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Post by Yellow Card on Oct 6, 2014 23:10:11 GMT -5
What level of soccer do athletes need to play to be able to continue on in college if they desire? I am not talking a D1 scholarship, but just continuing to play at some level. For example is an athlete at Classic 3/ Athena C going to have a chance at playing D3? I do not know how competitive some associations are such as NAIA, D3 etc...how do you know which direction you need to encourage your child if you know they will never play D1 but they love to play and will want to continue on? |
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Post by rifle on Oct 7, 2014 5:41:59 GMT -5
There are D3 teams that could beat D1 teams.. So it isn't a simple equation.
A CL3/Athena C player at U13 may be entirely different by U17. So it is probably better to wait and see if there is love for the game (to continue competing) and let it happen.
Lastly, it's not necessary to play FOR the University, to continue to enjoy the game.
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Post by zizou on Oct 7, 2014 6:44:45 GMT -5
Not a simple question, but it is an interesting one with a simple answer at least at a quantitative level. Whether the data are simple to obtain is another matter.
One way to think about it is just simple percentages. What percentages of players on ECNL, DA, RPL, NPL, and different levels of Athena/Classic play teams get scholarships related to playing abilities at D1, D2, D3, NAIA schools? To do this correctly, we would at least need to know both athletic and academic scholarship contributions that were really related to the players' athletic abilities (because, eg, there are partials at D1 and D2 schools, and only academic contributions at D3 schools).
Such data could serve an invaluable public service.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 7, 2014 7:30:25 GMT -5
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Post by zizou on Oct 7, 2014 9:46:37 GMT -5
Interesting. But isn't there a rather large flaw there? If I understand what this person did, they looked at players at ECNL clubs, not necessarily those on ECNL teams. ECNL clubs will on average be the biggest highest reputation clubs with lots of teams at different levels. Maybe I am wrong, but this analysis says nothing about the probability of getting a D1 scholarship for ECNL vs non-ECNL players. What it says is that players at these big high reputation clubs get a better look. If the analysis had looked at the probabilities at these same clubs 5 years before and then 5 years after formation of ECNL then we would have something.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 7, 2014 9:59:49 GMT -5
you can play on any level its all about exposure, and from a skim of the piece, seems to be the take home point. but the reality is, a classic III or athena c team is not traveling to the big showcase tournaments and playing in the top groups. their are always going to be exceptions, not every kid at every d1 d2 school has played on a top level team, i'm sure some have limited options. those kids on classic III or athena C teams would most likely have to be on ODP teams or have other things on their resume to grab coaches attention.
i can't speak for the quality of play of d3, but i know some are probably very high quality and some others could probably be beat by our top u14 teams in this state.
keep in mind, most college coaches have a small recruiting budget, they need to go to the places where they get the most bang for their buck.
my club team my junior/senior year would play one of the local d3 college teams that had just come of losing in the national championship game, and we would typically beat them.
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Post by zizou on Oct 7, 2014 10:08:23 GMT -5
you can play on any level its all about exposure, and from a skim of the piece, seems to be the take home point. but the reality is, a classic III or athena c team is not traveling to the big showcase tournaments and playing in the top groups. their are always going to be exceptions, not every kid at every d1 d2 school has played on a top level team, i'm sure some have limited options. those kids on classic III or athena C teams would most likely have to be on ODP teams or have other things on their resume to grab coaches attention. i can't speak for the quality of play of d3, but i know some are probably very high quality and some others could probably be beat by our top u14 teams in this state. keep in mind, most college coaches have a small recruiting budget, they need to go to the places where they get the most bang for their buck. my club team my junior/senior year would play one of the local d3 college teams that had just come of losing in the national championship game, and we would typically beat them. Sure, but there was a specific question on the table that it would be interesting to answer in a quantitative fashion. Maybe we need our own database. |
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Post by soccergator on Oct 7, 2014 10:15:56 GMT -5
yikes look at the credentials of florida's class of 2015
2015
Bennett, Brittney M Grayson, GA
GSA 2012 Region III ODP
2012 ODP Thanksgiving Interregional
2013 Region III Europe Trip
Giraldo, Giovana M , FL
Monteagudo, Melanie F Pembroke Pines, FL Sunrise Sting
2011 August U-15 NT Camp
2012 July ECNL/id2 National Camp
Pelayo-Bernal, Mayra M West Palm Beach, FL Palm Beach SA
2012 U-15 NT Player Pool
2012 February U-15 NT Camp
2012 June U-15 NT Camp
2012 October U-15 NT Camp
2013 U-17 NT Player Pool
Rivera, Gabriela M Atlanta, GA Concorde Fire 2012
U-15 NT Player Pool
2012 Region III ODP
2013 U-17 NT Player Pool
2013 ECNL Frisco All-Event Team
Solis, Briana M Orlando, FL Florida Kraze Krush
2012 Region III ODP
2012 ECNL Sanford, FL All-Event Team
2013 ECNL Frisco All-Event Team
Watts, Bryce F Lewisberry, PA PDA
2011 Region I ODP
2012 July ECNL/id2 National Camp
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Post by 04gparent on Oct 7, 2014 10:57:30 GMT -5
Great Article. I think the data speaks for itself. My daughter is not at an ECNL club at the moment, but just by research that I have done it obviously provide more exposure for the players...
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Post by soccerfan30 on Oct 7, 2014 11:11:10 GMT -5
If player wants to play in college there are options for most players at all the various playing levels, many focus on playing D1 but that may not always be the best option for the individual. I always tell the players to pick their school based on academics first, soccer second and find the best fit for you individually. One percent of these players will continue playing high level soccer after college (semi pro, pro, etc) so their primary objective is to get the best education possible. There are no full four year rides in college- scholarships are renewed annually, now a coach may say he/she is giving you a full ride based on combined academic/athletic aid and you may in fact get that all four years but again it's renewed annually. If there is a coaching change he/she may decide to go a different direction and may not renew or a player may get injured and they may elect not to renew, again players should pick their college based on academics as things could change in the future in regards to the team. I know a player that was offered a scholarship to an instate D1 school, tore her ACL in her senior year of HS and the college rescinded their offer, she ended up going somewhere else.
i have coached players that went on to play D1, D2, D3, NAIA and NJCAA, several were high level D1 prospects but elected to play D2 or D3 for their own reasons, I had a former player who never made her clubs top team, played on the second team throughout high school, went to a two year school in GA and then transferred to Missouri (SEC) and was the teams co leading scorer her senior year, another got an offer to play for M.I.T which is D3 and cannot offer athletic aid but was awarded academic aid, another at Emory, Sewanee, Mercer, GCSU, GPC and many others.
Look at the rosters of the schools you are interested in, many D1 schools carry in excess of 30 players and some rarely see playing time, also look at your playing position and the class sizes ahead of you, ex: if you are a freshman GK and there are two sophomores and one senior gk ahead of you, unless you can displace them you may not play for a year or two if at all. Many players go to top D1 programs and then end up transferring elsewhere after a year or so for various reasons. Does the programs style of play fit your playing style? Additionally look to see if there is a good athlete to social time ratio, at big schools your "job" is academics and soccer, there will be little time for other activities, some kids chafe at that and want more time for other things, coaches will try to maximize their time with the athletes in order to keep them from off the field distractions, find an institution that fits your soccer/life balance.
i have seen Athena B and C players go on to play college soccer and get a good education, now the quality of play may not be comparable to high level D1 but they were able to go somewhere, play often and get a good education.
Regardless of your child's level of play there are college programs that they can play for and have a positive experience. As a former college coach and current club coach I always try to be honest and upfront with players about playing at the various levels and what to expect. It's not about me pushing players to D1 programs to boost my resume but rather to ensure they go somewhere to get a good education and at an institution that fits their expectations and needs.
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Post by spectator on Oct 7, 2014 14:51:23 GMT -5
Last year our coach put it perfectly - if your player wants to play in college, there are plenty of schools out there with soccer teams. If that's the route, you're going to college to play soccer not necessarily to go to the school you want to go to. She also said be realistic - she took our age group from the Elite team down and said that in that entire pool, there were maybe a handful of girls who'd see the inside of a D1 soccer scholareship and a handful more that may sign to play on a D1 team. We were not the Elite team so that was her gentle way of saying - be realistic, people. We did have a little over the top soccer dad who set his sights on a scholarship from UNC for his kid - hey - aim high but have a back up plan!
She did say - especially for girls - go to school for the education not the soccer. Your chance of making a career out of women's soccer is less likely than winning Powerball and not as profitable. Most D1 schools now have soccer clubs - my boss's daughter played RPL at club level and in high school and got offers to smaller schools. She wanted UGA and went there - played club soccer there and had a blast and got the degree she wanted from where she wanted it.
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Post by sidelinemama on Oct 7, 2014 15:25:53 GMT -5
I agree with the concept of choose your school for academics and then see how soccer fits in from there. I know the Club Soccer team at UGA is filled with girls that played high level soccer around Atlanta and some could have played D1. They are girls who all chose not to go that path, but they still get to play a competitive level of soccer on their own terms.
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Post by soccerfan30 on Oct 7, 2014 15:36:26 GMT -5
I agree with the concept of choose your school for academics and then see how soccer fits in from there. I know the Club Soccer team at UGA is filled with girls that played high level soccer around Atlanta and some could have played D1. They are girls who all chose not to go that path, but they still get to play a competitive level of soccer on their own terms. I agree- one of my former Tophat players (2013 HS grad) decided to play club ball at UGA as well and is having a great experience. |
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Post by soccerpapi on Oct 7, 2014 22:53:57 GMT -5
Nicely put, Spectator - Here is a generic top-10 for college play based on past experience:
1) Choose academics 1st. and soccer 2nd. - for most, soccer will most likely not be a career
2) If your player chooses to play at a level that does not offer athletic scholarship, that's ok, let them enjoy!
3) If you know early enough that you want to play D1/D2 - do research (find out what those college rosters look like, types of players/student-athlete requirements) and develop a plan early
4) The higher the level your player wants to play, better chances await if you are on a successful club team (Athena-A/Classic I, RPL/ECNL/DA/NL) - It does not matter which alphabet you choose (top 2-3 in your age group)
5) Join a team / coach, that will develop, have enough college contacts, and get you into the showcase / tournaments where the Colleges in #1 and #3 recruit from or attend
6) If you are not necessarily on a top team (Athena-C, Classic-III, etc), you can choose to attend ID camps at the schools in #1 and #3 that you are interested in (beware of additional cost)
7) If you are not necessarily on a top team (Athena-C, Classic-III etc), you can also attend College ID clinics hosted by local clubs (a number of College Coaches typically sign up ahead of time to attend those)
8) Again, work on your academics, and attitude (character flaws on the field, if any) to be able to attend colleges in #1 and #3 - If you don't typically get along with your teammates, and if you are a club hopper - word gets around. College Coaches talk to Club Coaches, and other recruits (a bad track record can hurt you, depends on the school/coach)
9) At U15-U18, your player must be pro-active, and must own the process (be the one initiating contact and learning life lessons in the process). Work closely with your Club Coach; Parents need to be supportive and enablers, but not do the work for their players
10) At U16-U18, enjoy the process and the journey (for 99%, this is the beginning to the final chapter of an adventurous book). Don't worry about your team mates' process, timelines, and offers (everyone's is different)
In the end, successfully graduating with a College degree, and getting gainful employment, and enjoying the College experience will be what matters, what level you played in College will fade away into the historical archives.
Have fun and enjoy the process.
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Post by zizou on Oct 8, 2014 9:23:20 GMT -5
The personal experiences and detailed advice posts are great. Love reading what people have to say. I do not want to assume I know exactly what Yellow Card was after, but it sounded like something quantitative. Yes you need to be realistic about expectations, and need to consider a number of important soccer and non-soccer-related issues when considering whether and where to play in college, but there should be a probability distribution that addresses what to me sounded like a very specific question. What we seem to know so far is that, on the women's side, being at an ECNL club, on average, increased the probability of obtaining a specific type of college scholarship. Although I am not sure, given what was presented in that article, this question has been addressed in the best possible way. But that still does not specifically address the level of play part of the question (Athena A, Athena B, etc), and it does not answer the question for different types of college soccer experiences (D1, D2, D3, etc). Perhaps such data have yet to be compiled in some readily obtainable format. |
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Post by Yellow Card on Oct 11, 2014 21:48:07 GMT -5
Thank you for all of your replies, they have been helpful. My child is not after D1 play.....loves soccer, but is not ready to commit anything and everything to playing at that level (right now anyway). We are not in Atlanta and don't have he same access to multiple teams as most here probably do. It is good to know that there are ways outside of having to play on a top team to be able to be seen by college coaches. My child doesn't actually play Athena C/Classic III but I thought that at that level (and even a little lower)you can still develop into a college level player because in my opinion the competition is still pretty good and if you have a good trainer they will help prepare you for the future.
I welcome farther discussion that includes what playing at different levels in college entails. |
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