|
|
Post by atlnoleg on Oct 2, 2023 8:20:11 GMT -5
I know this is a topic that gets recycled a lot on this board, but I couldn't find anything recent discussing it. Just curious if anyone has heard anything about ECNL considering promotion/relegation for next season? It's been mentioned by the coach of my kid's team as a possibility or even probability for the club since most age groups have been at or near top of the table of ECRL the last few years. I am skeptical that this will ever happen, but it would be so welcome. The lack of quality some of these second teams in the Southeast is glaring. Traveling five hours for 11-0 games at what's supposed to be high level soccer is not good for either team.
|
|
|
|
Post by atlantagray on Oct 2, 2023 9:20:15 GMT -5
I know this is a topic that gets recycled a lot on this board, but I couldn't find anything recent discussing it. Just curious if anyone has heard anything about ECNL considering promotion/relegation for next season? It's been mentioned by the coach of my kid's team as a possibility or even probability for the club since most age groups have been at or near top of the table of ECRL the last few years. I am skeptical that this will ever happen, but it would be so welcome. The lack of quality some of these second teams in the Southeast is glaring. Traveling five hours for 11-0 games at what's supposed to be high level soccer is not good for either team. i would bet every dollar ecnl clubs make that it will never happen |
|
|
|
Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 2, 2023 9:57:55 GMT -5
honestly, it should happen with players but maybe not teams. top kids from the rpl team should jump up. that's what has happened at our club. the top rpl players have been rewarded etc. obviously the opposite happens as well, many have moved down etc.
|
|
|
|
Post by atlnoleg on Oct 2, 2023 10:15:00 GMT -5
honestly, it should happen with players but maybe not teams. top kids from the rpl team should jump up. that's what has happened at our club. the top rpl players have been rewarded etc. obviously the opposite happens as well, many have moved down etc. I don't know if it's happened at other ages, but it doesn't appear to happen at our age group. The only players who were promoted from RL were kids who were stashed on our roster but had already been earmarked for the ECNL team. We have two rostered players who haven't practiced once with our team. Last year was similar, except they did have to play with RL til there was an opening. They pull kids from other clubs and then "drop" a couple kids down who they really want to retain for first team. |
|
|
|
Post by Brinker on Oct 2, 2023 14:09:15 GMT -5
I know there are always exceptions, but for boys at least, the gap between ECNL and RL seems fairly wide. For example, one ECNL boys team took a number of players off another top ranked RL team from last season and it did not help. That ECNL team has not improved and even the top RL level players don’t compare to a solid ECNL level player (not to mention a top level ECNL player). In fact, ECNL teams have played ECRL teams a year up in age at friendlies and still win those games easily.
|
|
|
|
Post by 0zzy on Oct 2, 2023 14:39:47 GMT -5
Teams can get promoted from ECRL. I assume it is most likely to happen from clubs that do not have ECNL and are given the regional league as as tryout and if they excel can get promoted. www.soccerwire.com/news/ecnl-boys-welcomes-three-additional-clubs-for-2022-23-club-competition/El Camino FC – Salinas enters the league after being promoted from NorCal Premier’s NPL and will play in the Northern Cal Conference, while Kansas City Athletics and Sporting Springfield will make the jump from the ECNL Regional League – Heartland to the Heartland Conference in the Club Competition. |
|
|
|
Post by atlsoccer123 on Oct 2, 2023 14:47:38 GMT -5
I haven't seen that happen. It typically goes that players start higher and then get relegated when clubs want to bring in new players from other clubs (more $).
|
|
|
|
Post by atlantagray on Oct 2, 2023 15:30:35 GMT -5
Teams can get promoted from ECRL. I assume it is most likely to happen from clubs that do not have ECNL and are given the regional league as as tryout and if they excel can get promoted. www.soccerwire.com/news/ecnl-boys-welcomes-three-additional-clubs-for-2022-23-club-competition/El Camino FC – Salinas enters the league after being promoted from NorCal Premier’s NPL and will play in the Northern Cal Conference, while Kansas City Athletics and Sporting Springfield will make the jump from the ECNL Regional League – Heartland to the Heartland Conference in the Club Competition. This is ECNL *expansion This is not "promotion" With promotion, you need relegation, and there is no relegation. |
|
|
|
Post by atlnoleg on Oct 2, 2023 16:51:01 GMT -5
I know there are always exceptions, but for boys at least, the gap between ECNL and RL seems fairly wide. For example, one ECNL boys team took a number of players off another top ranked RL team from last season and it did not help. That ECNL team has not improved and even the top RL level players don’t compare to a solid ECNL level player (not to mention a top level ECNL player). In fact, ECNL teams have played ECRL teams a year up in age at friendlies and still win those games easily. Our experience is very different. I’ve seen more disparities between the top ECNL and the bottom ECNL teams than between the NL and RL teams within the top clubs. There are three RL teams in our age group that would likely be middle third of the NL division. Heck, last year we were the only RL team in the Atlanta Showcase, missing key players in each game and went 1-1-1. The loss was 1-0. These top RL teams have a ridiculous goal differential vs the rest of the pack. |
|
|
|
Post by 0zzy on Oct 2, 2023 17:45:18 GMT -5
Teams can get promoted from ECRL. I assume it is most likely to happen from clubs that do not have ECNL and are given the regional league as as tryout and if they excel can get promoted. www.soccerwire.com/news/ecnl-boys-welcomes-three-additional-clubs-for-2022-23-club-competition/El Camino FC – Salinas enters the league after being promoted from NorCal Premier’s NPL and will play in the Northern Cal Conference, while Kansas City Athletics and Sporting Springfield will make the jump from the ECNL Regional League – Heartland to the Heartland Conference in the Club Competition. This is ECNL *expansion This is not "promotion" With promotion, you need relegation, and there is no relegation. The question was can an ECRL team move up to ECNL. Call it promotion or call it expansion but it can happen. |
|
|
|
Post by atlantagray on Oct 2, 2023 19:42:24 GMT -5
The name of the thread is specific. These leagues are constantly looking to expand. It's not a novel concept, but it should be clearly differentiated from promotion and relegation.
The bottom line is a relegation/promotion system is not ever going to be considered in ECNL or GA or honestly any sport/league in the USA that wasn't founded on the principle.
|
|
|
|
Post by atlnoleg on Oct 2, 2023 20:13:28 GMT -5
Ok, so technically they could expand by adding an RL team. I suppose they just won’t relegate anyone.
|
|
|
|
Post by 0zzy on Oct 2, 2023 22:04:37 GMT -5
Yes, that’s the point. However, if the club already has an ECNL team it’s probably highly unlikely but not impossible if it’s a big enough club.
and Yes, there will likely never be relegation.
|
|
|
|
Post by soccerparent02 on Oct 2, 2023 22:27:46 GMT -5
There is ECNL expansion and probably some clubs who drop out but not promotion/relegation. Players at clubs may promote/relegate depending on performance as every club has a top team at each age group. The club has a goal at the competitive ages of making that team the best it can be which includes bringing players in from different clubs as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by soccerdad16 on Oct 3, 2023 8:17:48 GMT -5
The name of the thread is specific. These leagues are constantly looking to expand. It's not a novel concept, but it should be clearly differentiated from promotion and relegation. The bottom line is a relegation/promotion system is not ever going to be considered in ECNL or GA or honestly any sport/league in the USA that wasn't founded on the principle. Agree, the bigger problem is that the the Georgia teams are just way more talented then the other teams in the Southeast (mostly) so the impact of this would be relegating a Tennessee team, or South Carolina or Alabama and then they don't have any ECNL representation. ECNL would probably just end up with more 2nd Georgia teams. So as you said not going to happen. |
|
|
|
Post by atlnoleg on Oct 3, 2023 8:34:10 GMT -5
The name of the thread is specific. These leagues are constantly looking to expand. It's not a novel concept, but it should be clearly differentiated from promotion and relegation. The bottom line is a relegation/promotion system is not ever going to be considered in ECNL or GA or honestly any sport/league in the USA that wasn't founded on the principle. Agree, the bigger problem is that the the Georgia teams are just way more talented then the other teams in the Southeast (mostly) so the impact of this would be relegating a Tennessee team, or South Carolina or Alabama and then they don't have any ECNL representation. ECNL would probably just end up with more 2nd Georgia teams. So as you said not going to happen. This is pretty much what I'm getting at. I just can't figure out why the club--or coach as a representative of the club--would toss this out there as a possibility or even probability if there is no chance of it happening. |
|
|
|
Post by Keeper on Oct 3, 2023 9:03:49 GMT -5
There is zero chance a current Southeast ECNL-RL team gets moved up to ECNL next year. Everyone has ECNL locally and none of the clubs are ready to take on two ECNL teams. Especially considering how much Concorde is struggling with two.
|
|
|
|
Post by atlantagray on Oct 3, 2023 9:05:37 GMT -5
The name of the thread is specific. These leagues are constantly looking to expand. It's not a novel concept, but it should be clearly differentiated from promotion and relegation. The bottom line is a relegation/promotion system is not ever going to be considered in ECNL or GA or honestly any sport/league in the USA that wasn't founded on the principle. Agree, the bigger problem is that the the Georgia teams are just way more talented then the other teams in the Southeast (mostly) so the impact of this would be relegating a Tennessee team, or South Carolina or Alabama and then they don't have any ECNL representation. ECNL would probably just end up with more 2nd Georgia teams. So as you said not going to happen. Without strong top-down leadership from US Soccer (ie what ODP used to be or what DL was before it dissolved,) these leagues have no motivation to do anything other than bring in as many players/teams as possible. Otherwise, they're leaving money on the table. |
|
|
|
Post by atlantagray on Oct 3, 2023 9:08:41 GMT -5
There is zero chance a current Southeast ECNL-RL team gets moved up to ECNL next year. Everyone has ECNL locally and none of the clubs are ready to take on two ECNL teams. Especially considering how much Concorde is struggling with two. Great point- if anything, non-ECNL (girls') teams have a better chance of joining GA |
|
|
|
Post by atlnoleg on Oct 3, 2023 9:26:13 GMT -5
So the coach saying this is likely to happen is saying it because....
a) it really could happen
b) he is just talking out of his butt
c) it's a devious plot to give false hopes to players/parents
I'm inclined to think it's a combination of b and c. I was surprised when our very levelheaded team manager said it over the weekend.
|
|
|
|
Post by Keeper on Oct 3, 2023 20:43:00 GMT -5
So the coach saying this is likely to happen is saying it because.... a) it really could happen b) he is just talking out of his butt c) it's a devious plot to give false hopes to players/parents I'm inclined to think it's a combination of b and c. I was surprised when our very levelheaded team manager said it over the weekend. If the ECNL team above you is struggling there is a chance your club will promote your coach as the new ECNL coach. Then maybe your coach will promote their current players to replace the struggling ECNL ones at tryouts. |
|
|
|
Post by atlnoleg on Oct 4, 2023 6:21:09 GMT -5
So the coach saying this is likely to happen is saying it because.... a) it really could happen b) he is just talking out of his butt c) it's a devious plot to give false hopes to players/parents I'm inclined to think it's a combination of b and c. I was surprised when our very levelheaded team manager said it over the weekend. If the ECNL team above you is struggling there is a chance your club will promote your coach as the new ECNL coach. Then maybe your coach will promote their current players to replace the struggling ECNL ones at tryouts. Not in this instance. The RL coach is the righthand man of the NL coach and has been for years. |
|
|
|
Post by dawgs78 on Oct 4, 2023 16:34:23 GMT -5
Having a kid who plays on a strong Boys RL team, and one who has beaten the majority of ECNL teams we faced in tournament play, I would have to politely disagree with many of the comments. I think a lot depends on 1) the overall club, number of teams, and depth especially in the age group. 2) the coaches. The best coaches are not always coaching the top team. I know instances where the better kids have even preferred to move down to RL to play for a different coach. 3) not every kid who starts and plays well and likes the kids on his team wants to move to the top team if offered an opportunity. Let’s be real some kids would rather start then sit on the bench. 4) Some of the top teams are loaded with the big kids who hit puberty early. Size is a big factor but kids will eventually catch up. You see this often in the college game. My sons RL team went to nationals last season and played a team out of LA that would rival most top ECNL teams in the country. There are a lot of variables that come in to play and to make a blanket statement to say these kids aren’t any good and there’s a huge talent gap couldn’t be further from the truth.
|
|
|
|
Post by atlnoleg on Oct 5, 2023 8:22:02 GMT -5
Having a kid who plays on a strong Boys RL team, and one who has beaten the majority of ECNL teams we faced in tournament play, I would have to politely disagree with many of the comments. I think a lot depends on 1) the overall club, number of teams, and depth especially in the age group. 2) the coaches. The best coaches are not always coaching the top team. I know instances where the better kids have even preferred to move down to RL to play for a different coach. 3) not every kid who starts and plays well and likes the kids on his team wants to move to the top team if offered an opportunity. Let’s be real some kids would rather start then sit on the bench. 4) Some of the top teams are loaded with the big kids who hit puberty early. Size is a big factor but kids will eventually catch up. You see this often in the college game. My sons RL team went to nationals last season and played a team out of LA that would rival most top ECNL teams in the country. There are a lot of variables that come in to play and to make a blanket statement to say these kids aren’t any good and there’s a huge talent gap couldn’t be further from the truth. Well said. There are certainly more top players on ECNL--that's why it's the top level of many clubs. The top 4-5 teams in the Southeast are mostly made up of the best players in the region who have some combination of skill, speed, size that make them stand out from the next group of very good players. But too many people conflate "ECNL player" with elite. There are good ECNL teams and bad ECNL teams. The bad ones have players that frankly wouldn't be dominant at the SCCL level. |
|
