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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 13, 2022 8:26:07 GMT -5
How about this one? This is against the ref. I am about 10 yards from the center line. He is over 10 yards further away from the center line than I am. The defenders and the attackers are all in our defensive half for a corner. The striker is on OUR side of the center circle. My child gets the ball and takes two touches and sees that she has a line to play the striker. She plays the striker who was in her own defensive half when the ball was played but received the ball 2 steps onto the attacking half. The AR is more than 20 yards from the center line and the last defender, but calls it offsides. Our coach goes mental. Not only was the AR way far out of position, but he called offsides when it was not even possible. This guy was easily 60 years old so not a kid. Horrible call. Luckily we were way ahead so it didn't matter except for stats tho there is the goal differential issue... having done the job many times now myself… the ONLY time I would question an AR is when they aren’t in position. Otherwise they call what they see and that’s that. There isn’t VAR you just have to decide based on what you saw - and then live with it. Yep. I never question my AR if he/she is in position to make that call, but if I see he/she is out of position a lot of the game when it matters (because lets be frank sometimes players are faster than the AR and the AR can not keep up, and most of the time as long as they get the first pass right and can watch it trailing while still running down the sideline they generally still make the right offside call if something happens later after the initial pass) I will sometimes ignore the ARs flag if I don't think the player is offside and let the play go till there is a stop in play at which point I have a discussion with the AR if there was a goal to ensure he saw what he saw. The bad thing about lack of Referees is that we have so many young ones that are not trained properly or just don't give a crap about doing a good job and are there just for the paycheck. In those situations I have told my assignor I would rather have no ARs then those people. Now this is after I try to mentor and teach them proper technique over and over again and it doesn't help. |
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Post by bolo on Sept 13, 2022 10:20:40 GMT -5
having done the job many times now myself… the ONLY time I would question an AR is when they aren’t in position. Otherwise they call what they see and that’s that. There isn’t VAR you just have to decide based on what you saw - and then live with it. Yep. I never question my AR if he/she is in position to make that call, but if I see he/she is out of position a lot of the game when it matters (because lets be frank sometimes players are faster than the AR and the AR can not keep up, and most of the time as long as they get the first pass right and can watch it trailing while still running down the sideline they generally still make the right offside call if something happens later after the initial pass) I will sometimes ignore the ARs flag if I don't think the player is offside and let the play go till there is a stop in play at which point I have a discussion with the AR if there was a goal to ensure he saw what he saw. The bad thing about lack of Referees is that we have so many young ones that are not trained properly or just don't give a crap about doing a good job and are there just for the paycheck. In those situations I have told my assignor I would rather have no ARs then those people. Now this is after I try to mentor and teach them proper technique over and over again and it doesn't help. As a parent (and non-ref), I have tried especially hard in recent seasons to keep in mind that on around 98% of offside calls, the AR has a much better view than I do, unless I just happen to be sitting right down the line from where the call is made. As such, I try really hard not to complain, and to give the AR the benefit of the doubt, and to encourage the other parents on our team to do the same. But it's not always easy, especially as players get older and faster, and also when I know there are still parents on our team- even at an older age- that don't understand some of the more nuanced aspects of the offside rule, like starting the play off but coming back on to receive the ball (you're still off). I also think some of this comes back on the players- if you are consistently offside, ARs notice that and start to almost give the benefit of the doubt to you being offside, even when you might be borderline on. |
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Post by soccerloafer on Sept 13, 2022 10:51:50 GMT -5
having done the job many times now myself… the ONLY time I would question an AR is when they aren’t in position. Otherwise they call what they see and that’s that. There isn’t VAR you just have to decide based on what you saw - and then live with it. Yep. I never question my AR if he/she is in position to make that call, but if I see he/she is out of position a lot of the game when it matters (because lets be frank sometimes players are faster than the AR and the AR can not keep up, and most of the time as long as they get the first pass right and can watch it trailing while still running down the sideline they generally still make the right offside call if something happens later after the initial pass) I will sometimes ignore the ARs flag if I don't think the player is offside and let the play go till there is a stop in play at which point I have a discussion with the AR if there was a goal to ensure he saw what he saw. The bad thing about lack of Referees is that we have so many young ones that are not trained properly or just don't give a crap about doing a good job and are there just for the paycheck. In those situations I have told my assignor I would rather have no ARs then those people. Now this is after I try to mentor and teach them proper technique over and over again and it doesn't help. My first instruction to my ARs is 'stay in position.' Second is to pay attention, third is to communicate. If you are in position and paying attention, you'll likely make the right call. If you're in position, I can defend you against complaints, and most reasonable people back off. If you're out of position, I'll be complaining too... |
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Post by nofoul on Sept 13, 2022 12:20:44 GMT -5
My daughter ref'd and we have some friends who also do and did. Money is pretty good especially if you can get a head ref job and do 3 games in a day, but the yelling from the parents was tough on her. Question, for those of you who are refs on the forum are you older in age. I feel like the older folks ( let's say 30+) probably have more patience for obnoxious parents and players.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 13, 2022 15:03:14 GMT -5
My daughter ref'd and we have some friends who also do and did. Money is pretty good especially if you can get a head ref job and do 3 games in a day, but the yelling from the parents was tough on her. Question, for those of you who are refs on the forum are you older in age. I feel like the older folks ( let's say 30+) probably have more patience for obnoxious parents and players. I'm in my 40s. My son is in his teens and has refereed since 11 (before they made the age 13 minimum). I used to stay at most of his games before I got certified in the crowd just sitting. I've had to step up a few times when parents got crazy or out of hand with him. Yes he gets yelled at. He is good at ignoring them, and has gotten better as he gets older to be more assertive to shut down the stuff before the yelling gets out of hand. I find that the issue with parents happens more so when its 3 teenagers or a few teenagers and a younger college person refereeing. It seems the parents and coach think they can intimidate teens and college aged kids more so than someone like me. I tolerate it to a point from the coaches as that is their job if they feel like something was decided wrongly, but if once I explain what is going on if they are still going to yell and argue, I give them a warning that is enough. Very rarely have I had to give a coach a card after that warning. The parents on the other hand, or as I call them the peanut gallery, I ignore for a bit especially if it is a one off where they think something was a bad call, but if it continues, I don't want my AR2 having to deal with that crap so I generally stop the game and tell the parents that we are here to watch the kids play, and that your kids want to play and that if they are going to continue to complain and yell that I'll just stop the game until they clear the sideline and go to their cars, and we will play the game without spectators. This universally shuts them up in 99.9% of the cases. I know a lot of referees don't do this, and the suggestion is not to do something like this. Other referees may go to the coaches instead, and that is probably how a teenager or younger adult should do it, but I feel like going to the coach doesn't really do a lot to stop the parents most of the time, as coaches only half ass get their parents to be quiet when asked by a referee especially when that coach's team is losing. In fact a lot of times the parents feed off the coach if he is mad and yelling. 99.9% of the time as well the only time a coach is yelling is when his team is down, and he feels like every call is a bad call and not going his way. The calls aren't bad he just perceives them that way because his team is losing. Something else I do sometimes when I'm AR2. I try to be cordial and nice in down time chit chatting or responding to stuff they say with a smile. If they don't understand a call, if I have the time I will explain it to them nicely. The majority of the time this disarms the parents from getting mad. Even if they don't agree they understand my thought process on a decision or if there was something on the field not understood, they understand why things went down the way they did. Now there are sometimes as an AR2 the parents are just A-holes, and I try not to talk with them at all. Tell your daughter to keep it up and grow thick skin. It will help her later in life to deal with a-holes and mean people. |
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Post by bolo on Sept 13, 2022 16:45:01 GMT -5
My daughter ref'd and we have some friends who also do and did. Money is pretty good especially if you can get a head ref job and do 3 games in a day, but the yelling from the parents was tough on her. Question, for those of you who are refs on the forum are you older in age. I feel like the older folks ( let's say 30+) probably have more patience for obnoxious parents and players. I'm in my 40s. My son is in his teens and has refereed since 11 (before they made the age 13 minimum). I used to stay at most of his games before I got certified in the crowd just sitting. I've had to step up a few times when parents got crazy or out of hand with him. Yes he gets yelled at. He is good at ignoring them, and has gotten better as he gets older to be more assertive to shut down the stuff before the yelling gets out of hand. I find that the issue with parents happens more so when its 3 teenagers or a few teenagers and a younger college person refereeing. It seems the parents and coach think they can intimidate teens and college aged kids more so than someone like me. I tolerate it to a point from the coaches as that is their job if they feel like something was decided wrongly, but if once I explain what is going on if they are still going to yell and argue, I give them a warning that is enough. Very rarely have I had to give a coach a card after that warning. The parents on the other hand, or as I call them the peanut gallery, I ignore for a bit especially if it is a one off where they think something was a bad call, but if it continues, I don't want my AR2 having to deal with that crap so I generally stop the game and tell the parents that we are here to watch the kids play, and that your kids want to play and that if they are going to continue to complain and yell that I'll just stop the game until they clear the sideline and go to their cars, and we will play the game without spectators. This universally shuts them up in 99.9% of the cases. I know a lot of referees don't do this, and the suggestion is not to do something like this. Other referees may go to the coaches instead, and that is probably how a teenager or younger adult should do it, but I feel like going to the coach doesn't really do a lot to stop the parents most of the time, as coaches only half ass get their parents to be quiet when asked by a referee especially when that coach's team is losing. In fact a lot of times the parents feed off the coach if he is mad and yelling. 99.9% of the time as well the only time a coach is yelling is when his team is down, and he feels like every call is a bad call and not going his way. The calls aren't bad he just perceives him that way because his team is losing. Something else I do sometimes when I'm AR2. I try to be cordial and nice in down time chit chatting or responding to stuff they say with a smile. If they don't understand a call, if I have the time I will explain it to them nicely. The majority of the time this disarms the parents from getting mad. Even if they don't agree they understand my thought process on a decision or if there was something on the field not understood, they understand why things went down the way they did. Now there are sometimes as an AR2 the parents are just A-holes, and I try not to talk with them at all. Tell your daughter to keep it up and grow thick skin. It will help her later in life to deal with a-holes and mean people. I disagree that 99.9% of the time coaches only yell (at refs) when their team is down. They may not yell as much when they're winning, but if they think a call went against them- and especially if it involves player safety- most are still going to let the ref hear about it. I hate that you have come to feel that you have to come into every game assuming the parents/fans are going to be awful, or "the peanut gallery", as you put it. I don't believe most parents come to a game planning or hoping to yell at a ref. And even when they do, it's not personal, they just might disagree with a call that was or wasn't made. And whether you want to acknowledge it or not, refs do miss calls from time to time- they're human, just like the parents, coaches, and players are. And parents and coaches- most of whom at older ages have watched a ton of soccer, and a lot of whom do know the game pretty well, whether you want to admit it or not- are naturally going to yell out when they think a call was missed. It's human nature, and to expect everyone to just be silent and agree with every call a ref makes or doesn't make is simply ludicrous. It doesn't mean the parents are "a-holes or mean people", it just means they might have noticed (or thought) the ref screwed up, and they're going to voice their disagreement. Now, anything beyond the initial cry out, like continuing to ride the ref, is absurd and shouldn't be condoned, but it's harder than it seems sometimes to rein those emotions in. Especially when it concerns player safety. I have definitely let a few refs have it over the years when they've stared right at players getting taken out, elbowed, thrown down, etc.- obvious fouls, if not cards- and called nothing. When your kid, or their teammate, is lying on the field crying after taking a deliberate forearm to the throat, and it happens right in front of the ref and yet they let play continue without a word or whistle, see how easy it is to just sit there and stay quiet. I'm sorry, I promise I'm not trying to be mean or an a-hole. I know reffing is a difficult and often thankless job, and I appreciate those who take the time to do it. But I also think it's simply human nature to get upset when you see it not being done well, especially if player safety is involved. |
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Post by BubbleDad on Sept 13, 2022 16:53:10 GMT -5
The desperation from the booker this fall is strong. We need more of the good people on this message board to get certified. It’s a cool way to stay close to the game even after your kids age out. Clubs should make it a requirement of players to become certified. It’s a way they could earn back their club fees. I agree BUT this can be taxing on the players that play at higher levels. Rec players? Definitely should have to ref. |
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Post by BubbleDad on Sept 13, 2022 16:54:53 GMT -5
Clubs should make it a requirement of players to become certified. It’s a way they could earn back their club fees. What a wonderful idea; it would instill responsibility, leadership, and entrepreneurship in the children while also putting money in their pockets. But hold on, there's just one little snag: parents. Said audience tends to think it's acceptable to lambast, vilify, and bemoan from the comfort of their cozy lounge seats a few feet from the pitch, even though they are typically not licensed referees themselves and, let's not forget, have children of their own. Children typically have an intrinsic fear of being screamed at and avoid it. Therefore, they detest donning the yellow and black outfit and receiving payment for being the object of sarcasm, hoaxes, and accusations of bias. So keep that in mind as the new footy season begins. They are young people with little experience who lack the maturity to debate or argue with grownups. They will err, but perhaps they will learn from their mistakes. Let's give them a break and concentrate on supporting our team and our adorable young Jane/Johnny instead. Wishing everyone luck this season... Preach! |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Sept 13, 2022 18:39:54 GMT -5
having done the job many times now myself… the ONLY time I would question an AR is when they aren’t in position. Otherwise they call what they see and that’s that. There isn’t VAR you just have to decide based on what you saw - and then live with it. Yep. I never question my AR if he/she is in position to make that call, but if I see he/she is out of position a lot of the game when it matters (because lets be frank sometimes players are faster than the AR and the AR can not keep up, and most of the time as long as they get the first pass right and can watch it trailing while still running down the sideline they generally still make the right offside call if something happens later after the initial pass) I will sometimes ignore the ARs flag if I don't think the player is offside and let the play go till there is a stop in play at which point I have a discussion with the AR if there was a goal to ensure he saw what he saw. The bad thing about lack of Referees is that we have so many young ones that are not trained properly or just don't give a crap about doing a good job and are there just for the paycheck. In those situations I have told my assignor I would rather have no ARs then those people. Now this is after I try to mentor and teach them proper technique over and over again and it doesn't help. The AR was more than 20 yards out of position and I was closer. Our coach was maybe 3 yards from the center line so closer to the appropriate position than the AR or me. This AR appeared clueless. Earlier in the game he let a ball that was well out of bounds (by 10 feet) be dribbled back in. It was very weird. In his defense on the offsides call the lines were not super easy to see, but if you are 20 yards out of position on a corner counterattack you have some serious issues. BTW our coach is a very high licensed ref and I know the nuances of soccer rules including the starting from an offsides position (which I don't consider nuances). Also I will generally defend referees (especially since my kid started doing it), but I have no tolerance for people who are not fit or able enough to take the job. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 14, 2022 7:03:34 GMT -5
Yep. I never question my AR if he/she is in position to make that call, but if I see he/she is out of position a lot of the game when it matters (because lets be frank sometimes players are faster than the AR and the AR can not keep up, and most of the time as long as they get the first pass right and can watch it trailing while still running down the sideline they generally still make the right offside call if something happens later after the initial pass) I will sometimes ignore the ARs flag if I don't think the player is offside and let the play go till there is a stop in play at which point I have a discussion with the AR if there was a goal to ensure he saw what he saw. The bad thing about lack of Referees is that we have so many young ones that are not trained properly or just don't give a crap about doing a good job and are there just for the paycheck. In those situations I have told my assignor I would rather have no ARs then those people. Now this is after I try to mentor and teach them proper technique over and over again and it doesn't help. The AR was more than 20 yards out of position and I was closer. Our coach was maybe 3 yards from the center line so closer to the appropriate position than the AR or me. This AR appeared clueless. Earlier in the game he let a ball that was well out of bounds (by 10 feet) be dribbled back in. It was very weird. In his defense on the offsides call the lines were not super easy to see, but if you are 20 yards out of position on a corner counterattack you have some serious issues. BTW our coach is a very high licensed ref and I know the nuances of soccer rules including the starting from an offsides position (which I don't consider nuances). Also I will generally defend referees (especially since my kid started doing it), but I have no tolerance for people who are not fit or able enough to take the job. Being fit, and being 16-17 year old boy fit are two different things. As I said before an AR may very well be in line on an initial pass of a counter attack and then everything speed up so quickly he is never able to get back even with the line till it gets around the 18 and the attacker slows down to let his teammates catch up to him. I've seen many fit adults that couldn't keep up with those kids. I don't think not being able to keep up in that situation is an unfit referee. If you consider it to be then you probably should referee as an AR a bit and get a different perspective. In my opinion in situations like that as long as the AR got the initial pass correct as far as offside goes, as long as he is running with the play at that point even if he is trailing a bit because the players are faster I find that most if not all that know what they are doing (including myself) can still get an offside right trailing 5-10 yards from the actual ball after the initial pass as generally all the attacking players run even with the ball or behind the guy with the ball anyway as they are trying to catch up to that breakaway. Situations as what you describe though are unacceptable with the AR not knowing what he is doing or just not caring. I agree a person that doesn't even attempt to keep up, or doesn't even care is a problem though. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 14, 2022 7:32:42 GMT -5
I disagree that 99.9% of the time coaches only yell (at refs) when their team is down. They may not yell as much when they're winning, but if they think a call went against them- and especially if it involves player safety- most are still going to let the ref hear about it. I hate that you have come to feel that you have to come into every game assuming the parents/fans are going to be awful, or "the peanut gallery", as you put it. I don't believe most parents come to a game planning or hoping to yell at a ref. And even when they do, it's not personal, they just might disagree with a call that was or wasn't made. And whether you want to acknowledge it or not, refs do miss calls from time to time- they're human, just like the parents, coaches, and players are. And parents and coaches- most of whom at older ages have watched a ton of soccer, and a lot of whom do know the game pretty well, whether you want to admit it or not- are naturally going to yell out when they think a call was missed. It's human nature, and to expect everyone to just be silent and agree with every call a ref makes or doesn't make is simply ludicrous. It doesn't mean the parents are "a-holes or mean people", it just means they might have noticed (or thought) the ref screwed up, and they're going to voice their disagreement. Now, anything beyond the initial cry out, like continuing to ride the ref, is absurd and shouldn't be condoned, but it's harder than it seems sometimes to rein those emotions in. Especially when it concerns player safety. I have definitely let a few refs have it over the years when they've stared right at players getting taken out, elbowed, thrown down, etc.- obvious fouls, if not cards- and called nothing. When your kid, or their teammate, is lying on the field crying after taking a deliberate forearm to the throat, and it happens right in front of the ref and yet they let play continue without a word or whistle, see how easy it is to just sit there and stay quiet. I'm sorry, I promise I'm not trying to be mean or an a-hole. I know reffing is a difficult and often thankless job, and I appreciate those who take the time to do it. But I also think it's simply human nature to get upset when you see it not being done well, especially if player safety is involved. We have had this same discussion in another referee post. I believe in there I never said I had an issue with a parent just reflexively yelling "foul" or whatever as I agree that is human nature. It is the continuing after that, that is unacceptable. I think I also told you that the only time I am vocal now as a spectator is "player safety" issues and issues where the referee has lost control of the game and there is about to be a fight. At that point I might only remind the referee of player safety or that he should probably be calling more fouls or giving yellow cards to folks to settle down the game. I don't even care which side he does that to. It should probably be both if it has gotten to that point, but I'm not out there yelling and berating when I say that type stuff. I rarely encounter this issue anymore with referees in my older kid's games. That being said I was saying "peanut gallery" as a joke. In older and higher level games the spectators are relatively quiet when I referee. It is when you get into lower level and younger teams that the parents generally are bad, and no most of those parents aren't well versed in the rules. A coach may one off question a call just like a parent, but the ones that berate the referee and continue and continue I stand by my statement are 99% always the losing side's coach and it is mainly because they are losing. No referee has an issue with a coach having a conversation about player safety or stuff like that. That being said if you are calling the fouls and also giving warnings and cards where needed if they continue to complain about thinking their players are getting hurt I don't know what else they want a referee to do? I had an instance like what I said in the last paragraph once in a U12 girls game. I called every foul I saw, and warned a couple of girls that slid late or committed an excessive foul. Now in a U12 game at just an academy level (not higher level DPL etc...) I'm not giving as many cards out as I would in an older or higher level match. Most of those girls didn't mean to commit the fouls they did, and I just stop the game to explain to them why they shouldn't do it and why it is dangerous. 2 or 3 girls for one team got slight injuries during good 1-on-1 type soccer plays where neither team committed a foul. No one actually got hurt from any fouls I called. That team coach so happen to be complaining about everything as he was losing. Shoulder to shoulder 50/50 balls he thought were fouls when both girls were doing it (who am I calling the foul on both were leaning into each other etc..., which I stated to him once). Almost at the end of the 1st half I called a foul where he just gets irate and yells at me to the point where I'm sure he didn't even hear the whistle. I look over to him and tell him, "I called the foul what more do you want me to do?" The particular foul was not bad but was a foul so it didn't warrant a yellow, but he kept with it at which point I gave him a yellow to get him quiet and calm down. During halftime someone comes over to me, whom I thought was an assistant coach or something for this team, and he comes up and tells me there are 2 girls with soft tissue injuries...I forget what else he said. It took me a minute to realize he was a parent at which point I looked at him and said "who are you?" Then realizing he was a parent, I told him you aren't supposed to be on this side of the field and you are never to approach a referee ever. He got an attitude and i told him that he needed to leave the fields and go to his car and that I would not start the game back up until he was gone. He walks over and talks with some parents and starts to walk off but then a lot of the other parents decide to grab their kids and just leave. I'm sure with that guy stating I said something or did something I didn't do. The coach just looks at me gestures in a kind of irate ways and walks off the field. The referee assignor was right there watching from another field, never said I did anything wrong. The other coach stated the same. The parents were calling me racist and all other types of things which is typical when people get to their lowest common denominator and have no other leg to stand on. I called the game, and eventually the director and coach of that team that walked off apologized to the other club for the behavior of that coach and parents. Sometimes parent and coaches are indeed just a-holes. First and only time a team has ever walked off a field and forfeited a game while I was refereeing. I mean it was quite easy for the coach to make me the scapegoat considering they were down about 6-1 or 6-2 at the end of the first half. I'm sure he had no interest in playing that 2nd half anyway. I never said I'm perfect. I do mess up calls, and if I can correct them prior to the ball being back in play I do. I rarely make a bad call that affects the outcome of the game though. I can't even think of but maybe one ever where it might have. That is always my goal and the goal to all my ARs when I'm centering. I tell them lets not be the reason a team wins or loses based on a bad call we make. Most of my errors are not seeing who it went out of bounds on due to too many people being around the ball, or maybe I might miss a handball occasionally because I didn't see it. I'm sure I miss fouls sometimes but I can only call what I can see. |
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Post by kidsocceruber on Sept 14, 2022 8:52:47 GMT -5
Sounds like there's a lot of money to be made for automated/robot refs!  Tennis has it, baseball is bringing it in, let's get it for youth soccer! I'm kidding of course, but that's the only way we're going to see the behavior talked about stopping - can't piss off or hurt that robot's feelings like us humans). We've all yelled at some point about bad calls, and really as long as it's not the refs actually trying to affect the outcome of the game then there's not a lot to do other than become a ref yourself and do it better(Yes, i've been told that before as a dismissal of an outcome-deciding 3 blind mice bad call). In the end, this too shall pass and when we remember it's not the World Cup probably should put things in perspective. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Sept 14, 2022 8:55:00 GMT -5
The AR was more than 20 yards out of position and I was closer. Our coach was maybe 3 yards from the center line so closer to the appropriate position than the AR or me. This AR appeared clueless. Earlier in the game he let a ball that was well out of bounds (by 10 feet) be dribbled back in. It was very weird. In his defense on the offsides call the lines were not super easy to see, but if you are 20 yards out of position on a corner counterattack you have some serious issues. BTW our coach is a very high licensed ref and I know the nuances of soccer rules including the starting from an offsides position (which I don't consider nuances). Also I will generally defend referees (especially since my kid started doing it), but I have no tolerance for people who are not fit or able enough to take the job. Being fit, and being 16-17 year old boy fit are two different things. As I said before an AR may very well be in line on an initial pass of a counter attack and then everything speed up so quickly he is never able to get back even with the line till it gets around the 18 and the attacker slows down to let his teammates catch up to him. I've seen many fit adults that couldn't keep up with those kids. I don't think not being able to keep up in that situation is an unfit referee. If you consider it to be then you probably should referee as an AR a bit and get a different perspective. In my opinion in situations like that as long as the AR got the initial pass correct as far as offside goes, as long as he is running with the play at that point even if he is trailing a bit because the players are faster I find that most if not all that know what they are doing (including myself) can still get an offside right trailing 5-10 yards from the actual ball after the initial pass as generally all the attacking players run even with the ball or behind the guy with the ball anyway as they are trying to catch up to that breakaway. Situations as what you describe though are unacceptable with the AR not knowing what he is doing or just not caring. I agree a person that doesn't even attempt to keep up, or doesn't even care is a problem though. I don't expect a 60 year old man (or woman) to keep up with top level teen age girls or boys. I am talking about those that don't try. I have been an AR on the sidelines of my kids games (unpaid volunteer) and I know it is hard. I give them the benefit if they are trying. I could never do it now with my arthritis so I would never get paid for it. |
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Post by soccerloafer on Sept 14, 2022 10:16:18 GMT -5
"I don't expect a 60 year old man (or woman) to keep up with top level teen age girls or boys. I am talking about those that don't try.
I have been an AR on the sidelines of my kids games (unpaid volunteer) and I know it is hard. I give them the benefit if they are trying. I could never do it now with my arthritis so I would never get paid for it."
Exactly - it's all about the effort. As a center or AR, when the play is running away from you, the key is to keep moving as best you can in that direction.
As a pretty fit 50-something, I can mostly keep pace with the girls (including HS) but lose to the boys around U15. You can call fouls from behind, but you better be in the thick of things within a second or two.
In HS it's fairly easy to cheat on offsides by using the football lines. Not so much on grass fields.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 14, 2022 10:31:41 GMT -5
"I don't expect a 60 year old man (or woman) to keep up with top level teen age girls or boys. I am talking about those that don't try. I have been an AR on the sidelines of my kids games (unpaid volunteer) and I know it is hard. I give them the benefit if they are trying. I could never do it now with my arthritis so I would never get paid for it." Exactly - it's all about the effort. As a center or AR, when the play is running away from you, the key is to keep moving as best you can in that direction. As a pretty fit 50-something, I can mostly keep pace with the girls (including HS) but lose to the boys around U15. You can call fouls from behind, but you better be in the thick of things within a second or two. In HS it's fairly easy to cheat on offsides by using the football lines. Not so much on grass fields. Yes I can keep up with all girls including HS and I'm a little overweight but in good shape. I prefer refereeing girls for that reason. Tournament weekends where I am refereeing all day, I try to seek out the older girls venues to be put at. I also love when I get to referee on turf HS fields or football lined turf fields. It makes it so much easier for an AR and also for a Center if you are lacking an AR. I only do club games on those type of fields though. I have no desire to referee GHSA games especially a 2-man system. |
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Post by bolo on Sept 14, 2022 15:46:49 GMT -5
I disagree that 99.9% of the time coaches only yell (at refs) when their team is down. They may not yell as much when they're winning, but if they think a call went against them- and especially if it involves player safety- most are still going to let the ref hear about it. I hate that you have come to feel that you have to come into every game assuming the parents/fans are going to be awful, or "the peanut gallery", as you put it. I don't believe most parents come to a game planning or hoping to yell at a ref. And even when they do, it's not personal, they just might disagree with a call that was or wasn't made. And whether you want to acknowledge it or not, refs do miss calls from time to time- they're human, just like the parents, coaches, and players are. And parents and coaches- most of whom at older ages have watched a ton of soccer, and a lot of whom do know the game pretty well, whether you want to admit it or not- are naturally going to yell out when they think a call was missed. It's human nature, and to expect everyone to just be silent and agree with every call a ref makes or doesn't make is simply ludicrous. It doesn't mean the parents are "a-holes or mean people", it just means they might have noticed (or thought) the ref screwed up, and they're going to voice their disagreement. Now, anything beyond the initial cry out, like continuing to ride the ref, is absurd and shouldn't be condoned, but it's harder than it seems sometimes to rein those emotions in. Especially when it concerns player safety. I have definitely let a few refs have it over the years when they've stared right at players getting taken out, elbowed, thrown down, etc.- obvious fouls, if not cards- and called nothing. When your kid, or their teammate, is lying on the field crying after taking a deliberate forearm to the throat, and it happens right in front of the ref and yet they let play continue without a word or whistle, see how easy it is to just sit there and stay quiet. I'm sorry, I promise I'm not trying to be mean or an a-hole. I know reffing is a difficult and often thankless job, and I appreciate those who take the time to do it. But I also think it's simply human nature to get upset when you see it not being done well, especially if player safety is involved. We have had this same discussion in another referee post. I believe in there I never said I had an issue with a parent just reflexively yelling "foul" or whatever as I agree that is human nature. It is the continuing after that, that is unacceptable. I think I also told you that the only time I am vocal now as a spectator is "player safety" issues and issues where the referee has lost control of the game and there is about to be a fight. At that point I might only remind the referee of player safety or that he should probably be calling more fouls or giving yellow cards to folks to settle down the game. I don't even care which side he does that to. It should probably be both if it has gotten to that point, but I'm not out there yelling and berating when I say that type stuff. I rarely encounter this issue anymore with referees in my older kid's games. That being said I was saying "peanut gallery" as a joke. In older and higher level games the spectators are relatively quiet when I referee. It is when you get into lower level and younger teams that the parents generally are bad, and no most of those parents aren't well versed in the rules. A coach may one off question a call just like a parent, but the ones that berate the referee and continue and continue I stand by my statement are 99% always the losing side's coach and it is mainly because they are losing. No referee has an issue with a coach having a conversation about player safety or stuff like that. That being said if you are calling the fouls and also giving warnings and cards where needed if they continue to complain about thinking their players are getting hurt I don't know what else they want a referee to do? I had an instance like what I said in the last paragraph once in a U12 girls game. I called every foul I saw, and warned a couple of girls that slid late or committed an excessive foul. Now in a U12 game at just an academy level (not higher level DPL etc...) I'm not giving as many cards out as I would in an older or higher level match. Most of those girls didn't mean to commit the fouls they did, and I just stop the game to explain to them why they shouldn't do it and why it is dangerous. 2 or 3 girls for one team got slight injuries during good 1-on-1 type soccer plays where neither team committed a foul. No one actually got hurt from any fouls I called. That team coach so happen to be complaining about everything as he was losing. Shoulder to shoulder 50/50 balls he thought were fouls when both girls were doing it (who am I calling the foul on both were leaning into each other etc..., which I stated to him once). Almost at the end of the 1st half I called a foul where he just gets irate and yells at me to the point where I'm sure he didn't even hear the whistle. I look over to him and tell him, "I called the foul what more do you want me to do?" The particular foul was not bad but was a foul so it didn't warrant a yellow, but he kept with it at which point I gave him a yellow to get him quiet and calm down. During halftime someone comes over to me, whom I thought was an assistant coach or something for this team, and he comes up and tells me there are 2 girls with soft tissue injuries...I forget what else he said. It took me a minute to realize he was a parent at which point I looked at him and said "who are you?" Then realizing he was a parent, I told him you aren't supposed to be on this side of the field and you are never to approach a referee ever. He got an attitude and i told him that he needed to leave the fields and go to his car and that I would not start the game back up until he was gone. He walks over and talks with some parents and starts to walk off but then a lot of the other parents decide to grab their kids and just leave. I'm sure with that guy stating I said something or did something I didn't do. The coach just looks at me gestures in a kind of irate ways and walks off the field. The referee assignor was right there watching from another field, never said I did anything wrong. The other coach stated the same. The parents were calling me racist and all other types of things which is typical when people get to their lowest common denominator and have no other leg to stand on. I called the game, and eventually the director and coach of that team that walked off apologized to the other club for the behavior of that coach and parents. Sometimes parent and coaches are indeed just a-holes. First and only time a team has ever walked off a field and forfeited a game while I was refereeing. I mean it was quite easy for the coach to make me the scapegoat considering they were down about 6-1 or 6-2 at the end of the first half. I'm sure he had no interest in playing that 2nd half anyway. I never said I'm perfect. I do mess up calls, and if I can correct them prior to the ball being back in play I do. I rarely make a bad call that affects the outcome of the game though. I can't even think of but maybe one ever where it might have. That is always my goal and the goal to all my ARs when I'm centering. I tell them lets not be the reason a team wins or loses based on a bad call we make. Most of my errors are not seeing who it went out of bounds on due to too many people being around the ball, or maybe I might miss a handball occasionally because I didn't see it. I'm sure I miss fouls sometimes but I can only call what I can see. Really appreciate your reply and perspective, and you're right, I think we have discussed this on this board before. I think I was probably over-generalizing with some of my thoughts, and you being one who is actually out there "in the arena" definitely puts it in a different perspective. And I completely agree with you about parents generally being less "mouthy" the older the kids get. I know for me, I was a lot more vocal when my kids were younger, and gradually I realized that a) it's a hard job; b) I often have a much worse view of what happened that the ref or AR does; c) they know the rules and how to interpret them better than I do; and d) I sound like an idiot when I keep going on at the ref, to the point where my kids (and usually their coach) get pissed and/or embarrassed at my behavior. So I try to shut up as much as humanly possible now! Thanks again for being out there and putting up with all of us! |
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Post by bolo on Sept 14, 2022 15:51:43 GMT -5
Being fit, and being 16-17 year old boy fit are two different things. As I said before an AR may very well be in line on an initial pass of a counter attack and then everything speed up so quickly he is never able to get back even with the line till it gets around the 18 and the attacker slows down to let his teammates catch up to him. I've seen many fit adults that couldn't keep up with those kids. I don't think not being able to keep up in that situation is an unfit referee. If you consider it to be then you probably should referee as an AR a bit and get a different perspective. In my opinion in situations like that as long as the AR got the initial pass correct as far as offside goes, as long as he is running with the play at that point even if he is trailing a bit because the players are faster I find that most if not all that know what they are doing (including myself) can still get an offside right trailing 5-10 yards from the actual ball after the initial pass as generally all the attacking players run even with the ball or behind the guy with the ball anyway as they are trying to catch up to that breakaway. Situations as what you describe though are unacceptable with the AR not knowing what he is doing or just not caring. I agree a person that doesn't even attempt to keep up, or doesn't even care is a problem though. I don't expect a 60 year old man (or woman) to keep up with top level teen age girls or boys. I am talking about those that don't try. I have been an AR on the sidelines of my kids games (unpaid volunteer) and I know it is hard. I give them the benefit if they are trying. I could never do it now with my arthritis so I would never get paid for it. I had to "volunteer" AR one of my kids' games earlier this fall. I'm in pretty decent shape for my mid-40's, but all I can say is I'm glad it was an early morning game and was overcast! I worked up a good enough sweat trying to keep up with these kids as it was, couldn't imagine it being 95 degrees under blazing sun on turf! I also found myself ball watching a lot, and fell behind/in front of the back line several times. Wasn't a huge deal because the center ref (really nice guy) only told me to call offside if it was blatantly obvious, like a few yards off or more, and just focus on who the ball went out off of. Even that was a challenge, and I know for a fact I missed at least one of those calls, if not more. When in doubt, the players usually know who it went off of and instinctively the one who should be taking the throw goes and grabs it while the other team walks away, but even that's not 100% accurate. Again, not as easy as it looks. |
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dc
Jr. Academy
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Post by dc on Sept 14, 2022 16:52:31 GMT -5
I disagree that 99.9% of the time coaches only yell (at refs) when their team is down. They may not yell as much when they're winning, but if they think a call went against them- and especially if it involves player safety- most are still going to let the ref hear about it. I hate that you have come to feel that you have to come into every game assuming the parents/fans are going to be awful, or "the peanut gallery", as you put it. I don't believe most parents come to a game planning or hoping to yell at a ref. And even when they do, it's not personal, they just might disagree with a call that was or wasn't made. And whether you want to acknowledge it or not, refs do miss calls from time to time- they're human, just like the parents, coaches, and players are. And parents and coaches- most of whom at older ages have watched a ton of soccer, and a lot of whom do know the game pretty well, whether you want to admit it or not- are naturally going to yell out when they think a call was missed. It's human nature, and to expect everyone to just be silent and agree with every call a ref makes or doesn't make is simply ludicrous. It doesn't mean the parents are "a-holes or mean people", it just means they might have noticed (or thought) the ref screwed up, and they're going to voice their disagreement. Now, anything beyond the initial cry out, like continuing to ride the ref, is absurd and shouldn't be condoned, but it's harder than it seems sometimes to rein those emotions in. Especially when it concerns player safety. I have definitely let a few refs have it over the years when they've stared right at players getting taken out, elbowed, thrown down, etc.- obvious fouls, if not cards- and called nothing. When your kid, or their teammate, is lying on the field crying after taking a deliberate forearm to the throat, and it happens right in front of the ref and yet they let play continue without a word or whistle, see how easy it is to just sit there and stay quiet. I'm sorry, I promise I'm not trying to be mean or an a-hole. I know reffing is a difficult and often thankless job, and I appreciate those who take the time to do it. But I also think it's simply human nature to get upset when you see it not being done well, especially if player safety is involved. We have had this same discussion in another referee post. I believe in there I never said I had an issue with a parent just reflexively yelling "foul" or whatever as I agree that is human nature. It is the continuing after that, that is unacceptable. I think I also told you that the only time I am vocal now as a spectator is "player safety" issues and issues where the referee has lost control of the game and there is about to be a fight. At that point I might only remind the referee of player safety or that he should probably be calling more fouls or giving yellow cards to folks to settle down the game. I don't even care which side he does that to. It should probably be both if it has gotten to that point, but I'm not out there yelling and berating when I say that type stuff. I rarely encounter this issue anymore with referees in my older kid's games. That being said I was saying "peanut gallery" as a joke. In older and higher level games the spectators are relatively quiet when I referee. It is when you get into lower level and younger teams that the parents generally are bad, and no most of those parents aren't well versed in the rules. A coach may one off question a call just like a parent, but the ones that berate the referee and continue and continue I stand by my statement are 99% always the losing side's coach and it is mainly because they are losing. No referee has an issue with a coach having a conversation about player safety or stuff like that. That being said if you are calling the fouls and also giving warnings and cards where needed if they continue to complain about thinking their players are getting hurt I don't know what else they want a referee to do? I had an instance like what I said in the last paragraph once in a U12 girls game. I called every foul I saw, and warned a couple of girls that slid late or committed an excessive foul. Now in a U12 game at just an academy level (not higher level DPL etc...) I'm not giving as many cards out as I would in an older or higher level match. Most of those girls didn't mean to commit the fouls they did, and I just stop the game to explain to them why they shouldn't do it and why it is dangerous. 2 or 3 girls for one team got slight injuries during good 1-on-1 type soccer plays where neither team committed a foul. No one actually got hurt from any fouls I called. That team coach so happen to be complaining about everything as he was losing. Shoulder to shoulder 50/50 balls he thought were fouls when both girls were doing it (who am I calling the foul on both were leaning into each other etc..., which I stated to him once). Almost at the end of the 1st half I called a foul where he just gets irate and yells at me to the point where I'm sure he didn't even hear the whistle. I look over to him and tell him, "I called the foul what more do you want me to do?" The particular foul was not bad but was a foul so it didn't warrant a yellow, but he kept with it at which point I gave him a yellow to get him quiet and calm down. During halftime someone comes over to me, whom I thought was an assistant coach or something for this team, and he comes up and tells me there are 2 girls with soft tissue injuries...I forget what else he said. It took me a minute to realize he was a parent at which point I looked at him and said "who are you?" Then realizing he was a parent, I told him you aren't supposed to be on this side of the field and you are never to approach a referee ever. He got an attitude and i told him that he needed to leave the fields and go to his car and that I would not start the game back up until he was gone. He walks over and talks with some parents and starts to walk off but then a lot of the other parents decide to grab their kids and just leave. I'm sure with that guy stating I said something or did something I didn't do. The coach just looks at me gestures in a kind of irate ways and walks off the field. The referee assignor was right there watching from another field, never said I did anything wrong. The other coach stated the same. The parents were calling me racist and all other types of things which is typical when people get to their lowest common denominator and have no other leg to stand on. I called the game, and eventually the director and coach of that team that walked off apologized to the other club for the behavior of that coach and parents. Sometimes parent and coaches are indeed just a-holes. First and only time a team has ever walked off a field and forfeited a game while I was refereeing. I mean it was quite easy for the coach to make me the scapegoat considering they were down about 6-1 or 6-2 at the end of the first half. I'm sure he had no interest in playing that 2nd half anyway. I never said I'm perfect. I do mess up calls, and if I can correct them prior to the ball being back in play I do. I rarely make a bad call that affects the outcome of the game though. I can't even think of but maybe one ever where it might have. That is always my goal and the goal to all my ARs when I'm centering. I tell them lets not be the reason a team wins or loses based on a bad call we make. Most of my errors are not seeing who it went out of bounds on due to too many people being around the ball, or maybe I might miss a handball occasionally because I didn't see it. I'm sure I miss fouls sometimes but I can only call what I can see. Thank you for refereeing. Sounds like one of those instances that posters here have talked about. Parents were concerned that player safety was not being valued. |
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mamadona
Academy
Posts: 181
Member is Online
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Post by mamadona on Sept 14, 2022 17:13:16 GMT -5
Most tennis matches unless you’re an elite player, have no refs. Adults & kids ref their own matches. It mostly works, but yes there are usually a couple of little arguments over “bad calls”.
I realize this probably wouldn’t work in soccer though!
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 14, 2022 17:17:42 GMT -5
Thank you for refereeing. Sounds like one of those instances that posters here have talked about. Parents were concerned that player safety was not being valued. The problem was that I really don't know what more they wanted me to do there. I warned the 2-3x late slides and tackles and even told the girls why they shouldn't do that and what could happen injury wise. Those players never did it again. The injuries didn't happen due to fouls. They happened just during normal soccer type plays that did not involve fouls. One team was more aggressive than the other, and I guess because they were aggressive they thought aggressive = rough/fouls all over the place and that was not the case. I called fouls on both teams probably about equally. I'm all for making sure player safety is #1. I have complained to referees when I thought that was not happening in my kid's games even after I started refereeing, and its about the only time I will say stuff about now to referees. In those instances though the fouls and cards were not coming and the referee lost control of the game where I could see fights about to erupt. The game was never out of control in this situation. I'm sure it wasn't the coach's idea to not play the 2nd half in this instance but he was kind of forced to not play it when the parents over-reacted grabbing their children all because I threw a parent out that came across the field and approached me in an aggressive manner. Who knows what that guy said to the other parents, but I'm sure it was not accurate to what went down. |
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Post by rifle on Sept 16, 2022 6:31:47 GMT -5
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Post by bogan on Sept 16, 2022 6:49:50 GMT -5
I like the part about bringing out the catapult for unruly spectators. |
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Post by lfcfan on Sept 17, 2022 11:17:48 GMT -5
I printed this for my son last night! His first big weekend refereeing without me hanging around. |
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Post by rifle on Sept 18, 2022 15:45:48 GMT -5
It’s easy to referee! Story time. I was immediately certain during my 11am game today that I had made an incorrect offside decision (working as AR for Over 30 men). Ball was in a crowd of players about 30 yards from the goal - I was using my ears to listen for a touch because I saw an attacker lingering near the edge of the penalty area, about five steps behind the ( 2nd) last defender. Then the ball was played straight to him so.. up went the flag. The attacking team immediately freaked out and claimed it was played “off of” a defender. Because of the crowd and my focus watching the defensive line away from the ball - I realized that I had no idea whom played the ball.. Nevermind whom it bounced off of. The CR whistled and I immediately felt pretty sure that I had just screwed up. A lot of players grumbled. CR said something that I couldn’t hear to the biggest complainer. Game resumed. Now imagine the reaction if I hadn’t flagged a guy five steps behind the defense that received a pass! At half time the CR (a VERY experienced referee who is also an assessor) said “you must have read IFAB circular 26”… I just said “what?” He said “you made a great call” - assuming I head read “circular 26”. I was incredulous and frankly kinda confused at this point so I again just said “what?” CR said IFAB issued a clarification. CR then asked the other AR (a highly experienced regional referee) if he had read Circular 26. He said “yes - I read all the updates”. CR says “we’ll what does Circular 26 say”? Other AR says “what?” (At this point I’m just laughing and they start to argue and CR says to other AR “are you a lawyer or something”. LOL I digress. So “Circular 26” is a new guidance that says if a ball pings off of a defender from very close range and deflects to a player in an offside position He is offside. WTF!! CR said “you made the right call”. I told him I was certain he would be offering half time advice on how to see through a crowd or something - suggesting how to look at three things at once like is necessary to do this job. He again said “good job”. So I just said “thanks”. Then in second half I did the same thing again. I AGAIN couldn’t tell whom the ball bounced off of due to a crowd of players - but evidently it AGAIN deflected off a defender to an attacker behind the defense. I raised the flag. CR again said “good job” after the game. …I never did understand calculus. Edit: if you’re a truly committed fan - go read it. www.theifab.com/documents/?documentType=all&language=en&years=2022. I need to get re-certified for 2023. |
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Post by soccerparent02 on Sept 18, 2022 16:59:51 GMT -5
Never had issues with missed calls unless the game calls became safety issues. My only complaint was showing up to a game and the center was the same age as the players. In the top divisions it was our experience that the center at that age did not have the experience to ref that level because of lack of experience. Now our player is in college we have not had that issue arise. Good luck to all the teams!
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 19, 2022 7:31:25 GMT -5
It’s easy to referee! Story time. I was immediately certain during my 11am game today that I had made an incorrect offside decision (working as AR for Over 30 men). Ball was in a crowd of players about 30 yards from the goal - I was using my ears to listen for a touch because I saw an attacker lingering near the edge of the penalty area, about five steps behind the ( 2nd) last defender. Then the ball was played straight to him so.. up went the flag. The attacking team immediately freaked out and claimed it was played “off of” a defender. Because of the crowd and my focus watching the defensive line away from the ball - I realized that I had no idea whom played the ball.. Nevermind whom it bounced off of. The CR whistled and I immediately felt pretty sure that I had just screwed up. A lot of players grumbled. CR said something that I couldn’t hear to the biggest complainer. Game resumed. Now imagine the reaction if I hadn’t flagged a guy five steps behind the defense that received a pass! At half time the CR (a VERY experienced referee who is also an assessor) said “you must have read IFAB circular 26”… I just said “what?” He said “you made a great call” - assuming I head read “circular 26”. I was incredulous and frankly kinda confused at this point so I again just said “what?” CR said IFAB issued a clarification. CR then asked the other AR (a highly experienced regional referee) if he had read Circular 26. He said “yes - I read all the updates”. CR says “we’ll what does Circular 26 say”? Other AR says “what?” (At this point I’m just laughing and they start to argue and CR says to other AR “are you a lawyer or something”. LOL I digress. So “Circular 26” is a new guidance that says if a ball pings off of a defender from very close range and deflects to a player in an offside position He is offside. WTF!! CR said “you made the right call”. I told him I was certain he would be offering half time advice on how to see through a crowd or something - suggesting how to look at three things at once like is necessary to do this job. He again said “good job”. So I just said “thanks”. Then in second half I did the same thing again. I AGAIN couldn’t tell whom the ball bounced off of due to a crowd of players - but evidently it AGAIN deflected off a defender to an attacker behind the defense. I raised the flag. CR again said “good job” after the game. …I never did understand calculus. Edit: if you’re a truly committed fan - go read it. www.theifab.com/documents/?documentType=all&language=en&years=2022. I need to get re-certified for 2023. Yeah the deflection vs deliberate attempt at the ball thing pisses off coaches, players, and parents alike when called a deflection vs. a deliberate attempt. I have had to make that call, and I get shizat for it. Generally I just yell "deflection" to the center and he understands. You are right though I am like that as well focusing on the line and not watching the ball necessarily waiting for the contact sound of the pass rather than actually looking at the pass a lot of the times. When strikers are running right with the defense its the only way to really get the call right. You have to focus right on that line to ensure they either held or didn't held before you hear the "thud". |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 19, 2022 7:36:28 GMT -5
Never had issues with missed calls unless the game calls became safety issues. My only complaint was showing up to a game and the center was the same age as the players. In the top divisions it was our experience that the center at that age did not have the experience to ref that level because of lack of experience. Now our player is in college we have not had that issue arise. Good luck to all the teams! Looks could be deceiving here. First of all a kid that would be the same "Age Group" as the team playing cannot center that game by rule. He has to be at least a year older. Now they can AR any age but cannot center. So for instance my kid who started refereeing at 11 before they moved the age to 13 does center U16 and younger games now some of which are at a little higher level in tournaments. He started doing 11v11 centers 2-3 years ago mostly in tournaments then in regular seasons as he progressed. He would be a U17 player. He has plenty of enough experience to effectively center a U16 game even at a higher level. I wouldn't say that unless I had plenty of experience either ARing with him or watching him center games like that. I do agree with you though sometimes teenagers being thrown into a center are not a good thing when they are not experienced. Problem is sometimes that is all that is available to be assigned. |
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Post by soccerparent02 on Sept 19, 2022 10:38:32 GMT -5
I understand the shortage. However it was our experience that a 17 year old center ref at times could not control a u17 (16 year old players) and safety became an issue esp when the ARs are even younger. Once you lose control, there is no getting it back. Again, not been an issue in college matches.
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Tennis has it, baseball is bringing it in, let's get it for youth soccer! I'm kidding of course, but that's the only way we're going to see the behavior talked about stopping - can't piss off or hurt that robot's feelings like us humans). We've all yelled at some point about bad calls, and really as long as it's not the refs actually trying to affect the outcome of the game then there's not a lot to do other than become a ref yourself and do it better(Yes, i've been told that before as a dismissal of an outcome-deciding 3 blind mice bad call). In the end, this too shall pass and when we remember it's not the World Cup probably should put things in perspective. 
