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Post by 04gparent on Jul 19, 2023 8:52:19 GMT -5
Great article on Yahoo about the current state of the girls soccer and the pipeline to the USWNT. For those of us who lived through the last 5 years of ECNL, DA, GA, and USYS it may bring back painful memories. If you dont know the REAL history, this is probably the best article I have seen. It doesnt mention any Atlanta Clubs, but change the names in the article and you will get the history of ECNL, DA, and GA in Atlanta. sports.yahoo.com/us-soccer-girls-youth-development-ecnl-000044659.htmlGreat job by Yahoo of shinning a light on a major issue that no one seems to want to take on. |
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Post by soccerdad20 on Jul 19, 2023 10:48:40 GMT -5
Very interesting. We were not involved in youth soccer at that time, but I have wondered about why some clubs play ECNL and others GA.
That comment section though...
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Post by 04gparent on Jul 19, 2023 10:55:34 GMT -5
Very interesting. We were not involved in youth soccer at that time, but I have wondered about why some clubs play ECNL and others GA. That comment section though... Yea you bring up a good point... If your daughter or son is under u16 you may not know the history of how the current landscape was built... The comments are where people are venting their frustrations... Wow!!!! Its the most accurate article I have seen based on what we experienced in the Atlanta area from 2018 to 2021. |
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Post by soccergurl on Jul 19, 2023 12:03:45 GMT -5
|wit da tophattie top club in atl|
|wit ecnl tophattie top club in atl|
|now tophattie no have da|
|now tophattie no have ecnl|
|tophattie only have gal|
|me tinks tophattie have never recover|
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Post by atlantagray on Jul 19, 2023 14:15:26 GMT -5
|wit da tophattie top club in atl| |wit ecnl tophattie top club in atl| |now tophattie no have da| |now tophattie no have ecnl| |tophattie only have gal| |me tinks tophattie have never recover| if a third party can intervene with concorde and them, then they have some hope. |
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Post by rifle on Jul 19, 2023 21:38:23 GMT -5
It’s definitely crazy to know that until about ten years ago we had fairly legit P/R (local/state/regional/national) in a single pyramid - then US Club Soccer stormed the castle and it’s been a broken mess ever since.
Edit: Remember when state cup was something?
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Post by Soccerhouse on Jul 20, 2023 9:18:45 GMT -5
It’s definitely crazy to know that until about ten years ago we had fairly legit P/R (local/state/regional/national) in a single pyramid - then US Club Soccer stormed the castle and it’s been a broken mess ever since. Edit: Remember when state cup was something? Yea, the states completely dropped the ball. I remember watching a US Soccer meeting and all the states stood up congratulating Sunil Gulati etc. They needed to all come together and take a stand, the age mandate is and always will be sticking point for me. The idiots at US soccer couldn't' even tell us what age group a kid born in 2004 was. It was embarrassing. State organizations used to have meaning and power, now they are a complete after thought. I don't even understand how they are still in business. The feds take a lot of responsibility, but the states should have come together and taken a stand |
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Post by mightydawg on Jul 20, 2023 9:41:03 GMT -5
It’s definitely crazy to know that until about ten years ago we had fairly legit P/R (local/state/regional/national) in a single pyramid - then US Club Soccer stormed the castle and it’s been a broken mess ever since. Edit: Remember when state cup was something? Wasn't it actually US Soccer's creation of DA that broke the system? DA was the first move away from team focus and pro/rel to club focus and entitlement. ECNL then came in and filled that gap for the girls. Once clubs saw how it was easier to manage things on a club basis, instead of a team basis, the rest was history. |
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Post by soccerlegacy on Jul 20, 2023 16:13:11 GMT -5
It’s definitely crazy to know that until about ten years ago we had fairly legit P/R (local/state/regional/national) in a single pyramid - then US Club Soccer stormed the castle and it’s been a broken mess ever since. Edit: Remember when state cup was something? Yea, the states completely dropped the ball. I remember watching a US Soccer meeting and all the states stood up congratulating Sunil Gulati etc. They needed to all come together and take a stand, the age mandate is and always will be sticking point for me. The idiots at US soccer couldn't' even tell us what age group a kid born in 2004 was. It was embarrassing. State organizations used to have meaning and power, now they are a complete after thought. I don't even understand how they are still in business. The feds take a lot of responsibility, but the states should have come together and taken a stand Yep... "the age mandate is and always will be a sticking point for me" is exactly where I am as well. |
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Post by bogan on Jul 20, 2023 16:21:31 GMT -5
Ditto on the age mandate.
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Post by rifle on Jul 20, 2023 20:26:12 GMT -5
It’s definitely crazy to know that until about ten years ago we had fairly legit P/R (local/state/regional/national) in a single pyramid - then US Club Soccer stormed the castle and it’s been a broken mess ever since. Edit: Remember when state cup was something? Wasn't it actually US Soccer's creation of DA that broke the system? DA was the first move away from team focus and pro/rel to club focus and entitlement. ECNL then came in and filled that gap for the girls. Once clubs saw how it was easier to manage things on a club basis, instead of a team basis, the rest was history. Looks like you’re right! Google says Boys DA began around 07/08 and Girls ECNL in 09ish. Girls DA in 17. All under Gulati as president of US Soccer. |
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Post by triffling on Jul 28, 2023 8:23:27 GMT -5
Prior to the advent of the DA you had clubs chasing rankings points at different tournaments. You had USYS regional leagues and you had kids playing 3-4 games a weekend with maybe 2 practices a weekend. Kids were not learning how to play a full 90 minutes and were not being developed. It was all about winning and chasing tournament points.
The other thing to keep in mind is that US Club soccer started in 2001. Much of the complaining about the broken pyramid can be traced to this and not the DA / Ecnl fracas.
US Soccer could not legally only allow USYS as the youth sanctioning body. They were either sued or threatened with an antitrust lawsuit if they didn’t recognize US Club Soccer which was designed from the start to challenge the USYS pyramid. US Club soccer wanted to cherry pick the top clubs and offer them exclusive tournaments and leagues.
Look at SCCL and its parent org CCL in Virginia. These grew out of some “professionally” run clubs that didn’t want to deal with the largely run volunteer USYS structures. They wanted to play club v club and not through an open competition with pro/rel at each age group.
The biggest problem with the current system is that there are no standards. DA membership meant you met very tight standards that were enforced in terms of training hours, max games, player health and safety (concussion safety was rolled out here first). Additionally, referees were part of the development process. The league assigned through US soccer’s referee structure and not on a club by club basis like ecnl, which meant you got the best referees available and who received additional training, feedback and assessments on practically every match. With ecnl and now the GA you basically get the assignor’s best buddies who are often not fit and who are not using these matches to develop into better referees looking to to move up to the college and pro ranks.
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Post by fanatic21 on Jul 28, 2023 10:13:08 GMT -5
So do other national federations govern the country’s youth clubs and require them to maintain certain standards, or was the implementation of DA in the US pretty unique?
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Post by soccerfam404 on Aug 3, 2023 10:11:38 GMT -5
Assuming rumors are true, seems like it would be fairly easy to bring anti-competitive case against ECNL and Georgia teams for keeping TH out of ECNL. Not my circus, not my monkeys-but definitely smoke there.
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Post by bogan on Aug 3, 2023 10:46:52 GMT -5
Assuming rumors are true, seems like it would be fairly easy to bring anti-competitive case against ECNL and Georgia teams for keeping TH out of ECNL. Not my circus, not my monkeys-but definitely smoke there. . Not my fight either, but I think AFC (girls) could be included in this argument as well. |
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Post by mightydawg on Aug 3, 2023 10:55:19 GMT -5
Assuming rumors are true, seems like it would be fairly easy to bring anti-competitive case against ECNL and Georgia teams for keeping TH out of ECNL. Not my circus, not my monkeys-but definitely smoke there. How so? ECNL is not a monopoly. Not allowing Tophat and AFC does not limit, restrict or eliminate competition in the market. There are tons of other soccer options as illustrated by all of the other alphabet leagues--GA Soccer, NL, NL Pro, Elite 64, GA, DPL, NPL, SCCL, etc. In fact, the argument is probably stronger that if ECNL allowed Tophat and/or AFC into the league that it is reducing competition in a market with ECNL by eliminating other options from the market. |
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Post by soccerfam404 on Aug 3, 2023 12:38:25 GMT -5
Not antitrust lawyer, but two or more groups acting to restrict competition or boycott a competitor within top tier market for their own benefit by excluding the potential competitor might be a theory. Given the market, we all know you can charge more so potential negative impact on consumers as well as on the boycotted victim. There can be reasonable justifications for exclusions-not adequate training etc-but unlikely to be supported here. Would require commercial activity as judicially defined. Bet there are lots of smoking gun texts/emails around the time based on this article if discovered too. Group boycotts are a per se antitrust violation if elements proven.
As i said, not my circus…so no more from me…but i thought it was interesting
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Post by soccerlegacy on Aug 3, 2023 16:22:42 GMT -5
Not antitrust lawyer, but two or more groups acting to restrict competition or boycott a competitor within top tier market for their own benefit by excluding the potential competitor might be a theory. Given the market, we all know you can charge more so potential negative impact on consumers as well as on the boycotted victim. There can be reasonable justifications for exclusions-not adequate training etc-but unlikely to be supported here. Would require commercial activity as judicially defined. Bet there are lots of smoking gun texts/emails around the time based on this article if discovered too. Group boycotts are a per se antitrust violation if elements proven. As i said, not my circus…so no more from me…but i thought it was interesting First off, let me stipulate that I no nothing about the legal profession, antitrust measure, and the like. Nothing, nada ... but I'm bored so I thought I'd play along. So you can also ignore this if you'd like.   If I wanted to open a Chic-Fil-a, had the money and the means, but then specifically requested that I wanted to open one within a few miles of 5 other Chic-Fil-a's and was told "no" by the Chic-Fil-a corporation because they didn't think it would benefit them or the other franchises, would I have a lawsuit? |
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Post by bogan on Aug 3, 2023 18:48:09 GMT -5
Not antitrust lawyer, but two or more groups acting to restrict competition or boycott a competitor within top tier market for their own benefit by excluding the potential competitor might be a theory. Given the market, we all know you can charge more so potential negative impact on consumers as well as on the boycotted victim. There can be reasonable justifications for exclusions-not adequate training etc-but unlikely to be supported here. Would require commercial activity as judicially defined. Bet there are lots of smoking gun texts/emails around the time based on this article if discovered too. Group boycotts are a per se antitrust violation if elements proven. As i said, not my circus…so no more from me…but i thought it was interesting First off, let me stipulate that I no nothing about the legal profession, antitrust measure, and the like. Nothing, nada ... but I'm bored so I thought I'd play along. So you can also ignore this if you'd like. If I wanted to open a Chic-Fil-a, had the money and the means, but then specifically requested that I wanted to open one within a few miles of 5 other Chic-Fil-a's and was told "no" by the Chic-Fil-a corporation because they didn't think it would benefit them or the other franchises, would I have a lawsuit? Now I want a Chic-Fil-a. 😂 |
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Post by rifle on Aug 3, 2023 20:34:07 GMT -5
Not antitrust lawyer, but two or more groups acting to restrict competition or boycott a competitor within top tier market for their own benefit by excluding the potential competitor might be a theory. Given the market, we all know you can charge more so potential negative impact on consumers as well as on the boycotted victim. There can be reasonable justifications for exclusions-not adequate training etc-but unlikely to be supported here. Would require commercial activity as judicially defined. Bet there are lots of smoking gun texts/emails around the time based on this article if discovered too. Group boycotts are a per se antitrust violation if elements proven. As i said, not my circus…so no more from me…but i thought it was interesting First off, let me stipulate that I no nothing about the legal profession, antitrust measure, and the like. Nothing, nada ... but I'm bored so I thought I'd play along. So you can also ignore this if you'd like. If I wanted to open a Chic-Fil-a, had the money and the means, but then specifically requested that I wanted to open one within a few miles of 5 other Chic-Fil-a's and was told "no" by the Chic-Fil-a corporation because they didn't think it would benefit them or the other franchises, would I have a lawsuit? nope. Because CFA vets franchisees and assigns them where CFA wants to open a new store, NOT where you want to open one. Grab your family and go… somewhere. |
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Post by soccerlegacy on Aug 3, 2023 21:26:34 GMT -5
First off, let me stipulate that I no nothing about the legal profession, antitrust measure, and the like. Nothing, nada ... but I'm bored so I thought I'd play along. So you can also ignore this if you'd like. If I wanted to open a Chic-Fil-a, had the money and the means, but then specifically requested that I wanted to open one within a few miles of 5 other Chic-Fil-a's and was told "no" by the Chic-Fil-a corporation because they didn't think it would benefit them or the other franchises, would I have a lawsuit? nope. Because CFA vets franchisees and assigns them where CFA wants to open a new store, NOT where you want to open one. Grab your family and go… somewhere. Yep, I actually do know this... it was a hypothetical. The question is, if a corporation/business feels it already has enough locations and the market is saturated, why would you as a corporation/business be obligated to add yet another location in the area and take away from your current franchisees market share. Let's make it a Chipotle instead, lol. |
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Post by rifle on Aug 4, 2023 12:17:03 GMT -5
Yep, I actually do know this... it was a hypothetical. The question is, if a corporation/business feels it already has enough locations and the market is saturated, why would you as a corporation/business be obligated to add yet another location in the area and take away from your current franchisees market share. Let's make it a Chipotle instead, lol. LOL. And I thought you made the point well / made me think. But I still believe the ECNL board was (is) keeping TH out out of fear and spite. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Aug 4, 2023 12:53:05 GMT -5
yea, from what i've heard off the record, things were said and because of that TH is being left out of ecnl etc.
I think the girls side ecnl is doing for the most part the right thing -- these girls are going to play in college.
the boys side is still an utter mess in my opinion. MLS next and ECNL have events the same weekend. Coaches are scattered etc, national team really only selects from MLS next etc.
But one of my biggest gripes is the amount of money ecnl and lavers brings in and how little seems to go back into the product. There in for the $$$$$$.
Call me crazy, but ecnl events should have electronic recruiting binders, why do we need to hand out phamplets, it all should be made accessible through ecnl etc. I've said before, the app could even be smart enough to geo tract based upon the location and time, know what games coaches are watching and auto have those rosters accessible etc.
I get it if a coach prefers old school pen and paper with a sheet, than that's another story. But make it easier for them etc. Parents shouldn't have to run around and chase coaches. Then after each match, a form shoudl be able to populate with what coaches were in attendance etc.
i just dont' see ecnl investing in the boys like how they do with the girls.
mls next to me is - mls teams then everyone else, 2 completely different tiers. yes, i know many non-mls teams do very well, but thinking more about perception and as a whole.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Aug 6, 2023 9:13:37 GMT -5
Yea, the states completely dropped the ball. I remember watching a US Soccer meeting and all the states stood up congratulating Sunil Gulati etc. They needed to all come together and take a stand, the age mandate is and always will be sticking point for me. The idiots at US soccer couldn't' even tell us what age group a kid born in 2004 was. It was embarrassing. State organizations used to have meaning and power, now they are a complete after thought. I don't even understand how they are still in business. The feds take a lot of responsibility, but the states should have come together and taken a stand Yep... "the age mandate is and always will be a sticking point for me" is exactly where I am as well. One more season after this one for us. Currently half our U19 team is 2025s, hopefully most come back next year. |
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Post by atlfutboldad on Aug 6, 2023 9:17:37 GMT -5
Yep, I actually do know this... it was a hypothetical. The question is, if a corporation/business feels it already has enough locations and the market is saturated, why would you as a corporation/business be obligated to add yet another location in the area and take away from your current franchisees market share. Let's make it a Chipotle instead, lol. LOL. And I thought you made the point well / made me think. But I still believe the ECNL board was (is) keeping TH out out of fear and spite. Isnt it TG? Is he still running NTH? They probably won't have a chance at ECNL until that changes. |
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