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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 2, 2018 7:21:05 GMT -5
Looking at their remaining schedule, on paper they have 2 winnable games left - Kentucky and Bama.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Oct 2, 2018 7:54:08 GMT -5
Florida could be winnable too depending on which Gator team shows up...the one that can score or the one that can't.
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Post by zizou on Oct 2, 2018 9:41:28 GMT -5
Looking at their remaining schedule, on paper they have 2 winnable games left - Kentucky and Bama. I don't think I would characterize Alabama match as necessarily winnable. Alabama put 6 on Kennesaw (6-0 final), beat Rice 5-1, beat Virginia Tech 1-0, lost to Vandy 3-2. They also lost to Arkansas 1-0. I know the transitive property does not hold in soccer, but Alabama has also played every SEC team tough so far. Georgia had no hope against aTm and Vandy. Again, we will see how the Dawgs faire when the Cocks come to town on Thursday.
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Post by Soccer Dad on Oct 8, 2018 9:33:51 GMT -5
Tough weekend for the Dawgs, 0-2. They played ok versus USC and Auburn, but might just be the worst team in college soccer in the final third. Five straight SEC games without a goal. Ugh.
Now to pile on: As an example of poor coaching, against USC, it was obvious UGA was struggling to create great looks. They had a corner in the 2nd half with a real chance to tie up the game. They played the ball short on a play called from the bench. The girl had nowhere to go. She basically dribbled into two defenders, had the ball stolen, and end of the opportunity. This is just one example of how unbelievably bad the coaching has been this year. They keep doing the same things....and getting the same results....over and over again. Ugh.
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Post by Soccer Dad on Oct 16, 2018 9:31:48 GMT -5
I was hoping someone else would post from last week's "win" versus TN. Yes, a 0-0 tie when you are outshot 24-4 is a win. Take the point and move on.
Now it comes down to the final three matches, UF, Bama, and UK. They have to win two to make the SEC Tourney (and I think for the coaches to even have a chance of staying). All are winnable, IF YOU CAN SCORE! The dawgs are five games straight without a goal. But it is actually worse than that. During those five games, they haven't really had many shots on goal. It is not good. Let's see what happens, starting Thursday night in Gainesville.
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Post by zizou on Oct 16, 2018 9:43:32 GMT -5
We went to the Tennessee match. That was women against girls and TN did not have Bunny Shaw who was with Jamaica National Team. I know UGA got a point, which is the best they could have hoped for, but I found the performance disheartening. TN did everything but put the ball in the net. Some comical misses. I am trying to remember what I though were actual dangerous chances from UGA and am having a hard time recollecting such instances. There was a huge difference in overall quality between those two sides. TN had at least 5 players that were better than any single UGA player. After seeing a number of SEC matches this year, I have come to the conclusion that it is not just game management and strategy; UGA are just not getting players with sufficient quality to compete at a high level in this league.
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Post by atlfutboldad on Oct 16, 2018 19:04:18 GMT -5
Not trying to hurt any family feelings and I dont know if they're freshmen, but #8 and #18 for uga did not look the part. I saw plenty of skilled/talented players for uga, but some who werent as good were questionably starting over some of them.
UT's #22 is diminutive but a beast at the defensive mid spot. UT should have won by 3.
Eh, if BL keeps his job it'll only be for be one more year IMO. Things were better in the Holeman years for them for sure.
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Post by soccerloafer on Oct 17, 2018 9:00:13 GMT -5
UGA is not getting the top recruits out of the local clubs. Good players and good kids, yes. Great players, not really. Those are going elsewhere.
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Post by soccerfan30 on Oct 17, 2018 10:49:19 GMT -5
I know a number of DA and ECNL players and UGA isn't even on their radar.
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Post by paterfamilias on Oct 17, 2018 12:00:58 GMT -5
It makes wonder if perhaps Brian Moore is more of a liability than an asset for recruiting. I know he did a lot of good to great things with his teams when he was a club coach in the metro area, but I wonder if he alienated many other coaches that would have steered players to UGA otherwise.
Obviously if that were the case the time line is moving further and further away, but it would have been crucial for the first couple of recruiting classes.
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Post by zizou on Oct 18, 2018 7:48:41 GMT -5
I know a number of DA and ECNL players and UGA isn't even on their radar. You know, I was considering the possibility that maybe the players in Georgia are just not that great. Maybe they seem good to us because of fondness for our own players (I mean "own" in the parochial sense of them all being close to and most like all of us; we think we must be awesome - let's forget about what happened to UFA GDA teams when they went to Texas recently). So how can this be quantified at the next level? I decided to look at the number of players from Georgia who played in the Women's D1 College Cup Final 4 over the past three years. We can go farther back in time but I think the outcome would be about the same. This is a diverse set of teams, with only one (Duke) appearing more than once. The teams are: 2017 - Stanford, South Carolina, Duke, UCLA 2016 - Georgetown, Southern California, North Carolina, West Virginia 2015 - Florida State, Duke, Penn State, Rutgers These teams, except Florida State and South Carolina, are not what one would call local, and Florida State likes International players quite a bit (although they did have a high impact player on their team from GA) and South Carolina likes players from South Carolina and Georgia. Maybe Duke and North Carolina are also kind of local. Anyway, as it turns out, if I can read rosters and count effectively, 14 different players from Georgia were on these teams. That is a nontrivial number. Imagine if UGA got just half of them. As an aside, BL came from Duke so maybe someone would say that proves he was a good choice because he came from a winning program. Let me just point out that Duke getting to the College Cup 2 out of 3 years happened after he was gone.
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Post by olderthandirt on Oct 18, 2018 9:07:54 GMT -5
I know a number of DA and ECNL players and UGA isn't even on their radar. You know, I was considering the possibility that maybe the players in Georgia are just not that great. Maybe they seem good to us because of fondness for our own players (I mean "own" in the parochial sense of them all being close to and most like all of us; we think we must be awesome - let's forget about what happened to UFA GDA teams when they went to Texas recently). So how can this be quantified at the next level? I decided to look at the number of players from Georgia who played in the Women's D1 College Cup Final 4 over the past three years. We can go farther back in time but I think the outcome would be about the same. This is a diverse set of teams, with only one (Duke) appearing more than once. The teams are: 2017 - Stanford, South Carolina, Duke, UCLA 2016 - Georgetown, Southern California, North Carolina, West Virginia 2015 - Florida State, Duke, Penn State, Rutgers These teams, except Florida State and South Carolina, are not what one would call local, and Florida State likes International players quite a bit (although they did have a high impact player on their team from GA) and South Carolina likes players from South Carolina and Georgia. Maybe Duke and North Carolina are also kind of local. Anyway, as it turns out, if I can read rosters and count effectively, 14 different players from Georgia were on these teams. That is a nontrivial number. Imagine if UGA got just half of them. As an aside, BL came from Duke so maybe someone would say that proves he was a good choice because he came from a winning program. Let me just point out that Duke getting to the College Cup 2 out of 3 years happened after he was gone. Based only off of the girls that I know well who went on to play Div I college soccer, I'd suggest another possible issue. Most of the girls from my admittedly small sample just didn't want to attend UGA. Most would admit that it is a fine school, but almost to a girl, they wanted to go to school and play where most of their high school friends didn't (or couldn't) attend. Most of the girls attended out-of-state schools, although many of them attended schools in the Southeast - Vandy, Tenn, Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Wake, etc. A few of them went much farther away (which made it pretty difficult for their parents to attend very many games). I know only one personally who attended and played at UGA.
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Post by zizou on Oct 18, 2018 10:27:01 GMT -5
Based only off of the girls that I know well who went on to play Div I college soccer, I'd suggest another possible issue. Most of the girls from my admittedly small sample just didn't want to attend UGA. Most would admit that it is a fine school, but almost to a girl, they wanted to go to school and play where most of their high school friends didn't (or couldn't) attend. Most of the girls attended out-of-state schools, although many of them attended schools in the Southeast - Vandy, Tenn, Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Wake, etc. A few of them went much farther away (which made it pretty difficult for their parents to attend very many games). I know only one personally who attended and played at UGA. Yes, we have this exact same issue with one of the players in our family right now. She either wants to be close but not too close or pretty far away. Boils down to forging her own path, not going to the typical school of the other players from her club. But I would suspect for the top Georgia players this would be less of a concern if UGA was making it to the College Cup every year. Or even the Final 16, or maybe even the NCAA tournament, or, heck, maybe even the SEC tournament. Or maybe just being competitive. Players from around UNC, Duke, Southern California, UCLA, South Carolina, Penn State, Clemson, Florida etc. are not turning down scholarship offers because they live in the neighborhood. But when you have a failing program, even at a good academic institution, players are not going to do it. At D1 schools the athletic experience is too much of their investment in college to dismiss the success of the program as a huge decision-making factor. Depending on your desired program of study you can get very similar academic experiences lots of places.
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Post by olderthandirt on Oct 18, 2018 11:33:54 GMT -5
Based only off of the girls that I know well who went on to play Div I college soccer, I'd suggest another possible issue. Most of the girls from my admittedly small sample just didn't want to attend UGA. Most would admit that it is a fine school, but almost to a girl, they wanted to go to school and play where most of their high school friends didn't (or couldn't) attend. Most of the girls attended out-of-state schools, although many of them attended schools in the Southeast - Vandy, Tenn, Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Wake, etc. A few of them went much farther away (which made it pretty difficult for their parents to attend very many games). I know only one personally who attended and played at UGA. Yes, we have this exact same issue with one of the players in our family right now. She either wants to be close but not too close or pretty far away. Boils down to forging her own path, not going to the typical school of the other players from her club. But I would suspect for the top Georgia players this would be less of a concern if UGA was making it to the College Cup every year. Or even the Final 16, or maybe even the NCAA tournament, or, heck, maybe even the SEC tournament. Or maybe just being competitive. Players from around UNC, Duke, Southern California, UCLA, South Carolina, Penn State, Clemson, Florida etc. are not turning down scholarship offers because they live in the neighborhood. But when you have a failing program, even at a good academic institution, players are not going to do it. At D1 schools the athletic experience is too much of their investment in college to dismiss the success of the program as a huge decision-making factor. Depending on your desired program of study you can get very similar academic experiences lots of places. First of all, good luck to your daughter on her decision of where to go to school
After that, as I have followed this topic, it seems to me that many of the posters agree that the Hope Scholarship program ought to help persuade Georgia players to play for the University of Georgia. That said, it now occurs to me that the Hope may in some ways be a detriment in recruiting Georgia players. If the offer from the Georgia coaching staff is basically the same scholarship offer that 50 or 100 or more students from the player's high school are getting, is it really an attractive offer to the player?
I know that the Hope Scholarship was greatly appreciated in my household when one of my children received and kept the scholarship for four years, but I doubt that my child really felt very special in getting the scholarship. Lots of others got it as well, so how much of a big deal was it really (besides the $ of course)?
I don't know. I certainly can't claim to know what goes on inside the head of 18-year-old girls. You've got a daughter that approximate age. Does this idea make any sense, or is it just the result of being ollllld and out of touch?
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Post by soccerloafer on Oct 18, 2018 12:36:07 GMT -5
"Most would admit that it is a fine school, but almost to a girl, they wanted to go to school and play where most of their high school friends didn't (or couldn't) attend."
This was one of the reasons my daughter gave for not going to UGA - didn't want to relive high school. Instead she chose a better academic school with no soccer program. She was not a D-I playing candidate (that's tough to say but honest!), but had opportunities at smaller / lower schools she turned down to focus on academics.
That said, it would only take one or two solid recruiting classes and some modest success to make UGA a much more attractive destination for top tier in-state players. Probably start with a new coach...
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Post by olderthandirt on Oct 18, 2018 13:35:08 GMT -5
That said, it would only take one or two solid recruiting classes and some modest success to make UGA a much more attractive destination for top tier in-state players. Probably start with a new coach... Maybe, maybe not.
I did a small amount of research into the season records at UGA. Over the past 23 years (prior to this season), UGA had 16 winning seasons, 1 .500 season, and 6 losing seasons including the last three. Certainly, a couple of seasons with winning records and SEC Championship Tournament play would be an improvement, but I don't know that it would make that much of a difference in the overall quality of players that could be successfully recruited. From 1995 through 2014, UGA generally was competitive and never had non-winning seasons two years in a row. That said, I don't recall Georgia being considered a destination for lots of local recruits.
I know the old saying that success breeds success, but I'm beginning to think that there's more to it than just not a competitive program.
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Post by rifle on Oct 18, 2018 20:53:54 GMT -5
Does the fact that [quite a few, certainly not all] club soccer players don’t have the burden of worrying how much college costs... lead a lot of them to go out of state rather than stay “home”? Why stay home when you can afford to go anywhere? My point being that soccer is a sport for the wealthy.
Maybe UGA staff don’t recruit very well. Maybe they haven’t a clue what a good player looks like.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Oct 18, 2018 20:54:25 GMT -5
Well they lost and are currently sitting in second to last place. On the broadcast the commentators were saying that most of the players getting time are freshman and sophomores...I think the team will benefit from that down the road.
As for the comments about players wanting to play out of state and get some experience away from home, I am all for that and find that refreshing. Too many kids today stay near home or AT HOME while going to college and I find that worrisome. College kids need to spread their wings and get some independence. I am happy to hear the youth girls soccer players in Georgia are moving away and gaining valuable life experiences!
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Post by oraclesfriend on Oct 18, 2018 20:56:50 GMT -5
Does the fact that [quite a few, certainly not all] club soccer players don’t have the burden of worrying how much college costs... lead a lot of them to go out of state rather than stay “home”? Why stay home when you can afford to go anywhere? My point being that soccer is a sport for the wealthy. Maybe UGA staff don’t recruit very well. Maybe they haven’t a clue what a good player looks like. There is a big difference between being able to afford $10,000 per year to play club soccer at the ECNL/DA level and affording $70,000+ per year for college!! Wealth is relative and most soccer parents I know can't send their kids to Duke without a scholarship!
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Post by zizou on Oct 18, 2018 21:17:05 GMT -5
Well they lost and are currently sitting in second to last place. On the broadcast the commentators were saying that most of the players getting time are freshman and sophomores...I think the team will benefit from that down the road. As for the comments about players wanting to play out of state and get some experience away from home, I am all for that and find that refreshing. Too many kids today stay near home or AT HOME while going to college and I find that worrisome. College kids need to spread their wings and get some independence. I am happy to hear the youth girls soccer players in Georgia are moving away and gaining valuable life experiences! South Carolina have 1 senior, 7 juniors, and the rest are Sophomores and Freshmen. I don't see that affecting their competitiveness. BL has been using the "we are young" excuse for 3 years. The whole UGA program is just not good enough. And no amount of playing time is going to make a player that can't compete in the SEC somehow magically able to compete. I did a whole evaluation of UGA recruiting from Holeman through these current coaches some time ago. rifle is closest to the truth. The current coaches either don't know what an SEC calibre player looks like when they see them play club soccer or they do know and can't get them to come to UGA. Both things are bad. Either way, they are not getting enough such players. They did get an awesome keeper, thank the Soccer Gods. And they do have a few good players. When Holeman was coach, i might not have always been happy with the way they played, but I never felt like they could not, as a team, compete athletically and technically. Right now, UGA cannot compete athletically and technically in the SEC week in and week out.
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Post by soccerfan30 on Oct 18, 2018 22:28:36 GMT -5
I know this is controversial but I think if Georgia Tech started a women's program, hired a strong coach and financially backed the program I think they would be able to surpass UGA within 10 years and attract better talent.
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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 19, 2018 8:39:35 GMT -5
man -- totally spaced and missed the Gator vs Dawgs game.
Stick a fork in the dawgs they are done -- 1-5-2 in conference play - they won't even make the SEC tourney.
Florida while they got the win, is probably on the outside looking in for the NCAA tourney, they will need to make a run in the SEC tourney
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Post by Soccerhouse on Oct 19, 2018 8:40:54 GMT -5
I know this is controversial but I think if Georgia Tech started a women's program, hired a strong coach and financially backed the program I think they would be able to surpass UGA within 10 years and attract better talent. I don't even think it would take 10 years, I'd say in year 2! Its actually shocking that with title 9 GA tech doesn't have a women's team
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Post by soccerloafer on Oct 19, 2018 8:53:51 GMT -5
I know this is controversial but I think if Georgia Tech started a women's program, hired a strong coach and financially backed the program I think they would be able to surpass UGA within 10 years and attract better talent. Agree 100%. Shocking they don't have a program. They are working hard to attract women to campus, this would be a draw. I've been saying this for years... This would attract the kids who want a better academic / smaller social environment than UGA.
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Post by soccerfan30 on Oct 19, 2018 9:36:01 GMT -5
UGA is a good school but academically not as strong as Stanford, Vandy, Duke, etc. I think they have good enough players that for whatever reason are performing up to their capabilities. I know RG and KB from their time at TH, I worked with MB in high school, you don't set the high school career goal scoring record and be the SE region ECNL top scorer without some level of ability and she can't get on the field which is puzzling.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Oct 19, 2018 10:07:29 GMT -5
UGA is a good school but academically not as strong as Stanford, Vandy, Duke, etc. I think they have good enough players that for whatever reason aren't performing up to their capabilities. I know RG and KB from their time at TH, I worked with MB in high school, you don't set the high school career goal scoring record and be the SE region ECNL top scorer without some level of ability and she can't get on the field which is puzzling. I think you have a typo and meant to say AREN'T performing up to their capabilities??? They do have some good players (and I agree that the keeper looks very strong so far). RG was recruited by plenty of schools and committed to Florida originally. She looks good and got honorable mention as Topdrawer soccer team of the week a few weeks ago. I think it is coaching more than recruiting, but that is just me. I disagree with Zizou that if they aren't SEC material when they get there that they won't ever be. That implies that you stop developing when you graduate from high school. This isn't true. You can get better at any age (even an old person like myself). Now if they are too slow maybe there is a limit on how much faster they might be able to run, ok THAT may be true. I think a great coach could make that team into a NCAA tournament team. BTW I am completely NOT a UGA fan so I am happy for them to flounder, so this is not a biased view.
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Post by soccerfan30 on Oct 19, 2018 10:15:32 GMT -5
UGA is a good school but academically not as strong as Stanford, Vandy, Duke, etc. I think they have good enough players that for whatever reason aren't performing up to their capabilities. I know RG and KB from their time at TH, I worked with MB in high school, you don't set the high school career goal scoring record and be the SE region ECNL top scorer without some level of ability and she can't get on the field which is puzzling. I think you have a typo and meant to say AREN'T performing up to their capabilities??? They do have some good players (and I agree that the keeper looks very strong so far). RG was recruited by plenty of schools and committed to Florida originally. She looks good and got honorable mention as Topdrawer soccer team of the week a few weeks ago. I think it is coaching more than recruiting, but that is just me. I disagree with Zizou that if they aren't SEC material when they get there that they won't ever be. That implies that you stop developing when you graduate from high school. This isn't true. You can get better at any age (even an old person like myself). Now if they are too slow maybe there is a limit on how much faster they might be able to run, ok THAT may be true. I think a great coach could make that team into a NCAA tournament team. BTW I am completely NOT a UGA fan so I am happy for them to flounder, so this is not a biased view. Correct- typo on my part which I fixed. I agree 100% that the current roster can be competitive, I think it's a coaching issue.
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Post by zizou on Oct 19, 2018 10:28:59 GMT -5
UGA is a good school but academically not as strong as Stanford, Vandy, Duke, etc. I think they have good enough players that for whatever reason aren't performing up to their capabilities. I know RG and KB from their time at TH, I worked with MB in high school, you don't set the high school career goal scoring record and be the SE region ECNL top scorer without some level of ability and she can't get on the field which is puzzling. I disagree with Zizou that if they aren't SEC material when they get there that they won't ever be. That implies that you stop developing when you graduate from high school. This isn't true. You can get better at any age (even an old person like myself). Now if they are too slow maybe there is a limit on how much faster they might be able to run, ok THAT may be true. I think a great coach could make that team into a NCAA tournament team. BTW I am completely NOT a UGA fan so I am happy for them to flounder, so this is not a biased view. Perhaps I was not clear. I agree that people get better with practice. But my contention is that for many of these players no amount of practice is going to make them SEC quality. If you watch them play and think they can become SEC quality with sufficient exposure then that is where we disagree.
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Post by oraclesfriend on Oct 19, 2018 10:54:23 GMT -5
I disagree with Zizou that if they aren't SEC material when they get there that they won't ever be. That implies that you stop developing when you graduate from high school. This isn't true. You can get better at any age (even an old person like myself). Now if they are too slow maybe there is a limit on how much faster they might be able to run, ok THAT may be true. I think a great coach could make that team into a NCAA tournament team. BTW I am completely NOT a UGA fan so I am happy for them to flounder, so this is not a biased view. Perhaps I was not clear. I agree that people get better with practice. But my contention is that for many of these players no amount of practice is going to make them SEC quality. If you watch them play and think they can become SEC quality with sufficient exposure then that is where we disagree. Sufficient exposure, motivation and desire to work on their own, and good coaching that fits the style of the athlete...yes. Not everyone, but many of them. I have seen too many people make huge jumps in their quality under the right conditions and sufficient motivation and effort to believe that it isn't possible. As an aside, I do have to say that the overall recruiting process of women's soccer (and other sports) may contribute to not having the player they thought they had. When you recruit as freshman and sophomores sometimes things change. As players get older some plateau and some improve. You may not always get at 18-22 years old what you thought you saw at 15-16.
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Post by olderthandirt on Oct 19, 2018 11:24:55 GMT -5
Perhaps I was not clear. I agree that people get better with practice. But my contention is that for many of these players no amount of practice is going to make them SEC quality. If you watch them play and think they can become SEC quality with sufficient exposure then that is where we disagree. Sufficient exposure, motivation and desire to work on their own, and good coaching that fits the style of the athlete...yes. Not everyone, but many of them. I have seen too many people make huge jumps in their quality under the right conditions and sufficient motivation and effort to believe that it isn't possible. As an aside, I do have to say that the overall recruiting process of women's soccer (and other sports) may contribute to not having the player they thought they had. When you recruit as freshman and sophomores sometimes things change. As players get older some plateau and some improve. You may not always get at 18-22 years old what you thought you saw at 15-16. I agree wholeheartedly with the section that I put in bold above. Let's use Brian Moore as the example here. I've known Brian for many years and watched several of his youth teams excel. I give him a lot of the credit for the success of these teams. That said, it took a certain type of player to respond to Brian's coaching. He yelled, screamed, was sarcastic, and generally refused to accept any lack of effort or concentration from his players at any moment. Those players that could not respond to this style of coaching were either dropped from the team at the next tryouts or left the team on their own.
I know several (now) young women who left Brian's teams because of his coaching. They were "good enough" to be on the teams, but they just couldn't stand playing for him.
I don't know how he coaches at UGA. If he coaches in the same manner that he did with his most successful teams at the youth level, I expect that there are players who just won't respond.
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