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Post by futbolislife17 on Aug 28, 2024 7:43:10 GMT -5
Got a couple things I have some questions and comments about:
1. Why is SCCL Cup the first tournament to qualify you for Nationals? This seems like it should be a cup that is played either in the middle of the season or possibly after the season has concluded.
2. How a DPL level team or above is able to sign up for the SCCL Cup although they do not play in the league. I'm noticing in some groups, outside of U12, that there are some ECRL or DPL level team in the accepted teams. For example, LSA has a DPLO (not sure what the O stands for) in the group of accepted teams but I'm sure they do not play in the league. Seems like they're taking an easier route to be able to claim they made it to Nationals.
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Post by allthingsoccer on Aug 28, 2024 8:07:34 GMT -5
Got a couple things I have some questions and comments about: 1. Why is SCCL Cup the first tournament to qualify you for Nationals? This seems like it should be a cup that is played either in the middle of the season or possibly after the season has concluded. 2. How a DPL level team or above is able to sign up for the SCCL Cup although they do not play in the league. I'm noticing in some groups, outside of U12, that there are some ECRL or DPL level team in the accepted teams. For example, LSA has a DPLO (not sure what the O stands for) in the group of accepted teams but I'm sure they do not play in the league. Seems like they're taking an easier route to be able to claim they made it to Nationals. DPLO is DPL Open. The LSA team was in SCCL last year (season) and did make it to Nationals. This new year they are in DPLO and not in the SCCL. |
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Post by flamengo100 on Aug 28, 2024 11:39:32 GMT -5
The SCCL cup used to be played at the end of the season around MLK Holiday in January. There was a year of bad snow/ice which pushed games out a week. At that time the winner of the SCCL cup only qualified to US club Regionals. And technically, any team can just apply and pay there way to go to a Regionals. The winner of the actual SCCL Fall Club division got the automatic qualification to Nationals.
In 2022, the SCCL Cup was moved to mid December right before the holidays. They changed the rule that year that the winner of the SCCL cup got the automatic bid to US Club Nationals. The tournament also didn't have many participating teams.
In 2023 they moved it to Labor Day. I don't know why and agree it's odd to have a Nationals qualifier in what is basically a preseason tournament for many teams. I think they did it to get more participation and/or to drive teams to play the tournament. Having a tournament mid January is not good for high school age kids as it's right when tryouts are ending/practices beginning for them. the 2022 final was on 12/18 right before Christmas so now you are dealing with vacations and/or out of state college showcases.
The SCCL cup is open to any US Club team. Historically , teams from the SCCL in boys/girls throughout the age groups have not been competitive at US Club Nationals. You have ECNL , ECNL R, NPL teams that qualify to Nationals by going through the Regional qualifiers so there are some really good teams. Maybe that is why the SCCL cup is an open tournament and not limited to just SCCL teams. Technically, you could have an ECNL team apply for the SCCL cup.
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Post by interestedspectator on Aug 28, 2024 12:50:59 GMT -5
Originally for the first two years qualification for nationals was through winning the league and the cup winner was given a free berth to regionals. There are no coaches who agree with having the labor day tournament as qualification for nationals.
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Post by playfromtheback on Aug 28, 2024 13:45:54 GMT -5
If they want to do it over a holiday weekend why not over President's day weekend end in February? It would still be a pre-season tournament but at least teams would have been together for 1 season.
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Post by newguy on Aug 28, 2024 15:11:45 GMT -5
Originally for the first two years qualification for nationals was through winning the league and the cup winner was given a free berth to regionals. There are no coaches who agree with having the labor day tournament as qualification for nationals. A Labor Day tournament that is qualifying for a tournament 11 months away with what is likely to be a different team. |
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SCCL Cup
Aug 28, 2024 19:46:56 GMT -5
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Post by Keeper on Aug 28, 2024 19:46:56 GMT -5
Money is the answer. SCCL cup originally was in May but no one came. They split it and moved Hs aged teams to January and then December while the “Juniors” U12-14 was in late April / early May. After a couple of years of low numbers and lack of venues they moved to Labor Day as that weekend became available with the disappearance of the old Publix Cup held by Ga Soccer. SCCL board (Big 4 Clubs, nth, Gsa, Ufa and ssa) felt this was better as it didn’t conflict with any of their tournaments and fields would be available. After last years “success” and high numbers this year this seems to be the spot for it.
Secondly, SCCL Cup winners get the spot at National Cup which is open to all UsClub teams so that’s SCCL, NPL and ECNL/RL teams. Seeding is only based from SCCL standings so again if you got the money they’ll let you sign up and compete. Outside of Ga there’s a lot of ECRL and NPL teams that dual schedule with those leagues and their local versions of SCCL so seeing those types of teams at Regionals and Nationals is pretty normal too. Ideally the top of SCCL should be equal to the mid/bottom of NPL and ECRL.
A DPLO team like Lsa is probably looking for competition as they’re better then SCCL but not able to play ECNL teams.
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darp
Jr. Academy
Posts: 48
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Post by darp on Aug 29, 2024 8:06:14 GMT -5
Got a couple things I have some questions and comments about: 1. Why is SCCL Cup the first tournament to qualify you for Nationals? This seems like it should be a cup that is played either in the middle of the season or possibly after the season has concluded. 2. How a DPL level team or above is able to sign up for the SCCL Cup although they do not play in the league. I'm noticing in some groups, outside of U12, that there are some ECRL or DPL level team in the accepted teams. For example, LSA has a DPLO (not sure what the O stands for) in the group of accepted teams but I'm sure they do not play in the league. Seems like they're taking an easier route to be able to claim they made it to Nationals. DPLO is DPL Open. The LSA team was in SCCL last year (season) and did make it to Nationals. This new year they are in DPLO and not in the SCCL. I still don't understand how the DPLO works vs the regular DPL. Any idea? |
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Post by oraclesfriend on Aug 29, 2024 9:14:27 GMT -5
DPLO is DPL Open. The LSA team was in SCCL last year (season) and did make it to Nationals. This new year they are in DPLO and not in the SCCL. I still don't understand how the DPLO works vs the regular DPL. Any idea? DPL Open is just an option for teams accepted by DPL to play in their local leagues and in DPL showcase events so that they can have exposure to college coaches and the clubs can be evaluated for possible acceptance into DPL as a whole. If there is an area with enough accepted DPL open teams that WANTS to form their own league run by DPL they can do that in addition to or instead of playing in their local leagues. In the southeast LSA, Atlanta Albion, Alpharetta Ambush, AFC Lightning, James Island and Carolina Velocity are in a league together playing each other twice for a 10 game season and playing in the DPL showcase in January in Tampa. |
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Post by newguy on Sept 1, 2024 16:14:51 GMT -5
You can tell it’s still preseason…Hey GSA, you guys are slipping. We all know you play ECNL players in SCCL tournaments and important games but whoever normally is responsible for bringing extra jerseys forgot them this weekend so your kids had to play in their own jerseys showing the ECNL patches.
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Post by weltzumerr on Sept 2, 2024 4:09:49 GMT -5
Originally for the first two years qualification for nationals was through winning the league and the cup winner was given a free berth to regionals. tu There are no coaches who agree with having the labor day tournament as qualification for nationals. piktid.com/ai-generative-face-fill/A Labor Day tournament that is qualifying for a tournament 11 months away with what is likely to be a different team. Thanks for the heads-up! |
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SCCL Cup
Sept 2, 2024 17:09:40 GMT -5
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Post by redydc on Sept 2, 2024 17:09:40 GMT -5
Our team finished with back-to-back first place finishes to find itself in the SCCL Club (Champions) division. We wanted to play in the SCCL Cup, but the club wouldn’t allow us. Our coach was told we had to enter a tournament because the club had no other teams in our age group to send.
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Post by newguy on Sept 2, 2024 19:28:22 GMT -5
Our team finished with back-to-back first place finishes to find itself in the SCCL Club (Champions) division. We wanted to play in the SCCL Cup, but the club wouldn’t allow us. Our coach was told we had to enter a tournament because the club had no other teams in our age group to send. Hmm..looks like U18 is the only skipped year. SCCL Cup |
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SCCL Cup
Sept 2, 2024 21:03:46 GMT -5
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Post by redydc on Sept 2, 2024 21:03:46 GMT -5
Our team finished with back-to-back first place finishes to find itself in the SCCL Club (Champions) division. We wanted to play in the SCCL Cup, but the club wouldn’t allow us. Our coach was told we had to enter a tournament because the club had no other teams in our age group to send. Hmm..looks like U18 is the only skipped year. SCCL CupSorry — my comment wasn’t clear. Our club mandated that we attend another tournament instead of the SCCL Cup, because that tournament director was expecting our club to provide at least one boys team for our age group. Our club didn’t give us the option to play in the SCCL Cup, even though it was the preference of the coach and parents. |
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Post by soccernoleuk on Sept 3, 2024 7:12:32 GMT -5
Our team finished with back-to-back first place finishes to find itself in the SCCL Club (Champions) division. We wanted to play in the SCCL Cup, but the club wouldn’t allow us. Our coach was told we had to enter a tournament because the club had no other teams in our age group to send. Hmm..looks like U18 is the only skipped year. SCCL CupThere really isn't a U18 in youth soccer. At that age the U18 & U19 ages are combined and typically just referred to as U19. This year that would be the 2006/2007 age group. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 3, 2024 12:22:31 GMT -5
You can tell it’s still preseason…Hey GSA, you guys are slipping. We all know you play ECNL players in SCCL tournaments and important games but whoever normally is responsible for bringing extra jerseys forgot them this weekend so your kids had to play in their own jerseys showing the ECNL patches. I wouldn't jump to conclusions on that. First of all there has been a ton of issues precuring jerseys this year from suppliers throughout many different clubs right now. Also if the club is not going with new kits its possible clubs demoted kids and they are now playing SCCL but they aren't going to buy a new jersey just because of the patch on it, and its pretty hard to get a patch off once its on a jersey. So yes maybe some ENCL kids played but also other possibly exists such as 1) Kits didn't change kid got demoted to SCCL team 2) New Kits are ordered but supplier hasn't delivered jerseys so teams had to play in old uniforms, possibly kids had to borrow ECNL jerseys or maybe as I said above returning players were demoted and had to play with old kit with ECNL patch on them. |
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Post by kickinit22 on Sept 4, 2024 12:07:01 GMT -5
You can tell it’s still preseason…Hey GSA, you guys are slipping. We all know you play ECNL players in SCCL tournaments and important games but whoever normally is responsible for bringing extra jerseys forgot them this weekend so your kids had to play in their own jerseys showing the ECNL patches. Also duplicate jersey numbers on the field at the same time which is against tournament rules. Maybe uniform issues, maybe ironically a name not too common these days just happen to be both their SCCL roster and RL roster, who knows but doesn't sound like its the first time for GSA. |
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 4, 2024 15:45:41 GMT -5
You can tell it’s still preseason…Hey GSA, you guys are slipping. We all know you play ECNL players in SCCL tournaments and important games but whoever normally is responsible for bringing extra jerseys forgot them this weekend so your kids had to play in their own jerseys showing the ECNL patches. Also duplicate jersey numbers on the field at the same time which is against tournament rules. Maybe uniform issues, maybe ironically a name not too common these days just happen to be both their SCCL roster and RL roster, who knows but doesn't sound like its the first time for GSA. Please give me a link to tournament rules that state the same jersey number can't be on the field at the same time. I have never seen a single Tournament rule or most league rules that have this rule, and I referee many leagues and many tournaments every year. I think you are talking out of your butt here. The only way I could see that being an issue is MLS Next, NPL, or ECNL where the referee has to keep up with subs and making sure the same sub doesn't go back on in the same half. Even with that though it is easy to keep track of same numbers by knowing names and faces of players in that type of situation just like I would ask for their name if I gave a Yellow or Red to one of them. I know it is good practice not to have the same jersey number on the field at the same time or even on the same team, but I run into this issue as a referee almost every weekend, and it isn't the big deal or rule issue you think it is. |
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Post by kickinit22 on Sept 4, 2024 21:21:01 GMT -5
Also duplicate jersey numbers on the field at the same time which is against tournament rules. Maybe uniform issues, maybe ironically a name not too common these days just happen to be both their SCCL roster and RL roster, who knows but doesn't sound like its the first time for GSA. Please give me a link to tournament rules that state the same jersey number can't be on the field at the same time. I have never seen a single Tournament rule or most league rules that have this rule, and I referee many leagues and many tournaments every year. I think you are talking out of your butt here. The only way I could see that being an issue is MLS Next, NPL, or ECNL where the referee has to keep up with subs and making sure the same sub doesn't go back on in the same half. Even with that though it is easily to keep track of same numbers by knowing names and faces of players in that type of situation just like I would ask for their name if I gave a Yellow or Red to one of them. I know it is good practice not to have the same jersey number on the field at the same time or even on the same team, but I run into this issue as a referee almost every weekend, and it isn't the big deal you or rule issue you think it is. Each field player shall wear a numbered jersey. The number shall be affixed to the back of the jersey and shall be clearly visible. Each player must wear a different number. Numbered jerseys for goalkeepers are optional in SCCL Cup competition. soccer.sincsports.com/photos/tid/SCCLCUP3/user/2024_SCCL_Cup_Rules.pdf?v=000000082324 |
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rotgg
Jr. Academy
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Post by rotgg on Sept 5, 2024 7:41:06 GMT -5
Please give me a link to tournament rules that state the same jersey number can't be on the field at the same time. I have never seen a single Tournament rule or most league rules that have this rule, and I referee many leagues and many tournaments every year. I think you are talking out of your butt here. The only way I could see that being an issue is MLS Next, NPL, or ECNL where the referee has to keep up with subs and making sure the same sub doesn't go back on in the same half. Even with that though it is easily to keep track of same numbers by knowing names and faces of players in that type of situation just like I would ask for their name if I gave a Yellow or Red to one of them. I know it is good practice not to have the same jersey number on the field at the same time or even on the same team, but I run into this issue as a referee almost every weekend, and it isn't the big deal you or rule issue you think it is. Each field player shall wear a numbered jersey. The number shall be affixed to the back of the jersey and shall be clearly visible. Each player must wear a different number. Numbered jerseys for goalkeepers are optional in SCCL Cup competition. soccer.sincsports.com/photos/tid/SCCLCUP3/user/2024_SCCL_Cup_Rules.pdf?v=000000082324He was this many years old when he read the rules  Look who is talking out there butt. |
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Post by atlnoleg on Sept 5, 2024 7:47:41 GMT -5
Whether or not this is done to purposely stack a lower level team, I really don't like hearing about it from parents. It seeps down to the players who use it as an excuse when they lose. I've heard it from my own ECNL-R players. My response is always the same. "So?" If you're a competitor, you should take it as a challenge. Beating them will just be that much sweeter. I don't want them seeing themselves as lesser players because of a "patch".
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SCCL Cup
Sept 5, 2024 9:14:55 GMT -5
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Post by terimakasih12 on Sept 5, 2024 9:14:55 GMT -5
Whether or not this is done to purposely stack a lower level team, I really don't like hearing about it from parents. It seeps down to the players who use it as an excuse when they lose. I've heard it from my own ECNL-R players. My response is always the same. "So?" If you're a competitor, you should take it as a challenge. Beating them will just be that much sweeter. I don't want them seeing themselves as lesser players because of a "patch". Agree 100%. For those with older kids, is this actually something that happens frequently or is it hearsay? I’ve only seen younger kids from a top team play up at a lower level. |
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Post by rpsoccer on Sept 5, 2024 9:24:23 GMT -5
Whether or not this is done to purposely stack a lower level team, I really don't like hearing about it from parents. It seeps down to the players who use it as an excuse when they lose. I've heard it from my own ECNL-R players. My response is always the same. "So?" If you're a competitor, you should take it as a challenge. Beating them will just be that much sweeter. I don't want them seeing themselves as lesser players because of a "patch". Agree 100%. For those with older kids, is this actually something that happens frequently or is it hearsay? I’ve only seen younger kids from a top team play up at a lower level. It happens at any age group. In my kid's age group (u16) there were 2 or 3 teams that are NPL, E64 or something like that. At the end, the champion is a SCCL-C team, this team has been really strong for the last year, it went undefeated at SCCL-C league and went to nationals last year too. |
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Post by gtreferee on Sept 5, 2024 9:29:23 GMT -5
Genuine question... Why does it matter if players from a combo of leagues are playing together on a team in a meaningless tournament? At the end of the day it is preseason, the roster would not be approved if it was illegal, and kids are moving teams. I am sorry your child doesn't get the fairest chance to win a trophy, but if we really cared about youth development in the country we would devalue winning, especially at younger ages.
Also totally agree with the person who said good, it is a challenge to play higher level players, that makes you better.
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Post by atlnoleg on Sept 5, 2024 9:44:15 GMT -5
I'm going to admittedly generalize here, but in MY experience/observation, each level down often brings with it a corresponding drop in commitment. One of my boys was ECRL and is now NPL. It was odd for players to miss training or games, even scrimmages/friendlies at ECRL, but his NPL team constantly has players missing practices. So sometimes teams have to have guest players for tournaments, and they can come in the form of higher level or lower level teams.
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Post by slickdaddy96 on Sept 5, 2024 9:53:00 GMT -5
He was this many years old when he read the rules Look who is talking out there butt. No I have never refereed the SCCL cup tournament because it doesn't pay well enough and I usually have something better to do on Labor Day weekend than referee. Also even given those rules there are many rules in Tournament Rule documents that are never followed and are still in there only because the tournament director is to lazy to revamp the PDF file. If I had a $1 for every time an email from the assignor or tournament director went out prior to a league start or tournament weekend with new rules or conflicting information than the "old rule pdf" I would be a very rich man. I have never seen the same number rule enforced in any tournament I have ever refereed in, and some were bigger tournaments than SCCL cup has become. It is always to the discretion of the referee on stuff like that, and I have never and I mean never seen a referee not allow a kid to play because (or even put duct tape on their jersey to make it different) two kids had the same number on their jersey. Complaining about it is just stupid. |
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Post by fanatic21 on Sept 6, 2024 21:21:18 GMT -5
Is anyone honestly really concerned about duplicate jersey numbers in youth soccer? Just let the kids play.
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Post by randomparent on Sept 6, 2024 21:45:46 GMT -5
Genuine question... Why does it matter if players from a combo of leagues are playing together on a team in a meaningless tournament? At the end of the day it is preseason, the roster would not be approved if it was illegal, and kids are moving teams. I am sorry your child doesn't get the fairest chance to win a trophy, but if we really cared about youth development in the country we would devalue winning, especially at younger ages. Also totally agree with the person who said good, it is a challenge to play higher level players, that makes you better. Because some people believe that Nationals matters. The same way people think it matters if their kid plays ECNL. The same way other people think it matters to pursue youth development over winning, as if the choice is binary. None of it matters, it is kids playing a game and hopefully making some friends along the way. |
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Post by kickinit22 on Sept 7, 2024 14:12:21 GMT -5
Because some people believe that Nationals matters. The same way people think it matters if their kid plays ECNL. The same way other people think it matters to pursue youth development over winning, as if the choice is binary. None of it matters, it is kids playing a game and hopefully making some friends along the way. As adults we know that in the end it doesn't matter. I know my kids are not top team material and would be lucky if they get an opportunity to continue to play in college, if they wish. Nationals and playing on the top team may not matter to you and in the big scheme of life doesn't matter at all, but seeing the excitement and feeling of accomplishment on a child's face when making a higher team or winning a tournament or getting the opportunity to go to Nationals makes the ride more enjoyable. It's important to them and I want to support them in their goals when I can. Understanding there is alway disappointment along the way, which is part of the important life lessons of sports. Not specific to this tournament or the duplicate jersey situation as there is no proof of anything nefarious happening, there are different team levels for a reason - so they can play on somewhat level playing ground. It's disheartening when teams bring in obviously higher level players and purposely play down levels in tournaments to win. It's not about the extra challenge during the game, it's the message that kids are seeing that it pays to not follow the rules. Guess that goes along with my comment above about life lessons, but is this what we want to be teaching them? As for the comments about parents perpetuating these ideas to get the kids to feel better I don't believe this is always true. Often times my kids come off the field saying these things first. They are observant. They recognize players, overhear comments, see ECNL patches (yes they could have been demoted), etc. and even coaches make comments. Just because we are talking SCCL level and not ECNL doesn't make it any less important to the kids. |
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Post by randomparent on Sept 7, 2024 21:40:50 GMT -5
Because some people believe that Nationals matters. The same way people think it matters if their kid plays ECNL. The same way other people think it matters to pursue youth development over winning, as if the choice is binary. None of it matters, it is kids playing a game and hopefully making some friends along the way. As adults we know that in the end it doesn't matter. I know my kids are not top team material and would be lucky if they get an opportunity to continue to play in college, if they wish. Nationals and playing on the top team may not matter to you and in the big scheme of life doesn't matter at all, but seeing the excitement and feeling of accomplishment on a child's face when making a higher team or winning a tournament or getting the opportunity to go to Nationals makes the ride more enjoyable. It's important to them and I want to support them in their goals when I can. Understanding there is alway disappointment along the way, which is part of the important life lessons of sports. Not specific to this tournament or the duplicate jersey situation as there is no proof of anything nefarious happening, there are different team levels for a reason - so they can play on somewhat level playing ground. It's disheartening when teams bring in obviously higher level players and purposely play down levels in tournaments to win. It's not about the extra challenge during the game, it's the message that kids are seeing that it pays to not follow the rules. Guess that goes along with my comment above about life lessons, but is this what we want to be teaching them? As for the comments about parents perpetuating these ideas to get the kids to feel better I don't believe this is always true. Often times my kids come off the field saying these things first. They are observant. They recognize players, overhear comments, see ECNL patches (yes they could have been demoted), etc. and even coaches make comments. Just because we are talking SCCL level and not ECNL doesn't make it any less important to the kids. Agreed. SCCL level is no less important than ECNL level. I have kids playing at both level. They are all just kids playing soccer. I enjoy watching both teams play. All the games are equally important or unimportant, however you want to phrase it. |
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