Playing Time

It's frustrating though, you hear results don't matter, they are just 8-11 years old, yet there are 3 to 4 kids a game that never come out, and everyone else does with some playing only half a game etc.

When I coached one of my kids in the early years at the Y, I was so focused on trying to have equal playing time (which you were definitely supposed to do in that league at those ages) that I would spreadsheet out the sub patterns before the games so I wouldn't get confused or forget while the game was going on. We played 24 minute halves, so I would sub after 8 & 16 minutes each half. Usually worked out well, but it would kill me when one or two kids unexpectedly wouldn't show up for the game and my spreadsheet would be out the window!

Nah, my kid (and/or the next best player) just picked up the extra shifts...  Benefit of putting the time in as coach.

So I guess what I'm about to say will probably piss some people off but it is not meant with any ill intent. If we are talking about an ECNL player, high school age, and they are not getting "enough" playing time on the pitch, then realistically it's probably safe to say that they are not that good to warrant getting more playing time. Granted they may be talented enough to make the ECNL squad but probably if they are compared skill wise to their ECNL teammates, they would probably be considered one of the weaker players. As parents we have to be more realistic with ourselves, and definitely our kids, about what they are actually capable of doing. Just because someone has been on the team or at a club for a substantial amount of time, should not dictate that they get a lot of playing time. The real development usually comes from training outside of the club, and I'm not talking about once or twice a month. In season it's attending team practices the three days a week, then outside training on two days. Off-season it should be training at least three to four days a week and then any pick-up games that you can find. Usually players that do that "seem" to develop better when they are back in their club environment but also not every player is the same and some players can do all of those things and still will not be very good(which is okay). What we should be doing is pushing our kids to work hard and be the best "them" that they can be and stop comparing them to what others are doing. Players on the bottom of the ECNL team would probably be stand-outs on the ECNL RL, and players at the bottom on the ECNL RL team would probably be standouts on the SCCL team etc. etc. Now because it sounds better to say that my kid is on the ECNL team than the ECNL RL team, we will allow our kid to be on the ECNL team(again good enough to make it) but they won't play much because they probably aren't better than the kids in front of them. That's when we need to have the hard conversations with ourselves and kids about what's really a better situation for them in long run. I'm all about dreaming big but to make most dreams come true it takes a boat load of talent, hard work and sacrifice, which if we're being honest 98% of people are unwilling to do the last two. I wish your player good luck and if this is truly what they enjoy doing, keep them motivated, keep supporting them and allow them to fail and succeed.

I agree with everything you said above if, after tryouts the coach communicates the facts to parents/players before they commit. They should be told target roster size, expected minutes, and where the coach currently sees your kid relative to everyone else. He should explain to them how he typically handles subs. Then, knowing this information and before spending thousands of dollars on a recreational activity for children they can make an informed decision.

Assuming the above conversation has not taken place, here are my thoughts. 

- All players should play half the game.
- If the coach is taking players that they do not believe can have meaningful minutes, they should not accept them on their team. 
- While you mentioned HS age kids, anyone at a top club all the way through Junior Academy has seen atrocious adult behavior regarding kids, playing time, how they speak to them.
- There is no difference between ECNL, ECRL, SCCL-C, P1, P2, P3, etc. They are just levels to group kids of similar ability. All kids should play. All games are meaningless. 
- The odds are pretty good that at most one child from the Atlanta area each year will make it professionally. Only .8% of male D1 players make it to the pros. 

ECNL is glorified rec soccer with gold and glitter. 

Everything you believe about ECNL soccer is the same thing the U10 flag football coach believes about his team when in the championship I-9 game he doesn't play four players because they are not good enough and this is an "important" game. The same basketball coach at your church league that never subs his son so he can win. How stupid is that right? Who cares about I9 flag football or church basketball. If you have to win by being crappy to the kids on your team then what is the point. Oh I forgot, we are talking about ECNL ooohhhhh ahhhhhhhh. So special, so different that church league basketball. The lies we tell ourselves. 

This comes from someone who has kids that play or have played at every level, at every position. 

We ve done both-left and stayed. It really comes down to a realistic assessment of your kids talent vs others on the team in similar positions, coaching situation and other opportunities. The leaving decision was a very good move b/c we knew same coach who had typecast my son was controlling the player decisions for the new coach and we had an attractive opportunity elsewhere (better club and coach just geographically farther). For our younger son we considered leaving but stayed b/c we knew there was a new coach who had a reputation for appreciating our son’s preferred style of play and that worked out very well. So the one caveat on leaving as best option is that a coaching change can be a real opportunity so long as the new coach is his own person. I agree with others that don’t think a DOC would change anything.

As long as my kids enjoyed it, we stayed. If it was all about "everyone needs to play a half", then we would have stayed in rec ball, it's much cheaper and realistically we knew nothing(college opportunities) would come from it. I was never one that agreed that everyone should play equal minutes, especially once it got to Select. Playing time "should" generally be determined by what you can produce on the field, as well as attitude. I currently have one in college and one that has one more year of ECNL left to complete.

I really don't know of too many coaches that have those meaningful conversations after tryouts nor do I know of many parents that could actually handle that type of conversation if it were to take place. I am also of the opinion that once it gets to the Select stage that all minutes should not be equal. We can talk about whatever league level we want but once it's in the Select stage, it's all about winning and we all know it. We as parents just hope that hopefully our kids can at least get a college opportunity out of it because let's be honest, we've probably spent college tuition paying for the multiple years of club ball.

In order to determine if it was all pointless, you first have to determine what the point is or the goal. 

If the goal was to get a full ride scholarship to a school that you would actually want your kid to attend or go pro, then for all but a select few, youth sports will be pointless.  If you are looking for a financial return on investment, it is all pointless.

If the goal (or point) of having your kid play sports is being part of a team, learning to set goals and work hard to achieve them, experience the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat and respond to those emotions, development relationships around a similar interest, spending time with your kid traveling and the organic conversations that come from some of those trips, and many other life lessons, then being involved served all of those points.

When my kids started playing sports, soccer was the first sport that both of them played but they both tried a number of other sports (gymnastics, dance, baseball, flag football, basketball, tennis, swimming).  Ultimately, they both settled on soccer as what they wanted to do.  We started in a church league and then moved to club.  The one rule that we always had is that if it became a fight to get them to go to practice, that would be last season/year of that sport.  It had to be something that they wanted to do. As they got older, they set the goals for what team that they wanted to be on.  If they wanted to play for the first team and would work for it, we would help them achieve their goals by paying for it, extra training, going out to fields to work them, travel, summer camps, etc. If they wanted to play rec or somewhere in between, that was their call to.  It is their journey, not mine.  My joy comes from watching them strive and strain to succeed.

As far as leagues, we play ECNL/ECRL because that is the level that the kids wants to play at.  My son learned at a young age that he did not enjoy playing with kids who did not take the sport seriously and who goofed around during practice.  He wanted kids to take it seriously and not be a distraction so he could learn.  He wants kids to be at practice and for hard work to mean something.  There is nothing more disheartening for a worker than to see a kid who skips practice, goofs around at practice, or half asses it through practice to be given equal playing time.  He found more like minded players at higher levels of play so that is where he wants to be. 

This topic has taken an interest turn and I’m here for it.

Having one kid who played soccer and club soccer from age 6-19 but did not continue to play in college (wasn’t good enough - was tired of it feeling like a job anyway).. and a second kid that played music in all the school bands from 6th-12 the grade.. if I had opportunity to do it all over again?

I would encourage every kid to play music.

They work their ass off, learning individual responsibility, individual talent, accountability and teamwork just like sports. They’re comfortably dorky. They have skills that don’t typically cause injuries. They never get to hear some a**hole dad call a teammate a p ussy or get in a fight on the sideline. They watch the other bands compete and actually applaud when they do a good job. They have a bond just as strong as any sports team. They have just as much if not greater opportunity to catch a scholarship.

Most of the friends in my LIFE are from soccer but I think I will miss being a band parent more. If your kid is unsure what they want to do - encourage them to try music.

I agree-I don’t play much (any) competitive soccer anymore but I still

play the guitar! (Strum the guitar 🤣).

Thanks everyone! Lots of great replies. My child wants to go all the way (ECNL). He may or may not be good enough. I really have no idea, but we are the ones that are hesitant to spend all that money and travel time. My hope is he can be on a SCCL team and be happy where he is at and not terribly frustrated...a happy medium 

I also had excel spreadsheets for playing time when I coached rec! We really enjoyed it at U8 & U10 and the level of play was actually decent. U12 and older you have to be in club if you're serious IMO. There is not much team play in rec compared to club. My daughter played U12 rec in the fall when she was U11 age, then switched to club for spring and she almost immediately became a better player. She's now on a mid level team.

That's true, when I took my daughter to tryout for a select team, I saw the SCCL teams first and my kid could compete at that level. The following day all girls including ECNL team came by and they played a scrimmage game, it was obvious that those kids, at ECNL, were not only training 3 times a week, the difference in speed, strength and accuracy was visible.

So, I asked around and read thru this forum, and I found out that on top of doing their team training, they tend to do futsal, private lessons, strength and agility, etc. That basically translates into a couple of things, the willingness of our kids to commit to do extra training (train 4-5 days, and play 1 or 2) and a budget.

Currently my kid is at SCCL level, I am not sure if she wants to advance to ECNL. She has been doing some extra work, trains one or two days extra depending on how many games she plays during the weekends and that has helped her to have more playing time. 

It has been a good experience for her, she realized that if she trains more she gets better, and even on the frustrating part for example when she got rejected at some tryouts we talked and agreed to train harder, so it has helped to build her character too.