|
Post by alacrity174 on Nov 21, 2018 15:23:49 GMT -5
The match officials (included the AR) inside the field of play, the goalpost, crossbar or corner flag post are considered part of the field of play. So if the ball hits a match official who is in the field of play, the play continues. Everything else I did not list is considered an "outside object." In your case for example, the tree branch is an outside object. If there is an outside object AND if this outside object causes interference with play, the referee should stop play as indicated in my post above. If it does not interfere with play, the referee should allow the game to continue (and when possible, remove the outside object from the field at some point). If the outside "object" is actually a person, it is actually considered an "outside agent" in the LOTG. In short, an outside agent is anyone not named on the team list as a player, substitute or team official. If the interference came from an outside agent, the restart is different than if it came from a team official, substitute, substituted or sent off player. In the outside agent case, the restart is a dropped ball and in the latter case the restart is a direct free kick or penalty kick. See also the exception to this LOTG provision in my post above. By the way, to answer your specific question on ball hitting tree branch and coming back in the field of play, it comes down to whether or not it interfered with play. If a team gained advantage and/or was prevented from playing the ball, then referee should stop the play and restart with a dropped ball. In any case, the referee can make a decision within the ‘spirit’ of the game on whether or not to stop the game for this (like letting play continue in a trifling foul, which though still an offense, has no significant impact upon play/game in the referee judgement). Sorry but I disagree with you, if the ball hits a tree branch that was overhanging the filed of play at the start of the match it is considered part of the field and play continues, here is no stoppage and drop ball.
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Nov 21, 2018 11:20:46 GMT -5
By the way, in another scenario discussed here (when the interference with play in the field of play is by a team official, substitute, substituted or sent off player), the referee must stop the play and restart with a direct free kick or penalty kick (disciplinary action is also issued, either red or yellow are possible scenarios). The only exception to the referee stopping the play is if the interference with play resulted in a goal against the offending team and the interference did not prevent a defending player playing the ball. In this case the goal is awarded (even if contact was made with the ball). FIFA Law 03 - The Players. Interesting interpretation. Ho would you deal with a ball going out of play that hits the AR before totally crossing the touchline? Or a tree branch overhanging the pitch and the ball hitting it and coming down inside the field not having crossed the line?
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Nov 20, 2018 9:57:14 GMT -5
Alacrity174 - I agree with your interpretation of the LOTG as written. In my opinion, the LOTG should be updated for these situations. I think the intent (first written over 100 years ago) was to handle natural obstacles (overhanging trees) and did not envision permanent obstructions caused by multi-use fields. Common sense would follow the HS rules. I know that's a lot to ask of FIFA... The various sub-organizations often put out rule modifications, this would be an easy one to add at the competition / local / state level. This could easily be addressed by USSF for DA and GA Soccer for local youth games, a lot of games are now played on multi use fields and this does come up a lot. I fully agree that an adoption of a similar ruling by NHSF would be the best option for games played on these types of venues. Unfortunately in this case the appropriate actions were not taken and correct rules not applied (At least from what is written here). The problem is now there is a precedent for coaches and parents to now beat up on refs who do apply the correct ruling and leads to yet more confusion.
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Nov 20, 2018 7:47:03 GMT -5
This type of scenario is covered in FIFA rules, what you are relating to is High School soccer which states if the ball hits the football crossbar it is out. In FIFA rules (DA playe modified FIFA so this is covered), the crossbar is there at the start of play and as such is part of the field. If the ball did hit the football crossbar and was not completely out of bounds then by the LoTG it never was out and the goal should stand. If the AR was arguing this point he was wrong. Where in the FIFA laws did you find this specification about pre-existing obstructions? Here is FIFA law 9 (ball in and out of play) in its entirety for 2018/2019: 1. Ball out of play The ball is out of play when: • it has wholly passed over the goal line or touchline on the ground or in the air • play has been stopped by the referee 2. Ball in play The ball is in play at all other times, including when it rebounds off a match official, goalpost, crossbar or corner flagpost and remains in the field of play i didn't see anything in the FIFA laws (https://img.fifa.com/image/upload/khhloe2xoigyna8juxw3.pdf) that correspond with your assertion. Not saying you're wrong, but I don't see evidence that you are correct. I did find this tidbit, though: "The integrity of the Laws, and the referees who apply them, must always be protected and respected. All those in authority, especially coaches and team captains, have a clear responsibility to the game to respect the match officials" and their decisions. I also have zero skin in this game, however the LoTG, from what has been written here have been misapplied. It is in your Law 9 above, Ball in and out of play. The whole of the ball had not crossed the whole of the line, the obstruction that caused this was part of the field and was such at the beginning of play. If the ball had struck the corner flag or an AR it is the same situation, if a tree limb hangs over the field and a ball hits it it is the same situation. As the ball never left the field of play it is live. NHSF has taken a different stance on this, probably because HS Soccer is played mainly on Football fields, and they stipulate that if the ball hits the football post and comes back then this is to be considered out. Under the USSF LoTG the goal should have counted and the AR was incorrect for this match. These points are covered in USSF Referee instruction and this exact question comes up each and every time.
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Nov 19, 2018 14:35:12 GMT -5
Sorry, I meant to say the football goal being there is a big deal. I completely agree with you on the fact that the results of this game don't mean a thing. I'm talking about in the overall scheme of things. So this time the refs got it right, what happens if the refs don't and it affects these same two teams next year when the results do count? Not sure what can be done since the football goal is more of a permanent structure but I see this being a potential issue in the future. I've seen this similar scenario played out in a high school game without all of the dramatic aftermath. I think there is only one person in this thread that thinks the ball can hit the goalpost or a moose and the goal should still count. It's an easy call to make. No worries. In High School this would be the correct call, but under modified FIFA LoTG this was the wrong call, it would be covered the same as an overhanging branch, if it is there at the beginning of the game, it is considered part of the field and unless the ball had completely crossed the line before hitting the football crossbar it never left the field of play and the goal should have counted.
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Nov 19, 2018 14:27:14 GMT -5
Video speaks for itself - refs made the right call and should be applauded. Actually refs made the wrong call under modified FIFA LoTG, high school is a different set of rules
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Nov 19, 2018 14:16:43 GMT -5
Quick rule check says it doesn't matter if it hit the football goal post - the ball was never out and there was no whistle. The goal post is directly over the crossbar and touch line so ball never would have gone out anyway. Doesn't matter if the ball hits the ref, a moose, or a UFO - if it doesn't go out, there is no whistle, and there are no written ground rules covering it, the ball remains in play. It's just like when that ball went off the ref's head then straight to the net. And by the way, every UFA parent at the game that I talked to right as it was happening said it did NOT hit the goal post but went off the crossbar, so SoccerMom is the ONLY person out of 300 plus, including all the players, that saw it like that AR watching from another county. Video not out yet; if and when it does come out that last play will certainly be cut; the result is a 1-1 draw on the ussoccerda website, not a 3-0 forfeit. What does that tell you? thisonedude, thanks for correcting me! The AU 2005 team will still be a freight train at U-15 and it looks like the difference in the substitution rules will only slightly impact them. However, it would seem to make the CF-UFA competition for players even more intense. This is an entertaining interpretation. I fully concur, not an interpretation it is covered under FIFA LoTG
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Nov 19, 2018 14:15:07 GMT -5
I don’t have a horse in this race, but I gotta say that the argument that the ball was still in play because the football crossbar, which is a couple feet above the goal, kept it in... That’s absurb. A quick check of the rules? The laws of the game don’t explicitly account for a football crossbar hanging above the actual crossbar. And for good reason. You can’t account for every possible weird field configuration. If a ball was headed out of bounds and a parent, coach, or player on the bench deflected it back in, would it remain in play? No. And keep in mind that this could be done without someone illegally entering the field of play because the ball has to entirely cross the line before it’s out. And yeah, ARs frequently make calls that the ref didn’t see, so the lack of an initial whistle doesn’t matter. That’s like saying an offside call can’t invalidate a goal if the ref missed the flag and doesn’t blow the whistle before the ball enters the net. I’ve seen a lot of games in fields like this, and every single time a ball hits the football goalposts it’s been called out. And for good reason. Clinging to an argument like this undermines your credibility. It either hit the football crossbar or it didn’t. If the ref missed it and the AR got it right, good. If the AR was mistaken, bummer. But at the end of the day, it’s still a little kids’ soccer game. People need to maintain perspective. Especially those in charge. This type of scenario is covered in FIFA rules, what you are relating to is High School soccer which states if the ball hits the football crossbar it is out. In FIFA rules (DA playe modified FIFA so this is covered), the crossbar is there at the start of play and as such is part of the field. If the ball did hit the football crossbar and was not completely out of bounds then by the LoTG it never was out and the goal should stand. If the AR was arguing this point he was wrong.
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Nov 19, 2018 14:11:22 GMT -5
Why was the goal called off? And its hard way for a club to learn a lesson thats for sure, but at the end of the day the results at u13/u14 only matter that week, then they are forgotten. But the bigger question is why is Concorde sending out one coach to a DA game - This is what frustrates me more than anything, DA is a club based venture, not a coach based one -- These teams should all have multiple coaches and input from multiple coaches on players and tactics. The goal was called off because it hit the footbal goal...so it was already out. And for the coach to get tossed, it had to been a few times him getting warned or have said something pretty bad to them. Btw....I heard that after the coach was sent off a kid showed up with a CF shirt, he wasnt on the roster so they sent him away. Then another guy showed up said he was going to coach, and when the refs asked him his name he also wasn't on the roster. The refs at this point got fed up and called the hotline and explained the situation. They were told by USSF to end the game by forfeit. Also, DA coaches do get tossed out, I have seen it. And then when the federation gets the report they will issue an additional suspension on that coach depending on the report. Yes, there should have been more than one DA CF coach there, wasn't the whole club playing that day? DA is played under modified FIFA rules, what you are quoting is High School rules. Under modified FIFA is the obstruction is there at the start of the game it is part of the game and even if the ball did hit the foolball goal as long as it wasn't outside the lines of the field then it never went out. If that is the rule applied by the officiating drew they were wrong, goal should have stood.
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Oct 15, 2018 16:09:47 GMT -5
Ive been involved in Youth soccer around Atlanta for over 16 years and coached 10 of those years. Yes, there are some players that are the very best skilled players on the field in whatever position you put them in. However, this is not the norm. The very best attacking players I've ever had were the laziest defenders I've ever seen and we kept them out of the back bc they dribble too much and lose the ball in the back, which is the worst possible scenario a coach can have. I was told this a long time ago. You have 11 players on the field and they all can't be warriors, you have to have a few magicians, jesters and expert archers. The warriors go in the back obviously. It wasn't too many state cups ago when I was watching a highly competitive game when the attacking mid kept losing the ball and not trying to win it back or defend up top when the CB and Holding mid screamed at him to start playing defense up front. The AM yelled back, I'm an attacking mid, I don't have to play defense. The coach did not utter a single word. If I could of only coached that AM for one day, he would of been sitting beside me on the bench getting the lecture of his lifetime and either accepting his clearly defined role or he would never see the field again as an AM for me. While I don't doubt your experience for a minute, the fact that you acknowledge that "there are some players that are the very best skilled players on the field in whatever position you put them in" supports my point. At the highest levels of soccer, my contention is that most of the players were of this type when they were kids.
Your point about warriors vs. magicians, jesters and expert archers is apt as well. While at the lower levels, you certainly have a mix, the higher the level that you consider, the larger percentage of warriors that you'll see on a team. By the time that you get to the very highest levels, all that you'll ever see are the warriors.
In my experience, most of these "warrior type" players tend to play in the midfield as youth players. Then when they move up in level they tend to get placed in other areas of the field where their skills are best utilized by the coach of the team for which they are playing.
How wuld you feel about having Josef Martinez and Barco play defense for ATL UTD? Supposedly among the most skillful on the team but would make terrible defenders. Personally I believe it is very short sighted to say all attacking players are more skillful than all defenders or even that this is the majority.
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Oct 15, 2018 15:58:19 GMT -5
What "damage" U9 & U12 are not competitive and the score is not kept anywher. The Coach should never exude overt pressure on a referee, especially a younger ref. This will and does then influence them on other decisions made during a game where they then look to the coach for further validation. I think you are taking this too seriously. The "damage" is the score differential. Whether or not the score is recorded is irrelevant to the children on the pitch. Believe it or not these children do keep score in their heads and losing 12-0 is demoralizing. My team happened to be on the winning side of both of these contests and the parents and the players of the winning side didn't care about the waving off of the PK. Why do you? And who said it was a young ref? The first game, which was 2 years ago BTW, had a ref in his 50's. The second game had a youngish ref. And there was no pressure by the coach. He just said "hey! We are good. Let them have a goal kick." You are being strangely oversensitive about this. Why? What is your point? Who are you trying to defend here? I thought it was a nice gesture by the coaches (two different guys) in these situations. You obviously don't, but I don't see why you are pushing the issue. No one was harmed by this. Not pushing or being "overly sensitive", the problem is when do you let a ref decide which of the LoTG to enforce and which to ignore? It isn't for a coach to decide either. In isolation seems fine, but in the next game young player does exactly the same and a penalty is the call, correct call as well but now young player is totally blindsided, parent are shouting "but in the lat game it was a goal kick" and ref is totally confused now as he/she made the right call. Everybody h their own opinion of refs but the biggest thing you will hear from any coach or player is consistency, this isn't consistent.
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Oct 3, 2018 13:23:25 GMT -5
Although from your perspective this might seem a good idea and "good sportsmanship", but how does that translate to the players learning how to play and add to the development of the young referee. If a PK is the right call then it should be adhered to. I don't think it affects referee development at all. The coach just explained to the ref that we are beating this team 12-0 (in one case at U12) and 12-2 (the other case at U9). Both cases involved inadvertent hand balls but with the arm in an unnatural position. The U12 kids it didn't affect the learning of those girls at all as they all knew exactly why we were waving off the PK due to an unfortunate bounce. For the U9's those kids are so confused anyway they don't even realize what the coach did. They are still at the point where they don't understand the difference between a goal kick and when the goalie picks up the ball and places it down inside the box to play it out so I am not sure the waving off of a PK registersnin their minds at all. If either case had been a blatant foul then your point might be valid and waving it off could just open up the game to more intentional fouling, but in these two cases the coaches were just trying to minimize the damage. What "damage" U9 & U12 are not competitive and the score is not kept anywher. The Coach should never exude overt pressure on a referee, especially a younger ref. This will and does then influence them on other decisions made during a game where they then look to the coach for further validation.
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Oct 3, 2018 12:17:08 GMT -5
I've said something similar like that in the past, but have never seen it implemented. We have been awarded a pk before that was bogus, and was hoping the coach would have instructed the player to do that. What made it worse, is it already was like a 4-0 game. At the younger age groups (u12 for one kid and U9 for the other) both of my kids had a coach that told the ref to give the team a goal kick after PK situations that were legitimate but when the score was too lopsided. It confuses the heck out of the ref but it is good sportsmanship. The other option of kicking it wide is also nice, but harder to get the player on board with and with young kids their attempt to kick wide might actually go into the corner due to poor accuracy. Either way I like the point which is that the kids are there to learn and play the game and have fun. I have a TON of respect for the coach that told his player that if they were going to win they were going to earn it, not win on a bogus PK. Kudos to that coach! Although from your perspective this might seem a good idea and "good sportsmanship", but how does that translate to the players learning how to play and add to the development of the young referee. If a PK is the right call then it should be adhered to.
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Oct 1, 2018 13:01:38 GMT -5
Are you a referee or Team Manager as you seem to have asked a question yet are providing answers.
The coach who was ejected should have left sight and sound of the game, but can come back after the final whistle as long as they don't try to engage with the ref again.
On the call I would say unless it was DOGSO by the keeper a yellow would have sufficed. All cards are "in the decision of the referee", according to FIFA LoTG.
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Aug 13, 2018 13:11:59 GMT -5
Wonder why your referee doesn't keep up with play and sometimes misses calls? Because they're probably exhausted. I signed up to referee a pre-season tournament this weekend. Won't name which one, because the issues are the same everywhere and every time I work a tournament. Guess how many games I was assigned? 11 over 2 days. That's 6 on Saturday and 5 on Sunday. In 80+ degree heat on turf, full field 11v11 games, back to back with no break. I'm pretty fit - did a sprint workout this morning that I picked up from my kid's high school pre-season work outs. But how effective do you think I'll be on games 5 and 6 on Saturday? Or the final on Sunday when it's my 5th game in a row? I'll do my best to give the players a fair game, but if you see me lagging play after 2 pm on Saturday, know I'm trying! This isn't about me. This is about all the referees busting it every weekend to give your kids the chance to play. So be nice, offer water, shade, and an encouraging word. And remember it's pre-season... Want to join us? Sign up for a class here: www.gareferees.com/index.cfm?wpid=24See you out there. The clues pretty much give it away as the SSA Summer Classic. It is a pretty huge tournament to begin with. My son referees mainly at his home SSA location. I think SSA (as most clubs) usually just use their homegrown and club players for their referees during the regular season. The problem on this tournament is that the Director's requirements of almost all the SSA select teams needing to play in this tournament from all locations. That is pretty much 80-90% of your referees right there playing in the tournament. None of those kids want to referee games between their games they are playing, so they have a lack of referees due to this in my opinion. I'm not saying there isn't a lack of referees, because there is, but in this case I think there are other issues going on. As far as parents and referees, yeah I've seen the problem, but my son is a very young referee, and he tends to ignore any snide comments from the peanut gallery. I attended pretty much all of his referee games last year in his first year refereeing, and I didn't hear too much bad stuff going on toward him or the referee crew. There will always be complaints from the coaches or an occasional snide remark for a bad call, but honestly if it doesn't go over that I think the referees need to hear that anyway especially if they made a bad call. It gives them self reflection to make sure they do their best. Now berating and screaming, etc.... is uncalled for, but a one off complaint by a coach or parent in a normal tone doesn't hurt anyone. Having been a referee in the Atlanta area for many years now I can say with certainty your sons experience is not the norm. I am going to take a stab in the dark and say your son is doing very young games which typically are easier and less confrontational. I would also like to know why you believe " There will always be complaints from the coaches or an occasional snide remark for a bad call, but honestly if it doesn't go over that I think the referees need to hear that anyway especially if they made a bad call" If you are not a qualified referee how can you say it was a bad call and why do you believe the referee "Needs to hear this"? On the shortage of referees it is a known FACT there is a shortage, you are more than welcome to take the course and join us, that would be 1 less, but somehow I don't think you would last long running 5 to 6 games a day Saturday and Sunday. No Coach allows his/her players to ref and play on the same day during a tournament and all assignors will pull in as many referees from the whole pool as they can and not just rely upon their normal group as they know there will be a number of players who can't ref during the weekend, you would be surprised the amount of emails every weekend referees get from all assignors asking for additional help. As Soccerloafer said it is not an easy way to make money as most parents seem to believe and most referees do the job as we love being part of the game, nobody is getting rich doing this and the abuse coming from the sidelines doesn't make it any easier.
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Jul 10, 2018 12:27:52 GMT -5
Always was a primadonna, everyone else warming up with conditioning coach and he is off doing his own thing. Talented player but horrible human being
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on May 8, 2018 13:49:42 GMT -5
Good catch with the u12 --- yikes, 11v11? And vestavia and busa will be sending their top boys teams to this league at all ages? They don't have boys ecnl right? BUSA has boys ECNL, Vestavia nope.
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Apr 12, 2018 13:08:53 GMT -5
By the way, as we continue to strive for the highest standards in GA soccer, I have to say that although the MB stadium is magnificent, the turf,pitch, field or the coloring whatever you want to call it does not match the facility and is very ugly looking compared to European standards. Someone tell AB we can do better. Thanks It does look bad on TV, but at the stadium it is fine, most of Europe don't use synthetic surfaces so not really any comparison .
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Apr 12, 2018 12:59:46 GMT -5
Can't wait for the draw tomorrow, would love to see a Roma v Liverpool final. From all the games think Munich should be the most worried about who they draw.
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Apr 6, 2018 13:38:47 GMT -5
Don't really have an opinion on this either way, but I feel like we need to point out the absurdity of any argument that involves "Well Messi did it, therefore anyone can" OK so if we don't use Messi, how about Giovinco or Josef Martinez or Jordi Alba or N'Golo Kante or Alexis Sanchez................. The point is there are plenty of "shorter/slighter" players who are out there outplaying the "Big Boys". It looks like US Soccer has found a solution to a problem which if you watch their own video is pretty much a coaching problem. If the coach could look past the biggest most physical player and was really a soccer coach with a soccer brain he/she would see the real better player, even if that player did seem to get manhandled off the ball some. As someone else mentioned how do the bigger more matured players develop well part of that should be on them to not rely on speed/size alone but they could easily play up and age group where they aren't the biggest kid, seems a very simple solution from here.
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Apr 6, 2018 13:20:39 GMT -5
Yes Messi was able to do it. Some will and some won't but let's talk about Zlatan. Some made the comments about his technical ability, his dribbling etc. If he was always huge would he have developed this? He said no in his book. This isn't only about the small ones getting a chance, but the big and fast ones being forces to develop technical and tactically skills. You are looking at it from one side only. Secondly, it is not for all of the time. The point of it is to do it some of the time. Occasional training sessions and matches. I see nothing wrong with this. I feel like it is a good adjunct, not the sole method of training. I have children that are on each end of this spectrum. One that is taller (though not super tall) and one that is smaller (though not super small). They both have trained with groups that are able to let them work on different skills. It is beneficial to focus on different skills than you are naturally suited. I wish I had played with bigger, faster kids when I was younger so I would have been forced to beat them with skills rather than speed and intimidation. A simple answer to the bigger kids is let them play/practice with the older groups, this way they get to see what its like not to be the biggest/fastest, learn better technical skills and then play meaningful games at their own age. This seems a much simpler answer than going through this whole rigmarole of height v Parents height and computer rubbish. How much time and money did US Soccer put into this when a far simpler solution was staring them right in the face?
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Apr 6, 2018 8:33:25 GMT -5
The biggest take away from this and the US Soccer video is that the coaches can't get past early physical maturity, it is nothing to do with the players. Better to educate the coaches than add another layer of bureaucracy to an already bloated system
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Apr 6, 2018 7:50:12 GMT -5
I think oraclesfriend is correct -- the idea of bio-banding is to make sure late developers who have technical ability don't get overlooked, and then also to challenge early developers to attain technique when playing against more physical opponents. But i'll discuss another point made by soccerfan30 -- namely that we're not behind the rest of the world in terms of athleticism. this fits a well worn canard in academy soccer circles - that our kids are the U12 Iniesta, passed over at ODP because other kids were flashy, strong and fast. I think there's a continued effort to recruit speed and strength because this is what the rest of the world is doing too, and maybe doing better. The French MNT, the Dutch WNT -- both are really athletic. Of course, there's technique too -- but there's a high bar of athleticism in those squads. There was a post about the Atl Und U17s against Flamengo a few weeks ago, with some discussion about who controlled the match. If you watched, it was clear that AU struggled with their flair and guile, but also with their pace and power in the air. Flamengo was more athletic. If you watched the Prospects' Cup late last year (international U12 tournament), you saw the same thing. The teams that dominated (Man City, Roma, Fluminense) had monsters on the field. They were tremendously skilled, but the pace and power was evident. US Soccer may be behind in many areas -- and identifying the best athletes to play may be just one more. So Messi as a small kid playing against bigger kids didn't have to learn how to deal with differing size opposition? As has been already mentioned this is rubbish science, maybe for American football it's fine because you want the big kids but for soccer this is mumbo jumbo. Better to let the smaller kids play with the bigger kids that's the way to get better not playing everyone who is the same as you. Once again US Soccer is stuck on athleticism and isn't paying attention to the mental side of the game, size and speed only get you so far, you need technical ability and a soccer brain more.
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Apr 3, 2018 7:26:04 GMT -5
I'm not one to complain about the referees, but has anyone else seen referees having even more difficulty with calling offsides? I've recently watched refs from Athena A and now this spring RPL season and surprised to see the refs still struggle with this. The main problem I've seen is is with a team that has a fast wing that properly anticipates a pass and beats their defender but the ref calls them offside despite them being onside at the time of the pass. For some reason, I believed there would be a higher quality of ref as you advance to different levels of competition but I haven't seen that. This is my pet peeve, how are you certain that the player is on/off side? The only way to be certain is if you are running the line with the AR, if you're not then you really are in no position to question the call. There is also the revised interpretation where refs are told to hold their call until a player becomes "Active" in the play and then the call is made at the spot the player became active. You are welcome to attend a Ref Certification course and come out on Sat and Sun and see how this pans out with the folding chair crowd
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Mar 16, 2018 10:19:32 GMT -5
I could care less about these club wars fighting over money. I just want the best thing for my son who wants to play on the highest level, can’t we just agree on what is the highest level and then maybe the the next one down? All these clubs weather they’re USSF DA, US club soccer or US youth soccer need to be ashamed for the amount of money they charge to play and travel forcing them to stay in the preferred hotel. This is what happens when $$$ gets into the picture. Well unfortunately that will never happen until there’s one entity running youth soccer. That won’t happen until after US Youth Soccer and Us Club fight it out. Us soccer should have never let clubs have it both ways. All I can say is the best players don’t always play on DA, ECNL, or RPL. The best players play Classic Two for a coach that they respect, and players they truly can call their friends. Those are the players that actually excel at the college level. That other 1% that might play professional, well they’ll get noticed if they’re truely that great no matter what level they play in. Parents need to stop being the drug addicts worried about levels and maybe these mega clubs will stop being the drug dealers. Sorry I was half with you until you said the best players play Cl2. Come on, in the competitive world of pay to play soccer we have now there may be 1 or 2 players in Cl2 who are good, but they aren't getting better there and they definitely aren't setting the world on fire. Back to the original point, there is NO club in the State of GA who is out for the kids, they are out there to make money, GA Soccer isn't above reproach as they have made it clear where their priorities lie and it is with the money makers. USYS and US Club are only in it for the cash and don't give 2 hoots about your kid or any club or team. The whole sordid mess is driven by the almighty dollar and we are not getting our return on this investment. The complete system needs to be revamped from top to bottom but that isn't going to happen as the ones feeding from the trough can't afford to lose.
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Mar 6, 2018 13:12:40 GMT -5
Just playing devils advocate, so it’s okay to foul in basketball to try and win but not in soccer? And yes I’m talking about about Middle/High school level not just NCAA or nba. Isn't a typical foul in Basketball basically a push but in the end not likely to cause any harm or injury. Soccer on the other hand if you are talking slide tackles and studs up etc can cause serious injury. Not a fan of players intentionally fouling just to foul, seems a strange thing for any coach to want to do.
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Feb 28, 2018 11:12:49 GMT -5
Lots of good points made. I'd like to add that Soccer is also the only sport not fully integrated with the high school. We've all heard the warnings about playing High School soccer and the dangers of getting hurt due to the lack of skilled players. Plus you have the professional teams working with the downline. In football, you play HS, where you get recruited for College, where you get drafted for the Pros. You are not allowed to play Pro football sooner than your Junior year I believe. You don't have that issue in soccer. In respect to most of the world, they also don't have the myriad of professional sports options we have. Most countries barely have a legitimate soccer league, other than in Europe where it is well established and well funded. We have Football, Baseball, Basketball, Hockey, Wrestling and even Lacrosse is making a push as of late. Could you just imagine pure athletes like OBJ and LeBron dedicating their lives to Soccer only? Not sure where you got your info that other than Europe no other country has a legitimate soccer league, just look south of the Rio Grande and you will see just about every country has a league. China's league is growing leaps and bounds and certain African countries have viable leagues. The other sports you named are really US only sports, nobody outside North America plays NFL Football or Baseball, Basketball is a small time hobby for most countries outside USA, Wrestling not even a sport in many countries and nobody has heard of LAX outside USA. So what we see is the US is dominant in these sports because nobody else plays which means NFL can use H/S and College as a development tool and then get a player at aged 21 or 22. If you tried this in Soccer this player is already 5 years behind the curve, look at the new 17 year old ATL UTD have brought in, he is a similar age to Andrew Carlton yet has already amassed much more experience and we look to Andrew and Chris Gosling as shining lights for the soccer scene. World soccer is a different animal than all other high school sports and as it is a Worldwide game to be successful the US will have to adapt our system to get our players some level of parity.
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Feb 27, 2018 15:09:41 GMT -5
So my daughter is on the third team - DA/SRPL/A - but they finished top of their bracket last fall. If all this comes to pass it sounds as if the SRPL team will play in the new league and there may be no promotion for the A team that fought hard all season to finish first. Is that correct? That is what it sounds like. I am not sure how the mega-clubs can say this is to much travel for our 2nd team and move them to the new league, then say it is okay for the 3rd team to play RPL. Thee is no promotion out of Ath A though, unless you win or place in State Cup. That hasn't changed.
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Jan 4, 2018 14:14:39 GMT -5
Hi. Happy Holidays! I've checked in on this forum every now and then but this is my first post. I've got three daughters who play and have been a soccer dad for going on 15 years . . . but this is about them refereeing. My eldest has played since she was 5 and has refereed since she was old enough to qualify. She knows the laws backwards and forwards, takes refereeing seriously, and does a good job, including by not laughing out loud at some of the fans' comments. And she likes it. She first got certified with about 15 other girls she knew. All of the other girls have quit over the years, with my daughter being the last to still referee. And now she is quitting because: a) it costs too much to be referee and b) the re-certification process has become more onerous than it used to be. I understand some people from GA Soccer may check these boards from time-to-time, so maybe this information will help, given the referee shortage. (She plays at NTH and found it very ironic that they had to forfeit a game this year because they could not supply a referee and the other team wasn't able to reschedule.) Or maybe it will make someone else lighten up on a referee! Here are the reasons she is quitting (with questions/suggestions from me in parentheticals): 1) It costs a minimum of $85 to get re-certified, depending on your grade. So she has to work roughly four games for free to make that up. (Has anyone ever considered passing that cost - to the extent it is even necessary - on to the clubs?) 2) She was told she had to buy a new referee set this year so everyone matches. (She refuses to shell out another $100 or whatever because someone wants all the referees' yellow stripes to be exactly the same width. Why are things being made harder when there is a shortage?) 3) The annual re-certification is a pain. She understands people need to be qualified, but to require both online retraining and a live refresher class every year eats up a whole weekend. And now there are less live classes which means possibly having to travel for that. (The full annual re-certification seems a bit much. How about just doing it on-line and require participation in the live class every couple of years? Heck, we don't need to take refresher classes to get a drivers license renewed. ) My middle daughter just got certified and will start refereeing this spring. I doubt it will last long unless some things change. Whilst I understand where your daughter is coming from regarding the recert courses and availability, this has definitely become more difficult this year. The other points seem more of an excuse not to ref. Point 1 about the cost, this isn't new and although it has increased each year it is pretty reasonable for a 12 month certification, so 4 games to cover the cost isn't in my opinion unreasonable. It is a professional certification and not unusual in the normal job market for people to pay this themselves. Point 2 about the new shirts, to be honest we as refs all knew this was coming last year so she could have purchased the new shirts over time during the last 12 months, there were plenty of mixed dressed crews last year when new refs bought the newer shirts and us older refs got the last bit of use out of our older kind. There are plenty of vendors online who are offering these shirts at a decent price. Point 3 On this one we will have to totally disagree, the LOTG change subtly each year and refs must be up to speed on the changes and application of the laws, also recert classes are a good time to get feedback on situations you found yourself in and alternative ways to deal with them. Being in a group setting and having an open discussion is a far better way of learning than sitting at a computer clicking through slides in my opinion, I wish clubs and/or GA Soccer would actually have Ref group meetings more often to encourage newer refs and share information so we can become better as a community and lessen the attrition especially of younger refs. Maybe there would be less accidents if we did have to take a recert driving test each year? Whatever I am sorry to see your daughter leave the world of reffing, hopefully she will reconsider, as you pointed out without the ref the game can't be played and it would be very unfortunate if she had another game forfeited due to no ref.
|
|
|
Post by alacrity174 on Nov 9, 2017 11:49:01 GMT -5
Quite honestly, I am not sure I would leave my current club for AU if they come calling. Not impressed with the coaching, my son currently gets tons of playing time and their turnover is too high. Maybe at u17 or u18. I don't think it would be wise at the younger ages due to turnover. I have to imagine if they have you for a year and you are cut, it would be a long hard road to get back if at all. Slightly alternative view. Coaching is outstanding for my son’s age group. Between top notch practices, and playing with skilled, fast and aggressive kids 4-5 days a week, the boy has improved more last 3 months than during any 3 month period prior. Whether he gets cut shortly or stays with program for years, he will come out a better player and an experience richer. Turnover is part of the model - they are looking to develop individuals/future pros - not teams. Naturally they will turn many players over they don’t see making it. "Turnover is part of the model - they are looking to develop individuals/future pros - not teams"
This is the part of your comment that has me shaking my head. Look at South American academies or European academies they have a low turnover because they are trying to Develop players. AU and the other DA programs cherry pick the best of the minute players and then seem to discard them at the end of the season instead of developing. If they were serious about development they would commit to a player long term.
|
|