GMT -5
Snip.. Back to identification. We need more than just "show up to ODP tryouts". I liked the idea of implementing a scoring system after each game by the opposing coach, similar to Super Y (mentioned earlier). After each game, the team manager could enters points directly into a system, just like scores, cards, etc. A certain number of points puts you directly to State tryouts, or in some cases, directly on the ODP team or into the NTC process. This is excellent. And I really like the ID vs Development distinction. Much needed. For identification purposes, I would even suggest having players do the ranking.. Taking the often maligned XYZ club/coach/political "connections" (advantages) out of the equation, could open some doors. If "the list" was available to college coaches or pro scouts, all the better. I'm sure, like high school, you'd have a couple clowns on the homecoming court, but overall I bet the players would identify very good players with 97.4% accuracy. Oh, and I'd do this for ALL divisions. Great way to find a diamond in the rough. |
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