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Post by atlantagray on Nov 17, 2023 9:56:00 GMT -5
I agree that college is where (for most men), professional aspirations go to die. Many of the players from Europe had washed out from their clubs and going to college was the second choice. it's funny how things are so different for boys/Men. For girls/women parents go bananas about playing in college. for baseball/basketball/football, trust me, parents go crazy about their boys playing in college. it's all about access, and girls have a lot of access to money for college via soccer. the money is there for those other sports for boys |
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Post by missionimpossible on Nov 18, 2023 8:52:33 GMT -5
IMO coaches should recruit strong local talent. This should make up 80-100% of the squad and they should play 18-year old domestic players that are physically and mentally ready to compete and provide these players with the athletic scholarships. Also, college coaches should have strong relationships with local clubs and choose to be composed primarily of players within a 200 mile radius. There are a lot of different recruiting philosophies out there but I tend to like coaches like Todd Yeagly at University of Indiana and Mercer’s Brad Ruzzo. They seem to be recruiting and playing A LOT of domestic, regional players and competing at a high level beating these primarily international squads.
Play and recruit 18-year old proud American players, who grew up loving the game, playing at local, regional clubs, and competing at a high level. Men’s soccer coaches are frankly a bit 2-faced when it comes to domestic players and recruiting, especially at state funded universities. Most want to appear like they are doing this but feel like they need the older international players to win.
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dc
Jr. Academy
Posts: 52
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Post by dc on Nov 20, 2023 16:43:49 GMT -5
I think superior players are superior. Doesn’t matter where they were born. I guess I misread your first post then. However, I don’t see many superior players in American college soccer. Not a diss to anyone playing, but the current system doesn’t promote development. You're way over-thinking this. People here are commenting on the number of internationals at US colleges. The majority of internationals coming in are superior players compared to the US-born players they are "displacing." Having better players (whether international or US-born) on the pitch makes the quality of play better in men's college soccer and provides a more competitive atmosphere to develop US-born players. Does "develop" mean that these college players are going to be on the national team? No. But I think we all can also agree that playing and practicing with better players increases player development. |
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dc
Jr. Academy
Posts: 52
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Post by dc on Nov 20, 2023 17:01:25 GMT -5
I guess I misread your first post then. However, I don’t see many superior players in American college soccer. Not a diss to anyone playing, but the current system doesn’t promote development. I agree that college is where (for most men), professional aspirations go to die. Many of the players from Europe had washed out from their clubs and going to college was the second choice. As with most things in life, it depends on the individual situation. For example, my oldest son could have pursued pro soccer out of HS and likely would have floundered for a while and washed out. At 18, he wasn't ready to compete against grown men in that type of environment. Instead he chose to go to college, put his education first and soccer second. He developed and matured during his four years and took advantage of the opportunities an academy would not have provided him. After receiving his degree, he played professional soccer in the US for a couple of years and now is playing in Europe (which he says is a much better system than in the US pro). College should be about receiving an education and degree. Soccer needs to be secondary. |
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Post by bogan on Nov 21, 2023 8:11:38 GMT -5
I agree that college is where (for most men), professional aspirations go to die. Many of the players from Europe had washed out from their clubs and going to college was the second choice. As with most things in life, it depends on the individual situation. For example, my oldest son could have pursued pro soccer out of HS and likely would have floundered for a while and washed out. At 18, he wasn't ready to compete against grown men in that type of environment. Instead he chose to go to college, put his education first and soccer second. He developed and matured during his four years and took advantage of the opportunities an academy would not have provided him. After receiving his degree, he played professional soccer in the US for a couple of years and now is playing in Europe (which he says is a much better system than in the US pro). College should be about receiving an education and degree. Soccer needs to be secondary. Good luck to your son. |
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Post by futbolhero on Nov 21, 2023 10:00:50 GMT -5
I agree that college is where (for most men), professional aspirations go to die. Many of the players from Europe had washed out from their clubs and going to college was the second choice. As with most things in life, it depends on the individual situation. For example, my oldest son could have pursued pro soccer out of HS and likely would have floundered for a while and washed out. At 18, he wasn't ready to compete against grown men in that type of environment. Instead he chose to go to college, put his education first and soccer second. He developed and matured during his four years and took advantage of the opportunities an academy would not have provided him. After receiving his degree, he played professional soccer in the US for a couple of years and now is playing in Europe (which he says is a much better system than in the US pro). College should be about receiving an education and degree. Soccer needs to be secondary. Glad to hear European soccer that’s been around for centuries is better than an eighth tier professional league. Now, just imagine those European clubs developing younger players. This is why they will continue to be better than America for years to come. |
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Post by atlantagray on Nov 21, 2023 10:49:00 GMT -5
As with most things in life, it depends on the individual situation. For example, my oldest son could have pursued pro soccer out of HS and likely would have floundered for a while and washed out. At 18, he wasn't ready to compete against grown men in that type of environment. Instead he chose to go to college, put his education first and soccer second. He developed and matured during his four years and took advantage of the opportunities an academy would not have provided him. After receiving his degree, he played professional soccer in the US for a couple of years and now is playing in Europe (which he says is a much better system than in the US pro). College should be about receiving an education and degree. Soccer needs to be secondary. Glad to hear European soccer that’s been around for centuries is better than an eighth tier professional league. Now, just imagine those European clubs developing younger players. This is why they will continue to be better than America for years to come. "The System" is downstream from 'the culture" There is no culture here for soccer, so the system is not going to function effectively until the culture changes. That is to say, the boomer fans of the 8th tier soccer league teams didn't grow up playing pick up soccer in the streets. When you start seeing American born kids playing daily pick up instead of basketball, then change will be coming. |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Nov 25, 2023 20:47:59 GMT -5
I guess I misread your first post then. However, I don’t see many superior players in American college soccer. Not a diss to anyone playing, but the current system doesn’t promote development. You're way over-thinking this. People here are commenting on the number of internationals at US colleges. The majority of internationals coming in are superior players compared to the US-born players they are "displacing." Having better players (whether international or US-born) on the pitch makes the quality of play better in men's college soccer and provides a more competitive atmosphere to develop US-born players. Does "develop" mean that these college players are going to be on the national team? No. But I think we all can also agree that playing and practicing with better players increases player development. I am not against foreign born players playing here on men’s or women’s side. I think it is good to be exposed to different styles of play and ways of training. I do not think all of these players should be foreign. England has quotas on the number of English players in the pro clubs. What is wrong with doing the same in the US? I do think it should be different for different divisions. It is harder to fill all of the slots in NAIA then NCAA D1 for example and therefore they should be permitted more international players. But do not discount the college system as producing national team players. Miles Robinson is a current USMNT player who came up through the US college system very recently. It is not going to be the norm, but it is not impossible either. Some boys mature later and sometimes gems slip through the cracks. |
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Post by king26 on Nov 29, 2023 22:03:13 GMT -5
IMO coaches should recruit strong local talent. This should make up 80-100% of the squad and they should play 18-year old domestic players that are physically and mentally ready to compete and provide these players with the athletic scholarships. Also, college coaches should have strong relationships with local clubs and choose to be composed primarily of players within a 200 mile radius. There are a lot of different recruiting philosophies out there but I tend to like coaches like Todd Yeagly at University of Indiana and Mercer’s Brad Ruzzo. They seem to be recruiting and playing A LOT of domestic, regional players and competing at a high level beating these primarily international squads. Play and recruit 18-year old proud American players, who grew up loving the game, playing at local, regional clubs, and competing at a high level. Men’s soccer coaches are frankly a bit 2-faced when it comes to domestic players and recruiting, especially at state funded universities. Most want to appear like they are doing this but feel like they need the older international players to win. That is a very simple approach to fixing it. What does a college coach do who is under pressure from his/her AD to win games and cannot attract the top local talent to their campus for a variety of reasons? (Cost, want to go out of state, not appealing school etc.) Some of it also comes down to operating budgets as well - only some programs have the $ available to fly to MLS, ECNL, GA games each weekend and watch kids play in-person all year round. Most coaches get to see video and maybe a kid at a showcase - in which case they have to go based off the level the player is competing at and most of the time, the European players are playing at a higher level. Not trying to defend all coaches or all programs, but a blanket statement that all programs should exclusively recruit locally and/or domestically is a very stubborn view but unfortunately not realistic. The top programs would run away with games because they can attract all the talent (Kid will pick a bench spot on an ACC roster rather than a possible starting or contributing minutes position on a second-tier school roster) - You know what foreigners aren't all that happy to do? Ride the bench for 4 years. |
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Post by lajolla39 on Nov 30, 2023 4:33:18 GMT -5
IMO coaches should recruit strong local talent. This should make up 80-100% of the squad and they should play 18-year old domestic players that are physically and mentally ready to compete and provide these players with the athletic scholarships. Also, college coaches should have strong relationships with local clubs and choose to be composed primarily of players within a 200 mile radius. There are a lot of different recruiting philosophies out there but I tend to like coaches like Todd Yeagly at University of Indiana and Mercer’s Brad Ruzzo. They seem to be recruiting and playing A LOT of domestic, regional players and competing at a high level beating these primarily international squads. Play and recruit 18-year old proud American players, who grew up loving the game, playing at local, regional clubs, and competing at a high level. Men’s soccer coaches are frankly a bit 2-faced when it comes to domestic players and recruiting, especially at state funded universities. Most want to appear like they are doing this but feel like they need the older international players to win. That is a very simple approach to fixing it. What does a college coach do who is under pressure from his/her AD to win games and cannot attract the top local talent to their campus for a variety of reasons? (Cost, want to go out of state, not appealing school etc.) Some of it also comes down to operating budgets as well - only some programs have the $ available to fly to MLS, ECNL, GA games each weekend and watch kids play in-person all year round. Most coaches get to see video and maybe a kid at a showcase - in which case they have to go based off the level the player is competing at and most of the time, the European players are playing at a higher level. Not trying to defend all coaches or all programs, but a blanket statement that all programs should exclusively recruit locally and/or domestically is a very stubborn view but unfortunately not realistic. The top programs would run away with games because they can attract all the talent (Kid will pick a bench spot on an ACC roster rather than a possible starting or contributing minutes position on a second-tier school roster) - You know what foreigners aren't all that happy to do? Ride the bench for 4 years. Wait a minute. You're arguing that American college coaches don't have enough resources to properly scout local MLSN ECNL etc players. But, for some reason they're able to scout foreign players from different countries? How is this possible? It doesn't make sense. The reality is that coaches are bringing on foreign academy players blind because they know a 23 year old former professional academy player whos only known soccer for the last 10 years will be better than an 18 year old MLSN or ECNL player. If private colleges want to bring on foreign wash out Acadeny players fine. Public Colleges that receive tax dollar funding should be 90% American players. |
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Post by missionimpossible on Dec 1, 2023 9:51:32 GMT -5
So true. For every international player that has a future on a first division team there are literally thousands of players washing out of international pro systems. For a college coach that is trying to win, he or she is betting on older and more experienced players to do it. AND their right, if they find the best 10-percent of international players or a couple of very special players you can have a very very competitive team, very fast. For example, thats how a D1 mid major like UNCG or Lipscomb can absolutely smash a much bigger D1 program or some of the top D2 programs can beat the heck out of D1 programs. However, it comes with tradeoffs as just signing international players is NOT a formula for winning. The majority of these guys are aging out for a reason. Also, where playing in college is what many US players aspire to, the international’s not so much and often feel it’s inferior. The league, coaches, teammates, schools, etc are inferior. So they have attitudes, “big attitudes” that coaches have to manage. Quite often, they are viewing this as just another league to become a pro. For me, I don’t think building an international squad for a program is sustainable not with the baggage these players bring and the transfer portal, especially for D1 mid majors, etc. I think doing the hard work at home in recruiting focusing on regional players 80 to 90% and a very small group, maybe 10% international and national players is a much more sustainable approach and would go a long way in building the right type of culture. It will also go a long way in building the US soccer pyramid and reputation of these institutions.
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