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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 2, 2014 12:11:22 GMT -5
Saw some discussion on this issue on the spring soccer thread. worthy of its own post.
the aged ole question, the play up or not?
Some countries don't allow regardless of the kids ability, you play in the right age group.
our club has exceptions, but about 1 to 2 kids per year end up playing up, than gradually transition to their age group.
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Post by SoccerMom on Oct 2, 2014 12:50:02 GMT -5
Depends the age, i think once you get to select then you should drop back to age appropiate
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Post by special1 on Oct 2, 2014 13:26:54 GMT -5
I have mixed feelings on this issue but in the end, I think playing up is beneficial if the player has exceptional skill and miles ahead of his/her age group.
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Post by stevieg on Oct 2, 2014 13:53:28 GMT -5
I think it makes sense for players who are born in August (past the cutoff for Georgia Soccer) and are physically and technically able to stay with the older age group. They get to play with kids in their own grade level at school. Remember that at U15, these kids will be in 9th grade and playing HS soccer.
As for others, if a player can be on the top team, wants to do it, and gets significant playing time, then it makes sense up until U15 (or at least until Spring of that year). If a player is merely playing up on a 2nd or 3rd team because they don't like the coach or team at their age level (or more likely they didn't make that team), it makes no sense to me (and I know a few in this situation).
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Post by special1 on Oct 2, 2014 14:09:35 GMT -5
I think it makes sense for players who are born in August (past the cutoff for Georgia Soccer) and are physically and technically able to stay with the older age group. They get to play with kids in their own grade level at school. Remember that at U15, these kids will be in 9th grade and playing HS soccer. As for others, if a player can be on the top team, wants to do it, and gets significant playing time, then it makes sense up until U15 (or at least until Spring of that year). If a player is merely playing up on a 2nd or 3rd team because they don't like the coach or team at their age level (or more likely they didn't make that team), it makes no sense to me (and I know a few in this situation). Well said, this is what I was trying to say |
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Post by jash on Oct 2, 2014 15:34:26 GMT -5
The rule of thumb I've always heard is if a player will be one of the top 5 in the age group above them, play them up. Otherwise, leave them at their own age group.
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Post by spectator on Oct 2, 2014 15:39:07 GMT -5
I have mixed feelings on this issue but in the end, I think playing up is beneficial if the player has exceptional skill and miles ahead of his/her age group. This would be a very very rare exception - especially now with so many options for levels of play. In all the years my kid has played, I've never once encounterd a single player that was so far ahead of his or her own age group that it would warrent them playing for an older team. Nine times out of ten it's the parental ego not the kids ability driving that. But now - here in Metro Atlanta - if a player is truly gifted, they've been recruited or invited to be on a team with more like skilled players. the ONLY time I can see a benefit to a playup is at younger ages - Academy - the Post August 1 birthday kid who is so much bigger than his or her peers. But even then, they'd have to be skilled enough to hang with an older age group and not just sporting some Amazonian size. |
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Post by special1 on Oct 2, 2014 16:11:09 GMT -5
^^^^^ lol @ "Amazonian size"
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Post by setpieces on Oct 3, 2014 1:24:01 GMT -5
The rule of thumb I've always heard is if a player will be one of the top 5 in the age group above them, play them up. Otherwise, leave them at their own age group. I have a little different perspective because my kid is a play up (with an August birthday). Yes, my kid is of "Amazonian size" compared to others officially in his age group according to Georgia Soccer rules. However, not allowing a player to play up unless they are in the top 5 in the age group above them doesn't make sense to me for a couple of reasons.
1.) The Academy level should be all about player development. Depending on the individual player, they may need more of a challenge than their age group can provide. In the case of my kid, he typically plays up or down to his level of competition. When we initially tried out for his "official" age group I could tell he was only going about 1/2 speed and he wasn't as aggressive as he normally is because he didn't want to "hurt" the other kids (he was a full head taller than everyone else on the field and out weighed them by 15lbs). We knew this wasn't going to work well for his development so we requested a tryout for play up.
2.) The top 5 rule is a one size fits all. In our case, the coach on the top team looked at him and said he was "borderline" - meaning he had the size and maturity to play with kids in his grade level, but lacked some of the technical skill that the older boys had since they had been playing an extra year more than he had. His technical skills were still better than most in his age group though. The fortunate thing for us was that the coach realized his potential. He made the 2nd pool of players in the age group above him and is really thriving. He's definitely one of the most athletic kids in the top pool of players. Last week, he was promoted to the top pool because he's made so much progress with his technical skills. He didn't want to have the worst balls skills on the team so he's worked very hard to improve. This challenge is exactly what he needed to motivate him.
Yes, as a parent, I initiated the request for the play up. Not because I thought my kid was "better" than those in his age group, but because I know him well enough to understand how he responds to competition (he's been a play up for 3 years essentially). I don't think he would have been as happy or successful if I allowed him to remain at the younger age group. I know there are many that disagree with the play up, but there are some circumstances where it makes more sense for the individual player, parent/coaches egos aside. When he turns U15 he'll probably drop down to his "official" age group, but for now, the play up situation seems to be working well for his development.
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Post by silverback on Oct 3, 2014 7:47:04 GMT -5
Always a good discussion, which reminds me of a conversation I had with one of our old DOC's a few years ago. We were considering moving my son up at an early age and the coach said that you never move a player up unless that player is in the top 1/3 of the TOP team ahead, which is probably close to "top 5 rule" mentioned above. He also said you never want to move a child up to play on a second or third team, especially if your player is a gifted player. Your goal should be for him/her to compete, practice and play against the top players in whatever age group makes the most sense.
Also, as discussed with the DOC, there are other considerations. You need to look at the team your player would be moving up to. How does that team compare to the on-age team? Who is the coach of the other team and which coach would be the best fit for your player? What are the parents and players like on the other team? Do they share your commitment and goals?
In my son's case, he definitely was in the top 5 of the older age group, but the players/team above him were not nearly as strong as his own age group. Also, he was asked to play up at many games, but this caused some interesting dynamics on the older team, especially for the parents/players of his position.
Also, we discussed moving my son up two levels, which the DOC said he would still meet the "top 5 rule" in terms of skills, but the DOC felt he lacked the physical size, strength, and mental maturity to compete and it would not help him from a development perspective. Another thing to consider when making this decision. So in the end, we left him on-age and his team went on to much success (RPL, tournament championships, C1 championships, etc). In looking back, we definitely feel we made the right decision.
Last comment - in addition to movement at the club level, if your player is that good and loves to compete, you might be best to move to another club with a top team at your age group where he/she will be challenged, play top tournaments, etc. I realize its hard, especially if you and your players have strong friendships on the team, but IMO, you always want to play in the best environment that meets your goals (both player and parent).
My two cents.
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Post by youthsoccerdad on Oct 3, 2014 9:36:27 GMT -5
For most cases I think it is a terrible idea. When kids are looking to play up it is usually for a few reasons like -
- They have exceptional speed
- They have exceptional awareness
- They have an august birthday and are physically more gifted
- They have incredible technical skills
- They are just really good
- They are the DOC's son
The problem with playing up is not that the kids can't do it. It limits their development in MOST cases since it causes a kid to focus on their strengths instead of developing all of their skills. For example, if a kid is really fast with ok technical skills and they dominate their peers, some folks might move them up. When they play with the older kids, to compete they will have to focus on using their speed to be competitive. They will not have the opportunity to NOT rely on speed. Had they stayed with their own age group they could focus on technical skills, bad foot, etc. If they have great technical skills but okay athletically then the speed of the game will force them to limit what they do with the ball.
This is true for most kids. Parent's hate hearing it, especially the ones that do put their kids up an age group because it means they probably made the wrong choice. In their minds if little jimmy can compete with the older kids it is a good thing. What they should care about it how is jimmy developing as a soccer player, not whether he can compete or make a certain team.
There is no reason to respond and get upset and say that jimmy is doing great, I know that is how you feel. In the end none of it really matters since .00001% of our kids will be playing professionally.
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Post by soccergator on Oct 3, 2014 9:38:06 GMT -5
club takes it on a case by case basis. you see it alot obviously at u8's playing u9, then it just becomes a natural progression for the play ups to continue playing up. our club has a firm stance though, the second the kid no longer should play up, it will be re-evaulated and its the coaches decision not the parents. when you have a talented u8 kid their is no reason to hold him back with other u8s. Put it this way, we had a u8 that did and held his own against u10 players because we often practiced together.
at our club on the boys side we currently have the following play ups on each top team
3 at u9
1 at u10
1 at u11
0 at u12
ironically none of these kids are playups because of their size or birth dates, they are playups because of their skill level and understanding of the game.
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Post by setpieces on Oct 5, 2014 23:03:57 GMT -5
Great comment and I agree with all of your points. I should have mentioned that my son actually changed clubs this season. The previous season he was a play up on the top team of the old club as well. We changed because he was missing some of the challenge, and to be honest, none of the players were really developing properly in my opinion. At our new club, we have a larger pool of players that are often mixed during practice. We also have multiple coaches so we get an opportunity to learn from different perspectives (approach to the game is still consistent). Considering the environment, team, parents, and coaches were a very big part of our decision to change clubs this year. It's funny because I actually prefer the demeanor and approach of 2nd pool coach vs. the 1st pool, but everything else seems to be going well. Always a good discussion, which reminds me of a conversation I had with one of our old DOC's a few years ago. We were considering moving my son up at an early age and the coach said that you never move a player up unless that player is in the top 1/3 of the TOP team ahead, which is probably close to "top 5 rule" mentioned above. He also said you never want to move a child up to play on a second or third team, especially if your player is a gifted player. Your goal should be for him/her to compete, practice and play against the top players in whatever age group makes the most sense. Also, as discussed with the DOC, there are other considerations. You need to look at the team your player would be moving up to. How does that team compare to the on-age team? Who is the coach of the other team and which coach would be the best fit for your player? What are the parents and players like on the other team? Do they share your commitment and goals? In my son's case, he definitely was in the top 5 of the older age group, but the players/team above him were not nearly as strong as his own age group. Also, he was asked to play up at many games, but this caused some interesting dynamics on the older team, especially for the parents/players of his position. Also, we discussed moving my son up two levels, which the DOC said he would still meet the "top 5 rule" in terms of skills, but the DOC felt he lacked the physical size, strength, and mental maturity to compete and it would not help him from a development perspective. Another thing to consider when making this decision. So in the end, we left him on-age and his team went on to much success (RPL, tournament championships, C1 championships, etc). In looking back, we definitely feel we made the right decision. Last comment - in addition to movement at the club level, if your player is that good and loves to compete, you might be best to move to another club with a top team at your age group where he/she will be challenged, play top tournaments, etc. I realize its hard, especially if you and your players have strong friendships on the team, but IMO, you always want to play in the best environment that meets your goals (both player and parent). My two cents. |
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