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Post by bogan on Oct 22, 2024 9:16:11 GMT -5
From Derek Broadley @charleston Soccer Club:
“Foster the best playing environments”
“Pay to play” do parents get value for money?
How do parents (customers) justify/evaluate: the money they spend on youth soccer and what are the justifications for them continuing to participate?
Is it that they genuinely feel that their money is well spent because their children are having a great time? Is it an investment into securing some sort of scholarship or educational benefit further down the line or is it, they have to keep up with the “Jones’s”
Whenever any parent actually acts like a discontented customer; the first thing they bring up is the cost of participating in the sport but sadly, the costs are NOT dictated by clubs as the costs of doing the “youth soccer business” are set by so many other influencers who ultimately are allowed to operate by US Soccer.
The costs of leagues, the costs of tournaments, the stay to play costs, the uniform demands, the costs of ID camps/events, the costs of videoing/highlights of games are all laid at the parents door and in many states, the coaches don’t even need a license or any form of training🤷♂️ why is that acceptable and why don’t parents demand change?
Is their a need to review what really is actually needed to meet players needs at a more affordable level and would this maintain or grow the game?
Would a review reveal the need to introduce merit driven systems that could be linked to the costs of a pay to play system?
Is the fact that no one wants to do a review because they are frightened of what they may find? Does change have to be bad?
The fact that parents currently spend a sum of $s on youth soccer demonstrates that there is a willingness to continue to spend but could there be a way to give them better value for that spend?
Education is key, scheduling games at regular times would help, reducing travel, set number of games per season, set practice ratios to games, locally accessible coaching education are just some considerations that should and could be looked into.
Is there a danger that this pay to play bubble is going to burst because parents pockets get squeezed too tight?
The hope must be that at some point, US Soccer takes some bold steps to look into the current systems and structures and to reach out to parents at all levels of the game to see what value for money they get?
Sadly, too many families get to the end of their youth soccer careers and realize two things: they have overpaid for an under served experience and they cannot say anything as it would mean that they would have to accept they got ripped off and/or that their most prized possession (child) never got to where the intended (sold).
Obviously, there are many players who do view their youth soccer careers as being very positive but…. Far to many don’t.
Thoughts/comments?”
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Post by Futsal Gawdess on Oct 22, 2024 10:11:53 GMT -5
The "pay to play" system in youth soccer continues to spark intense debate, with much of the conversation focusing on whether parents are truly getting value for their investment. In reality, many parents unintentionally enable the current system. We hesitate to demand change because we fear the potential consequences: our children being left out, socially or competitively, if they aren't part of the “elite” teams. There’s also the perception that participating in these leagues adds a layer of prestige—allowing parents to brag that their child is “balling” at a high level, while privately grappling with the financial burden and loss of family time due to constant travel and packed schedules.
At a minimum, it’s clear that youth soccer needs a thorough review and restructuring, especially when it comes to organizing teams more effectively. One solution is to group like-minded players together in local leagues, reducing unnecessary travel and creating a model that still fosters competitive play, but without the extensive costs associated with distant tournaments and constant travel. Essentially, a new form of “Stay to Play” that prioritizes regional competition, which would not only be more affordable but also healthier for the overall development of players and their families.
Another important area to address is the growing trend of clubs hiring a “recruitment coach” or having someone dedicated solely to college recruitment. While this sounds like a great benefit, the question is whether families are truly getting additional assistance toward securing college opportunities or if it's more of a marketing ploy to attract players. If clubs are going to offer this service, it needs to deliver tangible results: hands-on help navigating the college recruitment process, connections with college coaches, and personalized guidance for each player. Otherwise, it’s just another way to justify high fees without providing real value.
Additionally, introducing a merit-based fee structure would incentivize players to work harder while addressing some of the financial inequality within the sport. For instance, the top teams at every club could have minimal or no fees, ensuring that the best players are fielded based on merit rather than financial capability. This would also force clubs to remove political favoritism and truly prioritize talent. For families who choose not to pay the high fees, there would be a clear incentive: work hard, elevate to the top tier, and reduce or eliminate costs.
Equally important is ensuring that coaching education and licensing become mandatory across the board. Coaches should be equipped not only with knowledge of the game but also with recruitment training and access to events that allow them to engage with current or former college coaches. By doing this, we arm coaches with the tools to help their players navigate the complex world of college recruitment and development, providing real value for the money parents are spending.
Ultimately, parents should not feel stuck in a system where they’re overpaying for an underserved experience. By pushing for these reforms—localizing play, merit-based fees, and better coaching education—we can create a more sustainable, affordable, and developmentally sound model for youth soccer. The question isn’t whether change is necessary, but how long parents are willing to wait before demanding a system that truly serves their children...
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Post by soccerlegacy on Oct 22, 2024 12:51:16 GMT -5
The article seems just a little too pessimistic and one-sided, IMHO. I think the decision to every family is different, and there is no monolithic group of parents that all think the same. I for one, pay (and yes what I consider absurd fees) because I see the value in playing high-level, competitive sports. Mind you, this isn't just a soccer problem, all sports seem to have this issue. I do it, though, because my kids fit the mold of someone that strives for being as good as the can be and want to surround themselves with like-minded players. I've actually had them tell me, if they had to play rec, they would probably drop soccer altogether. That it would be too boring for them and would find no enjoyment in it. Unfortunately, that comes at a cost. If they were in it for just fun and occasional exercise, I'd be find with it also, and my wallet would be very appreciative as well. LOL All of this is not to say I'm okay with the costs of "pay to play" and I do think there should be review done to curb the costs. Fustal Gawdess makes some very good observations and recommendations I think could help, but until those changes happen (which realistically, not any time soon) I will hold my nose, and continue to pay what is asked... because my kids love it and I see many values beyond soccer itself that may be hard to put a price tag on.
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Post by playfromtheback on Oct 22, 2024 13:15:20 GMT -5
I look at the cost compared to other activates. When I see what my friends who have kids in Gymnastics, Cheerleading and Dance i won't complain at all. Even the cost of swimming is comparable/higher depending on the club and level (of both sports).
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Post by bogan on Oct 22, 2024 13:28:53 GMT -5
I look at the cost compared to other activates. When I see what my friends who have kids in Gymnastics, Cheerleading and Dance i won't complain at all. Even the cost of swimming is comparable/higher depending on the club and level (of both sports). I suppose that’s one way to justify it….and if you enjoy it…why not? As long as parents have realistic expectations. |
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Post by playfromtheback on Oct 22, 2024 13:35:13 GMT -5
I look at the cost compared to other activates. When I see what my friends who have kids in Gymnastics, Cheerleading and Dance i won't complain at all. Even the cost of swimming is comparable/higher depending on the club and level (of both sports). I suppose that’s one way to justify it….and if you enjoy it…why not? As long as parents have realistic expectations. Yes we have zero expectations that soccer will lead anywhere. He loves it, he would train 7 days a week if he could. Soccer has made him a better kid (he was already a good kid but more of a leader), helped with his fitness, helped him prioritize time, and helped him grow emotionally. It has also helped in keeping him away from kids who I see are trouble. All in all fully worth it compared to other things. |
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Post by atlantagray on Oct 22, 2024 13:59:17 GMT -5
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Post by mamadona on Oct 22, 2024 14:04:41 GMT -5
Yeah it's not like it's a choice between rec or aiming for a pro career. My daughter would probably quit rather than play rec and she's not a high level player. She just likes to play on a decent level, because it's fun and keeps her active!
Don't get me started on cheerleading... that's almost cult like and very expensive, lots of extras & travel even for lower levels (older daughter did it but we escaped the cult with our sanity almost intact)
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Post by atlantagray on Oct 22, 2024 14:18:36 GMT -5
Yeah it's not like it's a choice between rec or aiming for a pro career. My daughter would probably quit rather than play rec and she's not a high level player. She just likes to play on a decent level, because it's fun and keeps her active! Don't get me started on cheerleading... that's almost cult like and very expensive, lots of extras & travel even for lower levels (older daughter did it but we escaped the cult with our sanity almost intact) The stories I've heard about competitive dance terrify me |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 22, 2024 15:18:42 GMT -5
at the end of the day -- all youth sports is a business -- baseball, softball, soccer, gymnastics, dance, competitive cheer, golf, tennis etc.
football has 7s, but kids can still climb up the ranks through high school so a little bit more merit based, but still their are endless camps. I'm assuming many of the top kids don't pay to attend though.
basketball is similar top kids aren't paying money for aau ball or high school, many are floating around from private school to private school getting scholarships etc. But if your not on a sponsored team, costs are huge.
hence why the local soccer club was great -- was a business, but still an attempt to offer the community a service and offered reasonable rates.
Mega clubs have ruined the game, US Club soccer has divided the game, state organizations let it get away and lost complete control, US federation lost control, MLS academies are great because its free to play, but they recruit kids at 11 years of age.
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Post by rifle on Oct 22, 2024 18:50:34 GMT -5
Parents push their kids into club soccer due to their own ego. 2/3 of kids playing club soccer should be playing rec soccer and more of them would probably still be playing after age 14 if they did.
If every city/club had a huge rec program and only a handful of kids made a “select” team it would be better than the fractured mess that we have. Just my opinion.
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Post by bogan on Oct 22, 2024 20:07:27 GMT -5
Parents push their kids into club soccer due to their own ego. 2/3 of kids playing club soccer should be playing rec soccer and more of them would probably still be playing after age 14 if they did. If every city/club had a huge rec program and only a handful of kids made a “select” team it would be better than the fractured mess that we have. Just my opinion. Yeah, but my kid is better than yours…he made the ultra Select mega all star team…🙄 |
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Post by rifle on Oct 22, 2024 20:11:40 GMT -5
Yeah, but my kid is better than yours…he made the ultra Select mega all star team…🙄 how much more did they charge for that one? |
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Post by bogan on Oct 23, 2024 4:44:04 GMT -5
Yeah, but my kid is better than yours…he made the ultra Select mega all star team…🙄 how much more did they charge for that one? Well, I had to sell the boat, take a second mortgage and take on a part time job to pay for it…but can you really put a price tag on greatness man?!🤷🏻♂️🤣 |
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Post by soccerdad99 on Oct 23, 2024 7:21:36 GMT -5
Why are there so many people on here concerned with how other people spend their money?? lol
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rotgg
Jr. Academy
Posts: 86
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Post by rotgg on Oct 23, 2024 7:27:12 GMT -5
Why are there so many people on here concerned with how other people spend their money?? lol Because they didnt make the ultra Select mega all star team ROFL |
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Post by randomparent on Oct 23, 2024 11:20:45 GMT -5
From Derek Broadley @charleston Soccer Club: “Foster the best playing environments” “Pay to play” do parents get value for money? How do parents (customers) justify/evaluate: the money they spend on youth soccer and what are the justifications for them continuing to participate? Is it that they genuinely feel that their money is well spent because their children are having a great time? Is it an investment into securing some sort of scholarship or educational benefit further down the line or is it, they have to keep up with the “Jones’s” Whenever any parent actually acts like a discontented customer; the first thing they bring up is the cost of participating in the sport but sadly, the costs are NOT dictated by clubs as the costs of doing the “youth soccer business” are set by so many other influencers who ultimately are allowed to operate by US Soccer. The costs of leagues, the costs of tournaments, the stay to play costs, the uniform demands, the costs of ID camps/events, the costs of videoing/highlights of games are all laid at the parents door and in many states, the coaches don’t even need a license or any form of training🤷♂️ why is that acceptable and why don’t parents demand change? Is their a need to review what really is actually needed to meet players needs at a more affordable level and would this maintain or grow the game? Would a review reveal the need to introduce merit driven systems that could be linked to the costs of a pay to play system? Is the fact that no one wants to do a review because they are frightened of what they may find? Does change have to be bad? The fact that parents currently spend a sum of $s on youth soccer demonstrates that there is a willingness to continue to spend but could there be a way to give them better value for that spend? Education is key, scheduling games at regular times would help, reducing travel, set number of games per season, set practice ratios to games, locally accessible coaching education are just some considerations that should and could be looked into. Is there a danger that this pay to play bubble is going to burst because parents pockets get squeezed too tight? The hope must be that at some point, US Soccer takes some bold steps to look into the current systems and structures and to reach out to parents at all levels of the game to see what value for money they get? Sadly, too many families get to the end of their youth soccer careers and realize two things: they have overpaid for an under served experience and they cannot say anything as it would mean that they would have to accept they got ripped off and/or that their most prized possession (child) never got to where the intended (sold). Obviously, there are many players who do view their youth soccer careers as being very positive but…. Far to many don’t. Thoughts/comments?” Having multiple kids play over time I would say generally we have gotten value. There are some exceptions/seasons with bad coaches, lack of good field space, etc. which are issues that existed since I played. There are new items being added that do bother me that include - mandatory kits every uniform cycle with unneeded stuff - more teams now pressure kids to head to Europe, South America, Caribbean for summer trips - the nationals tournaments, introducing more summer travel across the country To me it is an additional investment of money but more importantly time. I do not know about many of you, but post tryouts in the spring I am ready for a break from soccer. |
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gob31
Jr. Academy
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Post by gob31 on Oct 23, 2024 12:31:42 GMT -5
I suppose that’s one way to justify it….and if you enjoy it…why not? As long as parents have realistic expectations. Yes we have zero expectations that soccer will lead anywhere. He loves it, he would train 7 days a week if he could. Soccer has made him a better kid (he was already a good kid but more of a leader), helped with his fitness, helped him prioritize time, and helped him grow emotionally. It has also helped in keeping him away from kids who I see are trouble. All in all fully worth it compared to other things. It feels like this is becoming more and more the exception rather than how most parents approach youth soccer (really youth sports in general). Parents with kids on a U11 3rd team talk about college scholarships and sign their kids up for every training under the sun, on top of their speed and agility private sessions. And as soon as 1 kid signs up, other parents feel pressured to keep their kid from falling behind, creating a vicious cycle. It would be amazing if every kid that wants to play in college gets the chance, but so many parents push the idea from such an early age that it becomes their sole focus, and they end up going to some small school in the middle of nowhere with terrible academics because they've been told their entire life that playing in college is the goal. Then they either suffer at that school or more likely, give up soccer altogether and transfer. Ultimately, youth soccer is a game for kids and that should always be the focus. Unfortunately, the adults (parents, clubs looking to squeeze every dollar out that they can, recruiting services, etc.) push that focus farther and farther away with each passing season. |
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Post by rifle on Oct 23, 2024 15:49:21 GMT -5
Why are there so many people on here concerned with how other people spend their money?? lol I don’t care but I can still call it madness (with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight). But I still love soccer and easily consume six games per week.. but only two while carrying a whistle. |
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Post by bolo on Oct 24, 2024 10:01:58 GMT -5
Yes we have zero expectations that soccer will lead anywhere. He loves it, he would train 7 days a week if he could. Soccer has made him a better kid (he was already a good kid but more of a leader), helped with his fitness, helped him prioritize time, and helped him grow emotionally. It has also helped in keeping him away from kids who I see are trouble. All in all fully worth it compared to other things. It feels like this is becoming more and more the exception rather than how most parents approach youth soccer (really youth sports in general). Parents with kids on a U11 3rd team talk about college scholarships and sign their kids up for every training under the sun, on top of their speed and agility private sessions. And as soon as 1 kid signs up, other parents feel pressured to keep their kid from falling behind, creating a vicious cycle. It would be amazing if every kid that wants to play in college gets the chance, but so many parents push the idea from such an early age that it becomes their sole focus, and they end up going to some small school in the middle of nowhere with terrible academics because they've been told their entire life that playing in college is the goal. Then they either suffer at that school or more likely, give up soccer altogether and transfer. Ultimately, youth soccer is a game for kids and that should always be the focus. Unfortunately, the adults (parents, clubs looking to squeeze every dollar out that they can, recruiting services, etc.) push that focus farther and farther away with each passing season. One of the best posts I've seen on this board. Agree 100%. |
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Post by bolo on Oct 24, 2024 10:08:03 GMT -5
From Derek Broadley @charleston Soccer Club: “Foster the best playing environments” “Pay to play” do parents get value for money? How do parents (customers) justify/evaluate: the money they spend on youth soccer and what are the justifications for them continuing to participate? Is it that they genuinely feel that their money is well spent because their children are having a great time? Is it an investment into securing some sort of scholarship or educational benefit further down the line or is it, they have to keep up with the “Jones’s” Whenever any parent actually acts like a discontented customer; the first thing they bring up is the cost of participating in the sport but sadly, the costs are NOT dictated by clubs as the costs of doing the “youth soccer business” are set by so many other influencers who ultimately are allowed to operate by US Soccer. The costs of leagues, the costs of tournaments, the stay to play costs, the uniform demands, the costs of ID camps/events, the costs of videoing/highlights of games are all laid at the parents door and in many states, the coaches don’t even need a license or any form of training🤷♂️ why is that acceptable and why don’t parents demand change? Is their a need to review what really is actually needed to meet players needs at a more affordable level and would this maintain or grow the game? Would a review reveal the need to introduce merit driven systems that could be linked to the costs of a pay to play system? Is the fact that no one wants to do a review because they are frightened of what they may find? Does change have to be bad? The fact that parents currently spend a sum of $s on youth soccer demonstrates that there is a willingness to continue to spend but could there be a way to give them better value for that spend? Education is key, scheduling games at regular times would help, reducing travel, set number of games per season, set practice ratios to games, locally accessible coaching education are just some considerations that should and could be looked into. Is there a danger that this pay to play bubble is going to burst because parents pockets get squeezed too tight? The hope must be that at some point, US Soccer takes some bold steps to look into the current systems and structures and to reach out to parents at all levels of the game to see what value for money they get? Sadly, too many families get to the end of their youth soccer careers and realize two things: they have overpaid for an under served experience and they cannot say anything as it would mean that they would have to accept they got ripped off and/or that their most prized possession (child) never got to where the intended (sold). Obviously, there are many players who do view their youth soccer careers as being very positive but…. Far to many don’t. Thoughts/comments?” Having multiple kids play over time I would say generally we have gotten value. There are some exceptions/seasons with bad coaches, lack of good field space, etc. which are issues that existed since I played. There are new items being added that do bother me that include - mandatory kits every uniform cycle with unneeded stuff - more teams now pressure kids to head to Europe, South America, Caribbean for summer trips - the nationals tournaments, introducing more summer travel across the country To me it is an additional investment of money but more importantly time. I do not know about many of you, but post tryouts in the spring I am ready for a break from soccer. I agree. Especially the part about summer travel, and summer soccer in general. When our kids were younger, even playing at one of the biggest clubs in the area, one thing I really liked was summer was largely soccer-free if you wanted it to be. You could do a camp or private training or TOCA if you wanted to, but there were no tournaments or organized leagues in June & July. Meanwhile, my friends with kids playing travel baseball were dying with how much it consumed their summers. But a few years into our club experience, that all started to change. First it was Super Y, but if you missed games, that didn't really matter that much. But then SCCL created a new summer league, and if you didn't sign up for that, and go to most of the practices & games, were you really committed to the team in the fall & spring? Then SCCL & ERNL-R got in on the Nationals/Regionals act as far as summer tournaments go, so practice continues after tryouts, right up to those tournaments in June or July, and other summer trips, camps, etc. better take a back seat, especially if you plan to play on the team again next fall! All I kept thinking through all of this was what happened to my relaxing soccer-less summers?! |
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Post by terimakasih12 on Oct 24, 2024 12:25:02 GMT -5
Having multiple kids play over time I would say generally we have gotten value. There are some exceptions/seasons with bad coaches, lack of good field space, etc. which are issues that existed since I played. There are new items being added that do bother me that include - mandatory kits every uniform cycle with unneeded stuff - more teams now pressure kids to head to Europe, South America, Caribbean for summer trips - the nationals tournaments, introducing more summer travel across the country To me it is an additional investment of money but more importantly time. I do not know about many of you, but post tryouts in the spring I am ready for a break from soccer. I agree. Especially the part about summer travel, and summer soccer in general. When our kids were younger, even playing at one of the biggest clubs in the area, one thing I really liked was summer was largely soccer-free if you wanted it to be. You could do a camp or private training or TOCA if you wanted to, but there were no tournaments or organized leagues in June & July. Meanwhile, my friends with kids playing travel baseball were dying with how much it consumed their summers. But a few years into our club experience, that all started to change. First it was Super Y, but if you missed games, that didn't really matter that much. But then SCCL created a new summer league, and if you didn't sign up for that, and go to most of the practices & games, were you really committed to the team in the fall & spring? Then SCCL & ERNL-R got in on the Nationals/Regionals act as far as summer tournaments go, so practice continues after tryouts, right up to those tournaments in June or July, and other summer trips, camps, etc. better take a back seat, especially if you plan to play on the team again next fall! All I kept thinking through all of this was what happened to my relaxing soccer-less summers?! Glad to know relaxing summers will become a thing of the past soon for those of us with younger kids! Besides the constant emails about summer camps, I’m seeing frequent emails from one of my kid’s clubs about playing futsal during winter break. The consistency makes me think coaches may reward the players who sign up as they are “more committed.” Sure hope I am wrong. Do folks take breaks during December anymore?! |
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Post by playfromtheback on Oct 24, 2024 13:46:57 GMT -5
For the offseason, we do a little soccer but try to stay away from it to take a break. My son is a keeper, and he will typically do a session every other week with a private coach. Though because of the holidays and everything going on between fall and spring; and travel in the summer we typically miss 1-2 per break period. He also does other actives outside of soccer to stay fit. In the summer it is swim team in the winter it varies. I know some people who really like basketball because of the footwork.
I do like futsal but not for my son. He used to train futsal one day a week and I saw him and other keepers get some bad habits for outdoor. They became to reliant on foot saves and also wouldn't always go to ground (I understand not wanting to go down on the cement or hard floor).
I also like a break for sanity as I feel like from 8-1 to thanksgiving and 2-1 to Memorial Day we have to check whatever app his team is using before we make any plans.
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gob31
Jr. Academy
Posts: 24
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Post by gob31 on Oct 24, 2024 15:46:02 GMT -5
I agree. Especially the part about summer travel, and summer soccer in general. When our kids were younger, even playing at one of the biggest clubs in the area, one thing I really liked was summer was largely soccer-free if you wanted it to be. You could do a camp or private training or TOCA if you wanted to, but there were no tournaments or organized leagues in June & July. Meanwhile, my friends with kids playing travel baseball were dying with how much it consumed their summers. But a few years into our club experience, that all started to change. First it was Super Y, but if you missed games, that didn't really matter that much. But then SCCL created a new summer league, and if you didn't sign up for that, and go to most of the practices & games, were you really committed to the team in the fall & spring? Then SCCL & ERNL-R got in on the Nationals/Regionals act as far as summer tournaments go, so practice continues after tryouts, right up to those tournaments in June or July, and other summer trips, camps, etc. better take a back seat, especially if you plan to play on the team again next fall! All I kept thinking through all of this was what happened to my relaxing soccer-less summers?! Glad to know relaxing summers will become a thing of the past soon for those of us with younger kids! Besides the constant emails about summer camps, I’m seeing frequent emails from one of my kid’s clubs about playing futsal during winter break. The consistency makes me think coaches may reward the players who sign up as they are “more committed.” Sure hope I am wrong. Do folks take breaks during December anymore?! I can’t speak for all coaches, but winter futsal plays zero role for me in determining who committed or not. I have to participate bc I’m coaching, but my own kid plays rec basketball in the winter and will go to futsal if he feels like it. I’ll never force him or even push it bc he needs a break and to play a sport with no pressure that’s just fun (sports just for fun, what a concept). There are absolutely parents who make their kids go bc they want to show how committed they are, but it doesn’t move the needle for me in any way. I’d much rather my entire team do something else in the winter between seasons. |
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