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Post by el matador on Feb 22, 2015 9:23:31 GMT -5
The fix is in at the Icebreaker Tournament. All games were moved from Tramore Park (located in a flood zone) to Mud Creek to ensure play. For those not familiar with Mud Creek, the fields are generally awful. This was actually good news for those of us participating because we figured "just how much worse can the fields get with a little rain?" Surely we'll play on Sunday unless they receive a monsoon. Think again.
According to the National Weather Service, the fields received a paltry 0.27 inches of rain in the past 24 hours. Some of that was late yesterday afternoon as a few raindrops fell on the field. Surely 0.27 inches won't be enough to cancel this tournament, right? Wrong.
Money wins out. By cancelling on Sunday despite good conditions at the field (I was so angry I drove out there to check them out myself), the tournament gets to pocket 100% of everyone's entry fee...but then conveniently avoid paying any of the tournament costs on Sunday - the biggest of which is the referees. And while you're at it, you get to keep all the Gold and Silver medals you would've otherwise been handing out. Yes folks - the fix is in.
The only way to send a message is to vote with our feet. We've played in this tournament many years - never again. Good riddance. I sincerely hope this tournament folds. You deserve it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 10:58:49 GMT -5
Concorde and RYSA canceled today too. CFC Red Star is still playing so I guess they were south of the rain. Honestly if RYSA with their really good fields canceled it doesn't surprise me at all that Cobb fields are closed. Georgia Soccer Park used by Concorde is typically able to stay open in rain but that was closed too. I think this time of year is just a tough time weatherwise to hold a tournament.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Feb 22, 2015 10:59:58 GMT -5
Who hosts the tourney? Never heard of it until this year and a friend whose kid is at interatlanta told me they were doing it.
Better options were ssa last weekend and Concorde next weekend and this weekend.... Besides the canceling also today.
This weekend is jinxed.
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Post by Keeper on Feb 22, 2015 11:14:55 GMT -5
Our 9s were there at Hubert and were ready to win the top bracket today so we are a little bummed. But since its been a steady rain here in Kennesaw, where a few of us stayed overnight, it was expected. Icebreaker is run by the NW Cobb ymca and NASA. Overall it was a good experience and we will be back next year. Though next weekend at Concorde looks effy too. Just another reason to push for more turf fields. Let's raise taxes for soccer and not all these wasted baseball/softball fields...
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Post by spectator on Feb 22, 2015 12:03:52 GMT -5
Icebreaker Tournament is hosted by the YMCA not NASA (they use the same Cobb County Fields NASA uses so it's easy to assume NASA is part of it) and has dwindled in participation year over year for whatever reasons. I can see that tournament completely folding within the next few years if they don't make some big changes to the weekend they host and how they market the tournament. They use public fields so they really don't have any control over Tramore, Mudcreek, Hubert etc, since those are Cobb County fields and decisions to close them are made by the County not the tournament
Regarding fields - the city of Roswell used bond money a few years back to turf quite a few fields at Roswell Area park, East Roswell and Waller - why don't tournaments seek out to use those or does the city prohibit it? You've also got high school stadiums with turf - it'd be a great money maker for the schools in the area to put that out there for use.
HOWEVER - the bigger issue is why are there multiple tournaments on the same weekends every single year? It creates big problems for participation and for referee availability. There were four tournaments this weekend - Concorde Girls - typically the bigger draw for teams; RYSA, Icebreaker and CFC Red Star. RYSA and CFC are geographically further away than metro Atlanta so they could draw teams from neighboring states or South Georgia; why Icebreaker chooses to host the same weekend as Concorde is ridiculous - if for no other reason than Concorde seems to be jinxed due to the weather year after year after year ...
I wish there were more local tournament options in late March/early April - especially for older teams who are ending high school seasons at that time or need to prep for State Cup.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Feb 22, 2015 12:12:53 GMT -5
Will also add that 25 minute halfs at the u14 level isn't worth it. Too short.
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Post by sidelinemama on Feb 22, 2015 12:33:51 GMT -5
Will also add that 25 minute halfs at the u14 level isn't worth it. Too short. Yes. My daughter's team had a 2 hour practice yesterday that was very productive. Way more productive than had they gone and played 2 50 minute games. Glad we skipped this year. |
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Post by Keeper on Feb 22, 2015 13:16:08 GMT -5
Will also add that 25 minute halfs at the u14 level isn't worth it. Too short. Concorde did the same thing as well as gsa in December. |
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Post by Keeper on Feb 22, 2015 13:22:51 GMT -5
Icebreaker Tournament is hosted by the YMCA not NASA (they use the same Cobb County Fields NASA uses so it's easy to assume NASA is part of it) and has dwindled in participation year over year for whatever reasons. I can see that tournament completely folding within the next few years if they don't make some big changes to the weekend they host and how they market the tournament. They use public fields so they really don't have any control over Tramore, Mudcreek, Hubert etc, since those are Cobb County fields and decisions to close them are made by the County not the tournament Regarding fields - the city of Roswell used bond money a few years back to turf quite a few fields at Roswell Area park, East Roswell and Waller - why don't tournaments seek out to use those or does the city prohibit it? You've also got high school stadiums with turf - it'd be a great money maker for the schools in the area to put that out there for use. HOWEVER - the bigger issue is why are there multiple tournaments on the same weekends every single year? It creates big problems for participation and for referee availability. There were four tournaments this weekend - Concorde Girls - typically the bigger draw for teams; RYSA, Icebreaker and CFC Red Star. RYSA and CFC are geographically further away than metro Atlanta so they could draw teams from neighboring states or South Georgia; why Icebreaker chooses to host the same weekend as Concorde is ridiculous - if for no other reason than Concorde seems to be jinxed due to the weather year after year after year ... I wish there were more local tournament options in late March/early April - especially for older teams who are ending high school seasons at that time or need to prep for State Cup. I believe NASA has a little control over it because the waivers we signed were for NASA. Not MAYS YMCA. The biggest issue is fields in May. It would be nice to hold tournaments in March and April for the older age groups but where? all of those fields are used for the youth ages because supposedly no one can play Easter weekend, or both spring break weekends. |
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Post by spectator on Feb 22, 2015 13:37:01 GMT -5
I believe NASA has a little control over it because the waivers we signed were for NASA. Not MAYS YMCA. The biggest issue is fields in May. It would be nice to hold tournaments in March and April for the older age groups but where? all of those fields are used for the youth ages because supposedly no one can play Easter weekend, or both spring break weekends. Were you on NASA fields - Metro North? I think the waivers are specific to the fields you're on - as in you won't sue if your kid gets hurt? could be wrong but I do know IceBreaker is not a NASA tournament - they may have offered up fields. years ago at U9, there was a tournament in Peachtree City in March but that seems to have folded. There are tournament specific to Academy ages now - it'd be nice to see a tournament for U15 and up held at high school fields perhaps? There are some showcases out of town prior to State Cup now - GA just has all their tournaments on the same weekend it seems |
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Post by lovethegame on Feb 22, 2015 15:06:41 GMT -5
Over the years my child has played, I've seen some really good tournaments that aren't what they once were. I agree there are too many tournaments this weekend. But, I also think, that in general, there might just be too many tournaments. Tournaments that once had several brackets at each age are having trouble filling brackets. I would much rather see a competitive tournament with good fields than several small tournaments with uneven competition. and crappy fields But, that's in my perfect world.
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Post by Keeper on Feb 22, 2015 17:59:43 GMT -5
Were you on NASA fields - Metro North? I think the waivers are specific to the fields you're on - as in you won't sue if your kid gets hurt? could be wrong but I do know IceBreaker is not a NASA tournament - they may have offered up fields. years ago at U9, there was a tournament in Peachtree City in March but that seems to have folded. There are tournament specific to Academy ages now - it'd be nice to see a tournament for U15 and up held at high school fields perhaps? There are some showcases out of town prior to State Cup now - GA just has all their tournaments on the same weekend it seems We were at Hubert Park, but it was the same form our 13s signed that were at Mud Creek. |
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Post by youthsoccerdad on Feb 22, 2015 19:09:14 GMT -5
too many tournaments and reciprocal agreements. best tournament this spring so far has been LSA tournament, they were smart and scheduled beautiful weather.
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Post by soccerteamdad on Feb 22, 2015 20:26:07 GMT -5
Other than a money making event for the hosting team, what is the point of tournaments at young ages? Our young, lower-level team played one in the fall and is scheduled to play three in the spring. At approximately $75 per player per tournament, it's a huge expense. Is there some unwritten rule that teams will play in tournaments to support fundraising efforts at our own and other clubs? Why not just play regular-season games?
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Post by spectator on Feb 22, 2015 20:59:26 GMT -5
Other than a money making event for the hosting team, what is the point of tournaments at young ages? Our young, lower-level team played one in the fall and is scheduled to play three in the spring. At approximately $75 per player per tournament, it's a huge expense. Is there some unwritten rule that teams will play in tournaments to support fundraising efforts at our own and other clubs? Why not just play regular-season games? Reasons for tournaments for young teams: 1. Depending on the tournament, more/different competition. Especially if you are at at smaller club and the large clubs won't schedule Academy games with you during regular season; downside of this - local tournaments where you end up playing everyone you've already played or will play during the season (Atlanta Cup - I'm talking to you! LOL) 2. Rankings (not a fan of this but it happens). SIC rankings are mostly tied to tournament performance. I saw first hand some U10 parents in our club get all caught up in their rankings. Honestly until U12 prior to placements for Classic and Athena, it doesn't matter - and even then, it's not etched in stone. But some teams play boatloads of tournaments to get their rankings up For older teams, it's more about the showcase tournaments for college exposure but as I wished earlier, I'd like some kind of warm up period between high school ending and State Cup. But yeah - it's a moneymaker for the club. And you'd think basic economic principals would kick in and these clubs would stop scheduling their tournaments for the same weekends - more opportunity for more teams to participate if they're on different weekends = more revenue coming in! Especially for the smaller tournaments like Icebreaker - stupid to have it the same weekend as Concorde -which - say what you will about them and their weather jinxes - they do draw more out of state and higher level teams to that tournament every year. |
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Post by newposter on Feb 22, 2015 21:33:12 GMT -5
Unfortunately the clubs have a small window to host tournaments. That is why there are so many. Ga soccer games start the first weekend in March. Once they start weekends are full until Memorial Day. Now clubs should be cognizant of their customers and make the experience the best possible. This is regardless of the level of the teams that attend.
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Post by newposter on Feb 22, 2015 21:33:41 GMT -5
Other than a money making event for the hosting team, what is the point of tournaments at young ages? Our young, lower-level team played one in the fall and is scheduled to play three in the spring. At approximately $75 per player per tournament, it's a huge expense. Is there some unwritten rule that teams will play in tournaments to support fundraising efforts at our own and other clubs? Why not just play regular-season games? Reasons for tournaments for young teams: 1. Depending on the tournament, more/different competition. Especially if you are at at smaller club and the large clubs won't schedule Academy games with you during regular season; downside of this - local tournaments where you end up playing everyone you've already played or will play during the season (Atlanta Cup - I'm talking to you! LOL) 2. Rankings (not a fan of this but it happens). SIC rankings are mostly tied to tournament performance. I saw first hand some U10 parents in our club get all caught up in their rankings. Honestly until U12 prior to placements for Classic and Athena, it doesn't matter - and even then, it's not etched in stone. But some teams play boatloads of tournaments to get their rankings up For older teams, it's more about the showcase tournaments for college exposure but as I wished earlier, I'd like some kind of warm up period between high school ending and State Cup. But yeah - it's a moneymaker for the club. And you'd think basic economic principals would kick in and these clubs would stop scheduling their tournaments for the same weekends - more opportunity for more teams to participate if they're on different weekends = more revenue coming in! Especially for the smaller tournaments like Icebreaker - stupid to have it the same weekend as Concorde -which - say what you will about them and their weather jinxes - they do draw more out of state and higher level teams to that tournament every year. |
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Post by newposter on Feb 22, 2015 21:34:37 GMT -5
Other than a money making event for the hosting team, what is the point of tournaments at young ages? Our young, lower-level team played one in the fall and is scheduled to play three in the spring. At approximately $75 per player per tournament, it's a huge expense. Is there some unwritten rule that teams will play in tournaments to support fundraising efforts at our own and other clubs? Why not just play regular-season games? Reasons for tournaments for young teams: 1. Depending on the tournament, more/different competition. Especially if you are at at smaller club and the large clubs won't schedule Academy games with you during regular season; downside of this - local tournaments where you end up playing everyone you've already played or will play during the season (Atlanta Cup - I'm talking to you! LOL) 2. Rankings (not a fan of this but it happens). SIC rankings are mostly tied to tournament performance. I saw first hand some U10 parents in our club get all caught up in their rankings. Honestly until U12 prior to placements for Classic and Athena, it doesn't matter - and even then, it's not etched in stone. But some teams play boatloads of tournaments to get their rankings up For older teams, it's more about the showcase tournaments for college exposure but as I wished earlier, I'd like some kind of warm up period between high school ending and State Cup. But yeah - it's a moneymaker for the club. And you'd think basic economic principals would kick in and these clubs would stop scheduling their tournaments for the same weekends - more opportunity for more teams to participate if they're on different weekends = more revenue coming in! Especially for the smaller tournaments like Icebreaker - stupid to have it the same weekend as Concorde -which - say what you will about them and their weather jinxes - they do draw more out of state and higher level teams to that tournament every year. |
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Post by SoccerMom on Feb 23, 2015 7:50:16 GMT -5
too many tournaments and reciprocal agreements. best tournament this spring so far has been LSA tournament, they were smart and scheduled beautiful weather. if there was a way to schedule beautiful weather...I think Concorde would be all over that! lol  |
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Post by touchlinedad on Feb 23, 2015 9:13:58 GMT -5
I think most tournaments, especially pre-season, are largely a waste of time and just serve as a moneymaker for the clubs. I think most teams, especially at the Academy level, would be better served by playing some friendly games against other clubs during the preseason. There was a good column on Soccer America recently and one of the items mentioned was containing costs by reducing tournaments, especially travel tournaments. You can read the full column here: www.socceramerica.com/article/62412/tackling-key-challenges-in-modern-day-youth-ball.html |
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Post by soccerdad44 on Feb 23, 2015 9:27:50 GMT -5
Other than a money making event for the hosting team, what is the point of tournaments at young ages? Our young, lower-level team played one in the fall and is scheduled to play three in the spring. At approximately $75 per player per tournament, it's a huge expense. Is there some unwritten rule that teams will play in tournaments to support fundraising efforts at our own and other clubs? Why not just play regular-season games? I would take it more as a sign that you have a motivated coach and/or club more than they are trying to get more money out of your pocket. There is an aspect of profit to all of the "nonprofit" soccer clubs; however, I would just look at it as another opportunity to play and develop. The kids really like tournaments and the chance to win medals and trophies. And if your team only does only 1, there is a chance due to weather you will play 0 or <1. It is significant money and hard to swallow when you find out that you don't get any money back when the tournament is canceled, but fewer tournaments means less opportunity IMO. However, I definitely am hearing more from parents who do not want to go to these tournaments and resent mandatory fees. I guess this is something to consider when choosing a club and team: How many tournaments will the team go to? Will only the top team go to these tournaments? Are the tournament fees mandatory? How much is the coach per diem? Select a club/team that matches your preferences for tournaments. It would be great if every club clearly spells this out on their website. |
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Post by soccerdad44 on Feb 23, 2015 9:45:52 GMT -5
I think most tournaments, especially pre-season, are largely a waste of time and just serve as a moneymaker for the clubs. I think most teams, especially at the Academy level, would be better served by playing some friendly games against other clubs during the preseason. There was a good column on Soccer America recently and one of the items mentioned was containing costs by reducing tournaments, especially travel tournaments. You can read the full column here: www.socceramerica.com/article/62412/tackling-key-challenges-in-modern-day-youth-ball.htmlGood article. It would be nice to provide more lower cost alternatives to tournaments. Especially for the clubs where there is a big disparity between the top team and lower teams. It doesn't seem very fair that the top team goes to 3-4 tournaments per season and the other teams have nothing to do for 3-4 weeks until the season starts. I would definitely consider it a plus for any club that has free play times, combines, scrimmages. |
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Post by Soccerhouse on Feb 23, 2015 9:54:52 GMT -5
I highly recommend you develop a good relationship with your team manager. (or if you are the TM, you need to be the voice for your team and make sure you are all on the same page) Yes our club has mandated what tournaments we typically play in during the fall and spring, we have some flexibility but for the most part we attend the tourneys we are advised to, especially the out of town ones.
but that being said, there have been plenty of instances where we chose not to attend a local tournament. the parents collectively agreed it was unnecessary.
I personally don't mind the tournaments and enjoy heading out of town with the team. its fun for the parents and the kids.
would like to see more sat/sunday games and even some more friendlies where you might be playing 3 30 minutes halfs against 3 different teams.
unfortunately, often tournaments and sometimes out of town ones are the only time you get to play someone different.
at the end of the day "you" the parents are footing the bill for the tournaments, not the clubs, if you don't want to spend the money for a certain tournament than don't. but, that being said, you can't bail out on 5 of the 6 tournaments your supposed to play in during the entire year, that would just be bad and if this truly the case, the parents of that team should sit down with the appropriate club representative to find a happy solution.
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Post by allthingsoccer on Feb 23, 2015 11:30:38 GMT -5
All valid points so far... I have been to a least a hundred tournaments as a parent. GA, FL, OH, TX, SC, NC, TN etc.....
Tournaments are the main ways that the clubs can raise money to put back in development of the players. Most clubs don't own the fields so they really don't have too much say if a tournament gets canceled or not. I'm sure they have some influence but if the city wants to cancel them they have power to do so. So it's not all the clubs fault.
I love the tournaments. It provides a lot of benefits to the team and player development. As they get older, they will be put in high pressure situations (tournaments) and it's up to the individual to work through the pressure in this type of environment.
Tournaments are like little building blocks (foundations) that the player learns. They learn how to win, how to loose, how to handle themselves with others, how to handle pressure and tons of other little things in a higher pressure environment. This is "ALL" player development.
I think the mind set needs to change on tournaments... It's to develop your player. Yes, the clubs benefit but so does your player. Sure it sucks that that they do get canceled, however, as mentioned before...not a lot of time, nor space to host a tournament...and for sure here in metro Atlanta. You will see more and more options like the mentioned the beautiful Roswell turf parks, the super complex near Canton/Kennesaw.
I think more parents should volunteer and help their club during a tournament. Get an idea what it takes to help run of these things. Parents will be more appreciative to club, I think.
Many, many ways to help offset the cost of tournaments and coach expenses. Car washes, yankee candle, if a parent owns a business, have them donate a product/service and have the team sell it. So many ways to raise money.
What our team does is we have a "team" fundraiser (like a car wash) and the money raised goes toward the team. We also have individual fundraisers (like yankee candle) that the money they raise they get 75% as a credit and the other 25% goes to the team account. We had several parents that didnt pay a dime for tournaments. (only travel exp for themselves). You can also save on that was well. Get a bigger room and share with another family, get a hotel that has a full kitchen (save money on going out to eat).... So many ways.
Also, the parents don't have to go to a tournament. Let your child go with another parent (only if you feel comfortable). The cost is much lower for you. I know not all like to do this but it's also a building block for player development.
Cheers,
J4K
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Post by SoccerMom on Feb 23, 2015 13:40:13 GMT -5
I have to agree with the above post from j4k. while yes tournaments can get costly there are way to offset costs. We started doing fundraisers for our daughters team. All the proceeds go 100% towards the team funds. We havent paid for tournament fees, perdiems, coach hotels in the past year. We also have to travel for almost every game and we split costs with other families. We share gas & rooms.
And another thing, for my son who is only a u9..we have only done one pre and one post season tournament and all local. We dont have to travel at this young age.
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Post by soccerteamdad on Feb 23, 2015 16:48:33 GMT -5
What our team does is we have a "team" fundraiser (like a car wash) and the money raised goes toward the team. We also have individual fundraisers (like yankee candle) that the money they raise they get 75% as a credit and the other 25% goes to the team account. We had several parents that didnt pay a dime for tournaments. (only travel exp for themselves). You can also save on that was well. Get a bigger room and share with another family, get a hotel that has a full kitchen (save money on going out to eat).... So many ways. Also, the parents don't have to go to a tournament. Let your child go with another parent (only if you feel comfortable). The cost is much lower for you. I know not all like to do this but it's also a building block for player development. Great ideas. We only do local tournaments (thank goodness) so travel expenses aren't a factor. It's still really expensive -- about $75 per player to cover entrance fees and the coach's mileage and per diem. $225 per player, in addition to what I've already paid for my kid to be on a team is a lot, in my opinion. |
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Post by allthingsoccer on Feb 24, 2015 8:52:29 GMT -5
I would say that is pretty good in regards to tournament fees. (if that makes you feel any better)
My son plays on a top travel team and we do around 8/9 tournaments a year. 4 of them out of state. The costs are pretty high so you must do fundraisers (or find a sugar mama or daddy). If you do Wide World of Sports Disney you are dropping around $1000-$1500 per family alone.
Our family thinks of these as mini vacations. Its just been apart of our lives. Instead of a yearly vacation, we have 4 or 5 mini vacations.
The good thing is the local tournaments here in GA are some of the best teams in the Southeast so you don't have to travel too far to play a good team.
So don't get discouraged about the price. Fundraisers will offset your players fees. Make it a goal for yourself to raise the money. Get your child involved in the process. They learn great life lessons.
Cheers,
J4K
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Post by soccerteamdad on Feb 24, 2015 17:49:29 GMT -5
$1000 - $1500 per family -- That's a lot of candles!
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Post by SoccerMom on Feb 25, 2015 13:02:22 GMT -5
Theres many diff fundraisers you can do, not just candles lol. We raised almost $6000 last fall and need almost another 3k this spring to get us thru the end. We start our fundraising this week
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Post by sidelinemama on Feb 25, 2015 15:29:44 GMT -5
I think the key comment someone made, was find the club that is the right fit for you. There are teams that play just a pre and post season tournament. I think that is reasonable. If that's what you want, find a club that offers it. If you want more, find a club that does more. I don't think every top team plays a million tourneys, just as all mid level teams don't play just one. There are so many soccer options in the State of Ga that anyone should be able to find the right fit for their children.
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