|
|
Post by 04gparent on Oct 10, 2023 20:15:11 GMT -5
Food for thought. This is not meant to stir the pot. How do you measure the success of a club?
National champions? College signings? Number of kids playing at the club? Number of pro players?
What are your thoughts?
|
|
|
|
Post by steamers on Oct 10, 2023 22:18:52 GMT -5
Ranking in league across age groups.
|
|
|
|
Post by Futsal Gawdess on Oct 11, 2023 0:33:28 GMT -5
This is honestly a straightforward question, although we as parents tend to complicate it. In my opinion, several factors should be considered beyond just wins, losses, and championship chances on the field to truly measure the success of a club. I won't address pricing and costs because, to me, all of club soccer is too expensive, so it's relative.
The first factor is individual progress. Evaluate your child's technical skills, tactical understanding, and overall soccer knowledge. It should be improving year after year. Secondly, consider the quality of the coaching staff and the Director of Coaching (DOC). Are they helping players grow and reach their full potential? Does the club have not just one or two "good" coaches, but a group that can step in when necessary and learn and grow together? Does the club offer an age-appropriate, progressive curriculum? Education should be the third factor. Is the club making a good-faith effort to educate players and parents about the game, nutrition, fitness, sportsmanship, marketing, and communication? The marketing and communication part is critical in today's soccer landscape. Today, soccer is about pushing for YNT call-ups and sharing college commitments, titles, and trophies. Finally, we should consider how the club supports college and scholarship opportunities. Given that less than 1% of all players opt for the professional route, the majority, or the remaining 99%, must focus on securing opportunities for college. So many times I hear from frantic parents who don't know who, what, when, where, why, of how to navigate the college recruitment process.
During my time in youth soccer in the ATL, there were only two clubs that came closer to these ideals: for the boys, it was UFA, and for the girls, it was Tophat...
|
|
|
|
Post by soccernoleuk on Oct 11, 2023 6:11:21 GMT -5
Futsal Gawdess hit the nail on the head here. Wins/losses probably play a role in ranking clubs somewhere, but they should be far from the top of the list.
|
|
|
|
Post by soccergurl on Oct 11, 2023 10:44:13 GMT -5
|me tinks no mo powerhouse clubs like b4 with watering down of ELITE youth soccer|
|ecnl, sccl-c, ecrl, sccl-p1|
|e64.5, sccl-p2, gal-1, sccl-p2|
|gal-2, sccl-p3, dpl, sccl-p4|
|piedmont, sccl-p4, mls-next|
|sccl-p5, academy, sccl-p6, i9|
|sccl-p7, nl, sccl-p8, nl-pro|
|sccl-p9, gpl, sccl-p10, RIAS|
|usl-academy, ymca, church league|
|
|
|
|
Post by bogan on Oct 11, 2023 11:46:02 GMT -5
|me tinks no mo powerhouse clubs like b4 with watering down of ELITE youth soccer| |ecnl, sccl-c, ecrl, sccl-p1| |e64.5, sccl-p2, gal-1, sccl-p2| |gal-2, sccl-p3, dpl, sccl-p4| |piedmont, sccl-p4, mls-next| |sccl-p5, academy, sccl-p6, i9| |sccl-p7, nl, sccl-p8, nl-pro| |sccl-p9, gpl, sccl-p10, RIAS| |usl-academy, ymca, church league| It’s gotten to be Baskin Robbins-31 flavors… |
|
|
|
Post by lajolla39 on Oct 11, 2023 12:19:29 GMT -5
I measure success by how close practices are to my house.
After that I look at the Coaches and DOC.
Next comes the parents. Are they loons or reasonable to be around.
Finally I check the ranking of the team both nationally and locally.
|
|
|
|
Post by mightydawg on Oct 11, 2023 14:52:51 GMT -5
I measure success by how much hate they get on the board. The more hate, the better the club. No hate, means no one cares about you.
|
|
|
|
Post by rifle on Oct 11, 2023 19:43:20 GMT -5
I like individual development as a measure of success. What clubs help all their players have the tools and opportunity to get better? Demonstrated curriculum and methodology for the top team and the bottom team?
I like player retention too - but that one is tricky because some clubs are excellent at young ages but lack league affiliation to support progression.
|
|
|
|
Post by randomparent on Oct 12, 2023 7:30:56 GMT -5
Food for thought. This is not meant to stir the pot. How do you measure the success of a club? National champions? College signings? Number of kids playing at the club? Number of pro players? What are your thoughts? If my kid plays on the top team and they play the whole game = equals successful club. My kid get stuck on the 2nd or 3rd team, has no opportunity to move up, they don't start, I am timing games to see if they play half = bad club. |
|
|
|
Post by atlnoleg on Oct 12, 2023 8:05:02 GMT -5
Tricky question. Measuring a club's success doesn't necessarily equate to individual players' success within that club. If a club finishes at or near the top of the standings across most age groups at the Select levels, that's success for the club. If they have players recruited by ATL United or other professional teams or send players to national ID tryouts, that's success for the club. However, how clubs arrive at this success can vary. Do they develop players or do they just recruit and replace? Some smaller clubs may do well at the academy ages but don't have the means to keep players at the select ages. Does that make those clubs less successful? Hard to say.
|
|
gob31
Jr. Academy
Posts: 26
|
Post by gob31 on Oct 12, 2023 11:16:10 GMT -5
I don't even know if there is an answer to this question, honestly. There are clubs that may be great at one age group, but absolutely terrible at another. And I don't mean just wins and losses. A club is a compilation of the staff, parents, coaches, and players, but each is siloed by age. The u-10's may be a fantastic program with great coaches and player development, but the u-12's could have a toxic coach that drives kids off. Which one is representative of the club when determining success?
|
|
|
|
Post by bogan on Oct 12, 2023 12:29:43 GMT -5
Usually with a tape measure. Sometimes with a yard stick…but mostly a tape measure.
|
|
|
|
Post by mightydawg on Oct 12, 2023 12:51:39 GMT -5
I don't even know if there is an answer to this question, honestly. There are clubs that may be great at one age group, but absolutely terrible at another. And I don't mean just wins and losses. A club is a compilation of the staff, parents, coaches, and players, but each is siloed by age. The u-10's may be a fantastic program with great coaches and player development, but the u-12's could have a toxic coach that drives kids off. Which one is representative of the club when determining success? You have hit the nail on the head. The single most important factor for any player is the coach. The crest on the jersey really has very little meaning except for opportunity. A club can set an overall philosophy that may or may not trickle down from coach to coach and team to team. Teams within the same club are radically different based on the coach. |
|
|
|
Post by rifle on Oct 12, 2023 12:56:15 GMT -5
I don't even know if there is an answer to this question, honestly. There are clubs that may be great at one age group, but absolutely terrible at another. And I don't mean just wins and losses. A club is a compilation of the staff, parents, coaches, and players, but each is siloed by age. The u-10's may be a fantastic program with great coaches and player development, but the u-12's could have a toxic coach that drives kids off. Which one is representative of the club when determining success? You have hit the nail on the head. The single most important factor for any player is the coach. The crest on the jersey really has very little meaning except for opportunity. A club can set an overall philosophy that may or may not trickle down from coach to coach and team to team. Teams within the same club are radically different based on the coach. Sounds like a failure on the part of the “director of coaching”. Is there a club with a “director of coaching” that is impactful in anything besides cherry picking the best teams? |
|
|
|
Post by cluelessparents on Oct 12, 2023 13:04:14 GMT -5
That’s cute what some of you all think.
Who cares about a club or a team? It’s all about individual success. Clubs don’t go to colleges teams don’t go to colleges players do. If your player is developing and getting looked at then it’s a win.
As for those mentioning national teams. That is laughable. The country fails when it comes to scouting talent.
|
|
|
|
Post by mightydawg on Oct 12, 2023 13:28:01 GMT -5
That’s cute what some of you all think. Who cares about a club or a team? It’s all about individual success. Clubs don’t go to colleges teams don’t go to colleges players do. If your player is developing and getting looked at then it’s a win. As for those mentioning national teams. That is laughable. The country fails when it comes to scouting talent. Bet you are loads of fun to be around at parties. While playing in college may be A GOAL for some, it is not THE GOAL. Sports offer many more lessons than individual success and moving to the next level. Most players hate playing with players who only care about their individual success instead of the success of the team. |
|
|
|
Post by cluelessparents on Oct 12, 2023 14:42:01 GMT -5
That’s cute what some of you all think. Who cares about a club or a team? It’s all about individual success. Clubs don’t go to colleges teams don’t go to colleges players do. If your player is developing and getting looked at then it’s a win. As for those mentioning national teams. That is laughable. The country fails when it comes to scouting talent. Bet you are loads of fun to be around at parties. While playing in college may be A GOAL for some, it is not THE GOAL. Sports offer many more lessons than individual success and moving to the next level. Most players hate playing with players who only care about their individual success instead of the success of the team. If someone is good enough to play at the next level they probably understand the role of a team. They can only care about playing at the next level while being a good teammate as they know their teammates help make them better. The reality is 5-7 teams from a conference advance to nationals of which very few of them move on to the next round and close to none will see a championship may as well look out for yourself. |
|
|
|
Post by atlantagray on Oct 12, 2023 15:13:02 GMT -5
Screen name checks out
|
|
|
|
Post by oraclesfriend on Oct 13, 2023 4:46:27 GMT -5
Bet you are loads of fun to be around at parties. While playing in college may be A GOAL for some, it is not THE GOAL. Sports offer many more lessons than individual success and moving to the next level. Most players hate playing with players who only care about their individual success instead of the success of the team. If someone is good enough to play at the next level they probably understand the role of a team. They can only care about playing at the next level while being a good teammate as they know their teammates help make them better. The reality is 5-7 teams from a conference advance to nationals of which very few of them move on to the next round and close to none will see a championship may as well look out for yourself. Interesting POV. I can name dozens of 05 girls who are playing at the next level who actually don’t care about teammates at all and it was clear by their actions on the field and OFF the field. Some of these girls are cutthroat, and clearly don’t understand the role of their teammates in getting them better. I think you are clueless there. Every player, coach and parent should be required to read “What Drives Winning” and there should be accountability for behavior that does not align with its values. In the long run kids will be better off in LIFE if they learn how to be a good teammate. |
|
gob31
Jr. Academy
Posts: 26
|
Post by gob31 on Oct 13, 2023 9:46:27 GMT -5
Bet you are loads of fun to be around at parties. While playing in college may be A GOAL for some, it is not THE GOAL. Sports offer many more lessons than individual success and moving to the next level. Most players hate playing with players who only care about their individual success instead of the success of the team. If someone is good enough to play at the next level they probably understand the role of a team. They can only care about playing at the next level while being a good teammate as they know their teammates help make them better. The reality is 5-7 teams from a conference advance to nationals of which very few of them move on to the next round and close to none will see a championship may as well look out for yourself. Isn't soccer ultimately a game that should be fun? If your only concern is getting to the next level, the joy of the game is going to be sucked out by the stress and pressure. If playing at the next level is all your kid cares about, they are setting themselves up for massive disappointment. Around 6% of players play at any level in college, and right around 2% play D1. That means you have a 98% chance of failure (I am assuming that a player with that type of mindset is a D1 or bust type of kid). Even if you are in the 2% that make it, the average D1 roster is 30 players, all sharing 9.9 scholarships. And that doesn't even take into consideration the fact that you drastically reduce your college options if you insist on playing soccer, which means you may settle for a much lower academic institution in order to play. Is that player now content with topping out at D1 or is playing professionally all they care about? It's a cycle that almost certainly ends in failure for the player. The chance of getting to play soccer professionally at a level that allows them to provide for their family is astronomically low. I'm a teacher and make a good bit more than a large number of MLS players, a top 20 league in the world. And my career won't be over by the time I'm 30 (or more likely after a year or two). Absolutely have dreams and goals, but take time to enjoy the game and your current team. I can't tell you how many former players have been hyper-focused on playing in college, but end up quitting and transferring to a school that is a better fit for them academically. Soccer isn't the be-all, end-all. I love the game. I've played my entire life and coached for the last 20 years. But ultimately it is still just a game. |
|
|
|
Post by soccerparent02 on Oct 13, 2023 14:13:46 GMT -5
I agree few players will play at any level professionally. That is actually true at the collegiate level as well. However if a player has that goal, top competition daily during practice and during games is needed. This is why most of the top players end up at the Big 5 by u13/u14 age.
|
|
mars
Jr. Academy
Posts: 13
|
Post by mars on Oct 13, 2023 17:19:42 GMT -5
I agree few players will play at any level professionally. That is actually true at the collegiate level as well. However if a player has that goal, top competition daily during practice and during games is needed. This is why most of the top players end up at the Big 5 by u13/u14 age. Ive seen the term big 5 2x. Can someone elaborate 😬 |
|
|
|
Post by Futsal Gawdess on Oct 13, 2023 19:09:00 GMT -5
I agree few players will play at any level professionally. That is actually true at the collegiate level as well. However if a player has that goal, top competition daily during practice and during games is needed. This is why most of the top players end up at the Big 5 by u13/u14 age. Ive seen the term big 5 2x. Can someone elaborate 😬 The Big 5/6, depending on who you ask are supposedly - UFA, SSA, GSA, TH, CF and AFU If you ask one set of parents who know about the origins of SCCL it does not include AFU, if you ask ECNL parents who are not fans of GAL it excludes TH... |
|
|
|
Post by soccerrivals on Oct 14, 2023 10:45:54 GMT -5
Ive seen the term big 5 2x. Can someone elaborate 😬 The Big 5/6, depending on who you ask are supposedly - UFA, SSA, GSA, TH, CF and AFU If you ask one set of parents who know about the origins of SCCL it does not include AFU, if you ask ECNL parents who are not fans of GAL it excludes TH... interesting... never thought SSA was part of big 5. they didn't get in ECNL, right? |
|
|
|
Post by fanatic21 on Oct 14, 2023 22:03:12 GMT -5
Interesting question. How do YOU measure the success of a club? If you ask this question to the consumer/family/player, simple answer may be, did your player have a good experience and get out of if what you hoped to get out of it. What consumers/families/players want out of a club could vary significantly. Priority for some is player development, maybe player exposure (to future opportunities like college or even national team). Some are simply good with their kid having a positive team sports experience that will help them develop as a human being - learn how to compete, deal with adversity, etc. While I do think that club soccer has gotten too expensive, and there is a lot of unnecessary travel, my kids have enjoyed their experience, made some good friends, gotten a lot more exercise than they likely would have gotten had they not played, gotten better at managing their time/studies/etc., as I mentioned previously, learned to compete and deal with adversity, and it looks like both will likely get to play at the next level, so I'd say overall for our family, our club soccer experience has been successful. We've been at 2 clubs and both helped in all of these areas. Only left the first becaues it was a smaller club that didn't have the highest level teams and our kids wanted to and were able to compete at a higher level. So I'd say the clubs my kids played at were successful for us. Maybe we could have had similar results with different activites and spent less money and time/travel, but our kids like soccer and wanted to keep playing.
If you ask that same question to a club, the criteria may be different. Not sure what club's goals actually are. Making money/getting and retaining lots of players? Winning? Helping players achieve their goals? Most clubs' goals are probably a combination of these things.
|
|
|
|
Post by lajolla39 on Oct 15, 2023 9:44:47 GMT -5
I'll start out with the basics...
- How close are practices to your house
- How good is the Coach Doc
- Are the parents crazy or normal
- How high are the clubs teams ranked
Right now I'm on my 3rd kid playing so here's more detail.
- Play futsal (or arena, or 5v5 small sided games) when young no matter what. The foot skills gained is irreplaceable and you can't get it when you're older.
- Understand what you're getting into if choose to play competitive u6-u13. You'll be traveling a lot for games that don't mean anything. At this age all the kids are roughly the same this invites parent social games and exploitive coaching tactics (privates with coach = playtime and/or positions).
- Often not playing competitive before u13 is better because GA/ECNL coaches will be combing the teams looking for the new Shiney. Not being put into competitive situations allows your kid to play multiple positions and not be pigeonholed. Sometimes being the best player on a poor team is nice because everyone thinks you're amazing + you get to be a team leader.
|
|
|
|
Post by soccerparent02 on Oct 15, 2023 12:50:05 GMT -5
I'll start out with the basics... - How close are practices to your house - How good is the Coach Doc - Are the parents crazy or normal - How high are the clubs teams ranked Right now I'm on my 3rd kid playing so here's more detail. - Play futsal (or arena, or 5v5 small sided games) when young no matter what. The foot skills gained is irreplaceable and you can't get it when you're older. - Understand what you're getting into if choose to play competitive u6-u13. You'll be traveling a lot for games that don't mean anything. At this age all the kids are roughly the same this invites parent social games and exploitive coaching tactics (privates with coach = playtime and/or positions). - Often not playing competitive before u13 is better because GA/ECNL coaches will be combing the teams looking for the new Shiney. Not being put into competitive situations allows your kid to play multiple positions and not be pigeonholed. Sometimes being the best player on a poor team is nice because everyone thinks you're amazing + you get to be a team leader. Disagree with last point. Not playing against the top players stagnates development. If your kid is always the best on the field, they are not challenged to be better. Rec coaches are often volunteers who do not know much beyond the most basic drills. Btw, thank you rec volunteer coaches for providing kids with the place to play. Top kids get better playing and practicing with kids at or slightly better them. |
|
|
|
Post by lajolla39 on Oct 15, 2023 14:39:25 GMT -5
I'll start out with the basics... - How close are practices to your house - How good is the Coach Doc - Are the parents crazy or normal - How high are the clubs teams ranked Right now I'm on my 3rd kid playing so here's more detail. - Play futsal (or arena, or 5v5 small sided games) when young no matter what. The foot skills gained is irreplaceable and you can't get it when you're older. - Understand what you're getting into if choose to play competitive u6-u13. You'll be traveling a lot for games that don't mean anything. At this age all the kids are roughly the same this invites parent social games and exploitive coaching tactics (privates with coach = playtime and/or positions). - Often not playing competitive before u13 is better because GA/ECNL coaches will be combing the teams looking for the new Shiney. Not being put into competitive situations allows your kid to play multiple positions and not be pigeonholed. Sometimes being the best player on a poor team is nice because everyone thinks you're amazing + you get to be a team leader. Disagree with last point. Not playing against the top players stagnates development. If your kid is always the best on the field, they are not challenged to be better. Rec coaches are often volunteers who do not know much beyond the most basic drills. Btw, thank you rec volunteer coaches for providing kids with the place to play. Top kids get better playing and practicing with kids at or slightly better them. You're correct. If your kid is good you don't want to be on a team where the players can barely tie their shoes. But the reality is coaches + clubs are always looking for talent. If your kid is good they'll find them/you. My youngest just started playing u6 rec but has been playing Futsal for 6 months. She scored rec goals left and right. Then boom out of nowhere she's invited to try out for the all-stars rec team. Which we all know is just a gateway drug for competitive teams. Personally if we could I'd have my kid just do futsal. As a parent it's much more entertaining to watch. Also the coaches are actually trying to implement tactics / passing. |
|
|
|
Post by soccerparent02 on Oct 15, 2023 15:24:36 GMT -5
Disagree with last point. Not playing against the top players stagnates development. If your kid is always the best on the field, they are not challenged to be better. Rec coaches are often volunteers who do not know much beyond the most basic drills. Btw, thank you rec volunteer coaches for providing kids with the place to play. Top kids get better playing and practicing with kids at or slightly better them. You're correct. If your kid is good you don't want to be on a team where the players can barely tie their shoes. But the reality is coaches + clubs are always looking for talent. If your kid is good they'll find them/you. My youngest just started playing u6 rec but has been playing Futsal for 6 months. She scored rec goals left and right. Then boom out of nowhere she's invited to try out for the all-stars rec team. Which we all know is just a gateway drug for competitive teams. Personally if we could I'd have my kid just do futsal. As a parent it's much more entertaining to watch. Also the coaches are actually trying to implement tactics / passing. Best wishes to your player but wouldn't call a rec all star team a gateway drug to a competitive team. Good luck but I encourage you to get her to a competitive environment as soon as you can if that is what she truly strives for...just know the best players are already training against the best players and are ahead of the game and other players in that respect. |
|
