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Post by Soccerhouse on Nov 13, 2023 12:59:48 GMT -5
So over the weekend, I saw a tweet from UFA about their 2024 signing class.
Very impressive and congrats to all those who signed.
Granted I have not looked at concordes, nasas, gsa's or other clubs etc.
But here is the problem, the elephant in the room. of the let me just guess 20 players listed, only 1 was a boy who had signed.
UFAs top boys teams have been pretty good the current and past seasons, the u19s 2 years ago made it to the final four and I think came in 2nd in the conference, last years 19s lost a few critical impact players (one in particular) to AU, but that team at u17 was dominant and top of the league. and now the current u19 boys are top of the their division as well...
yet 1 signs.. 1 player.
I apologize as well, I don't think this is a UFA problem and I'm sorry if I'm making it seem like it is - but I think this is an indictment of boys ecnl. We are talking about some very talented kids etc.
System is broke in my opinion. I get it transfer portal etc, still early is what i'm hearing for boys recruiting etc. Same story every season though.
Ok, I'll hop back down now. Its pretty clear if you want to play big boy ball you have to be at an MLS club or you have very little chance of being recruited by a big dog regardless of how good you are. I said it before, there are kids at AU who wouldn't even make some of these other club teams - hence the level of frustration.
US mens soccer is doomed, because this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Its already hard enough for the young domestic boy, but its worse than ever - transfer portal, international player, MLS bias etc.
yes no doubt many insane top players at MLS clubs no question, but many insane players are elsewhere as well.
sorry, i'll stop now.
thanks for listening, and I apologize. (that was much cheaper than counseling for sure)
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Post by lajolla39 on Nov 13, 2023 13:10:45 GMT -5
For boys/men it's harder for ECNL because there's MLSN Academies and foreign Academies to compete with.
Put yourself in the shoes of a College Mens coach + think about where you'd pull talent from? Foreign and MLSN Academies are guaranties for talent, ECNL is a maybe.
Honestly colleges that receive tax dollars should be prioritizing in-state + American players.
What's going to be interesting is when foreign academies start training women to a high level + the players start becoming targets for college coaches. Or when an MLSN type league pops up in the girls side with direct connections with NWSL.
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Post by atlantagray on Nov 13, 2023 13:42:31 GMT -5
Well, sorry not sorry, but here's the other elephant in the room: Boys/men have been playing soccer outside of the USA for 100 years. As in, foootbol is part of the culture in 90% of the world for males. And they come here for an education, so USA males are competing against a much deeper and talented pool of players for scholarships. Ex: in 2021, 25 players on the roster for NCAA men’s soccer national champion Marshall were foreign-born www.soccerwire.com/soccer-blog/ncaa-soccer-and-international-recruiting-how-does-eligibility-work/Enter Elephant:::: Girls/Women outside of the USA started playing footbol relatively recently (compared to American girls,) but it's been part of the USA girls/women's culture for a couple decades now. USA women have dominated "the world" because there isn't a high level of competition outside of the USA. But...that is changing as evidenced by, amongst other things, this most recent WC. So, what you are seeing on the boys side is starting to happen on the girls side, and it will only get worse. Women from outside the USA are coming here for college/soccer, they're getting schooling/training, and then they're leaving the country after graduation. |
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Nov 13, 2023 14:13:25 GMT -5
While I welcome the inclusion of international students in our collegiate soccer programs, it's crucial for us to have a serious discussion about the overarching goals of college soccer in the United States. Embracing diversity among players undoubtedly enriches the sport and brings about an opportunity to learn a myriad of styles of play. However, I think it's detrimental to the game, particularly on the men's side, where rosters consist of 75%, 80%, or even 85% international players.
This raises a critical question: how does such a composition contribute to the growth of the sport domestically? This isn't football, basketball, or baseball. Soccer is still a developing sport that needs to be nurtured and managed until it's able to stand with the giants of Europe and South America. Notably, we've witnessed homegrown players from MLS academies, like AU, facing challenges as they contend with the influx of more established foreign players. Drawing inspiration from professional leagues such as the MLS, EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga, and Ligue 1, which have implemented caps on foreign players, it seems like a good time for the NCAA to consider similar regulations for both roster composition and playing time.
I will say it again: the intention is not to oppose the inclusion of international players; rather, it's about finding a balanced approach that fosters the development of homegrown talent alongside a diverse international contingent. Let's explore measures to ensure a more equitable and sustainable future for college soccer in the U.S.
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Post by crazy4soccer on Nov 13, 2023 14:46:18 GMT -5
Well, sorry not sorry, but here's the other elephant in the room: Boys/men have been playing soccer outside of the USA for 100 years. As in, foootbol is part of the culture in 90% of the world for males. And they come here for an education, so USA males are competing against a much deeper and talented pool of players for scholarships. Ex: in 2021, 25 players on the roster for NCAA men’s soccer national champion Marshall were foreign-born www.soccerwire.com/soccer-blog/ncaa-soccer-and-international-recruiting-how-does-eligibility-work/Enter Elephant:::: Girls/Women outside of the USA started playing footbol relatively recently (compared to American girls,) but it's been part of the USA girls/women's culture for a couple decades now. USA women have dominated "the world" because there isn't a high level of competition outside of the USA. But...that is changing as evidenced by, amongst other things, this most recent WC. So, what you are seeing on the boys side is starting to happen on the girls side, and it will only get worse. Women from outside the USA are coming here for college/soccer, they're getting schooling/training, and then they're leaving the country after graduation. My neighbor's kid received an offer for the above mentioned club that was eventually declined. He played ECNL at one of the Big 5 and many on that team received D1 offers and are still currently. It can and does happen. Takes talent and hard work. |
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Post by atlantagray on Nov 13, 2023 14:50:11 GMT -5
Well, sorry not sorry, but here's the other elephant in the room: Boys/men have been playing soccer outside of the USA for 100 years. As in, foootbol is part of the culture in 90% of the world for males. And they come here for an education, so USA males are competing against a much deeper and talented pool of players for scholarships. Ex: in 2021, 25 players on the roster for NCAA men’s soccer national champion Marshall were foreign-born www.soccerwire.com/soccer-blog/ncaa-soccer-and-international-recruiting-how-does-eligibility-work/Enter Elephant:::: Girls/Women outside of the USA started playing footbol relatively recently (compared to American girls,) but it's been part of the USA girls/women's culture for a couple decades now. USA women have dominated "the world" because there isn't a high level of competition outside of the USA. But...that is changing as evidenced by, amongst other things, this most recent WC. So, what you are seeing on the boys side is starting to happen on the girls side, and it will only get worse. Women from outside the USA are coming here for college/soccer, they're getting schooling/training, and then they're leaving the country after graduation. My neighbor's kid received an offer for the above mentioned club that was eventually declined. He played ECNL at one of the Big 5 and many on that team received D1 offers and are still currently. It can and does happen. Takes talent and hard work. My cousin's best friend's son goes to school with a kid who played ECNL, and one of his teammates went to Wisconsin and played soccer (full ride.) I'm definitely not saying it can't happen. It just takes a lot of hard work and talent. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Nov 13, 2023 15:53:44 GMT -5
No question there are positive stories out there and I'm not even talking about $$$ to come play
as we have said UGA and GA tech not having men's programs along with the rest of the SEC along with FSU and miami creates more challenges as well.
I don't see them ever adding men's soccer either (title 9 etc).
Their are success stories, but I here from some college they prefer to scout ecnl vs MLS next because the style of play is more similar to the college game. I'll here that though, and then see the next recruiting class is void of ecnl players.
Its tough - when the DA folded and the last years of DA, there was lots of mistrust between non-mls and mls clubs, and hence why many chose ecnl over mls next. MLS always wanted their own league with their rules. MLS must carry more cache with college coaches as well.
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Post by datrain on Nov 13, 2023 17:07:21 GMT -5
When my oldest son was going thru recruiting circles, the general consensus was that the D1 coaches prioritized MLS Next boys players over ECNL. I literally had one staff from the Big 10 tell me that they flat out did not look at ECNL players.....only MLS Next domestically. ON a national scale, the general perception is that MLS Next has better teams (both MLS and non-MLS) and is a higher level of play. It certainly does not help that there are very few D1 men's soccer programs in the Southeast.
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Post by rifle on Nov 13, 2023 17:39:54 GMT -5
My friend’s son (also my son’s friend- how’s that for irony?) plays for UGA club team and loves it. I went to see them play this fall at GT and it was a rowdy crowd. A very entertaining rivalry game.
It seems like the best choice, honestly. Not like a full time job for a student.
Edit: he played DA
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Post by soccerparent02 on Nov 13, 2023 19:36:47 GMT -5
My friend’s son (also my son’s friend- how’s that for irony?) plays for UGA club team and loves it. I went to see them play this fall at GT and it was a rowdy crowd. A very entertaining rivalry game. It seems like the best choice, honestly. Not like a full time job for a student. Edit: he played DA Was at that game as well. Kid plays for GT. Great game. GT made it to Nationals next week in Texas. Go Jackets! |
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Post by rifle on Nov 13, 2023 21:50:23 GMT -5
My friend’s son (also my son’s friend- how’s that for irony?) plays for UGA club team and loves it. I went to see them play this fall at GT and it was a rowdy crowd. A very entertaining rivalry game. It seems like the best choice, honestly. Not like a full time job for a student. Edit: he played DA Was at that game as well. Kid plays for GT. Great game. GT made it to Nationals next week in Texas. Go Jackets! Congrats! My son has an academy age teammate on that team too. |
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Post by missionimpossible on Nov 14, 2023 11:00:11 GMT -5
NCAA men’s soccer is completely different than any other sport. Completely different. It’s more of a second chance opportunity for 22-year old international players and a small pool of US players. Boys in Georgia that want to go to college should think about what they want to do with their life and what colleges they might want to attend first. Sometimes this aligns with college soccer but in most cases it does not. Sometimes kids settle and they end up somewhere they don’t want to be, unhappy, and end up transferring anyway. If cost of education is a consideration, like it is in most families, sometimes not playing soccer and going to an outstanding instate university, like UGA and GA Tech, are frankly much better options than playing soccer at a small, expensive private school or out of state school.
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thip
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Post by thip on Nov 15, 2023 8:26:08 GMT -5
I've coached/trained for 20 years. The league itself can certainty help with exposure but at the end of the day it all comes down to how much effort the players, parents and coach are putting into contacting college coaches. International players send videos and contact coaches daily/weekly. I trained at a smaller club and was able to place majority of my players. The best fit for them, NAIA, DII, Junior College, DII etc. The longer I coached and the more relationships I made with college coaches, the easier it was to place players. And I was always honest with the players and coaches on the level I thought they could play. Instead of league games I was playing colleges reserve teams. Getting my players on campus, meeting the coaches and players.
The question parents should be asking coaches, clubs and DOC's: what are you going to do to help my child get to college. Open weekends to take ACT's/SAT's, open weekends to have a planned visit to colleges. Contacting coaches to get players to a practice in Oct/Nov. Playing ECNL, MLS Next is not good enough by itself. The coaches need to be held responsible to do more. Does the club coach know what major you want to pursue? Wasting time pushing for a certain college if they dont have your major is a waste of time. I could go on and on..
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Nov 15, 2023 11:51:35 GMT -5
NCAA men’s soccer is completely different than any other sport. Completely different. It’s more of a second chance opportunity for 22-year old international players and a small pool of US players. Boys in Georgia that want to go to college should think about what they want to do with their life and what colleges they might want to attend first. Sometimes this aligns with college soccer but in most cases it does not. Sometimes kids settle and they end up somewhere they don’t want to be, unhappy, and end up transferring anyway. If cost of education is a consideration, like it is in most families, sometimes not playing soccer and going to an outstanding instate university, like UGA and GA Tech, are frankly much better options than playing soccer at a small, expensive private school or out of state school. I thought this was a fortuitous post that I ran across today: |
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Nov 15, 2023 12:27:13 GMT -5
I've coached/trained for 20 years. The league itself can certainty help with exposure but at the end of the day it all comes down to how much effort the players, parents and coach are putting into contacting college coaches. International players send videos and contact coaches daily/weekly. I trained at a smaller club and was able to place majority of my players. The best fit for them, NAIA, DII, Junior College, DII etc. The longer I coached and the more relationships I made with college coaches, the easier it was to place players. And I was always honest with the players and coaches on the level I thought they could play. Instead of league games I was playing colleges reserve teams. Getting my players on campus, meeting the coaches and players. The question parents should be asking coaches, clubs and DOC's: what are you going to do to help my child get to college. Open weekends to take ACT's/SAT's, open weekends to have a planned visit to colleges. Contacting coaches to get players to a practice in Oct/Nov. Playing ECNL, MLS Next is not good enough by itself. The coaches need to be held responsible to do more. Does the club coach know what major you want to pursue? Wasting time pushing for a certain college if they dont have your major is a waste of time. I could go on and on.. Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! I honestly wish we, as parents would focus more on the ROI for the thousands of dollars we shell out each year for our kids to play "high level" organized soccer in Atlanta and the country as a whole. In almost no other arena would we shell out loads of $$$ and be happy getting meager or zero return. Almost 100% of those who play after high school and club will play in college. So why doesn't every major club have a true recruiting director to help families navigate the college process? I would also add sessions on "funding college/soccer" While we are at it, I think teams should have a say in what showcases they go to. If most of your players want to go to school in the southeast, why waste time attending showcases in the Pacific Northwest (making a point here). Finally, I think clubs should reach out to local and regional colleges from all levels and put on an ID Camp for their players. It keeps costs down, gives their players the experience and comfort of attending a college ID session, whilst also giving families an opportunity to interact with and ask questions directly of college coaches... |
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Post by bogan on Nov 15, 2023 12:34:25 GMT -5
NCAA men’s soccer is completely different than any other sport. Completely different. It’s more of a second chance opportunity for 22-year old international players and a small pool of US players. Boys in Georgia that want to go to college should think about what they want to do with their life and what colleges they might want to attend first. Sometimes this aligns with college soccer but in most cases it does not. Sometimes kids settle and they end up somewhere they don’t want to be, unhappy, and end up transferring anyway. If cost of education is a consideration, like it is in most families, sometimes not playing soccer and going to an outstanding instate university, like UGA and GA Tech, are frankly much better options than playing soccer at a small, expensive private school or out of state school. I thought this was a fortuitous post that I ran across today: Interesting-around 1/3 are international. |
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Post by soccerman on Nov 15, 2023 13:01:28 GMT -5
Are there similar stats for the women's?
I'll go out in a limb and suggest the % of international women is extremely low. Less than 5% ??
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dc
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Post by dc on Nov 15, 2023 16:54:40 GMT -5
NCAA men’s soccer is completely different than any other sport. Completely different. It’s more of a second chance opportunity for 22-year old international players and a small pool of US players. Boys in Georgia that want to go to college should think about what they want to do with their life and what colleges they might want to attend first. Sometimes this aligns with college soccer but in most cases it does not. Sometimes kids settle and they end up somewhere they don’t want to be, unhappy, and end up transferring anyway. If cost of education is a consideration, like it is in most families, sometimes not playing soccer and going to an outstanding instate university, like UGA and GA Tech, are frankly much better options than playing soccer at a small, expensive private school or out of state school. I thought this was a fortuitous post that I ran across today: That's great! Having international players creates a higher quality of game and provides a more competitive atmosphere to develop US-born players. |
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Post by bogan on Nov 15, 2023 18:39:58 GMT -5
I thought this was a fortuitous post that I ran across today: That's great! Having international players creates a higher quality of game and provides a more competitive atmosphere to develop US-born players. How so? |
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Post by newposter on Nov 15, 2023 18:45:12 GMT -5
NCAA men’s soccer is completely different than any other sport. Completely different. It’s more of a second chance opportunity for 22-year old international players and a small pool of US players. Boys in Georgia that want to go to college should think about what they want to do with their life and what colleges they might want to attend first. Sometimes this aligns with college soccer but in most cases it does not. Sometimes kids settle and they end up somewhere they don’t want to be, unhappy, and end up transferring anyway. If cost of education is a consideration, like it is in most families, sometimes not playing soccer and going to an outstanding instate university, like UGA and GA Tech, are frankly much better options than playing soccer at a small, expensive private school or out of state school. So true. Parents and parents need to remember Zell HOPE pays full tuition for any state school and is kept as long as the student maintains a 3.0 in college. Although smaller private schools get some HOPE $ it is only $5000 a year. It does not cover anywhere near what is covered at a state school plus the income potential from UGA or Tech is usually much higher. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Nov 16, 2023 9:39:11 GMT -5
I guess I'm just a miserable a** at this point in life, because I think these boys leagues youth leagues are selling snake oil.
Look my kids would have been fat crack head worthless video game junkies without soccer, hence why we love the game etc. Keeps ya off the street.....(the hood of suburbia north atlanta...)
The lack of the open pyramid is a huge problem with this as well, because otherwise every top youth club would field a pro team at some level etc.
Not to get lost in the issues with youth soccer and the age mandate almost a decade ago now.....Don't get me started...
But a state school should have restrictions for scholarships for athletics going to international spots. If you have 9 scholarships and all are going to international students, Houston we have a problem.
To me it's also not about the money and scholarship, it's the lack of opportunity is the problem. We would have no Steph Curry for example.
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dc
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Post by dc on Nov 16, 2023 10:14:27 GMT -5
That's great! Having international players creates a higher quality of game and provides a more competitive atmosphere to develop US-born players. How so? Do you want to know how having better players on the pitch makes the quality of play better or do you want to know how practicing with/playing against better competition makes players better? |
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Post by bogan on Nov 16, 2023 10:24:34 GMT -5
Do you want to know how having better players on the pitch makes the quality of play better or do you want to know how practicing with/playing against better competition makes players better? Ok-i get it-you think foreign players are superior. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Nov 16, 2023 11:45:51 GMT -5
I think the problem is this -- yes, there are many very good international players.
But just because a player is international, it doesn't just make them better -- yet that is the philosophy of many coaches. As others have mentioned, it often comes down to this basic point.
domestic incoming freshman is 18
incoming international player is 21 to 22 years old....
But it's also a trickle down effect, MLS doesn't appreciate the domestic player and it's others responding in a similar matter.
Look if Caleb Wiley was from South America, the dude would be getting paid 2-3 million a year in the MLS.
But I've said this before, ECNL gets so much money, there are a few line items on their tax return for various reasons.
They should have an app, that is location based, so when a coach is in between 2 games on a field, it automatically knows the games that are going on, with field numbers and digital rosters for notes. If they want a printed packet, ECNL should have a single booklet for the entire showcase, and its as simple as grabbing a packet a checkin etc.
Hell your charging teams for the event already, add in another 50 bucks for printing, nobody will know.....
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Post by rpsoccer on Nov 16, 2023 13:49:28 GMT -5
I recently found Kyle Wilson in youtube, I think he does a good job explaining what is wrong with ECNL, MLS Next, and so on. Chatting with another parent, he told me he is paying 12 grand per season, just in traveling (hotel, meals, flights, gas, etc.). If your kid is not an starter or is playing 15 minutes per game, it is better to just save that money and place him in a lower division team, unless of course you have that extra money per year =]
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dc
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Post by dc on Nov 17, 2023 7:46:39 GMT -5
Do you want to know how having better players on the pitch makes the quality of play better or do you want to know how practicing with/playing against better competition makes players better? Ok-i get it-you think foreign players are superior. I think superior players are superior. Doesn’t matter where they were born. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Nov 17, 2023 8:32:45 GMT -5
I recently found Kyle Wilson in youtube, I think he does a good job explaining what is wrong with ECNL, MLS Next, and so on. Chatting with another parent, he told me he is paying 12 grand per season, just in traveling (hotel, meals, flights, gas, etc.). If your kid is not an starter or is playing 15 minutes per game, it is better to just save that money and place him in a lower division team, unless of course you have that extra money per year =] funny this guy mysteriously showed up on my Instagram feed one day. He gets a lot right for sure, but he is also selling a service in training and trying to get likes etc. I've heard him make comments such like, "if your not playing up 2 age groups, then you won't make it as a player" extreme statements like this would just make young parents go crazy. I've also heard him brag about the performance of his u9 team -- dude they are u9, 3/4 of the team will probably quit by u16...... but yes, he gets a lot of things correct as well. |
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Post by bogan on Nov 17, 2023 8:59:58 GMT -5
Ok-i get it-you think foreign players are superior. I think superior players are superior. Doesn’t matter where they were born. I guess I misread your first post then. However, I don’t see many superior players in American college soccer. Not a diss to anyone playing, but the current system doesn’t promote development. |
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Post by atlantagray on Nov 17, 2023 9:03:31 GMT -5
I think superior players are superior. Doesn’t matter where they were born. I guess I misread your first post then. However, I don’t see many superior players in American college soccer. Not a diss to anyone playing, but the current system doesn’t promote development. I agree that college is where (for most men), professional aspirations go to die. Many of the players from Europe had washed out from their clubs and going to college was the second choice. |
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Post by lajolla39 on Nov 17, 2023 9:44:27 GMT -5
I guess I misread your first post then. However, I don’t see many superior players in American college soccer. Not a diss to anyone playing, but the current system doesn’t promote development. I agree that college is where (for most men), professional aspirations go to die. Many of the players from Europe had washed out from their clubs and going to college was the second choice. it's funny how things are so different for boys/Men. For girls/women parents go bananas about playing in college. |
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